Lou

Hello,

My son & I are new to Jeepin'. We picked up an 85 CJ7 in May, drove it
1973 miles from Philly to Denver and have been tinkering, upgrading and
learning since then.

We have just picked up used 258 block, complete from flywheel to water
pump for 50$ and want to use it to do a complete rebuild.

Would like any recommendations regarding sources for master kits, 258
tribal knowledge / tips&tricks and recommendations on books regarding
rebuild of this motor.

We had toyed with the idea of putting a 318 I have into the CJ but my
boy wants to keep the original L6 but upgrade to a Howell system.

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience,


Lou

Carl

The 258 is a good motor. From what I have read (mostly from Mike R) the
Carter is a good carb if you can tune it properly. He will probably chime in
with a few tuning tips and maybe a good parts source for your rebuild kit.

HTH

Carl


"Lou" <lou85cj7@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12lupoogbnkvk59@corp.supernews.com...
> Hello,
>
> My son & I are new to Jeepin'. We picked up an 85 CJ7 in May, drove it
> 1973 miles from Philly to Denver and have been tinkering, upgrading and
> learning since then.
>
> We have just picked up used 258 block, complete from flywheel to water
> pump for 50$ and want to use it to do a complete rebuild.
>
> Would like any recommendations regarding sources for master kits, 258
> tribal knowledge / tips&tricks and recommendations on books regarding
> rebuild of this motor.
>
> We had toyed with the idea of putting a 318 I have into the CJ but my boy
> wants to keep the original L6 but upgrade to a Howell system.
>
> Thanks in advance for sharing your experience,
>
>
> Lou

Carl

The 258 is a good motor. From what I have read (mostly from Mike R) the
Carter is a good carb if you can tune it properly. He will probably chime in
with a few tuning tips and maybe a good parts source for your rebuild kit.

HTH

Carl


"Lou" <lou85cj7@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12lupoogbnkvk59@corp.supernews.com...
> Hello,
>
> My son & I are new to Jeepin'. We picked up an 85 CJ7 in May, drove it
> 1973 miles from Philly to Denver and have been tinkering, upgrading and
> learning since then.
>
> We have just picked up used 258 block, complete from flywheel to water
> pump for 50$ and want to use it to do a complete rebuild.
>
> Would like any recommendations regarding sources for master kits, 258
> tribal knowledge / tips&tricks and recommendations on books regarding
> rebuild of this motor.
>
> We had toyed with the idea of putting a 318 I have into the CJ but my boy
> wants to keep the original L6 but upgrade to a Howell system.
>
> Thanks in advance for sharing your experience,
>
>
> Lou

Carl

The 258 is a good motor. From what I have read (mostly from Mike R) the
Carter is a good carb if you can tune it properly. He will probably chime in
with a few tuning tips and maybe a good parts source for your rebuild kit.

HTH

Carl


"Lou" <lou85cj7@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12lupoogbnkvk59@corp.supernews.com...
> Hello,
>
> My son & I are new to Jeepin'. We picked up an 85 CJ7 in May, drove it
> 1973 miles from Philly to Denver and have been tinkering, upgrading and
> learning since then.
>
> We have just picked up used 258 block, complete from flywheel to water
> pump for 50$ and want to use it to do a complete rebuild.
>
> Would like any recommendations regarding sources for master kits, 258
> tribal knowledge / tips&tricks and recommendations on books regarding
> rebuild of this motor.
>
> We had toyed with the idea of putting a 318 I have into the CJ but my boy
> wants to keep the original L6 but upgrade to a Howell system.
>
> Thanks in advance for sharing your experience,
>
>
> Lou

