Sheldon Harper wrote:
>
> hillpc@emailaccount.com wrote in news:1139690514.623787.317720
> @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Any idea how to find out the rating of an old cast iron S&S Y629 worm
> > gear manual winch? The thing seems hell-for-stout, weighing about 75
> > pounds, with big cast iron gear teeth. It has a 1/4 wire rope on it.
>
> You're usually safe assuming the winch will handle whatever the
> wire rope rating is, if you have a reasonably new winch. It
> parts aren't too badly worn it should be able to handle that
> load today. Wire rope has a safe load rating as well as a
> break strength rating. On older stuff, especially if you don't
> know its history, it makes sense not to push your luck. All this
> presumes that the winch came originally equipped with the 1/4
> inch wire rope.
>
> Personally I'm not enamored of cast iron for lifting stuff,
> regardless of how stout it looks. The sort of winch you describe
> is nicely decorative if nothing else. My perspective is one of
> a retired guy who has had the darndest things fail at unexpected
> moments. If I were 20 or 30 again I might use stuff that today I
> smile at and go find some other way to get the job done.
>
> I don't think I'm overcautious so much as I demand comfortable
> decisions in how I handle loads. This comes, mind you, from a guy
> who broke easily half a dozen chains last year using the JD 500C
> backhoe to lift loads. The only redeeming aspect is that in the
> sorts of applications I get involved in the chains break about
> the time you start the lift by getting the load off the ground,
> so nothing ever actually fell so much as it settled back to ground.
>
> Here's what I'd do. After deciding what weight you think the
> winch can safely handle, load it 2 to 3X that weight, and shake
> or jerk the load some to simulate the worse case you imagine
> you'll ever have. Better to break it during a test when you're
> cautious with it and you're anticipating a failure than to have
> it break unexpectedly later. Be cautious of whipping cable in
> case that lets loose first.
>
> Have fun with your new toy.

If you're breaking chains with your 500C (I have one too), you're using
the wrong chains. The 500C is only rated 5,000# on the loader and 2,000#
(full extension) on the backhoe. I use the inexpensive Campbell C7 20'
tow chains rated at 5,400# working load and have yet to have one fail. I
cut one in half to make two 10' chains as well.

Pete C.

 

Sheldon Harper wrote:
>
> hillpc@emailaccount.com wrote in news:1139690514.623787.317720
> @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Any idea how to find out the rating of an old cast iron S&S Y629 worm
> > gear manual winch? The thing seems hell-for-stout, weighing about 75
> > pounds, with big cast iron gear teeth. It has a 1/4 wire rope on it.
>
> You're usually safe assuming the winch will handle whatever the
> wire rope rating is, if you have a reasonably new winch. It
> parts aren't too badly worn it should be able to handle that
> load today. Wire rope has a safe load rating as well as a
> break strength rating. On older stuff, especially if you don't
> know its history, it makes sense not to push your luck. All this
> presumes that the winch came originally equipped with the 1/4
> inch wire rope.
>
> Personally I'm not enamored of cast iron for lifting stuff,
> regardless of how stout it looks. The sort of winch you describe
> is nicely decorative if nothing else. My perspective is one of
> a retired guy who has had the darndest things fail at unexpected
> moments. If I were 20 or 30 again I might use stuff that today I
> smile at and go find some other way to get the job done.
>
> I don't think I'm overcautious so much as I demand comfortable
> decisions in how I handle loads. This comes, mind you, from a guy
> who broke easily half a dozen chains last year using the JD 500C
> backhoe to lift loads. The only redeeming aspect is that in the
> sorts of applications I get involved in the chains break about
> the time you start the lift by getting the load off the ground,
> so nothing ever actually fell so much as it settled back to ground.
>
> Here's what I'd do. After deciding what weight you think the
> winch can safely handle, load it 2 to 3X that weight, and shake
> or jerk the load some to simulate the worse case you imagine
> you'll ever have. Better to break it during a test when you're
> cautious with it and you're anticipating a failure than to have
> it break unexpectedly later. Be cautious of whipping cable in
> case that lets loose first.
>
> Have fun with your new toy.

