Ted Azito

From 0IIIIIII0:

The company that made the conversion kit for you are use special
materials. Like the carburetor your using isn't the stock gasoline one
your car came with, as the first kits here in California, that froze,
in
ninety degree weather. Remember like your Air Conditioning you are
releasing gas under pressure, which freezes. A friend was killed a
couple of years ago with a similar gas, nitrous froze full throttle.
Learn never use it for more than ten seconds.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O


Then:
The old El Camino and a Dodge burned because the valves were not
converted to steel inserts to use unleaded fuel. Their engines were
total junk by the time they fired back through the carburetor.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O

Here's why Bill is ----ed between the ears:

1. How does Bill know these engines weren't fitted with Stellite (not
steel:Stellite is the preferred seat, although steel exists)inserts?
In point of fact the RV outfit that sold Uncle Dummy the Dodge
conversion DID put on a completely reworked head with performance
valves, Stellite inserts, and an aluminized header, and allegedly
ported and polished it as well. The Chev was a '75 with unleaded heads
and cat con so you couldn't run lead anyway (unless you punched the
catcon).

However...

2. It isn't necessary, as long as the engine is occasionally operated
on leaded gas. The lead works its way into the seats-and back
out-slowly.

3. The unhardened cast iron seats are going to wear out with or
without lead. Lead slows it down some but the difference is probably
50,000 vs. 75,000 miles between a valve job. Usually people with dual
fuel had no issue and straight propane swaps would run them until they
needed doing anyway and swap head(s) (faster to build up junkyard
cores and swap'em out) when it was needed. An engine with bad seats
and valve heads but a clean lower end is not total junk, it just needs
a valve job. But neither of these did. Both engine fires occurred with
less than ten thousand miles on the vehicles.

4. The fires stopped after the second one when Uncle Dummy learned
not to plunge that handle in like that. He drove the El Camino until
he died and the Dodge until it (the RV part) fell apart and it was
converted into a stakebed.

5. There are no special gasoline carburetors made for dual fuel
conversions. They might change a vent or power valve or choke assembly
but that's it.

6. N2O, nitrous oxide, is not a similar gas to propane. They are
chemically dissimilar and they are used in very different ways. Your
friend _----ed up_ by not hitting the ignition, he panicked. (He also
----ed up by not putting a big kill button on the dash or wheel as
Drag Cars have.) I'm sorry it happened but it had _no_ relationship to
propane whatsoever. It's irrelevant, totally and completely, to this
discussion. And for the record the gas, whether propane, N2O, or
Freon, _does not_ freeze. Not on this earth. (Maybe on
Jupiter.)Atmospheric water condenses and then freezes.

7. The Vaporizer won't freeze if you plumb its water supply so that
it always has hot water regardless of thermostat position. They do
this in various ways. Usually most people run the heater when the
temperature is around 32 degrees Fahrenheit keeping flow through the
heater lines working. And since at Sea Level (which most places in
the UK are close to) propane boils at -35 or so, if he is using the
correct antifreeze it should never freeze in the coolant passage even
then.


RTFM, Bill, or talk to some Propane Professionals, there are many in
California AFAIK.

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

<ROTFLMAO>
Just to restate a basic physical property, released pressure
freezes. (That was the similarity you couldn't understand.) just like
pressurizing an air tank, heats.
When are you going take on responsibility with a real address,
girlie boy?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Ted Azito wrote:
><nothing but babble>

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

<ROTFLMAO>
Just to restate a basic physical property, released pressure
freezes. (That was the similarity you couldn't understand.) just like
pressurizing an air tank, heats.
When are you going take on responsibility with a real address,
girlie boy?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Ted Azito wrote:
><nothing but babble>

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

<ROTFLMAO>
Just to restate a basic physical property, released pressure
freezes. (That was the similarity you couldn't understand.) just like
pressurizing an air tank, heats.
When are you going take on responsibility with a real address,
girlie boy?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Ted Azito wrote:
><nothing but babble>

Dave Milne

I was running a 50% mix of the correct and new antifreeze
(the rad was changed a week before). I looked around the
internet and it seemed to be a fairly common phenomenon
(especially when starting fork lifts which had been left outside
on cold nights). It took a long time to unfreeze as well -
several hours.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"Ted Azito" <larboard34@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b53da461.0409021909.1a6e6839@posting.google.c om...
> And since at Sea Level (which most places in
> the UK are close to) propane boils at -35 or so, if he is using the
> correct antifreeze it should never freeze in the coolant passage even
> then.

