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Re: Vacuum Advance
Hi Mike,
I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, but not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is labeled above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the vacuum line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up significantly. I have not driven it this way though. The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a crutial component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold start up? Thanks Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at
idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the CTO. It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a different cam for the engine without the EGR. When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails miserably. There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull with manifold vacuum. I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the rotor more. Mike Paul Brogren wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, but > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is labeled > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the vacuum > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up significantly. > I have not driven it this way though. > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a crutial > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold start > up? > > Thanks > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at
idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the CTO. It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a different cam for the engine without the EGR. When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails miserably. There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull with manifold vacuum. I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the rotor more. Mike Paul Brogren wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, but > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is labeled > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the vacuum > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up significantly. > I have not driven it this way though. > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a crutial > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold start > up? > > Thanks > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at
idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the CTO. It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a different cam for the engine without the EGR. When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails miserably. There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull with manifold vacuum. I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the rotor more. Mike Paul Brogren wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, but > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is labeled > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the vacuum > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up significantly. > I have not driven it this way though. > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a crutial > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold start > up? > > Thanks > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Hi Paul,
the "suction thing" should have rotated the plate holding the points and condenser. Capping that hose with your tongue should have held it there, if the diaphragm is good. The springs on the centrifugal advance weights should be strong enough to spring back when released. wiggle the shaft to make sure it's not worn out so much that you can open and close points. maybe, put a little oil on that felt pad to keep that way. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Paul Brogren wrote: > > Mike, > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction. > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out. > > Thanks, > Paul > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > > CTO. > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > > miserably. > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > > rotor more. > > > > Mike > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, > but > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is > labeled > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > vacuum > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > significantly. > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a > crutial > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold > start > > > up? > > > > > > Thanks > > > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Hi Paul,
the "suction thing" should have rotated the plate holding the points and condenser. Capping that hose with your tongue should have held it there, if the diaphragm is good. The springs on the centrifugal advance weights should be strong enough to spring back when released. wiggle the shaft to make sure it's not worn out so much that you can open and close points. maybe, put a little oil on that felt pad to keep that way. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Paul Brogren wrote: > > Mike, > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction. > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out. > > Thanks, > Paul > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > > CTO. > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > > miserably. > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > > rotor more. > > > > Mike > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, > but > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is > labeled > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > vacuum > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > significantly. > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a > crutial > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold > start > > > up? > > > > > > Thanks > > > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Hi Paul,
the "suction thing" should have rotated the plate holding the points and condenser. Capping that hose with your tongue should have held it there, if the diaphragm is good. The springs on the centrifugal advance weights should be strong enough to spring back when released. wiggle the shaft to make sure it's not worn out so much that you can open and close points. maybe, put a little oil on that felt pad to keep that way. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Paul Brogren wrote: > > Mike, > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction. > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out. > > Thanks, > Paul > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > > CTO. > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > > miserably. > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > > rotor more. > > > > Mike > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, > but > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is > labeled > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > vacuum > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > significantly. > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a > crutial > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold > start > > > up? > > > > > > Thanks > > > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Hi Mike,
I don't have an EGR. It's port on the carb is capped. What I have on the carb is a capped EGR (port that points straight at the valve cover), vacuum line on the diagonal port that (points toward water pump/front of engine) goes to distributor nipple, and a capped spark port that points toward drivers side headlight. I don't have an emissions diagram for my year 1975, but I believe that the '74 did not have an EGR. Sounds crazy, but all this power lack came after I replaced the header w/stock manifold and re-built the carb. 65-70 mph is definitely top speed now. Where as before the changes I had much more. I do the suction thing on the distributor and see if the rotor can be moved more. Thanks Again, Paul "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > CTO. > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > miserably. > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > with manifold vacuum. > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > rotor more. > > Mike > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, but > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is labeled > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the vacuum > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up significantly. > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a crutial > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold start > > up? > > > > Thanks > > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Hi Mike,
I don't have an EGR. It's port on the carb is capped. What I have on the carb is a capped EGR (port that points straight at the valve cover), vacuum line on the diagonal port that (points toward water pump/front of engine) goes to distributor nipple, and a capped spark port that points toward drivers side headlight. I don't have an emissions diagram for my year 1975, but I believe that the '74 did not have an EGR. Sounds crazy, but all this power lack came after I replaced the header w/stock manifold and re-built the carb. 65-70 mph is definitely top speed now. Where as before the changes I had much more. I do the suction thing on the distributor and see if the rotor can be moved more. Thanks Again, Paul "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > CTO. > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > miserably. > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > with manifold vacuum. > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > rotor more. > > Mike > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, but > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is labeled > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the vacuum > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up significantly. > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a crutial > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold start > > up? > > > > Thanks > > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Hi Mike,
