Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

From 0IIIIIII0:

The company that made the conversion kit for you are use special
materials. Like the carburetor your using isn't the stock gasoline one
your car came with, as the first kits here in California, that froze,
in
ninety degree weather. Remember like your Air Conditioning you are
releasing gas under pressure, which freezes. A friend was killed a
couple of years ago with a similar gas, nitrous froze full throttle.
Learn never use it for more than ten seconds.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O


Then:
The old El Camino and a Dodge burned because the valves were not
converted to steel inserts to use unleaded fuel. Their engines were
total junk by the time they fired back through the carburetor.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O

Here's why Bill is ----ed between the ears:

1. How does Bill know these engines weren't fitted with Stellite (not
steel:Stellite is the preferred seat, although steel exists)inserts?
In point of fact the RV outfit that sold Uncle Dummy the Dodge
conversion DID put on a completely reworked head with performance
valves, Stellite inserts, and an aluminized header, and allegedly
ported and polished it as well. The Chev was a '75 with unleaded heads
and cat con so you couldn't run lead anyway (unless you punched the
catcon).

However...

2. It isn't necessary, as long as the engine is occasionally operated
on leaded gas. The lead works its way into the seats-and back
out-slowly.

3. The unhardened cast iron seats are going to wear out with or
without lead. Lead slows it down some but the difference is probably
50,000 vs. 75,000 miles between a valve job. Usually people with dual
fuel had no issue and straight propane swaps would run them until they
needed doing anyway and swap head(s) (faster to build up junkyard
cores and swap'em out) when it was needed. An engine with bad seats
and valve heads but a clean lower end is not total junk, it just needs
a valve job. But neither of these did. Both engine fires occurred with
less than ten thousand miles on the vehicles.

4. The fires stopped after the second one when Uncle Dummy learned
not to plunge that handle in like that. He drove the El Camino until
he died and the Dodge until it (the RV part) fell apart and it was
converted into a stakebed.

5. There are no special gasoline carburetors made for dual fuel
conversions. They might change a vent or power valve or choke assembly
but that's it.

6. N2O, nitrous oxide, is not a similar gas to propane. They are
chemically dissimilar and they are used in very different ways. Your
friend _----ed up_ by not hitting the ignition, he panicked. (He also
----ed up by not putting a big kill button on the dash or wheel as
Drag Cars have.) I'm sorry it happened but it had _no_ relationship to
propane whatsoever. It's irrelevant, totally and completely, to this
discussion. And for the record the gas, whether propane, N2O, or
Freon, _does not_ freeze. Not on this earth. (Maybe on
Jupiter.)Atmospheric water condenses and then freezes.

7. The Vaporizer won't freeze if you plumb its water supply so that
it always has hot water regardless of thermostat position. They do
this in various ways. Usually most people run the heater when the
temperature is around 32 degrees Fahrenheit keeping flow through the
heater lines working. And since at Sea Level (which most places in
the UK are close to) propane boils at -35 or so, if he is using the
correct antifreeze it should never freeze in the coolant passage even
then.


RTFM, Bill, or talk to some Propane Professionals, there are many in
California AFAIK.

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

<ROTFLMAO>
Just to restate a basic physical property, released pressure
freezes. (That was the similarity you couldn't understand.) just like
pressurizing an air tank, heats.
When are you going take on responsibility with a real address,
girlie boy?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Ted Azito wrote:
><nothing but babble>

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

<ROTFLMAO>
Just to restate a basic physical property, released pressure
freezes. (That was the similarity you couldn't understand.) just like
pressurizing an air tank, heats.
When are you going take on responsibility with a real address,
girlie boy?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Ted Azito wrote:
><nothing but babble>

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

<ROTFLMAO>
Just to restate a basic physical property, released pressure
freezes. (That was the similarity you couldn't understand.) just like
pressurizing an air tank, heats.
When are you going take on responsibility with a real address,
girlie boy?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Ted Azito wrote:
><nothing but babble>

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

I was running a 50% mix of the correct and new antifreeze
(the rad was changed a week before). I looked around the
internet and it seemed to be a fairly common phenomenon
(especially when starting fork lifts which had been left outside
on cold nights). It took a long time to unfreeze as well -
several hours.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"Ted Azito" <larboard34@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b53da461.0409021909.1a6e6839@posting.google.c om...
> And since at Sea Level (which most places in
> the UK are close to) propane boils at -35 or so, if he is using the
> correct antifreeze it should never freeze in the coolant passage even
> then.

