RFI - CO2 systems
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RFI - CO2 systems
On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:11:38 GMT, "Richard Harris" <SHARRIS11nospam@san.rr.com>
wrote:
<snip>
>Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure than
>air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.
The safety margin for CO2 vs a scuba tank isn't so much in the strength margin
of the bottle but in how the energy is released if there is an accident. A
3,000 psi scuba tank is going to release its energy all at once, think shrapnel,
think bomb. :-( If a CO2 bottle is punctured in an accident the liquid CO2 will
change immediately to a solid (dry ice) and gradually evaporate. That said I
wouldn't want to be anywhere near either bottle in an accident.
>I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to put
>it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears by
>it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
>seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever.
CO2 will run air tools just fine. In fact I can't tell a bit of difference
between the CO2 and my shop compressor, except cost. A full 5 lb CO2 bottle
will fill about 20 33x12.5 tires.
>He does have a special
>regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it depressurizes.
All compressed gas cools as it expands, so all regulators that I know of are
designed with that in mind. When I fill my tires the regulator and first 6
inches of the hose will get covered in frost. I live in a place that considers
20% humidity to be muggy so I don't know how it would behave in a place with
real humidity. <g>
>The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
>trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale. Weigh
>the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
>somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
>bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
>Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail. This
>method works.
You are absolutely correct. The problem is that the places that fill CO2 don't
charge by the pound, but by the fill. So it costs the same to fill an empty
bottle as one that is only partially empty. I can be a cheap SOB and I hate not
getting everything I paid for. <g>
One other problem that isn't talked about much is where do you get the bottle
refilled? If it is close to home it is no big deal, but if you live in a small
town they might have to send it out to be filled. I found this out the hard way
when after a couple of day of wheeling in Moab my bottle went dry. No, biggie I
thought. There is a welding supply right on the main street of town. Well,
they couldn't fill it for me because they send everything to a bigger town to be
filled, and it would take a couple of days.
Like I said before CO2 is the best gas for this application. You can build one
yourself for around $150 - $180 in an afternoon. They are simple and basically
fool proof. They can easily be moved from vehicle to vehicle. BUT if you plan
to keep your Jeep for a long time the belt driven compressor will pay for itself
over the long haul.
Regards,
Dean
wrote:
<snip>
>Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure than
>air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.
The safety margin for CO2 vs a scuba tank isn't so much in the strength margin
of the bottle but in how the energy is released if there is an accident. A
3,000 psi scuba tank is going to release its energy all at once, think shrapnel,
think bomb. :-( If a CO2 bottle is punctured in an accident the liquid CO2 will
change immediately to a solid (dry ice) and gradually evaporate. That said I
wouldn't want to be anywhere near either bottle in an accident.
>I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to put
>it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears by
>it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
>seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever.
CO2 will run air tools just fine. In fact I can't tell a bit of difference
between the CO2 and my shop compressor, except cost. A full 5 lb CO2 bottle
will fill about 20 33x12.5 tires.
>He does have a special
>regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it depressurizes.
All compressed gas cools as it expands, so all regulators that I know of are
designed with that in mind. When I fill my tires the regulator and first 6
inches of the hose will get covered in frost. I live in a place that considers
20% humidity to be muggy so I don't know how it would behave in a place with
real humidity. <g>
>The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
>trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale. Weigh
>the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
>somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
>bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
>Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail. This
>method works.
You are absolutely correct. The problem is that the places that fill CO2 don't
charge by the pound, but by the fill. So it costs the same to fill an empty
bottle as one that is only partially empty. I can be a cheap SOB and I hate not
getting everything I paid for. <g>
One other problem that isn't talked about much is where do you get the bottle
refilled? If it is close to home it is no big deal, but if you live in a small
town they might have to send it out to be filled. I found this out the hard way
when after a couple of day of wheeling in Moab my bottle went dry. No, biggie I
thought. There is a welding supply right on the main street of town. Well,
they couldn't fill it for me because they send everything to a bigger town to be
filled, and it would take a couple of days.
Like I said before CO2 is the best gas for this application. You can build one
yourself for around $150 - $180 in an afternoon. They are simple and basically
fool proof. They can easily be moved from vehicle to vehicle. BUT if you plan
to keep your Jeep for a long time the belt driven compressor will pay for itself
over the long haul.
Regards,
Dean
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RFI - CO2 systems
jasonp wrote:
> Why not use a SCUBA setup?