I don't have an EGR. It's port on the carb is capped. What I have on the carb is a capped EGR (port that points straight at the valve cover), vacuum line on the diagonal port that (points toward water pump/front of engine) goes to distributor nipple, and a capped spark port that points toward drivers side headlight. I don't have an emissions diagram for my year 1975, but I believe that the '74 did not have an EGR. Sounds crazy, but all this power lack came after I replaced the header w/stock manifold and re-built the carb. 65-70 mph is definitely top speed now. Where as before the changes I had much more. I do the suction thing on the distributor and see if the rotor can be moved more. Thanks Again, Paul "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > CTO. > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > miserably. > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > with manifold vacuum. > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > rotor more. > > Mike > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, but > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is labeled > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the vacuum > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up significantly. > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a crutial > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold start > > up? > > > > Thanks > > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Mike,
I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction. Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out. Thanks, Paul "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > CTO. > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > miserably. > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > with manifold vacuum. > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > rotor more. > > Mike > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, but > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is labeled > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the vacuum > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up significantly. > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a crutial > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold start > > up? > > > > Thanks > > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Mike,
I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction. Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out. Thanks, Paul "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > CTO. > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > miserably. > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > with manifold vacuum. > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > rotor more. > > Mike > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, but > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is labeled > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the vacuum > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up significantly. > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a crutial > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold start > > up? > > > > Thanks > > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Mike,
I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction. Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out. Thanks, Paul "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > CTO. > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > miserably. > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > with manifold vacuum. > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > rotor more. > > Mike > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, but > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is labeled > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the vacuum > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up significantly. > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a crutial > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold start > > up? > > > > Thanks > > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Ok, so the vacuum advance just moves the trigger plate then. I didn't
open my cap to look, I just saw the plate move from the outside on mine. You have issues with the weights and rotor. The rotor should be spring loaded and pop back into place instantly. I would try a couple drops of oil down the hole under the rotor and see if that loosens it up. With that seized or sticky, the base timing will never set stable. Taking the whole works apart can be a pain because that pickup wheel is pressed onto the shaft, you need a gear puller to get it off. I was just looking at my book and it would appear your vacuum advance is adjustable too, but no need to mess with that. Here is one for you too. I see this all the time. The manifold and the carb base need to be re-torqued after a couple hundred miles. If/when they come loose, it will really drop in power. Mike Paul Brogren wrote: > > Correction! > You know, I thought about this rotor moving thing. When suction is applied > the advance I have, it pulls the pickup sensor back and forth within the > trigger wheel of the distributor. > > Paul > > "Paul Brogren" <pibrogren@msn.com> wrote in message > news:bm4bvd$ilsf2$1@ID-190695.news.uni-berlin.de... > > Mike, > > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can > > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction. > > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out. > > > > Thanks, > > Paul > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > > > CTO. > > > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > > > miserably. > > > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > > > rotor more. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, > > but > > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is > > labeled > > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > > vacuum > > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > > significantly. > > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line > from > > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a > > crutial > > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold > > start > > > > up? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Paul > > > > |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Ok, so the vacuum advance just moves the trigger plate then. I didn't
open my cap to look, I just saw the plate move from the outside on mine. You have issues with the weights and rotor. The rotor should be spring loaded and pop back into place instantly. I would try a couple drops of oil down the hole under the rotor and see if that loosens it up. With that seized or sticky, the base timing will never set stable. Taking the whole works apart can be a pain because that pickup wheel is pressed onto the shaft, you need a gear puller to get it off. I was just looking at my book and it would appear your vacuum advance is adjustable too, but no need to mess with that. Here is one for you too. I see this all the time. The manifold and the carb base need to be re-torqued after a couple hundred miles. If/when they come loose, it will really drop in power. Mike Paul Brogren wrote: > > Correction! > You know, I thought about this rotor moving thing. When suction is applied > the advance I have, it pulls the pickup sensor back and forth within the > trigger wheel of the distributor. > > Paul > > "Paul Brogren" <pibrogren@msn.com> wrote in message > news:bm4bvd$ilsf2$1@ID-190695.news.uni-berlin.de... > > Mike, > > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can > > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction. > > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out. > > > > Thanks, > > Paul > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > > > CTO. > > > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > > > miserably. > > > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > > > rotor more. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, > > but > > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is > > labeled > > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > > vacuum > > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > > significantly. > > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line > from > > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a > > crutial > > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold > > start > > > > up? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Paul > > > > |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Ok, so the vacuum advance just moves the trigger plate then. I didn't
open my cap to look, I just saw the plate move from the outside on mine. You have issues with the weights and rotor. The rotor should be spring loaded and pop back into place instantly. I would try a couple drops of oil down the hole under the rotor and see if that loosens it up. With that seized or sticky, the base timing will never set stable. Taking the whole works apart can be a pain because that pickup wheel is pressed onto the shaft, you need a gear puller to get it off. I was just looking at my book and it would appear your vacuum advance is adjustable too, but no need to mess with that. Here is one for you too. I see this all the time. The manifold and the carb base need to be re-torqued after a couple hundred miles. If/when they come loose, it will really drop in power. Mike Paul Brogren wrote: > > Correction! > You know, I thought about this rotor moving thing. When suction is applied > the advance I have, it pulls the pickup sensor back and forth within the > trigger wheel of the distributor. > > Paul > > "Paul Brogren" <pibrogren@msn.com> wrote in message > news:bm4bvd$ilsf2$1@ID-190695.news.uni-berlin.de... > > Mike, > > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can > > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction. > > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out. > > > > Thanks, > > Paul > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > > > CTO. > > > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > > > miserably. > > > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > > > rotor more. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, > > but > > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is > > labeled > > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > > vacuum > > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > > significantly. > > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line > from > > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a > > crutial > > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold > > start > > > > up? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Paul > > > > |
Re: Vacuum Advance
It still moves the same Paul.
