Tom Greening

Maybe maybe not, but in any case that's why I recommended he make sure
everything underneath was "up to specs". If I understood the original post,
none of these symptoms were present until just after he swapped out springs,
so I doubt the busted steering box or broken frame. At worst loose u-bolts
someplace but I'd guess the odds of him forgetting to tighten ubolts or
replace bad bushings are slim. Possible, but slim.


"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:432583AF.514BF328@sympatico.ca...
> I disagree!
>
> The last person I know to change springs had the exact symptoms. He
> didn't worry until he was lost, 25 miles from the nearest phone, in a
> swamp when that loose U-bolt let the axle move back far enough for his
> driveshaft to fall out. It also snapped the spring pack's centering pin
> while it was at it. That was Norm Mitchell from this group. He was
> lucky and heard us on the CB in the area so we tracked him down and
> helped.
>
> Something is broken or loose to have those symptoms and it isn't a drag
> link....
>
> A snapped frame can also cause those symptoms....
>
> A steering box snapped loose from the frame can cause those symptoms....
>
> A missing or dead bushing in a main leaf's anchor end can cause those
> symptoms....
>
> Or a loose spring pack U-bolt.
>
> A dead track bar on a coil sprung unit can also cause them.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
>
> Tom Greening wrote:
> >
> > I'd have to go with the draglink still. It's hard to give a definitive
> > answer from the confines of my LazyBoy, but at the very least I'd say
> > adjusting your draglink will bring the wheel back to center during
actual
> > driving. I'd still wager the at rest issue is a steering component
> > friction/flex issue and wouldn't worry too much about it. Look it all
over
> > to make sure everything is within spec, adjust the link, and forget
about
> > it.
> >
> > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:g8OdnV8Y7cJln7jeRVn-3w@comcast.com...
> > > When i stop, the wheel remains mostly as off center as it was when I
was
> > > driving. However, when stopped, if I center the wheel the wheels
remain
> > > straight.
> > >
> > > Carl
> > >
> > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > news:CX6Ve.14371$uD6.5371@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
> > > > I don't really know. Maybe when you are at rest there is enough
> > friction
> > > in
> > > > the tires, and enough flex in the steering components to allow wheel
> > > > movement without tire movement. Once you start to move, things
> > "settle".
> > > >
> > > > Are you saying that if you are driving along on a straight and
level,
> > your
> > > > wheel is off center, but as soon as you stop it moves back to
center?
> > > > Doesn't make sense to me.
> > > >
> > > > I'd take a look-see at the draglink. I know when I did my SOA I
added a
> > > > drop pitman to get it back to decent angle, and had to get another
> > > draglink
> > > > that had more adjustment length to it. By the time I adjusted the
> > factory
> > > > one out to where my wheel was centered, there were only about 1/2"
of
> > > > threads holding the whole mess together.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:hZmdnfrzZdWZeLneRVn-1w@comcast.com...
> > > > > I all ready did a spring-over on it, lifting it 5.5". It's also
got 1"
> > > of
> > > > > shackle lift, giving it 6.5". Now with the new springs, it's at
about
> > > > 7-8".
> > > > > I put a 4" drop pitman arm on to correct the steering. Usually
with a
> > > bad
> > > > > alignment, isn't the steering off ALL the time? ie, when stopped
or
> > > > moving?
> > > > >
> > > > > Carl
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:Sp5Ve.14351$uD6.821@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> > > > > > Haven't you in actually "lifted" your vehicle, thereby changing
the
> > > > > > effective length of the draglink, which is going to affect the
> > > > orientation
> > > > > > of "straight ahead" in relation to steering wheel position?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:xY6dndkIwrNXKrneRVn-pw@comcast.com...
> > > > > > > Since when does 1 more inch cause steering problems?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now for the problems!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When the Jeep is on the ground, steering wheel straight =
tires
> > > > > straight.
> > > > > > > When the Jeep is moving, the steering wheel is 1/4 turn to the
> > > right.
> > > > > > > Braking it doesn't pull. Do I just need an alignment?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Other than that, everything works great. No DW, bumpsteer,
vibes,
> > > > > > anything.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Carl
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

Tom Greening

Maybe maybe not, but in any case that's why I recommended he make sure
everything underneath was "up to specs". If I understood the original post,
none of these symptoms were present until just after he swapped out springs,
so I doubt the busted steering box or broken frame. At worst loose u-bolts
someplace but I'd guess the odds of him forgetting to tighten ubolts or
replace bad bushings are slim. Possible, but slim.