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

I was running a 50% mix of the correct and new antifreeze
(the rad was changed a week before). I looked around the
internet and it seemed to be a fairly common phenomenon
(especially when starting fork lifts which had been left outside
on cold nights). It took a long time to unfreeze as well -
several hours.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"Ted Azito" <larboard34@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b53da461.0409021909.1a6e6839@posting.google.c om...
> And since at Sea Level (which most places in
> the UK are close to) propane boils at -35 or so, if he is using the
> correct antifreeze it should never freeze in the coolant passage even
> then.

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

I was running a 50% mix of the correct and new antifreeze
(the rad was changed a week before). I looked around the
internet and it seemed to be a fairly common phenomenon
(especially when starting fork lifts which had been left outside
on cold nights). It took a long time to unfreeze as well -
several hours.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"Ted Azito" <larboard34@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b53da461.0409021909.1a6e6839@posting.google.c om...
> And since at Sea Level (which most places in
> the UK are close to) propane boils at -35 or so, if he is using the
> correct antifreeze it should never freeze in the coolant passage even
> then.

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

I remember some of those early NOx kits, injected above the carb rather than
below. They caused a real threat of frozen butterflies.

"Ted Azito" <larboard34@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b53da461.0409021909.1a6e6839@posting.google.c om...
> From 0IIIIIII0:
>
> The company that made the conversion kit for you are use special
> materials. Like the carburetor your using isn't the stock gasoline one
> your car came with, as the first kits here in California, that froze,
> in
> ninety degree weather. Remember like your Air Conditioning you are
> releasing gas under pressure, which freezes. A friend was killed a
> couple of years ago with a similar gas, nitrous froze full throttle.
> Learn never use it for more than ten seconds.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>
>
> Then:
> The old El Camino and a Dodge burned because the valves were not
> converted to steel inserts to use unleaded fuel. Their engines were
> total junk by the time they fired back through the carburetor.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>
> Here's why Bill is ----ed between the ears:
>
> 1. How does Bill know these engines weren't fitted with Stellite (not
> steel:Stellite is the preferred seat, although steel exists)inserts?
> In point of fact the RV outfit that sold Uncle Dummy the Dodge
> conversion DID put on a completely reworked head with performance
> valves, Stellite inserts, and an aluminized header, and allegedly
> ported and polished it as well. The Chev was a '75 with unleaded heads
> and cat con so you couldn't run lead anyway (unless you punched the
> catcon).
>
> However...
>
> 2. It isn't necessary, as long as the engine is occasionally operated
> on leaded gas. The lead works its way into the seats-and back
> out-slowly.
>
> 3. The unhardened cast iron seats are going to wear out with or
> without lead. Lead slows it down some but the difference is probably
> 50,000 vs. 75,000 miles between a valve job. Usually people with dual
> fuel had no issue and straight propane swaps would run them until they
> needed doing anyway and swap head(s) (faster to build up junkyard
> cores and swap'em out) when it was needed. An engine with bad seats
> and valve heads but a clean lower end is not total junk, it just needs
> a valve job. But neither of these did. Both engine fires occurred with
> less than ten thousand miles on the vehicles.
>
> 4. The fires stopped after the second one when Uncle Dummy learned
> not to plunge that handle in like that. He drove the El Camino until
> he died and the Dodge until it (the RV part) fell apart and it was
> converted into a stakebed.
>
> 5. There are no special gasoline carburetors made for dual fuel
> conversions. They might change a vent or power valve or choke assembly
> but that's it.
>
> 6. N2O, nitrous oxide, is not a similar gas to propane. They are
> chemically dissimilar and they are used in very different ways. Your
> friend _----ed up_ by not hitting the ignition, he panicked. (He also
> ----ed up by not putting a big kill button on the dash or wheel as
> Drag Cars have.) I'm sorry it happened but it had _no_ relationship to
> propane whatsoever. It's irrelevant, totally and completely, to this
> discussion. And for the record the gas, whether propane, N2O, or
> Freon, _does not_ freeze. Not on this earth. (Maybe on
> Jupiter.)Atmospheric water condenses and then freezes.
>
> 7. The Vaporizer won't freeze if you plumb its water supply so that
> it always has hot water regardless of thermostat position. They do
> this in various ways. Usually most people run the heater when the
> temperature is around 32 degrees Fahrenheit keeping flow through the
> heater lines working. And since at Sea Level (which most places in
> the UK are close to) propane boils at -35 or so, if he is using the
> correct antifreeze it should never freeze in the coolant passage even
> then.
>
>
> RTFM, Bill, or talk to some Propane Professionals, there are many in
> California AFAIK.

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

I remember some of those early NOx kits, injected above the carb rather than
below. They caused a real threat of frozen butterflies.