If you're breaking chains with your 500C (I have one too), you're using
the wrong chains. The 500C is only rated 5,000# on the loader and 2,000#
(full extension) on the backhoe. I use the inexpensive Campbell C7 20'
tow chains rated at 5,400# working load and have yet to have one fail. I
cut one in half to make two 10' chains as well.

Pete C.

 

Sheldon Harper wrote:
>
> hillpc@emailaccount.com wrote in news:1139690514.623787.317720
> @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Any idea how to find out the rating of an old cast iron S&S Y629 worm
> > gear manual winch? The thing seems hell-for-stout, weighing about 75
> > pounds, with big cast iron gear teeth. It has a 1/4 wire rope on it.
>
> You're usually safe assuming the winch will handle whatever the
> wire rope rating is, if you have a reasonably new winch. It
> parts aren't too badly worn it should be able to handle that
> load today. Wire rope has a safe load rating as well as a
> break strength rating. On older stuff, especially if you don't
> know its history, it makes sense not to push your luck. All this
> presumes that the winch came originally equipped with the 1/4
> inch wire rope.
>
> Personally I'm not enamored of cast iron for lifting stuff,
> regardless of how stout it looks. The sort of winch you describe
> is nicely decorative if nothing else. My perspective is one of
> a retired guy who has had the darndest things fail at unexpected
> moments. If I were 20 or 30 again I might use stuff that today I
> smile at and go find some other way to get the job done.
>
> I don't think I'm overcautious so much as I demand comfortable
> decisions in how I handle loads. This comes, mind you, from a guy
> who broke easily half a dozen chains last year using the JD 500C
> backhoe to lift loads. The only redeeming aspect is that in the
> sorts of applications I get involved in the chains break about
> the time you start the lift by getting the load off the ground,
> so nothing ever actually fell so much as it settled back to ground.
>
> Here's what I'd do. After deciding what weight you think the
> winch can safely handle, load it 2 to 3X that weight, and shake
> or jerk the load some to simulate the worse case you imagine
> you'll ever have. Better to break it during a test when you're
> cautious with it and you're anticipating a failure than to have
> it break unexpectedly later. Be cautious of whipping cable in
> case that lets loose first.
>
> Have fun with your new toy.

If you're breaking chains with your 500C (I have one too), you're using
the wrong chains. The 500C is only rated 5,000# on the loader and 2,000#
(full extension) on the backhoe. I use the inexpensive Campbell C7 20'
tow chains rated at 5,400# working load and have yet to have one fail. I
cut one in half to make two 10' chains as well.

Pete C.

 

PeterD wrote:
> On 11 Feb 2006 12:41:54 -0800, hillpc@emailaccount.com wrote:
>
> >Any idea how to find out the rating of an old cast iron S&S Y629 worm
> >gear manual winch? The thing seems hell-for-stout, weighing about 75
> >pounds, with big cast iron gear teeth. It has a 1/4 wire rope on it.
>
> With 1/4" wire rope, it can't be rated very high at all. Since you
> don't know what *kind* of wire rope is on there, let's guess a
> generic, typical rope whihc has a breaking strength of perhaps 3,600
> lb. That's breaking strength, actual load strength is *much* less, say
> 25% of that figure, or about 900 lb.
>
> So if the winch and the rope on it were 'matched' figure maybe a 1000
> lb winch? Certainly not more, IMHO.

I'd agree. The ultimate tensile strength is derived under ideal
conditions, they simply test some samples, along with actually
calculating the tensile strength based on strand cross sectional area,
and number of strands. Then, they give it a factor or safety. This
factor of safety may seem too extreme, until you stand under a load
that it's picking up!

 

PeterD wrote:
> On 11 Feb 2006 12:41:54 -0800, hillpc@emailaccount.com wrote:
>
> >Any idea how to find out the rating of an old cast iron S&S Y629 worm
> >gear manual winch? The thing seems hell-for-stout, weighing about 75
> >pounds, with big cast iron gear teeth. It has a 1/4 wire rope on it.
>
> With 1/4" wire rope, it can't be rated very high at all. Since you
> don't know what *kind* of wire rope is on there, let's guess a
> generic, typical rope whihc has a breaking strength of perhaps 3,600
> lb. That's breaking strength, actual load strength is *much* less, say
> 25% of that figure, or about 900 lb.
>
> So if the winch and the rope on it were 'matched' figure maybe a 1000
> lb winch? Certainly not more, IMHO.