This guy does:
http://www.4wd.com/mudmag/jotm.asp
He says:
"Instead of buying 'onboard air' (since I am a SCUBA diver too) I used
my regulator and tanks and found some air fittings at Home Depot to
connect a curly hose to the tank and use it to air up. I found I can do
it almost 5 times with one 72 or 80 tank (I have both). The added cost
for it was about 25 bucks"
He can only air up his 31x10.50s 5 times on a tank wheres a 10lb CO2
tank would do it at least 25 times. Then again, the air refills cost
less. For someone who's already got the gear and a dive card, looks like
a decent low buck alternative.
A pair of aluminum 80s pretty much live in the back of my vehicle
anyway. I might try it on my next remote shore dive - just gotta
remember to surface early and save few hundred extra PSI for the tires.
Steve
> Why not use a SCUBA setup?
This guy does:
http://www.4wd.com/mudmag/jotm.asp
He says:
"Instead of buying 'onboard air' (since I am a SCUBA diver too) I used
my regulator and tanks and found some air fittings at Home Depot to
connect a curly hose to the tank and use it to air up. I found I can do
it almost 5 times with one 72 or 80 tank (I have both). The added cost
for it was about 25 bucks"
He can only air up his 31x10.50s 5 times on a tank wheres a 10lb CO2
tank would do it at least 25 times. Then again, the air refills cost
less. For someone who's already got the gear and a dive card, looks like
a decent low buck alternative.
A pair of aluminum 80s pretty much live in the back of my vehicle
anyway. I might try it on my next remote shore dive - just gotta
remember to surface early and save few hundred extra PSI for the tires.
Steve
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RFI - CO2 systems
jasonp wrote:
> Why not use a SCUBA setup?
This guy does:
http://www.4wd.com/mudmag/jotm.asp
He says:
"Instead of buying 'onboard air' (since I am a SCUBA diver too) I used
my regulator and tanks and found some air fittings at Home Depot to
connect a curly hose to the tank and use it to air up. I found I can do
it almost 5 times with one 72 or 80 tank (I have both). The added cost
for it was about 25 bucks"
He can only air up his 31x10.50s 5 times on a tank wheres a 10lb CO2
tank would do it at least 25 times. Then again, the air refills cost
less. For someone who's already got the gear and a dive card, looks like
a decent low buck alternative.
A pair of aluminum 80s pretty much live in the back of my vehicle
anyway. I might try it on my next remote shore dive - just gotta
remember to surface early and save few hundred extra PSI for the tires.
Steve
> Why not use a SCUBA setup?
This guy does:
http://www.4wd.com/mudmag/jotm.asp
He says:
"Instead of buying 'onboard air' (since I am a SCUBA diver too) I used
my regulator and tanks and found some air fittings at Home Depot to
connect a curly hose to the tank and use it to air up. I found I can do
it almost 5 times with one 72 or 80 tank (I have both). The added cost
for it was about 25 bucks"
He can only air up his 31x10.50s 5 times on a tank wheres a 10lb CO2
tank would do it at least 25 times. Then again, the air refills cost
less. For someone who's already got the gear and a dive card, looks like
a decent low buck alternative.
A pair of aluminum 80s pretty much live in the back of my vehicle
anyway. I might try it on my next remote shore dive - just gotta
remember to surface early and save few hundred extra PSI for the tires.
Steve
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RFI - CO2 systems
jasonp wrote:
> Why not use a SCUBA setup?
This guy does:
http://www.4wd.com/mudmag/jotm.asp
He says:
"Instead of buying 'onboard air' (since I am a SCUBA diver too) I used
my regulator and tanks and found some air fittings at Home Depot to
connect a curly hose to the tank and use it to air up. I found I can do
it almost 5 times with one 72 or 80 tank (I have both). The added cost
for it was about 25 bucks"
He can only air up his 31x10.50s 5 times on a tank wheres a 10lb CO2
tank would do it at least 25 times. Then again, the air refills cost
less. For someone who's already got the gear and a dive card, looks like
a decent low buck alternative.
A pair of aluminum 80s pretty much live in the back of my vehicle
anyway. I might try it on my next remote shore dive - just gotta
remember to surface early and save few hundred extra PSI for the tires.
Steve
> Why not use a SCUBA setup?
