Re: Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! __________==___ utivro
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! __________==___utivro
David Gravereaux wrote:
> Brian Talley <btalley@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>3) We know Hussein hated the U.S., that he had ties with terrorists
>>in general and al Qaeda in particular.
>>
>>Do the math.
>
>
> Untrue. No ties to Bin Ladden were found.
First, bin Laden is not all of al Qaeda; the group is somewhat
larger than one man. Second, bin Laden most certainly did try
to work with Iraqi officials. Third, al Zawahiri, bin Laden's
right-hand man, maintained a residence in Baghdad. Fourth, Iraq
gave safe harbor to many terrorists and helped fund and tain
them.
> All in all the specifics for WMDs that Bush told the public were false.
> He has yet to make good on those mistakes.
None of what President Bush told the public re WMDs in Iraq
was false given the intelligence he had from the CIA, U.N.,
European, Russian and ME sources.
Hate him if you like, but try to do it for valid reasons.
> Brian Talley <btalley@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>3) We know Hussein hated the U.S., that he had ties with terrorists
>>in general and al Qaeda in particular.
>>
>>Do the math.
>
>
> Untrue. No ties to Bin Ladden were found.
First, bin Laden is not all of al Qaeda; the group is somewhat
larger than one man. Second, bin Laden most certainly did try
to work with Iraqi officials. Third, al Zawahiri, bin Laden's
right-hand man, maintained a residence in Baghdad. Fourth, Iraq
gave safe harbor to many terrorists and helped fund and tain
them.
> All in all the specifics for WMDs that Bush told the public were false.
> He has yet to make good on those mistakes.
None of what President Bush told the public re WMDs in Iraq
was false given the intelligence he had from the CIA, U.N.,
European, Russian and ME sources.
Hate him if you like, but try to do it for valid reasons.
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! __________==___ utivro
Brian Talley <btalley@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>None of what President Bush told the public re WMDs in Iraq
>was false given the intelligence he had from the CIA, U.N.,
>European, Russian and ME sources.
Oh like we shouldn't blame him for believing his faulty intelligence?
The buck stops with him. Read Section 10.3:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec10.pdf
"NO TIES TO IRAQ!"
>Hate him if you like, but try to do it for valid reasons.
#1 Patriot Act removes civil rights.
Good call on the nuke stuff, I hadn't read that. Will look into it.
--
David Gravereaux <davygrvy@pobox.com>
[species: human; planet: earth,milkyway(western spiral arm),alpha sector]
>None of what President Bush told the public re WMDs in Iraq
>was false given the intelligence he had from the CIA, U.N.,
>European, Russian and ME sources.
Oh like we shouldn't blame him for believing his faulty intelligence?
The buck stops with him. Read Section 10.3:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec10.pdf
"NO TIES TO IRAQ!"
>Hate him if you like, but try to do it for valid reasons.
#1 Patriot Act removes civil rights.
Good call on the nuke stuff, I hadn't read that. Will look into it.
--
David Gravereaux <davygrvy@pobox.com>
[species: human; planet: earth,milkyway(western spiral arm),alpha sector]
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! __________==___ utivro
Brian Talley <btalley@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>None of what President Bush told the public re WMDs in Iraq
>was false given the intelligence he had from the CIA, U.N.,
>European, Russian and ME sources.
Oh like we shouldn't blame him for believing his faulty intelligence?
The buck stops with him. Read Section 10.3:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec10.pdf
"NO TIES TO IRAQ!"
>Hate him if you like, but try to do it for valid reasons.
#1 Patriot Act removes civil rights.
Good call on the nuke stuff, I hadn't read that. Will look into it.
--
David Gravereaux <davygrvy@pobox.com>
[species: human; planet: earth,milkyway(western spiral arm),alpha sector]
>None of what President Bush told the public re WMDs in Iraq
>was false given the intelligence he had from the CIA, U.N.,
>European, Russian and ME sources.
Oh like we shouldn't blame him for believing his faulty intelligence?
The buck stops with him. Read Section 10.3:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec10.pdf
"NO TIES TO IRAQ!"
>Hate him if you like, but try to do it for valid reasons.
#1 Patriot Act removes civil rights.
Good call on the nuke stuff, I hadn't read that. Will look into it.