Bill is thinking along the same lines as I am, the shaft is likely in dire need of oil. I would take out the felt pad for the first oil job, then once it is loosened up, oil the pad and put it back in. Mike Paul Brogren wrote: > > Hi Bill, > If I remember right I have an electronic type not a points type distributor. > I can remember where I read it, but it's in one of my manual's vehicle > specifications charts for my year and engine. > > Thanks, > Paul > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message > news:3F85BE61.943F81@cox.net... > > Hi Paul, > > the "suction thing" should have rotated the plate holding the points > > and condenser. Capping that hose with your tongue should have held it > > there, if the diaphragm is good. The springs on the centrifugal advance > > weights should be strong enough to spring back when released. wiggle the > > shaft to make sure it's not worn out so much that you can open and close > > points. maybe, put a little oil on that felt pad to keep that way. > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > Mike, > > > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can > > > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without > suction. > > > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn > out. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Paul > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance > at > > > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > > > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a > while. > > > > > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > > > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least > the > > > > CTO. > > > > > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get > the > > > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that > way. > > > > > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > > > > miserably. > > > > > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is > at > > > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it > to > > > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > > > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > > > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have > a > > > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat > for > > > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I > can > > > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the > rotor > > > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > > > > rotor more. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile > difference, > > > but > > > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is > > > labeled > > > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > > > vacuum > > > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > > > significantly. > > > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line > from > > > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a > > > crutial > > > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold > > > start > > > > > up? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
It still moves the same Paul.
Bill is thinking along the same lines as I am, the shaft is likely in dire need of oil. I would take out the felt pad for the first oil job, then once it is loosened up, oil the pad and put it back in. Mike Paul Brogren wrote: > > Hi Bill, > If I remember right I have an electronic type not a points type distributor. > I can remember where I read it, but it's in one of my manual's vehicle > specifications charts for my year and engine. > > Thanks, > Paul > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message > news:3F85BE61.943F81@cox.net... > > Hi Paul, > > the "suction thing" should have rotated the plate holding the points > > and condenser. Capping that hose with your tongue should have held it > > there, if the diaphragm is good. The springs on the centrifugal advance > > weights should be strong enough to spring back when released. wiggle the > > shaft to make sure it's not worn out so much that you can open and close > > points. maybe, put a little oil on that felt pad to keep that way. > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > Mike, > > > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can > > > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without > suction. > > > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn > out. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Paul > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance > at > > > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > > > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a > while. > > > > > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > > > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least > the > > > > CTO. > > > > > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get > the > > > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that > way. > > > > > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > > > > miserably. > > > > > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is > at > > > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it > to > > > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > > > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > > > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have > a > > > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat > for > > > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I > can > > > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the > rotor > > > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > > > > rotor more. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile > difference, > > > but > > > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is > > > labeled > > > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > > > vacuum > > > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > > > significantly. > > > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line > from > > > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a > > > crutial > > > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold > > > start > > > > > up? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
It still moves the same Paul.
Bill is thinking along the same lines as I am, the shaft is likely in dire need of oil. I would take out the felt pad for the first oil job, then once it is loosened up, oil the pad and put it back in. Mike Paul Brogren wrote: > > Hi Bill, > If I remember right I have an electronic type not a points type distributor. > I can remember where I read it, but it's in one of my manual's vehicle > specifications charts for my year and engine. > > Thanks, > Paul > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message > news:3F85BE61.943F81@cox.net... > > Hi Paul, > > the "suction thing" should have rotated the plate holding the points > > and condenser. Capping that hose with your tongue should have held it > > there, if the diaphragm is good. The springs on the centrifugal advance > > weights should be strong enough to spring back when released. wiggle the > > shaft to make sure it's not worn out so much that you can open and close > > points. maybe, put a little oil on that felt pad to keep that way. > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > Mike, > > > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can > > > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without > suction. > > > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn > out. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Paul > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance > at > > > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > > > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a > while. > > > > > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > > > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least > the > > > > CTO. > > > > > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get > the > > > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that > way. > > > > > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > > > > miserably. > > > > > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is > at > > > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it > to > > > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > > > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > > > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have > a > > > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat > for > > > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I > can > > > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the > rotor > > > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > > > > rotor more. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile > difference, > > > but > > > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is > > > labeled > > > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > > > vacuum > > > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > > > significantly. > > > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line > from > > > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a > > > crutial > > > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold > > > start > > > > > up? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Correction!
You know, I thought about this rotor moving thing. When suction is applied the advance I have, it pulls the pickup sensor back and forth within the trigger wheel of the distributor. Paul "Paul Brogren" <pibrogren@msn.com> wrote in message news:bm4bvd$ilsf2$1@ID-190695.news.uni-berlin.de... > Mike, > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction. > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out. > > Thanks, > Paul > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > > CTO. > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > > miserably. > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > > rotor more. > > > > Mike > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, > but > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is > labeled > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > vacuum > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > significantly. > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a > crutial > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold > start > > > up? > > > > > > Thanks > > > Paul > > |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Correction!
You know, I thought about this rotor moving thing. When suction is applied the advance I have, it pulls the pickup sensor back and forth within the trigger wheel of the distributor. Paul "Paul Brogren" <pibrogren@msn.com> wrote in message news:bm4bvd$ilsf2$1@ID-190695.news.uni-berlin.de... > Mike, > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction. > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out. > > Thanks, > Paul > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > > CTO. > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > > miserably. > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > > rotor more. > > > > Mike > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, > but > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is > labeled > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > vacuum > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > significantly. > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a > crutial > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold > start > > > up? > > > > > > Thanks > > > Paul > > |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Correction!