This guy does:
http://www.4wd.com/mudmag/jotm.asp
He says:
"Instead of buying 'onboard air' (since I am a SCUBA diver too) I used
my regulator and tanks and found some air fittings at Home Depot to
connect a curly hose to the tank and use it to air up. I found I can do
it almost 5 times with one 72 or 80 tank (I have both). The added cost
for it was about 25 bucks"
He can only air up his 31x10.50s 5 times on a tank wheres a 10lb CO2
tank would do it at least 25 times. Then again, the air refills cost
less. For someone who's already got the gear and a dive card, looks like
a decent low buck alternative.
A pair of aluminum 80s pretty much live in the back of my vehicle
anyway. I might try it on my next remote shore dive - just gotta
remember to surface early and save few hundred extra PSI for the tires.
Steve
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RFI - CO2 systems
jasonp wrote:
> Why not use a SCUBA setup?
This guy does:
http://www.4wd.com/mudmag/jotm.asp
He says:
"Instead of buying 'onboard air' (since I am a SCUBA diver too) I used
my regulator and tanks and found some air fittings at Home Depot to
connect a curly hose to the tank and use it to air up. I found I can do
it almost 5 times with one 72 or 80 tank (I have both). The added cost
for it was about 25 bucks"
He can only air up his 31x10.50s 5 times on a tank wheres a 10lb CO2
tank would do it at least 25 times. Then again, the air refills cost
less. For someone who's already got the gear and a dive card, looks like
a decent low buck alternative.
A pair of aluminum 80s pretty much live in the back of my vehicle
anyway. I might try it on my next remote shore dive - just gotta
remember to surface early and save few hundred extra PSI for the tires.
Steve
> Why not use a SCUBA setup?
This guy does:
http://www.4wd.com/mudmag/jotm.asp
He says:
"Instead of buying 'onboard air' (since I am a SCUBA diver too) I used
my regulator and tanks and found some air fittings at Home Depot to
connect a curly hose to the tank and use it to air up. I found I can do
it almost 5 times with one 72 or 80 tank (I have both). The added cost
for it was about 25 bucks"
He can only air up his 31x10.50s 5 times on a tank wheres a 10lb CO2
tank would do it at least 25 times. Then again, the air refills cost
less. For someone who's already got the gear and a dive card, looks like
a decent low buck alternative.
A pair of aluminum 80s pretty much live in the back of my vehicle
anyway. I might try it on my next remote shore dive - just gotta
remember to surface early and save few hundred extra PSI for the tires.
Steve
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RFI - CO2 systems
Scuba tanks are designed with a burst disk that will go long before a tank
would explode. As long as that burst disk is funcioning (it wouldn't hold
air if it wasn't) there is virtually no chance of the tank exploding. I know
of one person that removed the burst disk in a tank to over fill it, he paid
for it with his life, tank exploded and blew him in half (he was standing
right in front of the compressor).
Also, while the tank will hold 3000PSI, it certainly doesn't have to be
filled to capacity. How many tires could you fill with an 80 cubic foot
tank?
"Dean" <do.not.email.me@post.it.to.the.group.com> wrote in message
news:g28390tsi8ai2hmbjniqp08g7e7u0sa5d5@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:11:38 GMT, "Richard Harris"
<SHARRIS11nospam@san.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure
than
> >air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.
>
> The safety margin for CO2 vs a scuba tank isn't so much in the strength
margin
> of the bottle but in how the energy is released if there is an accident.
A
> 3,000 psi scuba tank is going to release its energy all at once, think
shrapnel,
> think bomb. :-( If a CO2 bottle is punctured in an accident the liquid
CO2 will
> change immediately to a solid (dry ice) and gradually evaporate. That
said I
> wouldn't want to be anywhere near either bottle in an accident.
>
> >I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to
put
> >it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears
by
> >it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
> >seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever.
>
> CO2 will run air tools just fine. In fact I can't tell a bit of difference
> between the CO2 and my shop compressor, except cost. A full 5 lb CO2
bottle
> will fill about 20 33x12.5 tires.
>
> >He does have a special
> >regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it
depressurizes.
>
> All compressed gas cools as it expands, so all regulators that I know of
are
> designed with that in mind. When I fill my tires the regulator and first
6
> inches of the hose will get covered in frost. I live in a place that
considers
> 20% humidity to be muggy so I don't know how it would behave in a place
with
> real humidity. <g>
>
> >The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
> >trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale.
Weigh
> >the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
> >somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
> >bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
> >Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail.
This
> >method works.
