Paul Brogren

Mike,
I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can
physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction.
Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out.

Thanks,
Paul

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca...
> Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at
> idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum.
>
> Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking.
> They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while.
>
> What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and
> the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the
> CTO.
>
> It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not
> have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a
> different cam for the engine without the EGR.
>
> When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the
> best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way.
>
> I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for
> manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails
> miserably.
>
> There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at
> full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to
> full advance around 2300 rpm I believe.
>
> The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all
> the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull
> with manifold vacuum.
>
> I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a
> straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for
> emissions on my 'utility' vehicle.
>
> So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can
> easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it,
> when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any
> more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor
> while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the
> rotor more.
>
> Mike
>
> Paul Brogren wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference,
but
> > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is
labeled
> > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the
vacuum
> > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum?
> >
> > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up
significantly.
> > I have not driven it this way though.
> >
> > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve
> > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from
> > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a
crutial
> > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold
start
> > up?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Paul

Paul Brogren

Mike,
I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can
physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction.
Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out.

Thanks,
Paul

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca...
> Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at
> idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum.
>
> Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking.
> They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while.
>
> What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and
> the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the
> CTO.
>
> It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not
> have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a
> different cam for the engine without the EGR.
>
> When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the
> best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way.
>
> I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for
> manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails
> miserably.
>
> There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at
> full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to
> full advance around 2300 rpm I believe.
>
> The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all
> the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull
> with manifold vacuum.
>
> I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a
> straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for
> emissions on my 'utility' vehicle.
>
> So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can
> easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it,
> when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any
> more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor
> while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the
> rotor more.
>
> Mike
>
> Paul Brogren wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference,
but
> > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is
labeled
> > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the
vacuum
> > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum?
> >
> > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up
significantly.
> > I have not driven it this way though.
> >
> > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve
> > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from
> > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a
crutial
> > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold
start
> > up?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Paul

Paul Brogren

Mike,
I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can
physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction.
Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out.

Thanks,
Paul

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca...
> Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at
> idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum.
>
> Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking.
> They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while.
>
> What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and
> the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the
> CTO.
>
> It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not
> have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a
> different cam for the engine without the EGR.
>
> When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the
> best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way.
>
> I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for
> manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails
> miserably.
>
> There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at
> full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to
> full advance around 2300 rpm I believe.
>
> The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all
> the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull
> with manifold vacuum.
>
> I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a
> straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for
> emissions on my 'utility' vehicle.
>
> So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can
> easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it,
> when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any
> more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor
> while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the
> rotor more.
>
> Mike
>
> Paul Brogren wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference,
but
> > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is
labeled
> > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the
vacuum
> > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum?
> >
> > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up
significantly.
> > I have not driven it this way though.
> >
> > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve
> > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from
> > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a
crutial
> > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold
start
> > up?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Paul

Mike Romain

Ok, so the vacuum advance just moves the trigger plate then. I didn't
open my cap to look, I just saw the plate move from the outside on mine.

You have issues with the weights and rotor. The rotor should be spring
loaded and pop back into place instantly. I would try a couple drops of
oil down the hole under the rotor and see if that loosens it up. With
that seized or sticky, the base timing will never set stable.

Taking the whole works apart can be a pain because that pickup wheel is
pressed onto the shaft, you need a gear puller to get it off.

I was just looking at my book and it would appear your vacuum advance is
adjustable too, but no need to mess with that.

Here is one for you too. I see this all the time. The manifold and the
carb base need to be re-torqued after a couple hundred miles. If/when
they come loose, it will really drop in power.