James Drinkwater

Hi Lou,
Good on ya' for taking the "roll your own" approach. He'll undoubtedly be
prouder, more knowledgeable and more pleased with the end product. I took
the road less traveled for fifteen years with the I6 and fought the "Why
don't you just go with a V8" crowd for years. Here's my take on it all.
The 258's definitely a good motor with plenty of torque and a 1/4 million
miles longevity if treated right. But, the Howell fuel injection thing's
too darned expensive for the return. Sure, you'll have a great engine with
good torque and okay fuel economy, but you're gonna pay through the nose for
it. I have to say that I eventually lost the fight with mine and put a
Corvette, fuel-injected 350 in. Basically, if you want more of everything,
you might as well start with a better platform. If you want a selling
point, I'd say, "A carburetor won't fail, is simpler and will do the job
well enough that you won't notice the difference." Okay, that last one's
arguable but, truth is, you won't see a huge difference and most won't
notice it unless they're so in touch that they can feel the engine's a quart
low (Yes, some of us are That sensitive:) The parts for fuel-injection are
out there in junkyards for a V8. But, I'm not trying to sell you away from
the I6. Just recommending a well-tuned, I6 motor.
I recommend the standard, well-named rebuild parts and proper machining.
Take the block, heads, crank, rods, flywheel, harmonic balancer and perhaps
the pistons to a good machinist to have it all honed and "trued up".
Assuming you're doing a non-racing build, there's no need to do any fancy
work like profiled (lightened) rods or ported heads or that kind of thing
[just honed cylinders, line bored crank journals, mic the crankshaft,
resurfaced flywheel and reconditioned piston rods if dictated]. A machinist
might have to bore the cylinders which would require new pistons.
Everything else is probably academic but get the machining done before you
get a kit in case you need .010 bearings, pistons, different rings, etc.
Also recommend a new clutch while you're in there and the flywheel's cleaned
up.
Everything you need can be sourced with top-quality stuff at the local
O'Reilly's. My personal preference is as follows. You'll have to decide on
the cost benefit of each as you price it out.
-Fel-Pro gaskets. I hate cork and insist on Perma-Dry for the covers since
they have a metal core, ribbed rubber surface and can be opened and reused.
They'll also help with the infamous oil leak at the back of the valve cover
(hope yours isn't plastic).
-Copper exhaust manifold gaskets! I've never had a set of fiber gaskets
that didn't go out. Copper's "reusable" and hold a good seal (but much more
expense). If you have a white set of exhaust gaskets, DITCH 'EM! They're
worthless in my book and other folks actually practice using two just to
make 'em work which exacerbates the tendency to blow out. If you want a
decent pair at a better price than copper, get the black set and retorque
'em just after breaking in the motor. Then... retorque 'em again.
-Bearings. I like Clevite77 but, frankly, don't think this is a
earth-shattering issue since most crank/rod bearings are of fair quality.
-Piston rings. I'd recommend Total-Seal gapless rings. There are good
reasons to use old-fashioned, gapped rings even in professional racing
circuits, but for this application, I think the sealing ability/longevity is
right up your alley. You'll also get some cool points in the back of your
mind. Haha!
-Pistons (if necessary). We're talkin' about a 258 six cylinder here... If
he wants anything other than a simple piston, tell him to go to Shafiroff
Racing and drop ten grand on a different motor. If you have to change the
camshaft and want to get mildly sporty, you can open a small can of worms
(which could be a little fun:). Otherwise, a simple, cast piston's all this
engine cares about.
That's my, "two cents adjusted for inflation" and I hope it helps. Just
take a look around for a kit with name-brand components or pick 'em up
individually at the parts store.
Best Regards,
Drink

>> Would like any recommendations regarding sources for master kits, 258
>> tribal knowledge / tips&tricks and recommendations on books regarding
>> rebuild of this motor.
>>
>> We had toyed with the idea of putting a 318 I have into the CJ but my boy
>> wants to keep the original L6 but upgrade to a Howell system.

James Drinkwater

Hi Lou,
Good on ya' for taking the "roll your own" approach. He'll undoubtedly be
prouder, more knowledgeable and more pleased with the end product. I took
the road less traveled for fifteen years with the I6 and fought the "Why
don't you just go with a V8" crowd for years. Here's my take on it all.
The 258's definitely a good motor with plenty of torque and a 1/4 million
miles longevity if treated right. But, the Howell fuel injection thing's
too darned expensive for the return. Sure, you'll have a great engine with
good torque and okay fuel economy, but you're gonna pay through the nose for
it. I have to say that I eventually lost the fight with mine and put a
Corvette, fuel-injected 350 in. Basically, if you want more of everything,
you might as well start with a better platform. If you want a selling
point, I'd say, "A carburetor won't fail, is simpler and will do the job
well enough that you won't notice the difference." Okay, that last one's
arguable but, truth is, you won't see a huge difference and most won't
notice it unless they're so in touch that they can feel the engine's a quart
low (Yes, some of us are That sensitive:) The parts for fuel-injection are
out there in junkyards for a V8. But, I'm not trying to sell you away from
the I6. Just recommending a well-tuned, I6 motor.
I recommend the standard, well-named rebuild parts and proper machining.
Take the block, heads, crank, rods, flywheel, harmonic balancer and perhaps
the pistons to a good machinist to have it all honed and "trued up".
Assuming you're doing a non-racing build, there's no need to do any fancy
work like profiled (lightened) rods or ported heads or that kind of thing
[just honed cylinders, line bored crank journals, mic the crankshaft,
resurfaced flywheel and reconditioned piston rods if dictated]. A machinist
might have to bore the cylinders which would require new pistons.
Everything else is probably academic but get the machining done before you
get a kit in case you need .010 bearings, pistons, different rings, etc.
Also recommend a new clutch while you're in there and the flywheel's cleaned
up.
Everything you need can be sourced with top-quality stuff at the local
O'Reilly's. My personal preference is as follows. You'll have to decide on
the cost benefit of each as you price it out.
-Fel-Pro gaskets. I hate cork and insist on Perma-Dry for the covers since
they have a metal core, ribbed rubber surface and can be opened and reused.
They'll also help with the infamous oil leak at the back of the valve cover
(hope yours isn't plastic).
-Copper exhaust manifold gaskets! I've never had a set of fiber gaskets
that didn't go out. Copper's "reusable" and hold a good seal (but much more
expense). If you have a white set of exhaust gaskets, DITCH 'EM! They're
worthless in my book and other folks actually practice using two just to
make 'em work which exacerbates the tendency to blow out. If you want a
decent pair at a better price than copper, get the black set and retorque
'em just after breaking in the motor. Then... retorque 'em again.
-Bearings. I like Clevite77 but, frankly, don't think this is a
earth-shattering issue since most crank/rod bearings are of fair quality.
-Piston rings. I'd recommend Total-Seal gapless rings. There are good
reasons to use old-fashioned, gapped rings even in professional racing
circuits, but for this application, I think the sealing ability/longevity is
right up your alley. You'll also get some cool points in the back of your
mind. Haha!
-Pistons (if necessary). We're talkin' about a 258 six cylinder here... If
he wants anything other than a simple piston, tell him to go to Shafiroff
Racing and drop ten grand on a different motor. If you have to change the
camshaft and want to get mildly sporty, you can open a small can of worms
(which could be a little fun:). Otherwise, a simple, cast piston's all this
engine cares about.
That's my, "two cents adjusted for inflation" and I hope it helps. Just
take a look around for a kit with name-brand components or pick 'em up
individually at the parts store.
Best Regards,
Drink