"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:432583AF.514BF328@sympatico.ca...
> I disagree!
>
> The last person I know to change springs had the exact symptoms. He
> didn't worry until he was lost, 25 miles from the nearest phone, in a
> swamp when that loose U-bolt let the axle move back far enough for his
> driveshaft to fall out. It also snapped the spring pack's centering pin
> while it was at it. That was Norm Mitchell from this group. He was
> lucky and heard us on the CB in the area so we tracked him down and
> helped.
>
> Something is broken or loose to have those symptoms and it isn't a drag
> link....
>
> A snapped frame can also cause those symptoms....
>
> A steering box snapped loose from the frame can cause those symptoms....
>
> A missing or dead bushing in a main leaf's anchor end can cause those
> symptoms....
>
> Or a loose spring pack U-bolt.
>
> A dead track bar on a coil sprung unit can also cause them.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
>
> Tom Greening wrote:
> >
> > I'd have to go with the draglink still. It's hard to give a definitive
> > answer from the confines of my LazyBoy, but at the very least I'd say
> > adjusting your draglink will bring the wheel back to center during
actual
> > driving. I'd still wager the at rest issue is a steering component
> > friction/flex issue and wouldn't worry too much about it. Look it all
over
> > to make sure everything is within spec, adjust the link, and forget
about
> > it.
> >
> > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:g8OdnV8Y7cJln7jeRVn-3w@comcast.com...
> > > When i stop, the wheel remains mostly as off center as it was when I
was
> > > driving. However, when stopped, if I center the wheel the wheels
remain
> > > straight.
> > >
> > > Carl
> > >
> > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > news:CX6Ve.14371$uD6.5371@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
> > > > I don't really know. Maybe when you are at rest there is enough
> > friction
> > > in
> > > > the tires, and enough flex in the steering components to allow wheel
> > > > movement without tire movement. Once you start to move, things
> > "settle".
> > > >
> > > > Are you saying that if you are driving along on a straight and
level,
> > your
> > > > wheel is off center, but as soon as you stop it moves back to
center?
> > > > Doesn't make sense to me.
> > > >
> > > > I'd take a look-see at the draglink. I know when I did my SOA I
added a
> > > > drop pitman to get it back to decent angle, and had to get another
> > > draglink
> > > > that had more adjustment length to it. By the time I adjusted the
> > factory
> > > > one out to where my wheel was centered, there were only about 1/2"
of
> > > > threads holding the whole mess together.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:hZmdnfrzZdWZeLneRVn-1w@comcast.com...
> > > > > I all ready did a spring-over on it, lifting it 5.5". It's also
got 1"
> > > of
> > > > > shackle lift, giving it 6.5". Now with the new springs, it's at
about
> > > > 7-8".
> > > > > I put a 4" drop pitman arm on to correct the steering. Usually
with a
> > > bad
> > > > > alignment, isn't the steering off ALL the time? ie, when stopped
or
> > > > moving?
> > > > >
> > > > > Carl
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:Sp5Ve.14351$uD6.821@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> > > > > > Haven't you in actually "lifted" your vehicle, thereby changing
the
> > > > > > effective length of the draglink, which is going to affect the
> > > > orientation
> > > > > > of "straight ahead" in relation to steering wheel position?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:xY6dndkIwrNXKrneRVn-pw@comcast.com...
> > > > > > > Since when does 1 more inch cause steering problems?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now for the problems!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When the Jeep is on the ground, steering wheel straight =
tires
> > > > > straight.
> > > > > > > When the Jeep is moving, the steering wheel is 1/4 turn to the
> > > right.
> > > > > > > Braking it doesn't pull. Do I just need an alignment?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Other than that, everything works great. No DW, bumpsteer,
vibes,
> > > > > > anything.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Carl
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

Tom Greening

Maybe maybe not, but in any case that's why I recommended he make sure
everything underneath was "up to specs". If I understood the original post,
none of these symptoms were present until just after he swapped out springs,
so I doubt the busted steering box or broken frame. At worst loose u-bolts
someplace but I'd guess the odds of him forgetting to tighten ubolts or
replace bad bushings are slim. Possible, but slim.