"Ted Azito" <larboard34@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b53da461.0409021909.1a6e6839@posting.google.c om...
> From 0IIIIIII0:
>
> The company that made the conversion kit for you are use special
> materials. Like the carburetor your using isn't the stock gasoline one
> your car came with, as the first kits here in California, that froze,
> in
> ninety degree weather. Remember like your Air Conditioning you are
> releasing gas under pressure, which freezes. A friend was killed a
> couple of years ago with a similar gas, nitrous froze full throttle.
> Learn never use it for more than ten seconds.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>
>
> Then:
> The old El Camino and a Dodge burned because the valves were not
> converted to steel inserts to use unleaded fuel. Their engines were
> total junk by the time they fired back through the carburetor.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>
> Here's why Bill is ----ed between the ears:
>
> 1. How does Bill know these engines weren't fitted with Stellite (not
> steel:Stellite is the preferred seat, although steel exists)inserts?
> In point of fact the RV outfit that sold Uncle Dummy the Dodge
> conversion DID put on a completely reworked head with performance
> valves, Stellite inserts, and an aluminized header, and allegedly
> ported and polished it as well. The Chev was a '75 with unleaded heads
> and cat con so you couldn't run lead anyway (unless you punched the
> catcon).
>
> However...
>
> 2. It isn't necessary, as long as the engine is occasionally operated
> on leaded gas. The lead works its way into the seats-and back
> out-slowly.
>
> 3. The unhardened cast iron seats are going to wear out with or
> without lead. Lead slows it down some but the difference is probably
> 50,000 vs. 75,000 miles between a valve job. Usually people with dual
> fuel had no issue and straight propane swaps would run them until they
> needed doing anyway and swap head(s) (faster to build up junkyard
> cores and swap'em out) when it was needed. An engine with bad seats
> and valve heads but a clean lower end is not total junk, it just needs
> a valve job. But neither of these did. Both engine fires occurred with
> less than ten thousand miles on the vehicles.
>
> 4. The fires stopped after the second one when Uncle Dummy learned
> not to plunge that handle in like that. He drove the El Camino until
> he died and the Dodge until it (the RV part) fell apart and it was
> converted into a stakebed.
>
> 5. There are no special gasoline carburetors made for dual fuel
> conversions. They might change a vent or power valve or choke assembly
> but that's it.
>
> 6. N2O, nitrous oxide, is not a similar gas to propane. They are
> chemically dissimilar and they are used in very different ways. Your
> friend _----ed up_ by not hitting the ignition, he panicked. (He also
> ----ed up by not putting a big kill button on the dash or wheel as
> Drag Cars have.) I'm sorry it happened but it had _no_ relationship to
> propane whatsoever. It's irrelevant, totally and completely, to this
> discussion. And for the record the gas, whether propane, N2O, or
> Freon, _does not_ freeze. Not on this earth. (Maybe on
> Jupiter.)Atmospheric water condenses and then freezes.
>
> 7. The Vaporizer won't freeze if you plumb its water supply so that
> it always has hot water regardless of thermostat position. They do
> this in various ways. Usually most people run the heater when the
> temperature is around 32 degrees Fahrenheit keeping flow through the
> heater lines working. And since at Sea Level (which most places in
> the UK are close to) propane boils at -35 or so, if he is using the
> correct antifreeze it should never freeze in the coolant passage even
> then.
>
>
> RTFM, Bill, or talk to some Propane Professionals, there are many in
> California AFAIK.

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

I remember some of those early NOx kits, injected above the carb rather than
below. They caused a real threat of frozen butterflies.