>> Would like any recommendations regarding sources for master kits, 258
>> tribal knowledge / tips&tricks and recommendations on books regarding
>> rebuild of this motor.
>>
>> We had toyed with the idea of putting a 318 I have into the CJ but my boy
>> wants to keep the original L6 but upgrade to a Howell system.

James Drinkwater

Hi Lou,
Good on ya' for taking the "roll your own" approach. He'll undoubtedly be
prouder, more knowledgeable and more pleased with the end product. I took
the road less traveled for fifteen years with the I6 and fought the "Why
don't you just go with a V8" crowd for years. Here's my take on it all.
The 258's definitely a good motor with plenty of torque and a 1/4 million
miles longevity if treated right. But, the Howell fuel injection thing's
too darned expensive for the return. Sure, you'll have a great engine with
good torque and okay fuel economy, but you're gonna pay through the nose for
it. I have to say that I eventually lost the fight with mine and put a
Corvette, fuel-injected 350 in. Basically, if you want more of everything,
you might as well start with a better platform. If you want a selling
point, I'd say, "A carburetor won't fail, is simpler and will do the job
well enough that you won't notice the difference." Okay, that last one's
arguable but, truth is, you won't see a huge difference and most won't
notice it unless they're so in touch that they can feel the engine's a quart
low (Yes, some of us are That sensitive:) The parts for fuel-injection are
out there in junkyards for a V8. But, I'm not trying to sell you away from
the I6. Just recommending a well-tuned, I6 motor.
I recommend the standard, well-named rebuild parts and proper machining.
Take the block, heads, crank, rods, flywheel, harmonic balancer and perhaps
the pistons to a good machinist to have it all honed and "trued up".
Assuming you're doing a non-racing build, there's no need to do any fancy
work like profiled (lightened) rods or ported heads or that kind of thing
[just honed cylinders, line bored crank journals, mic the crankshaft,
resurfaced flywheel and reconditioned piston rods if dictated]. A machinist
might have to bore the cylinders which would require new pistons.
Everything else is probably academic but get the machining done before you
get a kit in case you need .010 bearings, pistons, different rings, etc.
Also recommend a new clutch while you're in there and the flywheel's cleaned
up.
Everything you need can be sourced with top-quality stuff at the local
O'Reilly's. My personal preference is as follows. You'll have to decide on
the cost benefit of each as you price it out.
-Fel-Pro gaskets. I hate cork and insist on Perma-Dry for the covers since
they have a metal core, ribbed rubber surface and can be opened and reused.
They'll also help with the infamous oil leak at the back of the valve cover
(hope yours isn't plastic).
-Copper exhaust manifold gaskets! I've never had a set of fiber gaskets
that didn't go out. Copper's "reusable" and hold a good seal (but much more
expense). If you have a white set of exhaust gaskets, DITCH 'EM! They're
worthless in my book and other folks actually practice using two just to
make 'em work which exacerbates the tendency to blow out. If you want a
decent pair at a better price than copper, get the black set and retorque
'em just after breaking in the motor. Then... retorque 'em again.
-Bearings. I like Clevite77 but, frankly, don't think this is a
earth-shattering issue since most crank/rod bearings are of fair quality.
-Piston rings. I'd recommend Total-Seal gapless rings. There are good
reasons to use old-fashioned, gapped rings even in professional racing
circuits, but for this application, I think the sealing ability/longevity is
right up your alley. You'll also get some cool points in the back of your
mind. Haha!
-Pistons (if necessary). We're talkin' about a 258 six cylinder here... If
he wants anything other than a simple piston, tell him to go to Shafiroff
Racing and drop ten grand on a different motor. If you have to change the
camshaft and want to get mildly sporty, you can open a small can of worms
(which could be a little fun:). Otherwise, a simple, cast piston's all this
engine cares about.
That's my, "two cents adjusted for inflation" and I hope it helps. Just
take a look around for a kit with name-brand components or pick 'em up
individually at the parts store.
Best Regards,
Drink