--
David Gravereaux <davygrvy@pobox.com>
[species: human; planet: earth,milkyway(western spiral arm),alpha sector]
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! __________==___ utivro
I'm pretty much with you Brian. What I don't understand is why people twist the facts around just because they don't
like that Iraq was invaded. President Bush didn't lie about anything. The idea that he did is just bizarre. And what
about the dozens of other people (both here and in other countries) that had to be involved in order to make the war in
Iraq happen? Bush didn't do this on his own. It might not even have been his idea. There were obviously a lot of
other people who thought it was a good idea to stop Saddam. I happen to think that they went about it all the wrong way
but the idea certainly had merit. The fact that we haven't found all of the weapons that he built is rather irrelevant.
They didn't just disappear. (Well, duh...) If you send a bunch of your soldiers out in to the desert to bury stuff and
then kill them all when they get back...well...we might never find any of it. We found nearly 30 fighter planes buried
in the desert that no one seemed to remember anything about. (...tail fin sticking up through the sand...gee, what's
this?)
Oh, well. I'm sure we'll all get over it.
>>>Mike
like that Iraq was invaded. President Bush didn't lie about anything. The idea that he did is just bizarre. And what
about the dozens of other people (both here and in other countries) that had to be involved in order to make the war in
Iraq happen? Bush didn't do this on his own. It might not even have been his idea. There were obviously a lot of
other people who thought it was a good idea to stop Saddam. I happen to think that they went about it all the wrong way
but the idea certainly had merit. The fact that we haven't found all of the weapons that he built is rather irrelevant.
They didn't just disappear. (Well, duh...) If you send a bunch of your soldiers out in to the desert to bury stuff and
then kill them all when they get back...well...we might never find any of it. We found nearly 30 fighter planes buried
in the desert that no one seemed to remember anything about. (...tail fin sticking up through the sand...gee, what's
this?)
Oh, well. I'm sure we'll all get over it.
>>>Mike
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! __________==___ utivro
I'm pretty much with you Brian. What I don't understand is why people twist the facts around just because they don't
like that Iraq was invaded. President Bush didn't lie about anything. The idea that he did is just bizarre. And what
about the dozens of other people (both here and in other countries) that had to be involved in order to make the war in
Iraq happen? Bush didn't do this on his own. It might not even have been his idea. There were obviously a lot of
other people who thought it was a good idea to stop Saddam. I happen to think that they went about it all the wrong way
but the idea certainly had merit. The fact that we haven't found all of the weapons that he built is rather irrelevant.
They didn't just disappear. (Well, duh...) If you send a bunch of your soldiers out in to the desert to bury stuff and
then kill them all when they get back...well...we might never find any of it. We found nearly 30 fighter planes buried
in the desert that no one seemed to remember anything about. (...tail fin sticking up through the sand...gee, what's
this?)
Oh, well. I'm sure we'll all get over it.
>>>Mike
like that Iraq was invaded. President Bush didn't lie about anything. The idea that he did is just bizarre. And what
about the dozens of other people (both here and in other countries) that had to be involved in order to make the war in
Iraq happen? Bush didn't do this on his own. It might not even have been his idea. There were obviously a lot of
other people who thought it was a good idea to stop Saddam. I happen to think that they went about it all the wrong way
but the idea certainly had merit. The fact that we haven't found all of the weapons that he built is rather irrelevant.
They didn't just disappear. (Well, duh...) If you send a bunch of your soldiers out in to the desert to bury stuff and
then kill them all when they get back...well...we might never find any of it. We found nearly 30 fighter planes buried
in the desert that no one seemed to remember anything about. (...tail fin sticking up through the sand...gee, what's
this?)
Oh, well. I'm sure we'll all get over it.
>>>Mike
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! __________==___ utivro
"Mike64Bug" <mfkoch REMOVE@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I'm pretty much with you Brian. What I don't understand is why people twist the facts around just because they don't
>like that Iraq was invaded. President Bush didn't lie about anything. The idea that he did is just bizarre. And what
>about the dozens of other people (both here and in other countries) that had to be involved in order to make the war in
>Iraq happen? Bush didn't do this on his own. It might not even have been his idea. There were obviously a lot of
>other people who thought it was a good idea to stop Saddam. I happen to think that they went about it all the wrong way
>but the idea certainly had merit. The fact that we haven't found all of the weapons that he built is rather irrelevant.
>They didn't just disappear. (Well, duh...) If you send a bunch of your soldiers out in to the desert to bury stuff and
>then kill them all when they get back...well...we might never find any of it. We found nearly 30 fighter planes buried
>in the desert that no one seemed to remember anything about. (...tail fin sticking up through the sand...gee, what's
>this?)