"Ted Azito" <larboard34@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b53da461.0409021909.1a6e6839@posting.google.c om...
> From 0IIIIIII0:
>
> The company that made the conversion kit for you are use special
> materials. Like the carburetor your using isn't the stock gasoline one
> your car came with, as the first kits here in California, that froze,
> in
> ninety degree weather. Remember like your Air Conditioning you are
> releasing gas under pressure, which freezes. A friend was killed a
> couple of years ago with a similar gas, nitrous froze full throttle.
> Learn never use it for more than ten seconds.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>
>
> Then:
> The old El Camino and a Dodge burned because the valves were not
> converted to steel inserts to use unleaded fuel. Their engines were
> total junk by the time they fired back through the carburetor.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>
> Here's why Bill is ----ed between the ears:
>
> 1. How does Bill know these engines weren't fitted with Stellite (not
> steel:Stellite is the preferred seat, although steel exists)inserts?
> In point of fact the RV outfit that sold Uncle Dummy the Dodge
> conversion DID put on a completely reworked head with performance
> valves, Stellite inserts, and an aluminized header, and allegedly
> ported and polished it as well. The Chev was a '75 with unleaded heads
> and cat con so you couldn't run lead anyway (unless you punched the
> catcon).
>
> However...
>
> 2. It isn't necessary, as long as the engine is occasionally operated
> on leaded gas. The lead works its way into the seats-and back
> out-slowly.
>
> 3. The unhardened cast iron seats are going to wear out with or
> without lead. Lead slows it down some but the difference is probably
> 50,000 vs. 75,000 miles between a valve job. Usually people with dual
> fuel had no issue and straight propane swaps would run them until they
> needed doing anyway and swap head(s) (faster to build up junkyard
> cores and swap'em out) when it was needed. An engine with bad seats
> and valve heads but a clean lower end is not total junk, it just needs
> a valve job. But neither of these did. Both engine fires occurred with
> less than ten thousand miles on the vehicles.
>
> 4. The fires stopped after the second one when Uncle Dummy learned
> not to plunge that handle in like that. He drove the El Camino until
> he died and the Dodge until it (the RV part) fell apart and it was
> converted into a stakebed.
>
> 5. There are no special gasoline carburetors made for dual fuel
> conversions. They might change a vent or power valve or choke assembly
> but that's it.
>
> 6. N2O, nitrous oxide, is not a similar gas to propane. They are
> chemically dissimilar and they are used in very different ways. Your
> friend _----ed up_ by not hitting the ignition, he panicked. (He also
> ----ed up by not putting a big kill button on the dash or wheel as
> Drag Cars have.) I'm sorry it happened but it had _no_ relationship to
> propane whatsoever. It's irrelevant, totally and completely, to this
> discussion. And for the record the gas, whether propane, N2O, or
> Freon, _does not_ freeze. Not on this earth. (Maybe on
> Jupiter.)Atmospheric water condenses and then freezes.
>
> 7. The Vaporizer won't freeze if you plumb its water supply so that
> it always has hot water regardless of thermostat position. They do
> this in various ways. Usually most people run the heater when the
> temperature is around 32 degrees Fahrenheit keeping flow through the
> heater lines working. And since at Sea Level (which most places in
> the UK are close to) propane boils at -35 or so, if he is using the
> correct antifreeze it should never freeze in the coolant passage even
> then.
>
>
> RTFM, Bill, or talk to some Propane Professionals, there are many in
> California AFAIK.

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

The solenoids are what froze on the friend's, he could still shut
the butterflies but it was full speed ahead until he ran out of road and
hit a Honda quad burm. The kits have bottle heaters now, like this
switch is design to control:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...919898231&rd=1
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

MacIntosh wrote:
>
> I remember some of those early NOx kits, injected above the carb rather than
> below. They caused a real threat of frozen butterflies.

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

The solenoids are what froze on the friend's, he could still shut
the butterflies but it was full speed ahead until he ran out of road and
hit a Honda quad burm. The kits have bottle heaters now, like this
switch is design to control:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...919898231&rd=1
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

MacIntosh wrote:
>
> I remember some of those early NOx kits, injected above the carb rather than
> below. They caused a real threat of frozen butterflies.

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

The solenoids are what froze on the friend's, he could still shut
the butterflies but it was full speed ahead until he ran out of road and
hit a Honda quad burm. The kits have bottle heaters now, like this
switch is design to control:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...919898231&rd=1
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

MacIntosh wrote:
>
> I remember some of those early NOx kits, injected above the carb rather than
> below. They caused a real threat of frozen butterflies.

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

The throttle plates are what freezes under compressed gas.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> The solenoids are what froze on the friend's, he could still shut
> the butterflies but it was full speed ahead until he ran out of road and
> hit a Honda quad burm. The kits have bottle heaters now, like this
> switch is design to control:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...919898231&rd=1
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

The throttle plates are what freezes under compressed gas.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> The solenoids are what froze on the friend's, he could still shut
> the butterflies but it was full speed ahead until he ran out of road and
> hit a Honda quad burm. The kits have bottle heaters now, like this
> switch is design to control:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...919898231&rd=1
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

The throttle plates are what freezes under compressed gas.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> The solenoids are what froze on the friend's, he could still shut
> the butterflies but it was full speed ahead until he ran out of road and
> hit a Honda quad burm. The kits have bottle heaters now, like this
> switch is design to control:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...919898231&rd=1
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

larboard34@hotmail.com (Ted Azito) wrote in message news:<b53da461.0409021909.1a6e6839@posting.google. com>...
> Here's why Bill is ----ed between the ears:

ya know....because of the manner in which you have presented your
argument you lost before i got past your subject header.