Dave Milne

I was running a 50% mix of the correct and new antifreeze
(the rad was changed a week before). I looked around the
internet and it seemed to be a fairly common phenomenon
(especially when starting fork lifts which had been left outside
on cold nights). It took a long time to unfreeze as well -
several hours.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"Ted Azito" <larboard34@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b53da461.0409021909.1a6e6839@posting.google.c om...
> And since at Sea Level (which most places in
> the UK are close to) propane boils at -35 or so, if he is using the
> correct antifreeze it should never freeze in the coolant passage even
> then.

Dave Milne

I was running a 50% mix of the correct and new antifreeze
(the rad was changed a week before). I looked around the
internet and it seemed to be a fairly common phenomenon
(especially when starting fork lifts which had been left outside
on cold nights). It took a long time to unfreeze as well -
several hours.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"Ted Azito" <larboard34@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b53da461.0409021909.1a6e6839@posting.google.c om...
> And since at Sea Level (which most places in
> the UK are close to) propane boils at -35 or so, if he is using the
> correct antifreeze it should never freeze in the coolant passage even
> then.

MacIntosh

I remember some of those early NOx kits, injected above the carb rather than
below. They caused a real threat of frozen butterflies.

"Ted Azito" <larboard34@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b53da461.0409021909.1a6e6839@posting.google.c om...
> From 0IIIIIII0:
>
> The company that made the conversion kit for you are use special
> materials. Like the carburetor your using isn't the stock gasoline one
> your car came with, as the first kits here in California, that froze,
> in
> ninety degree weather. Remember like your Air Conditioning you are
> releasing gas under pressure, which freezes. A friend was killed a
> couple of years ago with a similar gas, nitrous froze full throttle.
> Learn never use it for more than ten seconds.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>
>
> Then:
> The old El Camino and a Dodge burned because the valves were not
> converted to steel inserts to use unleaded fuel. Their engines were
> total junk by the time they fired back through the carburetor.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>
> Here's why Bill is ----ed between the ears:
>
> 1. How does Bill know these engines weren't fitted with Stellite (not
> steel:Stellite is the preferred seat, although steel exists)inserts?
> In point of fact the RV outfit that sold Uncle Dummy the Dodge
> conversion DID put on a completely reworked head with performance
> valves, Stellite inserts, and an aluminized header, and allegedly
> ported and polished it as well. The Chev was a '75 with unleaded heads
> and cat con so you couldn't run lead anyway (unless you punched the
> catcon).
>
> However...
>
> 2. It isn't necessary, as long as the engine is occasionally operated
> on leaded gas. The lead works its way into the seats-and back
> out-slowly.
>
> 3. The unhardened cast iron seats are going to wear out with or
> without lead. Lead slows it down some but the difference is probably
> 50,000 vs. 75,000 miles between a valve job. Usually people with dual
> fuel had no issue and straight propane swaps would run them until they
> needed doing anyway and swap head(s) (faster to build up junkyard
> cores and swap'em out) when it was needed. An engine with bad seats
> and valve heads but a clean lower end is not total junk, it just needs
> a valve job. But neither of these did. Both engine fires occurred with
> less than ten thousand miles on the vehicles.
>
> 4. The fires stopped after the second one when Uncle Dummy learned
> not to plunge that handle in like that. He drove the El Camino until
> he died and the Dodge until it (the RV part) fell apart and it was
> converted into a stakebed.
>
> 5. There are no special gasoline carburetors made for dual fuel
> conversions. They might change a vent or power valve or choke assembly
> but that's it.
>
> 6. N2O, nitrous oxide, is not a similar gas to propane. They are
> chemically dissimilar and they are used in very different ways. Your
> friend _----ed up_ by not hitting the ignition, he panicked. (He also
> ----ed up by not putting a big kill button on the dash or wheel as
> Drag Cars have.) I'm sorry it happened but it had _no_ relationship to
> propane whatsoever. It's irrelevant, totally and completely, to this
> discussion. And for the record the gas, whether propane, N2O, or
> Freon, _does not_ freeze. Not on this earth. (Maybe on
> Jupiter.)Atmospheric water condenses and then freezes.
>
> 7. The Vaporizer won't freeze if you plumb its water supply so that
> it always has hot water regardless of thermostat position. They do
> this in various ways. Usually most people run the heater when the
> temperature is around 32 degrees Fahrenheit keeping flow through the
> heater lines working. And since at Sea Level (which most places in
> the UK are close to) propane boils at -35 or so, if he is using the
> correct antifreeze it should never freeze in the coolant passage even
> then.
>
>
> RTFM, Bill, or talk to some Propane Professionals, there are many in
> California AFAIK.