>Oh, well. I'm sure we'll all get over it.
>
>>>>Mike
>
Let's not forget the troop count blunder, too. When top military experts
say 200K to secure the nation, and Rumsfeld is stiff on 45K, look at the
mess the military is in now. Thanks Commander in Chief.
--
David Gravereaux <davygrvy@pobox.com>
[species: human; planet: earth,milkyway(western spiral arm),alpha sector]
>I'm pretty much with you Brian. What I don't understand is why people twist the facts around just because they don't
>like that Iraq was invaded. President Bush didn't lie about anything. The idea that he did is just bizarre. And what
>about the dozens of other people (both here and in other countries) that had to be involved in order to make the war in
>Iraq happen? Bush didn't do this on his own. It might not even have been his idea. There were obviously a lot of
>other people who thought it was a good idea to stop Saddam. I happen to think that they went about it all the wrong way
>but the idea certainly had merit. The fact that we haven't found all of the weapons that he built is rather irrelevant.
>They didn't just disappear. (Well, duh...) If you send a bunch of your soldiers out in to the desert to bury stuff and
>then kill them all when they get back...well...we might never find any of it. We found nearly 30 fighter planes buried
>in the desert that no one seemed to remember anything about. (...tail fin sticking up through the sand...gee, what's
>this?)
>Oh, well. I'm sure we'll all get over it.
>
>>>>Mike
>
Let's not forget the troop count blunder, too. When top military experts
say 200K to secure the nation, and Rumsfeld is stiff on 45K, look at the
mess the military is in now. Thanks Commander in Chief.
--
David Gravereaux <davygrvy@pobox.com>
[species: human; planet: earth,milkyway(western spiral arm),alpha sector]
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! __________==___ utivro
"Mike64Bug" <mfkoch REMOVE@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I'm pretty much with you Brian. What I don't understand is why people twist the facts around just because they don't
>like that Iraq was invaded. President Bush didn't lie about anything. The idea that he did is just bizarre. And what
>about the dozens of other people (both here and in other countries) that had to be involved in order to make the war in
>Iraq happen? Bush didn't do this on his own. It might not even have been his idea. There were obviously a lot of
>other people who thought it was a good idea to stop Saddam. I happen to think that they went about it all the wrong way
>but the idea certainly had merit. The fact that we haven't found all of the weapons that he built is rather irrelevant.
>They didn't just disappear. (Well, duh...) If you send a bunch of your soldiers out in to the desert to bury stuff and
>then kill them all when they get back...well...we might never find any of it. We found nearly 30 fighter planes buried
>in the desert that no one seemed to remember anything about. (...tail fin sticking up through the sand...gee, what's
>this?)
>Oh, well. I'm sure we'll all get over it.
>
>>>>Mike
>
Let's not forget the troop count blunder, too. When top military experts
say 200K to secure the nation, and Rumsfeld is stiff on 45K, look at the
mess the military is in now. Thanks Commander in Chief.
--
David Gravereaux <davygrvy@pobox.com>
[species: human; planet: earth,milkyway(western spiral arm),alpha sector]
>I'm pretty much with you Brian. What I don't understand is why people twist the facts around just because they don't
>like that Iraq was invaded. President Bush didn't lie about anything. The idea that he did is just bizarre. And what
>about the dozens of other people (both here and in other countries) that had to be involved in order to make the war in
>Iraq happen? Bush didn't do this on his own. It might not even have been his idea. There were obviously a lot of
>other people who thought it was a good idea to stop Saddam. I happen to think that they went about it all the wrong way
>but the idea certainly had merit. The fact that we haven't found all of the weapons that he built is rather irrelevant.
>They didn't just disappear. (Well, duh...) If you send a bunch of your soldiers out in to the desert to bury stuff and
>then kill them all when they get back...well...we might never find any of it. We found nearly 30 fighter planes buried
>in the desert that no one seemed to remember anything about. (...tail fin sticking up through the sand...gee, what's
>this?)
>Oh, well. I'm sure we'll all get over it.
>
>>>>Mike
>
Let's not forget the troop count blunder, too. When top military experts
say 200K to secure the nation, and Rumsfeld is stiff on 45K, look at the
mess the military is in now. Thanks Commander in Chief.