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

larboard34@hotmail.com (Ted Azito) wrote in message news:<b53da461.0409021909.1a6e6839@posting.google. com>...
> Here's why Bill is ----ed between the ears:

ya know....because of the manner in which you have presented your
argument you lost before i got past your subject header.

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

larboard34@hotmail.com (Ted Azito) wrote in message news:<b53da461.0409021909.1a6e6839@posting.google. com>...
> Here's why Bill is ----ed between the ears:

ya know....because of the manner in which you have presented your
argument you lost before i got past your subject header.

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

montanajeeper@aol.com (MontanaJeeper) wrote in message news:<c1e32590.0409032047.47a6d58e@posting.google. com>...
> larboard34@hotmail.com (Ted Azito) wrote in message news:<b53da461.0409021909.1a6e6839@posting.google. com>...
> > Here's why Bill is ----ed between the ears:
>
> ya know....because of the manner in which you have presented your
> argument you lost before i got past your subject header.


Yeah, I hate to be ignorant like that, but it was obvious reason,
common sense and a polite appeal to reality were getting nowhere, and
fast. He was posting total nonsense. No propane installation ever
froze up at WOT. It, as far as I can determine, never happened, and
really couldn't. Then he comes up with this stuff about Nitrous Oxide.
So what was I to do?

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

montanajeeper@aol.com (MontanaJeeper) wrote in message news:<c1e32590.0409032047.47a6d58e@posting.google. com>...
> larboard34@hotmail.com (Ted Azito) wrote in message news:<b53da461.0409021909.1a6e6839@posting.google. com>...
> > Here's why Bill is ----ed between the ears:
>
> ya know....because of the manner in which you have presented your
> argument you lost before i got past your subject header.


Yeah, I hate to be ignorant like that, but it was obvious reason,
common sense and a polite appeal to reality were getting nowhere, and
fast. He was posting total nonsense. No propane installation ever
froze up at WOT. It, as far as I can determine, never happened, and
really couldn't. Then he comes up with this stuff about Nitrous Oxide.
So what was I to do?

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

montanajeeper@aol.com (MontanaJeeper) wrote in message news:<c1e32590.0409032047.47a6d58e@posting.google. com>...
> larboard34@hotmail.com (Ted Azito) wrote in message news:<b53da461.0409021909.1a6e6839@posting.google. com>...
> > Here's why Bill is ----ed between the ears:
>
> ya know....because of the manner in which you have presented your
> argument you lost before i got past your subject header.


Yeah, I hate to be ignorant like that, but it was obvious reason,
common sense and a polite appeal to reality were getting nowhere, and
fast. He was posting total nonsense. No propane installation ever
froze up at WOT. It, as far as I can determine, never happened, and
really couldn't. Then he comes up with this stuff about Nitrous Oxide.
So what was I to do?

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

Basic high school chemistry would tell the most ignorant student
that released pressure will cool, gas because it expands more will
freeze quicker, and that has nothing to do with atmospheric temperature.
Go back to school little girlie boy, you don't' want to be stupid all
your life.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Ted Azito wrote:
>
> Yeah, I hate to be ignorant like that, but it was obvious reason,
> common sense and a polite appeal to reality were getting nowhere, and
> fast. He was posting total nonsense. No propane installation ever
> froze up at WOT. It, as far as I can determine, never happened, and
> really couldn't. Then he comes up with this stuff about Nitrous Oxide.
> So what was I to do?

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

Basic high school chemistry would tell the most ignorant student
that released pressure will cool, gas because it expands more will
freeze quicker, and that has nothing to do with atmospheric temperature.
Go back to school little girlie boy, you don't' want to be stupid all
your life.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Ted Azito wrote:
>
> Yeah, I hate to be ignorant like that, but it was obvious reason,
> common sense and a polite appeal to reality were getting nowhere, and
> fast. He was posting total nonsense. No propane installation ever
> froze up at WOT. It, as far as I can determine, never happened, and
> really couldn't. Then he comes up with this stuff about Nitrous Oxide.
> So what was I to do?

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

Basic high school chemistry would tell the most ignorant student
that released pressure will cool, gas because it expands more will
freeze quicker, and that has nothing to do with atmospheric temperature.
Go back to school little girlie boy, you don't' want to be stupid all
your life.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Ted Azito wrote:
>
> Yeah, I hate to be ignorant like that, but it was obvious reason,
> common sense and a polite appeal to reality were getting nowhere, and
> fast. He was posting total nonsense. No propane installation ever
> froze up at WOT. It, as far as I can determine, never happened, and
> really couldn't. Then he comes up with this stuff about Nitrous Oxide.
> So what was I to do?