"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:432583AF.514BF328@sympatico.ca...
> I disagree!
>
> The last person I know to change springs had the exact symptoms. He
> didn't worry until he was lost, 25 miles from the nearest phone, in a
> swamp when that loose U-bolt let the axle move back far enough for his
> driveshaft to fall out. It also snapped the spring pack's centering pin
> while it was at it. That was Norm Mitchell from this group. He was
> lucky and heard us on the CB in the area so we tracked him down and
> helped.
>
> Something is broken or loose to have those symptoms and it isn't a drag
> link....
>
> A snapped frame can also cause those symptoms....
>
> A steering box snapped loose from the frame can cause those symptoms....
>
> A missing or dead bushing in a main leaf's anchor end can cause those
> symptoms....
>
> Or a loose spring pack U-bolt.
>
> A dead track bar on a coil sprung unit can also cause them.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
>
> Tom Greening wrote:
> >
> > I'd have to go with the draglink still. It's hard to give a definitive
> > answer from the confines of my LazyBoy, but at the very least I'd say
> > adjusting your draglink will bring the wheel back to center during
actual
> > driving. I'd still wager the at rest issue is a steering component
> > friction/flex issue and wouldn't worry too much about it. Look it all
over
> > to make sure everything is within spec, adjust the link, and forget
about
> > it.
> >
> > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:g8OdnV8Y7cJln7jeRVn-3w@comcast.com...
> > > When i stop, the wheel remains mostly as off center as it was when I
was
> > > driving. However, when stopped, if I center the wheel the wheels
remain
> > > straight.
> > >
> > > Carl
> > >
> > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > news:CX6Ve.14371$uD6.5371@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
> > > > I don't really know. Maybe when you are at rest there is enough
> > friction
> > > in
> > > > the tires, and enough flex in the steering components to allow wheel
> > > > movement without tire movement. Once you start to move, things
> > "settle".
> > > >
> > > > Are you saying that if you are driving along on a straight and
level,
> > your
> > > > wheel is off center, but as soon as you stop it moves back to
center?
> > > > Doesn't make sense to me.
> > > >
> > > > I'd take a look-see at the draglink. I know when I did my SOA I
added a
> > > > drop pitman to get it back to decent angle, and had to get another
> > > draglink
> > > > that had more adjustment length to it. By the time I adjusted the
> > factory
> > > > one out to where my wheel was centered, there were only about 1/2"
of
> > > > threads holding the whole mess together.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:hZmdnfrzZdWZeLneRVn-1w@comcast.com...
> > > > > I all ready did a spring-over on it, lifting it 5.5". It's also
got 1"
> > > of
> > > > > shackle lift, giving it 6.5". Now with the new springs, it's at
about
> > > > 7-8".
> > > > > I put a 4" drop pitman arm on to correct the steering. Usually
with a
> > > bad
> > > > > alignment, isn't the steering off ALL the time? ie, when stopped
or
> > > > moving?
> > > > >
> > > > > Carl
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:Sp5Ve.14351$uD6.821@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> > > > > > Haven't you in actually "lifted" your vehicle, thereby changing
the
> > > > > > effective length of the draglink, which is going to affect the
> > > > orientation
> > > > > > of "straight ahead" in relation to steering wheel position?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:xY6dndkIwrNXKrneRVn-pw@comcast.com...
> > > > > > > Since when does 1 more inch cause steering problems?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now for the problems!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When the Jeep is on the ground, steering wheel straight =
tires
> > > > > straight.
> > > > > > > When the Jeep is moving, the steering wheel is 1/4 turn to the
> > > right.
> > > > > > > Braking it doesn't pull. Do I just need an alignment?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Other than that, everything works great. No DW, bumpsteer,
vibes,
> > > > > > anything.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Carl
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

Mike Romain

Well, I even helped Norm do his spring swap. There were 4 or 5 of us
and we did torque everything correctly, but the 'used' springs reacted
differently than new ones to book torque specs so the u-bolts came loose
anyway.