You know, I thought about this rotor moving thing. When suction is applied the advance I have, it pulls the pickup sensor back and forth within the trigger wheel of the distributor. Paul "Paul Brogren" <pibrogren@msn.com> wrote in message news:bm4bvd$ilsf2$1@ID-190695.news.uni-berlin.de... > Mike, > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction. > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out. > > Thanks, > Paul > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > > CTO. > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > > miserably. > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > > rotor more. > > > > Mike > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, > but > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is > labeled > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > vacuum > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > significantly. > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a > crutial > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold > start > > > up? > > > > > > Thanks > > > Paul > > |
Re: Vacuum Advance
OK, AMC switch to the magnetic pick up coil in '75, what year is
yours? Anyway, it's important to maintain a proper clearance, so a worn out shaft still need to be replaced. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Paul Brogren wrote: > > Hi Bill, > If I remember right I have an electronic type not a points type distributor. > I can remember where I read it, but it's in one of my manual's vehicle > specifications charts for my year and engine. > > Thanks, > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
OK, AMC switch to the magnetic pick up coil in '75, what year is
yours? Anyway, it's important to maintain a proper clearance, so a worn out shaft still need to be replaced. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Paul Brogren wrote: > > Hi Bill, > If I remember right I have an electronic type not a points type distributor. > I can remember where I read it, but it's in one of my manual's vehicle > specifications charts for my year and engine. > > Thanks, > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
OK, AMC switch to the magnetic pick up coil in '75, what year is
yours? Anyway, it's important to maintain a proper clearance, so a worn out shaft still need to be replaced. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Paul Brogren wrote: > > Hi Bill, > If I remember right I have an electronic type not a points type distributor. > I can remember where I read it, but it's in one of my manual's vehicle > specifications charts for my year and engine. > > Thanks, > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Hi Bill,
If I remember right I have an electronic type not a points type distributor. I can remember where I read it, but it's in one of my manual's vehicle specifications charts for my year and engine. Thanks, Paul "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message news:3F85BE61.943F81@cox.net... > Hi Paul, > the "suction thing" should have rotated the plate holding the points > and condenser. Capping that hose with your tongue should have held it > there, if the diaphragm is good. The springs on the centrifugal advance > weights should be strong enough to spring back when released. wiggle the > shaft to make sure it's not worn out so much that you can open and close > points. maybe, put a little oil on that felt pad to keep that way. > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > Mike, > > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can > > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction. > > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out. > > > > Thanks, > > Paul > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > > > CTO. > > > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > > > miserably. > > > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > > > rotor more. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, > > but > > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is > > labeled > > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > > vacuum > > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > > significantly. > > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from > > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a > > crutial > > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold > > start > > > > up? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Hi Bill,
If I remember right I have an electronic type not a points type distributor. I can remember where I read it, but it's in one of my manual's vehicle specifications charts for my year and engine. Thanks, Paul "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message news:3F85BE61.943F81@cox.net... > Hi Paul, > the "suction thing" should have rotated the plate holding the points > and condenser. Capping that hose with your tongue should have held it > there, if the diaphragm is good. The springs on the centrifugal advance > weights should be strong enough to spring back when released. wiggle the > shaft to make sure it's not worn out so much that you can open and close > points. maybe, put a little oil on that felt pad to keep that way. > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > Mike, > > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can > > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction. > > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out. > > > > Thanks, > > Paul > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > > > CTO. > > > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > > > miserably. > > > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > > > rotor more. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, > > but > > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is > > labeled > > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > > vacuum > > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > > significantly. > > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from > > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a > > crutial > > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold > > start > > > > up? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Hi Bill,
If I remember right I have an electronic type not a points type distributor. I can remember where I read it, but it's in one of my manual's vehicle specifications charts for my year and engine. Thanks, Paul "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message news:3F85BE61.943F81@cox.net... > Hi Paul, > the "suction thing" should have rotated the plate holding the points > and condenser. Capping that hose with your tongue should have held it > there, if the diaphragm is good. The springs on the centrifugal advance > weights should be strong enough to spring back when released. wiggle the > shaft to make sure it's not worn out so much that you can open and close > points. maybe, put a little oil on that felt pad to keep that way. > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > Mike, > > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can > > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction. > > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out. > > > > Thanks, > > Paul > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > > > CTO. > > > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > > > miserably. > > > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > > > rotor more. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, > > but > > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is > > labeled > > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > > vacuum > > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > > significantly. > > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line from > > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a > > crutial > > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold > > start > > > > up? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Paul |
Re: Vacuum Advance
I would tear it down before spending money....