>
> You are absolutely correct. The problem is that the places that fill CO2
don't
> charge by the pound, but by the fill. So it costs the same to fill an
empty
> bottle as one that is only partially empty. I can be a cheap SOB and I
hate not
> getting everything I paid for. <g>
>
> One other problem that isn't talked about much is where do you get the
bottle
> refilled? If it is close to home it is no big deal, but if you live in a
small
> town they might have to send it out to be filled. I found this out the
hard way
> when after a couple of day of wheeling in Moab my bottle went dry. No,
biggie I
> thought. There is a welding supply right on the main street of town.
Well,
> they couldn't fill it for me because they send everything to a bigger town
to be
> filled, and it would take a couple of days.
>
> Like I said before CO2 is the best gas for this application. You can
build one
> yourself for around $150 - $180 in an afternoon. They are simple and
basically
> fool proof. They can easily be moved from vehicle to vehicle. BUT if you
plan
> to keep your Jeep for a long time the belt driven compressor will pay for
itself
> over the long haul.
>
> Regards,
> Dean
would explode. As long as that burst disk is funcioning (it wouldn't hold
air if it wasn't) there is virtually no chance of the tank exploding. I know
of one person that removed the burst disk in a tank to over fill it, he paid
for it with his life, tank exploded and blew him in half (he was standing
right in front of the compressor).
Also, while the tank will hold 3000PSI, it certainly doesn't have to be
filled to capacity. How many tires could you fill with an 80 cubic foot
tank?
"Dean" <do.not.email.me@post.it.to.the.group.com> wrote in message
news:g28390tsi8ai2hmbjniqp08g7e7u0sa5d5@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:11:38 GMT, "Richard Harris"
<SHARRIS11nospam@san.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure
than
> >air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.
>
> The safety margin for CO2 vs a scuba tank isn't so much in the strength
margin
> of the bottle but in how the energy is released if there is an accident.
A
> 3,000 psi scuba tank is going to release its energy all at once, think
shrapnel,
> think bomb. :-( If a CO2 bottle is punctured in an accident the liquid
CO2 will
> change immediately to a solid (dry ice) and gradually evaporate. That
said I
> wouldn't want to be anywhere near either bottle in an accident.
>
> >I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to
put
> >it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears
by
> >it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
> >seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever.
>
> CO2 will run air tools just fine. In fact I can't tell a bit of difference
> between the CO2 and my shop compressor, except cost. A full 5 lb CO2
bottle
> will fill about 20 33x12.5 tires.
>
> >He does have a special
> >regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it
depressurizes.
>
> All compressed gas cools as it expands, so all regulators that I know of
are
> designed with that in mind. When I fill my tires the regulator and first
6
> inches of the hose will get covered in frost. I live in a place that
considers
> 20% humidity to be muggy so I don't know how it would behave in a place
with
> real humidity. <g>
>
> >The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
> >trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale.
Weigh
> >the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
> >somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
> >bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
> >Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail.
This
> >method works.
>
> You are absolutely correct. The problem is that the places that fill CO2
don't
> charge by the pound, but by the fill. So it costs the same to fill an
empty
> bottle as one that is only partially empty. I can be a cheap SOB and I
hate not
> getting everything I paid for. <g>
>
> One other problem that isn't talked about much is where do you get the
bottle
> refilled? If it is close to home it is no big deal, but if you live in a
small
> town they might have to send it out to be filled. I found this out the
hard way
> when after a couple of day of wheeling in Moab my bottle went dry. No,
biggie I
> thought. There is a welding supply right on the main street of town.
Well,
> they couldn't fill it for me because they send everything to a bigger town
to be
> filled, and it would take a couple of days.
>
> Like I said before CO2 is the best gas for this application. You can
build one
> yourself for around $150 - $180 in an afternoon. They are simple and
basically
> fool proof. They can easily be moved from vehicle to vehicle. BUT if you
plan
> to keep your Jeep for a long time the belt driven compressor will pay for
itself
> over the long haul.
>
> Regards,
> Dean
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RFI - CO2 systems
Scuba tanks are designed with a burst disk that will go long before a tank
would explode. As long as that burst disk is funcioning (it wouldn't hold
air if it wasn't) there is virtually no chance of the tank exploding. I know
of one person that removed the burst disk in a tank to over fill it, he paid
for it with his life, tank exploded and blew him in half (he was standing
right in front of the compressor).