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

L.W. ("ßill") ------ III did pass the time by typing:
> Basic high school chemistry would tell the most ignorant student
> that released pressure will cool, gas because it expands more will
> freeze quicker, and that has nothing to do with atmospheric temperature.
> Go back to school little girlie boy, you don't' want to be stupid all
> your life.

Ted never ran an old propane/diesel tractor in cool and humid weather.
They ice up and stick without a heat riser or hot air intake and can
literally run away till things warm up.

Propane similar to NO is stored as a liquid under pressure. NO is stored
at a much higher pressure than propane. P1V1/T1 = P2V2/T2 i.e. the
greater the pressure drop the greater the temperature drop. Part of the
boost caused by NO is due to the cooling effect and resulting increased
density of the air/fuel charge. For almost all NO installations the injection
is under the TB or carb. For a propane retrofit it is always before the
TB or carb. That's the issue. Given the right conditions a propane vehicle
will cool the intake air enough to cause ice to form on the butterfly.

> Ted Azito wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, I hate to be ignorant like that, but it was obvious reason,
>> common sense and a polite appeal to reality were getting nowhere, and
>> fast. He was posting total nonsense. No propane installation ever
>> froze up at WOT. It, as far as I can determine, never happened, and
>> really couldn't. Then he comes up with this stuff about Nitrous Oxide.
>> So what was I to do?

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

L.W. ("ßill") ------ III did pass the time by typing:
> Basic high school chemistry would tell the most ignorant student
> that released pressure will cool, gas because it expands more will
> freeze quicker, and that has nothing to do with atmospheric temperature.
> Go back to school little girlie boy, you don't' want to be stupid all
> your life.

Ted never ran an old propane/diesel tractor in cool and humid weather.
They ice up and stick without a heat riser or hot air intake and can
literally run away till things warm up.

Propane similar to NO is stored as a liquid under pressure. NO is stored
at a much higher pressure than propane. P1V1/T1 = P2V2/T2 i.e. the
greater the pressure drop the greater the temperature drop. Part of the
boost caused by NO is due to the cooling effect and resulting increased
density of the air/fuel charge. For almost all NO installations the injection
is under the TB or carb. For a propane retrofit it is always before the
TB or carb. That's the issue. Given the right conditions a propane vehicle
will cool the intake air enough to cause ice to form on the butterfly.

> Ted Azito wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, I hate to be ignorant like that, but it was obvious reason,
>> common sense and a polite appeal to reality were getting nowhere, and
>> fast. He was posting total nonsense. No propane installation ever
>> froze up at WOT. It, as far as I can determine, never happened, and
>> really couldn't. Then he comes up with this stuff about Nitrous Oxide.
>> So what was I to do?

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

L.W. ("ßill") ------ III did pass the time by typing:
> Basic high school chemistry would tell the most ignorant student
> that released pressure will cool, gas because it expands more will
> freeze quicker, and that has nothing to do with atmospheric temperature.
> Go back to school little girlie boy, you don't' want to be stupid all
> your life.

Ted never ran an old propane/diesel tractor in cool and humid weather.
They ice up and stick without a heat riser or hot air intake and can
literally run away till things warm up.

Propane similar to NO is stored as a liquid under pressure. NO is stored
at a much higher pressure than propane. P1V1/T1 = P2V2/T2 i.e. the
greater the pressure drop the greater the temperature drop. Part of the
boost caused by NO is due to the cooling effect and resulting increased
density of the air/fuel charge. For almost all NO installations the injection
is under the TB or carb. For a propane retrofit it is always before the
TB or carb. That's the issue. Given the right conditions a propane vehicle
will cool the intake air enough to cause ice to form on the butterfly.

> Ted Azito wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, I hate to be ignorant like that, but it was obvious reason,
>> common sense and a polite appeal to reality were getting nowhere, and
>> fast. He was posting total nonsense. No propane installation ever
>> froze up at WOT. It, as far as I can determine, never happened, and
>> really couldn't. Then he comes up with this stuff about Nitrous Oxide.
>> So what was I to do?

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

Propane vehicles feed the Propane under pressure to a vaporizer, which
uses engine coolant to heat the propane. If it's going to freeze up
anywhere, it's going to be here-where propane takes the heat of
vaporization.

Frozen throttle bodies just haven't been a problem with propane
installations. Frozen coolant passages in vaporizers, evidently yes.
Carb fires in dual fuel installations, definitely. But no one in the
LP vehicle industry I have been able to find has ever heard of frozen
throttles.