The pivot pins for the weights could even be messed up and seizing, let alone the tube outside the shaft the rotor rides on. I am running the stock distributor and carb with an Accel SuperCoil and my engine rocks. This is the second engine for me and the old one rocked just as well, but leaked like a sieve. I can power up over 50 mph in second and 4th will bury the speedo.... Mike Paul Brogren wrote: > > To Bill and Mike, > Bill, mine was manufactured in Nov. 1975. I remember I looked for a duell > setting for the points, but my manual said it was electronic with no points, > but an electronic pickup sensor. > > Mike, > I oiled that generously late night. I may opt to tear the distributor down > again tonight. Or I may just start the search for a replacement. > How do you feel about those HEI ones with the high power coil included? Or > should I look for a re-manufactured unit? > > Thanks, > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:3F85C636.D65A56D1@sympatico.ca... > > Ok, so the vacuum advance just moves the trigger plate then. I didn't > > open my cap to look, I just saw the plate move from the outside on mine. > > > > You have issues with the weights and rotor. The rotor should be spring > > loaded and pop back into place instantly. I would try a couple drops of > > oil down the hole under the rotor and see if that loosens it up. With > > that seized or sticky, the base timing will never set stable. > > > > Taking the whole works apart can be a pain because that pickup wheel is > > pressed onto the shaft, you need a gear puller to get it off. > > > > I was just looking at my book and it would appear your vacuum advance is > > adjustable too, but no need to mess with that. > > > > Here is one for you too. I see this all the time. The manifold and the > > carb base need to be re-torqued after a couple hundred miles. If/when > > they come loose, it will really drop in power. > > > > Mike > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > Correction! > > > You know, I thought about this rotor moving thing. When suction is > applied > > > the advance I have, it pulls the pickup sensor back and forth within the > > > trigger wheel of the distributor. > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > "Paul Brogren" <pibrogren@msn.com> wrote in message > > > news:bm4bvd$ilsf2$1@ID-190695.news.uni-berlin.de... > > > > Mike, > > > > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I > can > > > > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without > suction. > > > > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn > out. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > > > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance > at > > > > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > > > > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are > thinking. > > > > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a > while. > > > > > > > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO > and > > > > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least > the > > > > > CTO. > > > > > > > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > > > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > > > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > > > > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get > the > > > > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that > way. > > > > > > > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > > > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it > fails > > > > > miserably. > > > > > > > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is > at > > > > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull > it to > > > > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > > > > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull > all > > > > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the > pull > > > > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > > > > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just > have a > > > > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat > for > > > > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > > > > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I > can > > > > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > > > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > > > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the > rotor > > > > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist > the > > > > > rotor more. > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile > difference, > > > > but > > > > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. > is > > > > labeled > > > > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > > > > vacuum > > > > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > > > > significantly. > > > > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum > line > > > from > > > > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve > a > > > > crutial > > > > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a > cold > > > > start > > > > > > up? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > |
Re: Vacuum Advance
I would tear it down before spending money....
The pivot pins for the weights could even be messed up and seizing, let alone the tube outside the shaft the rotor rides on. I am running the stock distributor and carb with an Accel SuperCoil and my engine rocks. This is the second engine for me and the old one rocked just as well, but leaked like a sieve. I can power up over 50 mph in second and 4th will bury the speedo.... Mike Paul Brogren wrote: > > To Bill and Mike, > Bill, mine was manufactured in Nov. 1975. I remember I looked for a duell > setting for the points, but my manual said it was electronic with no points, > but an electronic pickup sensor. > > Mike, > I oiled that generously late night. I may opt to tear the distributor down > again tonight. Or I may just start the search for a replacement. > How do you feel about those HEI ones with the high power coil included? Or > should I look for a re-manufactured unit? > > Thanks, > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:3F85C636.D65A56D1@sympatico.ca... > > Ok, so the vacuum advance just moves the trigger plate then. I didn't > > open my cap to look, I just saw the plate move from the outside on mine. > > > > You have issues with the weights and rotor. The rotor should be spring > > loaded and pop back into place instantly. I would try a couple drops of > > oil down the hole under the rotor and see if that loosens it up. With > > that seized or sticky, the base timing will never set stable. > > > > Taking the whole works apart can be a pain because that pickup wheel is > > pressed onto the shaft, you need a gear puller to get it off. > > > > I was just looking at my book and it would appear your vacuum advance is > > adjustable too, but no need to mess with that. > > > > Here is one for you too. I see this all the time. The manifold and the > > carb base need to be re-torqued after a couple hundred miles. If/when > > they come loose, it will really drop in power. > > > > Mike > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > Correction! > > > You know, I thought about this rotor moving thing. When suction is > applied > > > the advance I have, it pulls the pickup sensor back and forth within the > > > trigger wheel of the distributor. > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > "Paul Brogren" <pibrogren@msn.com> wrote in message > > > news:bm4bvd$ilsf2$1@ID-190695.news.uni-berlin.de... > > > > Mike, > > > > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I > can > > > > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without > suction. > > > > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn > out. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > > > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance > at > > > > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > > > > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are > thinking. > > > > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a > while. > > > > > > > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO > and > > > > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least > the > > > > > CTO. > > > > > > > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > > > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > > > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > > > > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get > the > > > > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that > way. > > > > > > > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > > > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it > fails > > > > > miserably. > > > > > > > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is > at > > > > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull > it to > > > > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > > > > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull > all > > > > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the > pull > > > > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > > > > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just > have a > > > > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat > for > > > > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > > > > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I > can > > > > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > > > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > > > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the > rotor > > > > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist > the > > > > > rotor more. > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile > difference, > > > > but > > > > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. > is > > > > labeled > > > > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > > > > vacuum > > > > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > > > > significantly. > > > > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum > line > > > from > > > > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve > a > > > > crutial > > > > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a > cold > > > > start > > > > > > up? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > |
Re: Vacuum Advance
I would tear it down before spending money....