Also, while the tank will hold 3000PSI, it certainly doesn't have to be
filled to capacity. How many tires could you fill with an 80 cubic foot
tank?
"Dean" <do.not.email.me@post.it.to.the.group.com> wrote in message
news:g28390tsi8ai2hmbjniqp08g7e7u0sa5d5@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:11:38 GMT, "Richard Harris"
<SHARRIS11nospam@san.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure
than
> >air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.
>
> The safety margin for CO2 vs a scuba tank isn't so much in the strength
margin
> of the bottle but in how the energy is released if there is an accident.
A
> 3,000 psi scuba tank is going to release its energy all at once, think
shrapnel,
> think bomb. :-( If a CO2 bottle is punctured in an accident the liquid
CO2 will
> change immediately to a solid (dry ice) and gradually evaporate. That
said I
> wouldn't want to be anywhere near either bottle in an accident.
>
> >I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to
put
> >it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears
by
> >it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
> >seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever.
>
> CO2 will run air tools just fine. In fact I can't tell a bit of difference
> between the CO2 and my shop compressor, except cost. A full 5 lb CO2
bottle
> will fill about 20 33x12.5 tires.
>
> >He does have a special
> >regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it
depressurizes.
>
> All compressed gas cools as it expands, so all regulators that I know of
are
> designed with that in mind. When I fill my tires the regulator and first
6
> inches of the hose will get covered in frost. I live in a place that
considers
> 20% humidity to be muggy so I don't know how it would behave in a place
with
> real humidity. <g>
>
> >The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
> >trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale.
Weigh
> >the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
> >somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
> >bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
> >Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail.
This
> >method works.
>
> You are absolutely correct. The problem is that the places that fill CO2
don't
> charge by the pound, but by the fill. So it costs the same to fill an
empty
> bottle as one that is only partially empty. I can be a cheap SOB and I
hate not
> getting everything I paid for. <g>
>
> One other problem that isn't talked about much is where do you get the
bottle
> refilled? If it is close to home it is no big deal, but if you live in a
small
> town they might have to send it out to be filled. I found this out the
hard way
> when after a couple of day of wheeling in Moab my bottle went dry. No,
biggie I
> thought. There is a welding supply right on the main street of town.
Well,
> they couldn't fill it for me because they send everything to a bigger town
to be
> filled, and it would take a couple of days.
>
> Like I said before CO2 is the best gas for this application. You can
build one
> yourself for around $150 - $180 in an afternoon. They are simple and
basically
> fool proof. They can easily be moved from vehicle to vehicle. BUT if you
plan
> to keep your Jeep for a long time the belt driven compressor will pay for
itself
> over the long haul.
>
> Regards,
> Dean
would explode. As long as that burst disk is funcioning (it wouldn't hold
air if it wasn't) there is virtually no chance of the tank exploding. I know
of one person that removed the burst disk in a tank to over fill it, he paid
for it with his life, tank exploded and blew him in half (he was standing
right in front of the compressor).
Also, while the tank will hold 3000PSI, it certainly doesn't have to be
filled to capacity. How many tires could you fill with an 80 cubic foot
tank?
"Dean" <do.not.email.me@post.it.to.the.group.com> wrote in message
news:g28390tsi8ai2hmbjniqp08g7e7u0sa5d5@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:11:38 GMT, "Richard Harris"
<SHARRIS11nospam@san.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure
than
> >air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.
>
> The safety margin for CO2 vs a scuba tank isn't so much in the strength
margin
> of the bottle but in how the energy is released if there is an accident.
A
> 3,000 psi scuba tank is going to release its energy all at once, think
shrapnel,
> think bomb. :-( If a CO2 bottle is punctured in an accident the liquid
CO2 will
> change immediately to a solid (dry ice) and gradually evaporate. That
said I
> wouldn't want to be anywhere near either bottle in an accident.
>
> >I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to
put
> >it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears
by
> >it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
> >seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever.
>
> CO2 will run air tools just fine. In fact I can't tell a bit of difference
> between the CO2 and my shop compressor, except cost. A full 5 lb CO2
bottle
> will fill about 20 33x12.5 tires.
>
> >He does have a special
> >regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it
depressurizes.
>
> All compressed gas cools as it expands, so all regulators that I know of
are
> designed with that in mind. When I fill my tires the regulator and first
6
> inches of the hose will get covered in frost. I live in a place that
considers
> 20% humidity to be muggy so I don't know how it would behave in a place
with
> real humidity. <g>
>
> >The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
> >trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale.