Mike

Paul Brogren wrote:
>
> Correction!
> You know, I thought about this rotor moving thing. When suction is applied
> the advance I have, it pulls the pickup sensor back and forth within the
> trigger wheel of the distributor.
>
> Paul
>
> "Paul Brogren" <pibrogren@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:bm4bvd$ilsf2$1@ID-190695.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Mike,
> > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can
> > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction.
> > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Paul
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca...
> > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at
> > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum.
> > >
> > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking.
> > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while.
> > >
> > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and
> > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the
> > > CTO.
> > >
> > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not
> > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a
> > > different cam for the engine without the EGR.
> > >
> > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the
> > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way.
> > >
> > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for
> > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails
> > > miserably.
> > >
> > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at
> > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to
> > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe.
> > >
> > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all
> > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull
> > > with manifold vacuum.
> > >
> > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a
> > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for
> > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle.
> > >
> > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can
> > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it,
> > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any
> > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor
> > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the
> > > rotor more.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Paul Brogren wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Mike,
> > > >
> > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference,
> > but
> > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is
> > labeled
> > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the
> > vacuum
> > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum?
> > > >
> > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up
> > significantly.
> > > > I have not driven it this way though.
> > > >
> > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve
> > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line
> from
> > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a
> > crutial
> > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold
> > start
> > > > up?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Paul
> >
> >

Mike Romain

Ok, so the vacuum advance just moves the trigger plate then. I didn't
open my cap to look, I just saw the plate move from the outside on mine.

You have issues with the weights and rotor. The rotor should be spring
loaded and pop back into place instantly. I would try a couple drops of
oil down the hole under the rotor and see if that loosens it up. With
that seized or sticky, the base timing will never set stable.

Taking the whole works apart can be a pain because that pickup wheel is
pressed onto the shaft, you need a gear puller to get it off.

I was just looking at my book and it would appear your vacuum advance is
adjustable too, but no need to mess with that.

Here is one for you too. I see this all the time. The manifold and the
carb base need to be re-torqued after a couple hundred miles. If/when
they come loose, it will really drop in power.

Mike

Paul Brogren wrote:
>
> Correction!
> You know, I thought about this rotor moving thing. When suction is applied
> the advance I have, it pulls the pickup sensor back and forth within the
> trigger wheel of the distributor.
>
> Paul
>
> "Paul Brogren" <pibrogren@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:bm4bvd$ilsf2$1@ID-190695.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Mike,
> > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can
> > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction.
> > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Paul
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca...
> > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at
> > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum.
> > >
> > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking.
> > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while.
> > >
> > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and
> > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the
> > > CTO.
> > >
> > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not
> > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a
> > > different cam for the engine without the EGR.
> > >
> > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the
> > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way.
> > >
> > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for
> > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails
> > > miserably.
> > >
> > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at
> > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to
> > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe.
> > >
> > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all
> > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull
> > > with manifold vacuum.
> > >
> > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a
> > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for
> > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle.
> > >
> > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can
> > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it,
> > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any
> > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor
> > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the
> > > rotor more.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Paul Brogren wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Mike,
> > > >
> > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference,
> > but
> > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is
> > labeled
> > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the
> > vacuum
> > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum?
> > > >
> > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up
> > significantly.
> > > > I have not driven it this way though.
> > > >
> > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve
> > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line
> from
> > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a
> > crutial
> > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold
> > start
> > > > up?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Paul
> >
> >

Mike Romain

Ok, so the vacuum advance just moves the trigger plate then. I didn't
open my cap to look, I just saw the plate move from the outside on mine.

You have issues with the weights and rotor. The rotor should be spring
loaded and pop back into place instantly. I would try a couple drops of
oil down the hole under the rotor and see if that loosens it up. With
that seized or sticky, the base timing will never set stable.

Taking the whole works apart can be a pain because that pickup wheel is
pressed onto the shaft, you need a gear puller to get it off.

I was just looking at my book and it would appear your vacuum advance is
adjustable too, but no need to mess with that.

Here is one for you too. I see this all the time. The manifold and the
carb base need to be re-torqued after a couple hundred miles. If/when
they come loose, it will really drop in power.