The pivot pins for the weights could even be messed up and seizing, let alone the tube outside the shaft the rotor rides on. I am running the stock distributor and carb with an Accel SuperCoil and my engine rocks. This is the second engine for me and the old one rocked just as well, but leaked like a sieve. I can power up over 50 mph in second and 4th will bury the speedo.... Mike Paul Brogren wrote: > > To Bill and Mike, > Bill, mine was manufactured in Nov. 1975. I remember I looked for a duell > setting for the points, but my manual said it was electronic with no points, > but an electronic pickup sensor. > > Mike, > I oiled that generously late night. I may opt to tear the distributor down > again tonight. Or I may just start the search for a replacement. > How do you feel about those HEI ones with the high power coil included? Or > should I look for a re-manufactured unit? > > Thanks, > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:3F85C636.D65A56D1@sympatico.ca... > > Ok, so the vacuum advance just moves the trigger plate then. I didn't > > open my cap to look, I just saw the plate move from the outside on mine. > > > > You have issues with the weights and rotor. The rotor should be spring > > loaded and pop back into place instantly. I would try a couple drops of > > oil down the hole under the rotor and see if that loosens it up. With > > that seized or sticky, the base timing will never set stable. > > > > Taking the whole works apart can be a pain because that pickup wheel is > > pressed onto the shaft, you need a gear puller to get it off. > > > > I was just looking at my book and it would appear your vacuum advance is > > adjustable too, but no need to mess with that. > > > > Here is one for you too. I see this all the time. The manifold and the > > carb base need to be re-torqued after a couple hundred miles. If/when > > they come loose, it will really drop in power. > > > > Mike > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > Correction! > > > You know, I thought about this rotor moving thing. When suction is > applied > > > the advance I have, it pulls the pickup sensor back and forth within the > > > trigger wheel of the distributor. > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > "Paul Brogren" <pibrogren@msn.com> wrote in message > > > news:bm4bvd$ilsf2$1@ID-190695.news.uni-berlin.de... > > > > Mike, > > > > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I > can > > > > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without > suction. > > > > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn > out. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > > > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance > at > > > > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > > > > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are > thinking. > > > > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a > while. > > > > > > > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO > and > > > > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least > the > > > > > CTO. > > > > > > > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > > > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > > > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > > > > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get > the > > > > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that > way. > > > > > > > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > > > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it > fails > > > > > miserably. > > > > > > > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is > at > > > > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull > it to > > > > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > > > > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull > all > > > > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the > pull > > > > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > > > > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just > have a > > > > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat > for > > > > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > > > > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I > can > > > > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > > > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > > > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the > rotor > > > > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist > the > > > > > rotor more. > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile > difference, > > > > but > > > > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. > is > > > > labeled > > > > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > > > > vacuum > > > > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > > > > significantly. > > > > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum > line > > > from > > > > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve > a > > > > crutial > > > > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a > cold > > > > start > > > > > > up? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > |
Re: Vacuum Advance
To Bill and Mike,
Bill, mine was manufactured in Nov. 1975. I remember I looked for a duell setting for the points, but my manual said it was electronic with no points, but an electronic pickup sensor. Mike, I oiled that generously late night. I may opt to tear the distributor down again tonight. Or I may just start the search for a replacement. How do you feel about those HEI ones with the high power coil included? Or should I look for a re-manufactured unit? Thanks, "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:3F85C636.D65A56D1@sympatico.ca... > Ok, so the vacuum advance just moves the trigger plate then. I didn't > open my cap to look, I just saw the plate move from the outside on mine. > > You have issues with the weights and rotor. The rotor should be spring > loaded and pop back into place instantly. I would try a couple drops of > oil down the hole under the rotor and see if that loosens it up. With > that seized or sticky, the base timing will never set stable. > > Taking the whole works apart can be a pain because that pickup wheel is > pressed onto the shaft, you need a gear puller to get it off. > > I was just looking at my book and it would appear your vacuum advance is > adjustable too, but no need to mess with that. > > Here is one for you too. I see this all the time. The manifold and the > carb base need to be re-torqued after a couple hundred miles. If/when > they come loose, it will really drop in power. > > Mike > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > Correction! > > You know, I thought about this rotor moving thing. When suction is applied > > the advance I have, it pulls the pickup sensor back and forth within the > > trigger wheel of the distributor. > > > > Paul > > > > "Paul Brogren" <pibrogren@msn.com> wrote in message > > news:bm4bvd$ilsf2$1@ID-190695.news.uni-berlin.de... > > > Mike, > > > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can > > > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction. > > > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Paul > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > > > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > > > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > > > > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > > > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > > > > CTO. > > > > > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > > > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > > > > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > > > > miserably. > > > > > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > > > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > > > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > > > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > > > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > > > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > > > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > > > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > > > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > > > > rotor more. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, > > > but > > > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is > > > labeled > > > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > > > vacuum > > > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > > > significantly. > > > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line > > from > > > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a > > > crutial > > > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold > > > start > > > > > up? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Paul > > > > > > |