--
David Gravereaux <davygrvy@pobox.com>
[species: human; planet: earth,milkyway(western spiral arm),alpha sector]
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! __________==___utivro
David Gravereaux wrote:
> Brian Talley <btalley@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>None of what President Bush told the public re WMDs in Iraq
>>was false given the intelligence he had from the CIA, U.N.,
>>European, Russian and ME sources.
>
>
> Oh like we shouldn't blame him for believing his faulty intelligence?
Well, no, we shouldn't.
Take into consideration the efforts of Clinton to decrease
funding for intelligence-gathering agencies. Also, consider the
efforts by Jamie Gorelick (who was also on the 9/11 Commission)
who mandated that the FBI and CIA could not, legally, share
information. I don't think it's reasonable to expect Bush to
get US intelligence back on its feet in the few months he was
in office before 9/11.
> The buck stops with him. Read Section 10.3:
> http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec10.pdf
>
> "NO TIES TO IRAQ!"
The 9/11 Commission details ties between Iraq and terrorists and
terrorism.
>>Hate him if you like, but try to do it for valid reasons.
>
> #1 Patriot Act removes civil rights.
I agree the Patriot Act is a bit on the draconian side in some
areas. But contrast it with actions taken during WWII when German
and Japanese Americans were locked up and their properties siezed
and sold off. Now THAT is bad news!
Precious few people whined, then, but I digress.
To combat a foe who can easily blend in and who means to kill
civilians, one must take extraordinary measures. I'm not saying I
like all of the Patriot Act, but I'm not saying that it is not
necessary.
> Good call on the nuke stuff, I hadn't read that. Will look into it.
Cool.
Brian
> Brian Talley <btalley@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>None of what President Bush told the public re WMDs in Iraq
>>was false given the intelligence he had from the CIA, U.N.,
>>European, Russian and ME sources.
>
>
> Oh like we shouldn't blame him for believing his faulty intelligence?
Well, no, we shouldn't.
Take into consideration the efforts of Clinton to decrease
funding for intelligence-gathering agencies. Also, consider the
efforts by Jamie Gorelick (who was also on the 9/11 Commission)
who mandated that the FBI and CIA could not, legally, share
information. I don't think it's reasonable to expect Bush to
get US intelligence back on its feet in the few months he was
in office before 9/11.
> The buck stops with him. Read Section 10.3:
> http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec10.pdf
>
> "NO TIES TO IRAQ!"
The 9/11 Commission details ties between Iraq and terrorists and
terrorism.
>>Hate him if you like, but try to do it for valid reasons.
>
> #1 Patriot Act removes civil rights.
I agree the Patriot Act is a bit on the draconian side in some
areas. But contrast it with actions taken during WWII when German
and Japanese Americans were locked up and their properties siezed
and sold off. Now THAT is bad news!
Precious few people whined, then, but I digress.
To combat a foe who can easily blend in and who means to kill
civilians, one must take extraordinary measures. I'm not saying I
like all of the Patriot Act, but I'm not saying that it is not
necessary.
> Good call on the nuke stuff, I hadn't read that. Will look into it.
Cool.
Brian
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! __________==___utivro
David Gravereaux wrote:
> Brian Talley <btalley@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>None of what President Bush told the public re WMDs in Iraq
>>was false given the intelligence he had from the CIA, U.N.,
>>European, Russian and ME sources.
>
>
> Oh like we shouldn't blame him for believing his faulty intelligence?
Well, no, we shouldn't.
Take into consideration the efforts of Clinton to decrease
funding for intelligence-gathering agencies. Also, consider the
efforts by Jamie Gorelick (who was also on the 9/11 Commission)
who mandated that the FBI and CIA could not, legally, share
information. I don't think it's reasonable to expect Bush to
get US intelligence back on its feet in the few months he was
in office before 9/11.
> The buck stops with him. Read Section 10.3:
> http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec10.pdf
>
> "NO TIES TO IRAQ!"
The 9/11 Commission details ties between Iraq and terrorists and
terrorism.
>>Hate him if you like, but try to do it for valid reasons.
>
> #1 Patriot Act removes civil rights.
I agree the Patriot Act is a bit on the draconian side in some
areas. But contrast it with actions taken during WWII when German
and Japanese Americans were locked up and their properties siezed
and sold off. Now THAT is bad news!
Precious few people whined, then, but I digress.
To combat a foe who can easily blend in and who means to kill
civilians, one must take extraordinary measures. I'm not saying I
like all of the Patriot Act, but I'm not saying that it is not
necessary.
> Good call on the nuke stuff, I hadn't read that. Will look into it.
Cool.