Propane in short has problems-problems that can be solved, just like
gasoline has. Gasoline is not necessarily the best fuel, it's just the
one that's been the most available. If alcohols, kerosenes, heavy fuel
oils, or condensable gases were available much cheaper, and the
government didn't get in the way, we'd find ways to burn them and be
happy. Indeed, people have.

(I'm not sure what you mean by a propane-diesel tractor. Compression
ignition engines cannot burn propane as a primary fuel,because diesel
injection systems aren't capable of handling what is essentially a
cryofuel and because propane is a very low cetane fuel. (Low
cetane~=high octane). Either it's used as a fumigant auxilliary fuel
for power augmentation and smoke abatement (which works well if not
overdone) or you drop the compression, put in a spark plug, and fit a
throttled propane mixer and run it as a spark ignition engine.)

But then you get these fat pompous channelmasters who think they know
everything and they just like to badmouth anything that isn't the
status quo. I think it's because they are really afraid if they had to
go back and work out anything from first principles they'd be shown up
for what they are.

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

Propane vehicles feed the Propane under pressure to a vaporizer, which
uses engine coolant to heat the propane. If it's going to freeze up
anywhere, it's going to be here-where propane takes the heat of
vaporization.

Frozen throttle bodies just haven't been a problem with propane
installations. Frozen coolant passages in vaporizers, evidently yes.
Carb fires in dual fuel installations, definitely. But no one in the
LP vehicle industry I have been able to find has ever heard of frozen
throttles.

Propane in short has problems-problems that can be solved, just like
gasoline has. Gasoline is not necessarily the best fuel, it's just the
one that's been the most available. If alcohols, kerosenes, heavy fuel
oils, or condensable gases were available much cheaper, and the
government didn't get in the way, we'd find ways to burn them and be
happy. Indeed, people have.

(I'm not sure what you mean by a propane-diesel tractor. Compression
ignition engines cannot burn propane as a primary fuel,because diesel
injection systems aren't capable of handling what is essentially a
cryofuel and because propane is a very low cetane fuel. (Low
cetane~=high octane). Either it's used as a fumigant auxilliary fuel
for power augmentation and smoke abatement (which works well if not
overdone) or you drop the compression, put in a spark plug, and fit a
throttled propane mixer and run it as a spark ignition engine.)

But then you get these fat pompous channelmasters who think they know
everything and they just like to badmouth anything that isn't the
status quo. I think it's because they are really afraid if they had to
go back and work out anything from first principles they'd be shown up
for what they are.

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

Propane vehicles feed the Propane under pressure to a vaporizer, which
uses engine coolant to heat the propane. If it's going to freeze up
anywhere, it's going to be here-where propane takes the heat of
vaporization.

Frozen throttle bodies just haven't been a problem with propane
installations. Frozen coolant passages in vaporizers, evidently yes.
Carb fires in dual fuel installations, definitely. But no one in the
LP vehicle industry I have been able to find has ever heard of frozen
throttles.

Propane in short has problems-problems that can be solved, just like
gasoline has. Gasoline is not necessarily the best fuel, it's just the
one that's been the most available. If alcohols, kerosenes, heavy fuel
oils, or condensable gases were available much cheaper, and the
government didn't get in the way, we'd find ways to burn them and be
happy. Indeed, people have.

(I'm not sure what you mean by a propane-diesel tractor. Compression
ignition engines cannot burn propane as a primary fuel,because diesel
injection systems aren't capable of handling what is essentially a
cryofuel and because propane is a very low cetane fuel. (Low
cetane~=high octane). Either it's used as a fumigant auxilliary fuel
for power augmentation and smoke abatement (which works well if not
overdone) or you drop the compression, put in a spark plug, and fit a
throttled propane mixer and run it as a spark ignition engine.)

But then you get these fat pompous channelmasters who think they know
everything and they just like to badmouth anything that isn't the
status quo. I think it's because they are really afraid if they had to
go back and work out anything from first principles they'd be shown up
for what they are.

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...p-7284/c-10101
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Ted Azito wrote:
><snip girlie boy babble>
>
> (I'm not sure what you mean by a propane-diesel tractor. Compression
> ignition engines cannot burn propane as a primary fuel,because diesel
> injection systems aren't capable of handling what is essentially a
> cryofuel and because propane is a very low cetane fuel. (Low
> cetane~=high octane). Either it's used as a fumigant auxilliary fuel
> for power augmentation and smoke abatement (which works well if not
> overdone) or you drop the compression, put in a spark plug, and fit a
> throttled propane mixer and run it as a spark ignition engine.)