Re: Vacuum Advance
To Bill and Mike,
Bill, mine was manufactured in Nov. 1975. I remember I looked for a duell setting for the points, but my manual said it was electronic with no points, but an electronic pickup sensor. Mike, I oiled that generously late night. I may opt to tear the distributor down again tonight. Or I may just start the search for a replacement. How do you feel about those HEI ones with the high power coil included? Or should I look for a re-manufactured unit? Thanks, "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:3F85C636.D65A56D1@sympatico.ca... > Ok, so the vacuum advance just moves the trigger plate then. I didn't > open my cap to look, I just saw the plate move from the outside on mine. > > You have issues with the weights and rotor. The rotor should be spring > loaded and pop back into place instantly. I would try a couple drops of > oil down the hole under the rotor and see if that loosens it up. With > that seized or sticky, the base timing will never set stable. > > Taking the whole works apart can be a pain because that pickup wheel is > pressed onto the shaft, you need a gear puller to get it off. > > I was just looking at my book and it would appear your vacuum advance is > adjustable too, but no need to mess with that. > > Here is one for you too. I see this all the time. The manifold and the > carb base need to be re-torqued after a couple hundred miles. If/when > they come loose, it will really drop in power. > > Mike > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > Correction! > > You know, I thought about this rotor moving thing. When suction is applied > > the advance I have, it pulls the pickup sensor back and forth within the > > trigger wheel of the distributor. > > > > Paul > > > > "Paul Brogren" <pibrogren@msn.com> wrote in message > > news:bm4bvd$ilsf2$1@ID-190695.news.uni-berlin.de... > > > Mike, > > > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can > > > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction. > > > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Paul > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > > > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > > > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > > > > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > > > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > > > > CTO. > > > > > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > > > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > > > > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > > > > miserably. > > > > > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > > > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > > > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > > > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > > > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > > > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > > > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > > > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > > > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > > > > rotor more. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, > > > but > > > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is > > > labeled > > > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > > > vacuum > > > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > > > significantly. > > > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line > > from > > > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a > > > crutial > > > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold > > > start > > > > > up? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Paul > > > > > > |
Re: Vacuum Advance
To Bill and Mike,
Bill, mine was manufactured in Nov. 1975. I remember I looked for a duell setting for the points, but my manual said it was electronic with no points, but an electronic pickup sensor. Mike, I oiled that generously late night. I may opt to tear the distributor down again tonight. Or I may just start the search for a replacement. How do you feel about those HEI ones with the high power coil included? Or should I look for a re-manufactured unit? Thanks, "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:3F85C636.D65A56D1@sympatico.ca... > Ok, so the vacuum advance just moves the trigger plate then. I didn't > open my cap to look, I just saw the plate move from the outside on mine. > > You have issues with the weights and rotor. The rotor should be spring > loaded and pop back into place instantly. I would try a couple drops of > oil down the hole under the rotor and see if that loosens it up. With > that seized or sticky, the base timing will never set stable. > > Taking the whole works apart can be a pain because that pickup wheel is > pressed onto the shaft, you need a gear puller to get it off. > > I was just looking at my book and it would appear your vacuum advance is > adjustable too, but no need to mess with that. > > Here is one for you too. I see this all the time. The manifold and the > carb base need to be re-torqued after a couple hundred miles. If/when > they come loose, it will really drop in power. > > Mike > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > Correction! > > You know, I thought about this rotor moving thing. When suction is applied > > the advance I have, it pulls the pickup sensor back and forth within the > > trigger wheel of the distributor. > > > > Paul > > > > "Paul Brogren" <pibrogren@msn.com> wrote in message > > news:bm4bvd$ilsf2$1@ID-190695.news.uni-berlin.de... > > > Mike, > > > I did the suction thing to see if the rotor moved. It does not. I can > > > physically move it, but it stays where I put it. With or without suction. > > > Does this sound like the distributor weights / springs are about worn out. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Paul > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > news:3F859210.563965F1@sympatico.ca... > > > > Some engines were tuned for a manifold vacuum that goes full advance at > > > > idle, some are tuned for a ported vacuum. > > > > > > > > Some have both and the CTO in there to change it as you are thinking. > > > > They were getting 'creative' with the emissions junk there for a while. > > > > > > > > What are you doing about the EGR valve? That really needs the CTO and > > > > the thermostat inside the air filter to work properly, but at least the > > > > CTO. > > > > > > > > It will run like a pig cold if the EGR is kicking in and it will not > > > > have the same top power with the EGR disconnected. They made a > > > > different cam for the engine without the EGR. > > > > > > > > When I killed the computer in mine I went to a ported vacuum. I get the > > > > best performance like that and the emissions sniffer likes it that way. > > > > > > > > I can get 15-17 ppm HC's at idle tuned that way, If I tune it for > > > > manifold vacuum at idle my HC's jump up to 1585 ppm or so and it fails > > > > miserably. > > > > > > > > There is no difference at 2500 rpm on the dyno though, the timing is at > > > > full advance there no matter which vacuum I use. The weights pull it to > > > > full advance around 2300 rpm I believe. > > > > > > > > The difference is in the acceleration power. I get a smooth pull all > > > > the way up to 4500 rpm with ported, it has big dead spots in the pull > > > > with manifold vacuum. > > > > > > > > I am running the Carter BBD 2 bbl on my 78 engine though and just have a > > > > straight pipe with a Dynomax high flow muffler. I don't need a Cat for > > > > emissions on my 'utility' vehicle. > > > > > > > > So I just went out and sucked on my vacuum line to the advance and I can > > > > easily suck it to full advance. Didn't need to put the light on it, > > > > when I have it sucked, my fingers cannot move the advance lever any > > > > more. I guess you could remove your distributor cap and watch the rotor > > > > while sucking. Then when it is sucked hard, see if you can twist the > > > > rotor more. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > > > I drove it in this morning. There may have been a subtile difference, > > > but > > > > > not much. One thing I forgot to mention last night was that MAN. is > > > labeled > > > > > above the nipple on the vac. advance. Is this to signify that the > > > vacuum > > > > > line needs to be connected to manifold vacuum? > > > > > > > > > > I did connect it to the manifold port and the timing jump up > > > significantly. > > > > > I have not driven it this way though. > > > > > > > > > > The other thing I failed to mention was I don't have the CTO valve > > > > > connected. The CTO I believe changes the distributor's vacuum line > > from > > > > > manifold to carb depending on engine temperature. Is a CTO valve a > > > crutial > > > > > component or does it just enable the engine to run better at a cold > > > start > > > > > up? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Paul > > > > > > |
Re: Vacuum Advance
The High Energy Ignition is a good idea:
http://www.geocities.com/jeeperaz/hei.htm God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Paul Brogren wrote: > > To Bill and Mike, > Bill, mine was manufactured in Nov. 1975. I remember I looked for a duell > setting for the points, but my manual said it was electronic with no points, > but an electronic pickup sensor. > > Mike, > I oiled that generously late night. I may opt to tear the distributor down > again tonight. Or I may just start the search for a replacement. > How do you feel about those HEI ones with the high power coil included? Or > should I look for a re-manufactured unit? > > Thanks, |
Re: Vacuum Advance
The High Energy Ignition is a good idea:
http://www.geocities.com/jeeperaz/hei.htm God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Paul Brogren wrote: > > To Bill and Mike, > Bill, mine was manufactured in Nov. 1975. I remember I looked for a duell > setting for the points, but my manual said it was electronic with no points, > but an electronic pickup sensor. > > Mike, > I oiled that generously late night. I may opt to tear the distributor down > again tonight. Or I may just start the search for a replacement. > How do you feel about those HEI ones with the high power coil included? Or > should I look for a re-manufactured unit? > > Thanks, |
Re: Vacuum Advance
The High Energy Ignition is a good idea:
http://www.geocities.com/jeeperaz/hei.htm God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Paul Brogren wrote: > > To Bill and Mike, > Bill, mine was manufactured in Nov. 1975. I remember I looked for a duell > setting for the points, but my manual said it was electronic with no points, > but an electronic pickup sensor. > > Mike, > I oiled that generously late night. I may opt to tear the distributor down > again tonight. Or I may just start the search for a replacement. > How do you feel about those HEI ones with the high power coil included? Or > should I look for a re-manufactured unit? > > Thanks, |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Great info Guys!! Unfortunately, Bill I use this almost as an everyday
driver. I don't have many pick and pulls here in the Vail / Eagle county area. The money might be steep, but how do you feel about the aftermarket HEI stuff through 4wd.com? Thanks again, Paul -- Thanks Always !!! Paul '75 CJ5 258 Vail, CO. "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message news:3F85F0E1.40483025@cox.net... > The High Energy Ignition is a good idea: > http://www.geocities.com/jeeperaz/hei.htm > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > To Bill and Mike, > > Bill, mine was manufactured in Nov. 1975. I remember I looked for a duell > > setting for the points, but my manual said it was electronic with no points, > > but an electronic pickup sensor. > > > > Mike, > > I oiled that generously late night. I may opt to tear the distributor down > > again tonight. Or I may just start the search for a replacement. > > How do you feel about those HEI ones with the high power coil included? Or > > should I look for a re-manufactured unit? > > > > Thanks, |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Great info Guys!! Unfortunately, Bill I use this almost as an everyday
driver. I don't have many pick and pulls here in the Vail / Eagle county area. The money might be steep, but how do you feel about the aftermarket HEI stuff through 4wd.com? Thanks again, Paul -- Thanks Always !!! Paul '75 CJ5 258 Vail, CO. "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message news:3F85F0E1.40483025@cox.net... > The High Energy Ignition is a good idea: > http://www.geocities.com/jeeperaz/hei.htm > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > To Bill and Mike, > > Bill, mine was manufactured in Nov. 1975. I remember I looked for a duell > > setting for the points, but my manual said it was electronic with no points, > > but an electronic pickup sensor. > > > > Mike, > > I oiled that generously late night. I may opt to tear the distributor down > > again tonight. Or I may just start the search for a replacement. > > How do you feel about those HEI ones with the high power coil included? Or > > should I look for a re-manufactured unit? > > > > Thanks, |
Re: Vacuum Advance
Great info Guys!! Unfortunately, Bill I use this almost as an everyday
driver. I don't have many pick and pulls here in the Vail / Eagle county area. The money might be steep, but how do you feel about the aftermarket HEI stuff through 4wd.com? Thanks again, Paul -- Thanks Always !!! Paul '75 CJ5 258 Vail, CO. "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message news:3F85F0E1.40483025@cox.net... > The High Energy Ignition is a good idea: > http://www.geocities.com/jeeperaz/hei.htm > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > Paul Brogren wrote: > > > > To Bill and Mike, > > Bill, mine was manufactured in Nov. 1975. I remember I looked for a duell > > setting for the points, but my manual said it was electronic with no points, > > but an electronic pickup sensor. > > > > Mike, > > I oiled that generously late night. I may opt to tear the distributor down > > again tonight. Or I may just start the search for a replacement. > > How do you feel about those HEI ones with the high power coil included? Or > > should I look for a re-manufactured unit? > > > > Thanks, |
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