I'd agree. The ultimate tensile strength is derived under ideal
conditions, they simply test some samples, along with actually
calculating the tensile strength based on strand cross sectional area,
and number of strands. Then, they give it a factor or safety. This
factor of safety may seem too extreme, until you stand under a load
that it's picking up!

 

PeterD wrote:
> On 11 Feb 2006 12:41:54 -0800, hillpc@emailaccount.com wrote:
>
> >Any idea how to find out the rating of an old cast iron S&S Y629 worm
> >gear manual winch? The thing seems hell-for-stout, weighing about 75
> >pounds, with big cast iron gear teeth. It has a 1/4 wire rope on it.
>
> With 1/4" wire rope, it can't be rated very high at all. Since you
> don't know what *kind* of wire rope is on there, let's guess a
> generic, typical rope whihc has a breaking strength of perhaps 3,600
> lb. That's breaking strength, actual load strength is *much* less, say
> 25% of that figure, or about 900 lb.
>
> So if the winch and the rope on it were 'matched' figure maybe a 1000
> lb winch? Certainly not more, IMHO.

I'd agree. The ultimate tensile strength is derived under ideal
conditions, they simply test some samples, along with actually
calculating the tensile strength based on strand cross sectional area,
and number of strands. Then, they give it a factor or safety. This
factor of safety may seem too extreme, until you stand under a load
that it's picking up!

 

PeterD wrote:
> On 11 Feb 2006 12:41:54 -0800, hillpc@emailaccount.com wrote:
>
> >Any idea how to find out the rating of an old cast iron S&S Y629 worm
> >gear manual winch? The thing seems hell-for-stout, weighing about 75
> >pounds, with big cast iron gear teeth. It has a 1/4 wire rope on it.
>
> With 1/4" wire rope, it can't be rated very high at all. Since you
> don't know what *kind* of wire rope is on there, let's guess a
> generic, typical rope whihc has a breaking strength of perhaps 3,600
> lb. That's breaking strength, actual load strength is *much* less, say
> 25% of that figure, or about 900 lb.
>
> So if the winch and the rope on it were 'matched' figure maybe a 1000
> lb winch? Certainly not more, IMHO.

I'd agree. The ultimate tensile strength is derived under ideal
conditions, they simply test some samples, along with actually
calculating the tensile strength based on strand cross sectional area,
and number of strands. Then, they give it a factor or safety. This
factor of safety may seem too extreme, until you stand under a load
that it's picking up!

 

The statement, "You're usually safe assuming the winch will handle
whatever the wire rope rating is" seems kinda like rating a truck based
on whatever tires the last owner had lying around and decided to throw
on it. I guess that's why you said "if you have a reasonably new
winch," and "All this presumes that the winch came originally equipped
with the 1/4 inch wire rope." I can't find any references to a winch
company named S&S; probably long out of business. The thing's gotta be
50 years old.

Thanks for the torture test advice. I may try to lift my Suburban a
couple of inches off the ground with it.

 

The statement, "You're usually safe assuming the winch will handle
whatever the wire rope rating is" seems kinda like rating a truck based
on whatever tires the last owner had lying around and decided to throw
on it. I guess that's why you said "if you have a reasonably new
winch," and "All this presumes that the winch came originally equipped
with the 1/4 inch wire rope." I can't find any references to a winch
company named S&S; probably long out of business. The thing's gotta be
50 years old.

Thanks for the torture test advice. I may try to lift my Suburban a
couple of inches off the ground with it.

 

The statement, "You're usually safe assuming the winch will handle
whatever the wire rope rating is" seems kinda like rating a truck based
on whatever tires the last owner had lying around and decided to throw
on it. I guess that's why you said "if you have a reasonably new
winch," and "All this presumes that the winch came originally equipped
with the 1/4 inch wire rope." I can't find any references to a winch
company named S&S; probably long out of business. The thing's gotta be
50 years old.

Thanks for the torture test advice. I may try to lift my Suburban a
couple of inches off the ground with it.