Weigh
> >the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
> >somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
> >bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
> >Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail.
This
> >method works.
>
> You are absolutely correct. The problem is that the places that fill CO2
don't
> charge by the pound, but by the fill. So it costs the same to fill an
empty
> bottle as one that is only partially empty. I can be a cheap SOB and I
hate not
> getting everything I paid for. <g>
>
> One other problem that isn't talked about much is where do you get the
bottle
> refilled? If it is close to home it is no big deal, but if you live in a
small
> town they might have to send it out to be filled. I found this out the
hard way
> when after a couple of day of wheeling in Moab my bottle went dry. No,
biggie I
> thought. There is a welding supply right on the main street of town.
Well,
> they couldn't fill it for me because they send everything to a bigger town
to be
> filled, and it would take a couple of days.
>
> Like I said before CO2 is the best gas for this application. You can
build one
> yourself for around $150 - $180 in an afternoon. They are simple and
basically
> fool proof. They can easily be moved from vehicle to vehicle. BUT if you
plan
> to keep your Jeep for a long time the belt driven compressor will pay for
itself
> over the long haul.
>
> Regards,
> Dean
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RFI - CO2 systems
Scuba tanks are designed with a burst disk that will go long before a tank
would explode. As long as that burst disk is funcioning (it wouldn't hold
air if it wasn't) there is virtually no chance of the tank exploding. I know
of one person that removed the burst disk in a tank to over fill it, he paid
for it with his life, tank exploded and blew him in half (he was standing
right in front of the compressor).
Also, while the tank will hold 3000PSI, it certainly doesn't have to be
filled to capacity. How many tires could you fill with an 80 cubic foot
tank?
"Dean" <do.not.email.me@post.it.to.the.group.com> wrote in message
news:g28390tsi8ai2hmbjniqp08g7e7u0sa5d5@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:11:38 GMT, "Richard Harris"
<SHARRIS11nospam@san.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure
than
> >air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.
>
> The safety margin for CO2 vs a scuba tank isn't so much in the strength
margin
> of the bottle but in how the energy is released if there is an accident.
A
> 3,000 psi scuba tank is going to release its energy all at once, think
shrapnel,
> think bomb. :-( If a CO2 bottle is punctured in an accident the liquid
CO2 will
> change immediately to a solid (dry ice) and gradually evaporate. That
said I
> wouldn't want to be anywhere near either bottle in an accident.
>
> >I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to
put
> >it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears
by
> >it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
> >seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever.
>
> CO2 will run air tools just fine. In fact I can't tell a bit of difference
> between the CO2 and my shop compressor, except cost. A full 5 lb CO2
bottle
> will fill about 20 33x12.5 tires.
>
> >He does have a special
> >regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it
depressurizes.
>
> All compressed gas cools as it expands, so all regulators that I know of
are
> designed with that in mind. When I fill my tires the regulator and first
6
> inches of the hose will get covered in frost. I live in a place that
considers
> 20% humidity to be muggy so I don't know how it would behave in a place
with
> real humidity. <g>
>
> >The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
> >trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale.
Weigh
> >the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
> >somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
> >bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
> >Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail.
This
> >method works.
>
> You are absolutely correct. The problem is that the places that fill CO2
don't
> charge by the pound, but by the fill. So it costs the same to fill an
empty
> bottle as one that is only partially empty. I can be a cheap SOB and I
hate not
> getting everything I paid for. <g>
>
> One other problem that isn't talked about much is where do you get the
bottle
> refilled? If it is close to home it is no big deal, but if you live in a
small
> town they might have to send it out to be filled. I found this out the
hard way
> when after a couple of day of wheeling in Moab my bottle went dry. No,
biggie I
> thought. There is a welding supply right on the main street of town.
Well,
> they couldn't fill it for me because they send everything to a bigger town
to be
> filled, and it would take a couple of days.
>
> Like I said before CO2 is the best gas for this application. You can
build one
> yourself for around $150 - $180 in an afternoon. They are simple and
basically
> fool proof. They can easily be moved from vehicle to vehicle. BUT if you
plan
> to keep your Jeep for a long time the belt driven compressor will pay for
itself
> over the long haul.
>
> Regards,
> Dean
would explode. As long as that burst disk is funcioning (it wouldn't hold
air if it wasn't) there is virtually no chance of the tank exploding. I know
of one person that removed the burst disk in a tank to over fill it, he paid
for it with his life, tank exploded and blew him in half (he was standing
right in front of the compressor).