MacIntosh

I remember some of those early NOx kits, injected above the carb rather than
below. They caused a real threat of frozen butterflies.

"Ted Azito" <larboard34@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b53da461.0409021909.1a6e6839@posting.google.c om...
> From 0IIIIIII0:
>
> The company that made the conversion kit for you are use special
> materials. Like the carburetor your using isn't the stock gasoline one
> your car came with, as the first kits here in California, that froze,
> in
> ninety degree weather. Remember like your Air Conditioning you are
> releasing gas under pressure, which freezes. A friend was killed a
> couple of years ago with a similar gas, nitrous froze full throttle.
> Learn never use it for more than ten seconds.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>
>
> Then:
> The old El Camino and a Dodge burned because the valves were not
> converted to steel inserts to use unleaded fuel. Their engines were
> total junk by the time they fired back through the carburetor.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>
> Here's why Bill is ----ed between the ears:
>
> 1. How does Bill know these engines weren't fitted with Stellite (not
> steel:Stellite is the preferred seat, although steel exists)inserts?
> In point of fact the RV outfit that sold Uncle Dummy the Dodge
> conversion DID put on a completely reworked head with performance
> valves, Stellite inserts, and an aluminized header, and allegedly
> ported and polished it as well. The Chev was a '75 with unleaded heads
> and cat con so you couldn't run lead anyway (unless you punched the
> catcon).
>
> However...
>
> 2. It isn't necessary, as long as the engine is occasionally operated
> on leaded gas. The lead works its way into the seats-and back
> out-slowly.
>
> 3. The unhardened cast iron seats are going to wear out with or
> without lead. Lead slows it down some but the difference is probably
> 50,000 vs. 75,000 miles between a valve job. Usually people with dual
> fuel had no issue and straight propane swaps would run them until they
> needed doing anyway and swap head(s) (faster to build up junkyard
> cores and swap'em out) when it was needed. An engine with bad seats
> and valve heads but a clean lower end is not total junk, it just needs
> a valve job. But neither of these did. Both engine fires occurred with
> less than ten thousand miles on the vehicles.
>
> 4. The fires stopped after the second one when Uncle Dummy learned
> not to plunge that handle in like that. He drove the El Camino until
> he died and the Dodge until it (the RV part) fell apart and it was
> converted into a stakebed.
>
> 5. There are no special gasoline carburetors made for dual fuel
> conversions. They might change a vent or power valve or choke assembly
> but that's it.
>
> 6. N2O, nitrous oxide, is not a similar gas to propane. They are
> chemically dissimilar and they are used in very different ways. Your
> friend _----ed up_ by not hitting the ignition, he panicked. (He also
> ----ed up by not putting a big kill button on the dash or wheel as
> Drag Cars have.) I'm sorry it happened but it had _no_ relationship to
> propane whatsoever. It's irrelevant, totally and completely, to this
> discussion. And for the record the gas, whether propane, N2O, or
> Freon, _does not_ freeze. Not on this earth. (Maybe on
> Jupiter.)Atmospheric water condenses and then freezes.
>
> 7. The Vaporizer won't freeze if you plumb its water supply so that
> it always has hot water regardless of thermostat position. They do
> this in various ways. Usually most people run the heater when the
> temperature is around 32 degrees Fahrenheit keeping flow through the
> heater lines working. And since at Sea Level (which most places in
> the UK are close to) propane boils at -35 or so, if he is using the
> correct antifreeze it should never freeze in the coolant passage even
> then.
>
>
> RTFM, Bill, or talk to some Propane Professionals, there are many in
> California AFAIK.