>> Would like any recommendations regarding sources for master kits, 258
>> tribal knowledge / tips&tricks and recommendations on books regarding
>> rebuild of this motor.
>>
>> We had toyed with the idea of putting a 318 I have into the CJ but my boy
>> wants to keep the original L6 but upgrade to a Howell system.

dave AKA vwdoc1

I suggest that you join the Jeep 4.0 engine improved performance group

strokers @ yahoogroups.com

You will find a wealth of information about improving the I6 engine for
power.
Read the archives and then ask your questions! ;-)

You might even be able to pick up a Jeep Cherokee (87-on) and use the engine
parts, along with your 258 engine, and fuel injection parts to do a low
budget upgrade.

later,
dave AKA vwdoc1


"Lou" <lou85cj7@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12lupoogbnkvk59@corp.supernews.com...
> Hello,
>
> My son & I are new to Jeepin'. We picked up an 85 CJ7 in May, drove it
> 1973 miles from Philly to Denver and have been tinkering, upgrading and
> learning since then.
>
> We have just picked up used 258 block, complete from flywheel to water
> pump for 50$ and want to use it to do a complete rebuild.
>
> Would like any recommendations regarding sources for master kits, 258
> tribal knowledge / tips&tricks and recommendations on books regarding
> rebuild of this motor.
>
> We had toyed with the idea of putting a 318 I have into the CJ but my boy
> wants to keep the original L6 but upgrade to a Howell system.
>
> Thanks in advance for sharing your experience,
>
>
> Lou

dave AKA vwdoc1

I suggest that you join the Jeep 4.0 engine improved performance group

strokers @ yahoogroups.com

You will find a wealth of information about improving the I6 engine for
power.
Read the archives and then ask your questions! ;-)

You might even be able to pick up a Jeep Cherokee (87-on) and use the engine
parts, along with your 258 engine, and fuel injection parts to do a low
budget upgrade.

later,
dave AKA vwdoc1


"Lou" <lou85cj7@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12lupoogbnkvk59@corp.supernews.com...
> Hello,
>
> My son & I are new to Jeepin'. We picked up an 85 CJ7 in May, drove it
> 1973 miles from Philly to Denver and have been tinkering, upgrading and
> learning since then.
>
> We have just picked up used 258 block, complete from flywheel to water
> pump for 50$ and want to use it to do a complete rebuild.
>
> Would like any recommendations regarding sources for master kits, 258
> tribal knowledge / tips&tricks and recommendations on books regarding
> rebuild of this motor.
>
> We had toyed with the idea of putting a 318 I have into the CJ but my boy
> wants to keep the original L6 but upgrade to a Howell system.
>
> Thanks in advance for sharing your experience,
>
>
> Lou

dave AKA vwdoc1

I suggest that you join the Jeep 4.0 engine improved performance group

strokers @ yahoogroups.com

You will find a wealth of information about improving the I6 engine for
power.
Read the archives and then ask your questions! ;-)

You might even be able to pick up a Jeep Cherokee (87-on) and use the engine
parts, along with your 258 engine, and fuel injection parts to do a low
budget upgrade.

later,
dave AKA vwdoc1


"Lou" <lou85cj7@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12lupoogbnkvk59@corp.supernews.com...
> Hello,
>
> My son & I are new to Jeepin'. We picked up an 85 CJ7 in May, drove it
> 1973 miles from Philly to Denver and have been tinkering, upgrading and
> learning since then.
>
> We have just picked up used 258 block, complete from flywheel to water
> pump for 50$ and want to use it to do a complete rebuild.
>
> Would like any recommendations regarding sources for master kits, 258
> tribal knowledge / tips&tricks and recommendations on books regarding
> rebuild of this motor.
>
> We had toyed with the idea of putting a 318 I have into the CJ but my boy
> wants to keep the original L6 but upgrade to a Howell system.
>
> Thanks in advance for sharing your experience,
>
>
> Lou