Brian
> Brian Talley <btalley@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>None of what President Bush told the public re WMDs in Iraq
>>was false given the intelligence he had from the CIA, U.N.,
>>European, Russian and ME sources.
>
>
> Oh like we shouldn't blame him for believing his faulty intelligence?
Well, no, we shouldn't.
Take into consideration the efforts of Clinton to decrease
funding for intelligence-gathering agencies. Also, consider the
efforts by Jamie Gorelick (who was also on the 9/11 Commission)
who mandated that the FBI and CIA could not, legally, share
information. I don't think it's reasonable to expect Bush to
get US intelligence back on its feet in the few months he was
in office before 9/11.
> The buck stops with him. Read Section 10.3:
> http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec10.pdf
>
> "NO TIES TO IRAQ!"
The 9/11 Commission details ties between Iraq and terrorists and
terrorism.
>>Hate him if you like, but try to do it for valid reasons.
>
> #1 Patriot Act removes civil rights.
I agree the Patriot Act is a bit on the draconian side in some
areas. But contrast it with actions taken during WWII when German
and Japanese Americans were locked up and their properties siezed
and sold off. Now THAT is bad news!
Precious few people whined, then, but I digress.
To combat a foe who can easily blend in and who means to kill
civilians, one must take extraordinary measures. I'm not saying I
like all of the Patriot Act, but I'm not saying that it is not
necessary.
> Good call on the nuke stuff, I hadn't read that. Will look into it.
Cool.
Brian
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! __________==___utivro
David Gravereaux wrote:
> Brian Talley <btalley@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>None of what President Bush told the public re WMDs in Iraq
>>was false given the intelligence he had from the CIA, U.N.,
>>European, Russian and ME sources.
>
>
> Oh like we shouldn't blame him for believing his faulty intelligence?
Well, no, we shouldn't.
Take into consideration the efforts of Clinton to decrease
funding for intelligence-gathering agencies. Also, consider the
efforts by Jamie Gorelick (who was also on the 9/11 Commission)
who mandated that the FBI and CIA could not, legally, share
information. I don't think it's reasonable to expect Bush to
get US intelligence back on its feet in the few months he was
in office before 9/11.
> The buck stops with him. Read Section 10.3:
> http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec10.pdf
>
> "NO TIES TO IRAQ!"
The 9/11 Commission details ties between Iraq and terrorists and
terrorism.
>>Hate him if you like, but try to do it for valid reasons.
>
> #1 Patriot Act removes civil rights.
I agree the Patriot Act is a bit on the draconian side in some
areas. But contrast it with actions taken during WWII when German
and Japanese Americans were locked up and their properties siezed
and sold off. Now THAT is bad news!
Precious few people whined, then, but I digress.
To combat a foe who can easily blend in and who means to kill
civilians, one must take extraordinary measures. I'm not saying I
like all of the Patriot Act, but I'm not saying that it is not
necessary.
> Good call on the nuke stuff, I hadn't read that. Will look into it.
Cool.
Brian
> Brian Talley <btalley@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>None of what President Bush told the public re WMDs in Iraq
>>was false given the intelligence he had from the CIA, U.N.,
>>European, Russian and ME sources.
>
>
> Oh like we shouldn't blame him for believing his faulty intelligence?
Well, no, we shouldn't.
Take into consideration the efforts of Clinton to decrease
funding for intelligence-gathering agencies. Also, consider the
efforts by Jamie Gorelick (who was also on the 9/11 Commission)
who mandated that the FBI and CIA could not, legally, share
information. I don't think it's reasonable to expect Bush to
get US intelligence back on its feet in the few months he was
in office before 9/11.
> The buck stops with him. Read Section 10.3:
> http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec10.pdf
>
> "NO TIES TO IRAQ!"
The 9/11 Commission details ties between Iraq and terrorists and
terrorism.
>>Hate him if you like, but try to do it for valid reasons.
>
> #1 Patriot Act removes civil rights.
I agree the Patriot Act is a bit on the draconian side in some
areas. But contrast it with actions taken during WWII when German
and Japanese Americans were locked up and their properties siezed
and sold off. Now THAT is bad news!
Precious few people whined, then, but I digress.
To combat a foe who can easily blend in and who means to kill
civilians, one must take extraordinary measures. I'm not saying I
like all of the Patriot Act, but I'm not saying that it is not
necessary.
> Good call on the nuke stuff, I hadn't read that. Will look into it.
Cool.
Brian