Mike

Paul Brogren wrote:
>
> Correction!
> You know, I thought about this rotor moving thing. When suction is applied
> the advance I have, it pulls the pickup sensor back and forth within the
> trigger wheel of the distributor.
>
> Paul
>
> "Paul Brogren" <pibrogren@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:bm4bvd$ilsf2$1@ID-190695.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Mike,
> > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can
> > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction.
> > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Paul
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca...
> > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at
> > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum.
> > >
> > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking.
> > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while.
> > >
> > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and
> > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the
> > > CTO.
> > >
> > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not
> > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a
> > > different cam for the engine without the EGR.
> > >
> > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the
> > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way.
> > >
> > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for
> > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails
> > > miserably.
> > >
> > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at
> > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to
> > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe.
> > >
> > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all
> > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull
> > > with manifold vacuum.
> > >
> > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a
> > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for
> > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle.
> > >
> > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can
> > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it,
> > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any
> > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor
> > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the
> > > rotor more.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Paul Brogren wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Mike,
> > > >
> > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference,
> > but
> > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is
> > labeled
> > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the
> > vacuum
> > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum?
> > > >
> > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up
> > significantly.
> > > > I have not driven it this way though.
> > > >
> > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve
> > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line
> from
> > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a
> > crutial
> > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold
> > start
> > > > up?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Paul
> >
> >

Mike Romain

It still moves the same Paul.

Bill is thinking along the same lines as I am, the shaft is likely in
dire need of oil. I would take out the felt pad for the first oil job,
then once it is loosened up, oil the pad and put it back in.

Mike

Paul Brogren wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
> If I remember right I have an electronic type not a points type distributor.
> I can remember where I read it, but it's in one of my manual's vehicle
> specifications charts for my year and engine.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:3F85BE61.943F81@***.net...
> > Hi Paul,
> > the "suction thing" should have rotated the plate holding the points
> > and condenser. Capping that hose with your tongue should have held it
> > there, if the diaphragm is good. The springs on the centrifugal advance
> > weights should be strong enough to spring back when released. wiggle the
> > shaft to make sure it's not worn out so much that you can open and close
> > points. maybe, put a little oil on that felt pad to keep that way.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Paul Brogren wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can
> > > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without
> suction.
> > > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn
> out.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance
> at
> > > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum.
> > > >
> > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking.
> > > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a
> while.
> > > >
> > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and
> > > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least
> the
> > > > CTO.
> > > >
> > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not
> > > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a
> > > > different cam for the engine without the EGR.
> > > >
> > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get
> the
> > > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that
> way.
> > > >
> > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for
> > > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails
> > > > miserably.
> > > >
> > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is
> at
> > > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it
> to
> > > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe.
> > > >
> > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all
> > > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull
> > > > with manifold vacuum.
> > > >
> > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have
> a
> > > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat
> for
> > > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle.
> > > >
> > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I
> can
> > > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it,
> > > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any
> > > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the
> rotor
> > > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the
> > > > rotor more.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Paul Brogren wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Mike,
> > > > >
> > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile
> difference,
> > > but
> > > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is
> > > labeled
> > > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the
> > > vacuum
> > > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum?
> > > > >
> > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up
> > > significantly.
> > > > > I have not driven it this way though.
> > > > >
> > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve
> > > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line
> from
> > > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a
> > > crutial
> > > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold
> > > start
> > > > > up?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Paul

Mike Romain

It still moves the same Paul.

Bill is thinking along the same lines as I am, the shaft is likely in
dire need of oil. I would take out the felt pad for the first oil job,
then once it is loosened up, oil the pad and put it back in.

Mike

Paul Brogren wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
> If I remember right I have an electronic type not a points type distributor.
> I can remember where I read it, but it's in one of my manual's vehicle
> specifications charts for my year and engine.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:3F85BE61.943F81@***.net...
> > Hi Paul,
> > the "suction thing" should have rotated the plate holding the points
> > and condenser. Capping that hose with your tongue should have held it
> > there, if the diaphragm is good. The springs on the centrifugal advance
> > weights should be strong enough to spring back when released. wiggle the
> > shaft to make sure it's not worn out so much that you can open and close
> > points. maybe, put a little oil on that felt pad to keep that way.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Paul Brogren wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can
> > > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without
> suction.
> > > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn
> out.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance
> at
> > > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum.
> > > >
> > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking.
> > > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a
> while.
> > > >
> > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and
> > > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least
> the
> > > > CTO.
> > > >
> > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not
> > > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a
> > > > different cam for the engine without the EGR.
> > > >
> > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get
> the
> > > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that
> way.
> > > >
> > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for
> > > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails
> > > > miserably.
> > > >
> > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is
> at
> > > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it
> to
> > > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe.
> > > >
> > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all
> > > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull
> > > > with manifold vacuum.
> > > >
> > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have
> a
> > > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat
> for
> > > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle.
> > > >
> > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I
> can
> > > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it,
> > > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any
> > > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the
> rotor
> > > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the
> > > > rotor more.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Paul Brogren wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Mike,
> > > > >
> > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile
> difference,
> > > but
> > > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is
> > > labeled
> > > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the
> > > vacuum
> > > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum?
> > > > >
> > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up
> > > significantly.
> > > > > I have not driven it this way though.
> > > > >
> > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve
> > > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line
> from
> > > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a
> > > crutial
> > > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold
> > > start
> > > > > up?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Paul