Also, while the tank will hold 3000PSI, it certainly doesn't have to be
filled to capacity. How many tires could you fill with an 80 cubic foot
tank?
"Dean" <do.not.email.me@post.it.to.the.group.com> wrote in message
news:g28390tsi8ai2hmbjniqp08g7e7u0sa5d5@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:11:38 GMT, "Richard Harris"
<SHARRIS11nospam@san.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure
than
> >air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.
>
> The safety margin for CO2 vs a scuba tank isn't so much in the strength
margin
> of the bottle but in how the energy is released if there is an accident.
A
> 3,000 psi scuba tank is going to release its energy all at once, think
shrapnel,
> think bomb. :-( If a CO2 bottle is punctured in an accident the liquid
CO2 will
> change immediately to a solid (dry ice) and gradually evaporate. That
said I
> wouldn't want to be anywhere near either bottle in an accident.
>
> >I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to
put
> >it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears
by
> >it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
> >seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever.
>
> CO2 will run air tools just fine. In fact I can't tell a bit of difference
> between the CO2 and my shop compressor, except cost. A full 5 lb CO2
bottle
> will fill about 20 33x12.5 tires.
>
> >He does have a special
> >regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it
depressurizes.
>
> All compressed gas cools as it expands, so all regulators that I know of
are
> designed with that in mind. When I fill my tires the regulator and first
6
> inches of the hose will get covered in frost. I live in a place that
considers
> 20% humidity to be muggy so I don't know how it would behave in a place
with
> real humidity. <g>
>
> >The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
> >trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale.
Weigh
> >the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
> >somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
> >bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
> >Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail.
This
> >method works.
>
> You are absolutely correct. The problem is that the places that fill CO2
don't
> charge by the pound, but by the fill. So it costs the same to fill an
empty
> bottle as one that is only partially empty. I can be a cheap SOB and I
hate not
> getting everything I paid for. <g>
>
> One other problem that isn't talked about much is where do you get the
bottle
> refilled? If it is close to home it is no big deal, but if you live in a
small
> town they might have to send it out to be filled. I found this out the
hard way
> when after a couple of day of wheeling in Moab my bottle went dry. No,
biggie I
> thought. There is a welding supply right on the main street of town.
Well,
> they couldn't fill it for me because they send everything to a bigger town
to be
> filled, and it would take a couple of days.
>
> Like I said before CO2 is the best gas for this application. You can
build one
> yourself for around $150 - $180 in an afternoon. They are simple and
basically
> fool proof. They can easily be moved from vehicle to vehicle. BUT if you
plan
> to keep your Jeep for a long time the belt driven compressor will pay for
itself
> over the long haul.
>
> Regards,
> Dean
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RFI - CO2 systems
Scuba tanks are designed with a burst disk that will go long before a tank
would explode. As long as that burst disk is funcioning (it wouldn't hold
air if it wasn't) there is virtually no chance of the tank exploding. I know
of one person that removed the burst disk in a tank to over fill it, he paid
for it with his life, tank exploded and blew him in half (he was standing
right in front of the compressor).
Also, while the tank will hold 3000PSI, it certainly doesn't have to be
filled to capacity. How many tires could you fill with an 80 cubic foot
tank?
"Dean" <do.not.email.me@post.it.to.the.group.com> wrote in message
news:g28390tsi8ai2hmbjniqp08g7e7u0sa5d5@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:11:38 GMT, "Richard Harris"
<SHARRIS11nospam@san.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure
than
> >air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.
>
> The safety margin for CO2 vs a scuba tank isn't so much in the strength
margin
> of the bottle but in how the energy is released if there is an accident.
A
> 3,000 psi scuba tank is going to release its energy all at once, think
shrapnel,
> think bomb. :-( If a CO2 bottle is punctured in an accident the liquid
CO2 will
> change immediately to a solid (dry ice) and gradually evaporate. That
said I
> wouldn't want to be anywhere near either bottle in an accident.
>
> >I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to
put
> >it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears
by
> >it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
> >seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever.
>
> CO2 will run air tools just fine. In fact I can't tell a bit of difference
> between the CO2 and my shop compressor, except cost. A full 5 lb CO2
bottle
> will fill about 20 33x12.5 tires.
>
> >He does have a special
> >regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it
depressurizes.