MacIntosh

I remember some of those early NOx kits, injected above the carb rather than
below. They caused a real threat of frozen butterflies.

"Ted Azito" <larboard34@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b53da461.0409021909.1a6e6839@posting.google.c om...
> From 0IIIIIII0:
>
> The company that made the conversion kit for you are use special
> materials. Like the carburetor your using isn't the stock gasoline one
> your car came with, as the first kits here in California, that froze,
> in
> ninety degree weather. Remember like your Air Conditioning you are
> releasing gas under pressure, which freezes. A friend was killed a
> couple of years ago with a similar gas, nitrous froze full throttle.
> Learn never use it for more than ten seconds.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>
>
> Then:
> The old El Camino and a Dodge burned because the valves were not
> converted to steel inserts to use unleaded fuel. Their engines were
> total junk by the time they fired back through the carburetor.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>
> Here's why Bill is ----ed between the ears:
>
> 1. How does Bill know these engines weren't fitted with Stellite (not
> steel:Stellite is the preferred seat, although steel exists)inserts?
> In point of fact the RV outfit that sold Uncle Dummy the Dodge
> conversion DID put on a completely reworked head with performance
> valves, Stellite inserts, and an aluminized header, and allegedly
> ported and polished it as well. The Chev was a '75 with unleaded heads
> and cat con so you couldn't run lead anyway (unless you punched the
> catcon).
>
> However...
>
> 2. It isn't necessary, as long as the engine is occasionally operated
> on leaded gas. The lead works its way into the seats-and back
> out-slowly.
>
> 3. The unhardened cast iron seats are going to wear out with or
> without lead. Lead slows it down some but the difference is probably
> 50,000 vs. 75,000 miles between a valve job. Usually people with dual
> fuel had no issue and straight propane swaps would run them until they
> needed doing anyway and swap head(s) (faster to build up junkyard
> cores and swap'em out) when it was needed. An engine with bad seats
> and valve heads but a clean lower end is not total junk, it just needs
> a valve job. But neither of these did. Both engine fires occurred with
> less than ten thousand miles on the vehicles.
>
> 4. The fires stopped after the second one when Uncle Dummy learned
> not to plunge that handle in like that. He drove the El Camino until
> he died and the Dodge until it (the RV part) fell apart and it was
> converted into a stakebed.
>
> 5. There are no special gasoline carburetors made for dual fuel
> conversions. They might change a vent or power valve or choke assembly
> but that's it.
>
> 6. N2O, nitrous oxide, is not a similar gas to propane. They are
> chemically dissimilar and they are used in very different ways. Your
> friend _----ed up_ by not hitting the ignition, he panicked. (He also
> ----ed up by not putting a big kill button on the dash or wheel as
> Drag Cars have.) I'm sorry it happened but it had _no_ relationship to
> propane whatsoever. It's irrelevant, totally and completely, to this
> discussion. And for the record the gas, whether propane, N2O, or
> Freon, _does not_ freeze. Not on this earth. (Maybe on
> Jupiter.)Atmospheric water condenses and then freezes.
>
> 7. The Vaporizer won't freeze if you plumb its water supply so that
> it always has hot water regardless of thermostat position. They do
> this in various ways. Usually most people run the heater when the
> temperature is around 32 degrees Fahrenheit keeping flow through the
> heater lines working. And since at Sea Level (which most places in
> the UK are close to) propane boils at -35 or so, if he is using the
> correct antifreeze it should never freeze in the coolant passage even
> then.
>
>
> RTFM, Bill, or talk to some Propane Professionals, there are many in
> California AFAIK.