Mike Romain

It still moves the same Paul.

Bill is thinking along the same lines as I am, the shaft is likely in
dire need of oil. I would take out the felt pad for the first oil job,
then once it is loosened up, oil the pad and put it back in.

Mike

Paul Brogren wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
> If I remember right I have an electronic type not a points type distributor.
> I can remember where I read it, but it's in one of my manual's vehicle
> specifications charts for my year and engine.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:3F85BE61.943F81@***.net...
> > Hi Paul,
> > the "suction thing" should have rotated the plate holding the points
> > and condenser. Capping that hose with your tongue should have held it
> > there, if the diaphragm is good. The springs on the centrifugal advance
> > weights should be strong enough to spring back when released. wiggle the
> > shaft to make sure it's not worn out so much that you can open and close
> > points. maybe, put a little oil on that felt pad to keep that way.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Paul Brogren wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can
> > > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without
> suction.
> > > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn
> out.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance
> at
> > > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum.
> > > >
> > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking.
> > > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a
> while.
> > > >
> > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and
> > > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least
> the
> > > > CTO.
> > > >
> > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not
> > > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a
> > > > different cam for the engine without the EGR.
> > > >
> > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get
> the
> > > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that
> way.
> > > >
> > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for
> > > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails
> > > > miserably.
> > > >
> > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is
> at
> > > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it
> to
> > > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe.
> > > >
> > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all
> > > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull
> > > > with manifold vacuum.
> > > >
> > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have
> a
> > > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat
> for
> > > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle.
> > > >
> > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I
> can
> > > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it,
> > > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any
> > > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the
> rotor
> > > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the
> > > > rotor more.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Paul Brogren wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Mike,
> > > > >
> > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile
> difference,
> > > but
> > > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is
> > > labeled
> > > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the
> > > vacuum
> > > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum?
> > > > >
> > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up
> > > significantly.
> > > > > I have not driven it this way though.
> > > > >
> > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve
> > > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line
> from
> > > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a
> > > crutial
> > > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold
> > > start
> > > > > up?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Paul

Paul Brogren

Correction!
You know, I thought about this rotor moving thing. When suction is applied
the advance I have, it pulls the pickup sensor back and forth within the
trigger wheel of the distributor.

Paul

"Paul Brogren" <pibrogren@msn.com> wrote in message
news:bm4bvd$ilsf2$1@ID-190695.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Mike,
> I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can
> physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction.
> Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca...
> > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at
> > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum.
> >
> > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking.
> > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while.
> >
> > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and
> > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the
> > CTO.
> >
> > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not
> > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a
> > different cam for the engine without the EGR.
> >
> > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the
> > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way.
> >
> > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for
> > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails
> > miserably.
> >
> > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at
> > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to
> > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe.
> >
> > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all
> > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull
> > with manifold vacuum.
> >
> > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a
> > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for
> > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle.
> >
> > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can
> > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it,
> > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any
> > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor
> > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the
> > rotor more.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Paul Brogren wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Mike,
> > >
> > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference,
> but
> > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is
> labeled
> > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the
> vacuum
> > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum?
> > >
> > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up
> significantly.
> > > I have not driven it this way though.
> > >
> > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve
> > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line
from
> > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a
> crutial
> > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold
> start
> > > up?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Paul
>
>