>
> All compressed gas cools as it expands, so all regulators that I know of
are
> designed with that in mind. When I fill my tires the regulator and first
6
> inches of the hose will get covered in frost. I live in a place that
considers
> 20% humidity to be muggy so I don't know how it would behave in a place
with
> real humidity. <g>
>
> >The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
> >trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale.
Weigh
> >the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
> >somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
> >bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
> >Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail.
This
> >method works.
>
> You are absolutely correct. The problem is that the places that fill CO2
don't
> charge by the pound, but by the fill. So it costs the same to fill an
empty
> bottle as one that is only partially empty. I can be a cheap SOB and I
hate not
> getting everything I paid for. <g>
>
> One other problem that isn't talked about much is where do you get the
bottle
> refilled? If it is close to home it is no big deal, but if you live in a
small
> town they might have to send it out to be filled. I found this out the
hard way
> when after a couple of day of wheeling in Moab my bottle went dry. No,
biggie I
> thought. There is a welding supply right on the main street of town.
Well,
> they couldn't fill it for me because they send everything to a bigger town
to be
> filled, and it would take a couple of days.
>
> Like I said before CO2 is the best gas for this application. You can
build one
> yourself for around $150 - $180 in an afternoon. They are simple and
basically
> fool proof. They can easily be moved from vehicle to vehicle. BUT if you
plan
> to keep your Jeep for a long time the belt driven compressor will pay for
itself
> over the long haul.
>
> Regards,
> Dean
would explode. As long as that burst disk is funcioning (it wouldn't hold
air if it wasn't) there is virtually no chance of the tank exploding. I know
of one person that removed the burst disk in a tank to over fill it, he paid
for it with his life, tank exploded and blew him in half (he was standing
right in front of the compressor).
Also, while the tank will hold 3000PSI, it certainly doesn't have to be
filled to capacity. How many tires could you fill with an 80 cubic foot
tank?
"Dean" <do.not.email.me@post.it.to.the.group.com> wrote in message
news:g28390tsi8ai2hmbjniqp08g7e7u0sa5d5@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:11:38 GMT, "Richard Harris"
<SHARRIS11nospam@san.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure
than
> >air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.
>
> The safety margin for CO2 vs a scuba tank isn't so much in the strength
margin
> of the bottle but in how the energy is released if there is an accident.
A
> 3,000 psi scuba tank is going to release its energy all at once, think
shrapnel,
> think bomb. :-( If a CO2 bottle is punctured in an accident the liquid
CO2 will
> change immediately to a solid (dry ice) and gradually evaporate. That
said I
> wouldn't want to be anywhere near either bottle in an accident.
>
> >I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to
put
> >it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears
by
> >it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
> >seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever.
>
> CO2 will run air tools just fine. In fact I can't tell a bit of difference
> between the CO2 and my shop compressor, except cost. A full 5 lb CO2
bottle
> will fill about 20 33x12.5 tires.
>
> >He does have a special
> >regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it
depressurizes.
>
> All compressed gas cools as it expands, so all regulators that I know of
are
> designed with that in mind. When I fill my tires the regulator and first
6
> inches of the hose will get covered in frost. I live in a place that
considers
> 20% humidity to be muggy so I don't know how it would behave in a place
with
> real humidity. <g>
>
> >The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
> >trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale.
Weigh
> >the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
> >somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
> >bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
> >Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail.
This
> >method works.
>
> You are absolutely correct. The problem is that the places that fill CO2
don't
> charge by the pound, but by the fill. So it costs the same to fill an
empty
> bottle as one that is only partially empty. I can be a cheap SOB and I
hate not
> getting everything I paid for. <g>
>
> One other problem that isn't talked about much is where do you get the
bottle
> refilled? If it is close to home it is no big deal, but if you live in a
small
> town they might have to send it out to be filled. I found this out the
hard way
> when after a couple of day of wheeling in Moab my bottle went dry. No,
biggie I
> thought. There is a welding supply right on the main street of town.
Well,
> they couldn't fill it for me because they send everything to a bigger town
to be
> filled, and it would take a couple of days.
>
> Like I said before CO2 is the best gas for this application. You can
build one
> yourself for around $150 - $180 in an afternoon. They are simple and
basically
> fool proof. They can easily be moved from vehicle to vehicle. BUT if you
plan
> to keep your Jeep for a long time the belt driven compressor will pay for
itself
> over the long haul.
>
> Regards,
> Dean
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