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...p-7284/c-10101
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Ted Azito wrote:
><snip girlie boy babble>
>
> (I'm not sure what you mean by a propane-diesel tractor. Compression
> ignition engines cannot burn propane as a primary fuel,because diesel
> injection systems aren't capable of handling what is essentially a
> cryofuel and because propane is a very low cetane fuel. (Low
> cetane~=high octane). Either it's used as a fumigant auxilliary fuel
> for power augmentation and smoke abatement (which works well if not
> overdone) or you drop the compression, put in a spark plug, and fit a
> throttled propane mixer and run it as a spark ignition engine.)

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...p-7284/c-10101
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Ted Azito wrote:
><snip girlie boy babble>
>
> (I'm not sure what you mean by a propane-diesel tractor. Compression
> ignition engines cannot burn propane as a primary fuel,because diesel
> injection systems aren't capable of handling what is essentially a
> cryofuel and because propane is a very low cetane fuel. (Low
> cetane~=high octane). Either it's used as a fumigant auxilliary fuel
> for power augmentation and smoke abatement (which works well if not
> overdone) or you drop the compression, put in a spark plug, and fit a
> throttled propane mixer and run it as a spark ignition engine.)

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

Perfect for when you want rooster tails of dirt while plowing your field.

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:413D0BD8.EFC3AAFA@cox.net...
>
> http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...p-7284/c-10101
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Ted Azito wrote:
> ><snip girlie boy babble>
> >
> > (I'm not sure what you mean by a propane-diesel tractor. Compression
> > ignition engines cannot burn propane as a primary fuel,because diesel
> > injection systems aren't capable of handling what is essentially a
> > cryofuel and because propane is a very low cetane fuel. (Low
> > cetane~=high octane). Either it's used as a fumigant auxilliary fuel
> > for power augmentation and smoke abatement (which works well if not
> > overdone) or you drop the compression, put in a spark plug, and fit a
> > throttled propane mixer and run it as a spark ignition engine.)

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

Perfect for when you want rooster tails of dirt while plowing your field.

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:413D0BD8.EFC3AAFA@cox.net...
>
> http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...p-7284/c-10101
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Ted Azito wrote:
> ><snip girlie boy babble>
> >
> > (I'm not sure what you mean by a propane-diesel tractor. Compression
> > ignition engines cannot burn propane as a primary fuel,because diesel
> > injection systems aren't capable of handling what is essentially a
> > cryofuel and because propane is a very low cetane fuel. (Low
> > cetane~=high octane). Either it's used as a fumigant auxilliary fuel
> > for power augmentation and smoke abatement (which works well if not
> > overdone) or you drop the compression, put in a spark plug, and fit a
> > throttled propane mixer and run it as a spark ignition engine.)

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

Perfect for when you want rooster tails of dirt while plowing your field.

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:413D0BD8.EFC3AAFA@cox.net...
>
> http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...p-7284/c-10101
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Ted Azito wrote:
> ><snip girlie boy babble>
> >
> > (I'm not sure what you mean by a propane-diesel tractor. Compression
> > ignition engines cannot burn propane as a primary fuel,because diesel
> > injection systems aren't capable of handling what is essentially a
> > cryofuel and because propane is a very low cetane fuel. (Low
> > cetane~=high octane). Either it's used as a fumigant auxilliary fuel
> > for power augmentation and smoke abatement (which works well if not
> > overdone) or you drop the compression, put in a spark plug, and fit a
> > throttled propane mixer and run it as a spark ignition engine.)

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

Matt Macchiarolo did pass the time by typing:
> Perfect for when you want rooster tails of dirt while plowing your field.

Or tractor pulls. :)

> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" wrote...
>>
>> http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...p-7284/c-10101

Now where did I put that link for the 4x4 tearing down the drag strip....

Foo. It was here but it went bye bye. :(
http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/p.degreef/movies.htm

--
DougW

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

Matt Macchiarolo did pass the time by typing:
> Perfect for when you want rooster tails of dirt while plowing your field.

Or tractor pulls. :)

> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" wrote...
>>
>> http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...p-7284/c-10101

Now where did I put that link for the 4x4 tearing down the drag strip....

Foo. It was here but it went bye bye. :(
http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/p.degreef/movies.htm

--
DougW

Re: Quit Being A Goddamn Idiot, Bill Hughes!!
 

Matt Macchiarolo did pass the time by typing:
> Perfect for when you want rooster tails of dirt while plowing your field.

Or tractor pulls. :)

> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" wrote...
>>
>> http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...p-7284/c-10101

Now where did I put that link for the 4x4 tearing down the drag strip....

Foo. It was here but it went bye bye. :(
http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/p.degreef/movies.htm

--
DougW