It certainly isn't something that should be ignored.

His u-bolts can also be 'torqued out'. Once they get stretched once or
twice, they can go soft and never hold a torque again. I think that is
what happened to Norm's.

Technically, leaf spring U-bolts, like head bolts are only supposed to
be used once to avoid this exact thing from happening.

Mike

Tom Greening wrote:
>
> Maybe maybe not, but in any case that's why I recommended he make sure
> everything underneath was "up to specs". If I understood the original post,
> none of these symptoms were present until just after he swapped out springs,
> so I doubt the busted steering box or broken frame. At worst loose u-bolts
> someplace but I'd guess the odds of him forgetting to tighten ubolts or
> replace bad bushings are slim. Possible, but slim.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:432583AF.514BF328@sympatico.ca...
> > I disagree!
> >
> > The last person I know to change springs had the exact symptoms. He
> > didn't worry until he was lost, 25 miles from the nearest phone, in a
> > swamp when that loose U-bolt let the axle move back far enough for his
> > driveshaft to fall out. It also snapped the spring pack's centering pin
> > while it was at it. That was Norm Mitchell from this group. He was
> > lucky and heard us on the CB in the area so we tracked him down and
> > helped.
> >
> > Something is broken or loose to have those symptoms and it isn't a drag
> > link....
> >
> > A snapped frame can also cause those symptoms....
> >
> > A steering box snapped loose from the frame can cause those symptoms....
> >
> > A missing or dead bushing in a main leaf's anchor end can cause those
> > symptoms....
> >
> > Or a loose spring pack U-bolt.
> >
> > A dead track bar on a coil sprung unit can also cause them.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> >
> > Tom Greening wrote:
> > >
> > > I'd have to go with the draglink still. It's hard to give a definitive
> > > answer from the confines of my LazyBoy, but at the very least I'd say
> > > adjusting your draglink will bring the wheel back to center during
> actual
> > > driving. I'd still wager the at rest issue is a steering component
> > > friction/flex issue and wouldn't worry too much about it. Look it all
> over
> > > to make sure everything is within spec, adjust the link, and forget
> about
> > > it.
> > >
> > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:g8OdnV8Y7cJln7jeRVn-3w@comcast.com...
> > > > When i stop, the wheel remains mostly as off center as it was when I
> was
> > > > driving. However, when stopped, if I center the wheel the wheels
> remain
> > > > straight.
> > > >
> > > > Carl
> > > >
> > > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:CX6Ve.14371$uD6.5371@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
> > > > > I don't really know. Maybe when you are at rest there is enough
> > > friction
> > > > in
> > > > > the tires, and enough flex in the steering components to allow wheel
> > > > > movement without tire movement. Once you start to move, things
> > > "settle".
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you saying that if you are driving along on a straight and
> level,
> > > your
> > > > > wheel is off center, but as soon as you stop it moves back to
> center?
> > > > > Doesn't make sense to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd take a look-see at the draglink. I know when I did my SOA I
> added a
> > > > > drop pitman to get it back to decent angle, and had to get another
> > > > draglink
> > > > > that had more adjustment length to it. By the time I adjusted the
> > > factory
> > > > > one out to where my wheel was centered, there were only about 1/2"
> of
> > > > > threads holding the whole mess together.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:hZmdnfrzZdWZeLneRVn-1w@comcast.com...
> > > > > > I all ready did a spring-over on it, lifting it 5.5". It's also
> got 1"
> > > > of
> > > > > > shackle lift, giving it 6.5". Now with the new springs, it's at
> about
> > > > > 7-8".
> > > > > > I put a 4" drop pitman arm on to correct the steering. Usually
> with a
> > > > bad
> > > > > > alignment, isn't the steering off ALL the time? ie, when stopped
> or
> > > > > moving?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Carl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:Sp5Ve.14351$uD6.821@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> > > > > > > Haven't you in actually "lifted" your vehicle, thereby changing
> the
> > > > > > > effective length of the draglink, which is going to affect the
> > > > > orientation
> > > > > > > of "straight ahead" in relation to steering wheel position?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:xY6dndkIwrNXKrneRVn-pw@comcast.com...
> > > > > > > > Since when does 1 more inch cause steering problems?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now for the problems!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > When the Jeep is on the ground, steering wheel straight =
> tires
> > > > > > straight.
> > > > > > > > When the Jeep is moving, the steering wheel is 1/4 turn to the
> > > > right.
> > > > > > > > Braking it doesn't pull. Do I just need an alignment?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Other than that, everything works great. No DW, bumpsteer,
> vibes,
> > > > > > > anything.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Carl
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >

Mike Romain

Well, I even helped Norm do his spring swap. There were 4 or 5 of us
and we did torque everything correctly, but the 'used' springs reacted
differently than new ones to book torque specs so the u-bolts came loose
anyway.

It certainly isn't something that should be ignored.

His u-bolts can also be 'torqued out'. Once they get stretched once or
twice, they can go soft and never hold a torque again. I think that is
what happened to Norm's.

Technically, leaf spring U-bolts, like head bolts are only supposed to
be used once to avoid this exact thing from happening.

Mike

Tom Greening wrote:
>
> Maybe maybe not, but in any case that's why I recommended he make sure
> everything underneath was "up to specs". If I understood the original post,
> none of these symptoms were present until just after he swapped out springs,
> so I doubt the busted steering box or broken frame. At worst loose u-bolts
> someplace but I'd guess the odds of him forgetting to tighten ubolts or
> replace bad bushings are slim. Possible, but slim.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:432583AF.514BF328@sympatico.ca...
> > I disagree!
> >
> > The last person I know to change springs had the exact symptoms. He
> > didn't worry until he was lost, 25 miles from the nearest phone, in a
> > swamp when that loose U-bolt let the axle move back far enough for his
> > driveshaft to fall out. It also snapped the spring pack's centering pin
> > while it was at it. That was Norm Mitchell from this group. He was
> > lucky and heard us on the CB in the area so we tracked him down and
> > helped.
> >
> > Something is broken or loose to have those symptoms and it isn't a drag
> > link....
> >
> > A snapped frame can also cause those symptoms....
> >
> > A steering box snapped loose from the frame can cause those symptoms....
> >
> > A missing or dead bushing in a main leaf's anchor end can cause those
> > symptoms....
> >
> > Or a loose spring pack U-bolt.
> >
> > A dead track bar on a coil sprung unit can also cause them.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> >
> > Tom Greening wrote:
> > >
> > > I'd have to go with the draglink still. It's hard to give a definitive
> > > answer from the confines of my LazyBoy, but at the very least I'd say
> > > adjusting your draglink will bring the wheel back to center during
> actual
> > > driving. I'd still wager the at rest issue is a steering component
> > > friction/flex issue and wouldn't worry too much about it. Look it all
> over
> > > to make sure everything is within spec, adjust the link, and forget
> about
> > > it.
> > >
> > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:g8OdnV8Y7cJln7jeRVn-3w@comcast.com...
> > > > When i stop, the wheel remains mostly as off center as it was when I
> was
> > > > driving. However, when stopped, if I center the wheel the wheels
> remain
> > > > straight.
> > > >
> > > > Carl
> > > >
> > > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:CX6Ve.14371$uD6.5371@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
> > > > > I don't really know. Maybe when you are at rest there is enough
> > > friction
> > > > in
> > > > > the tires, and enough flex in the steering components to allow wheel
> > > > > movement without tire movement. Once you start to move, things
> > > "settle".
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you saying that if you are driving along on a straight and
> level,
> > > your
> > > > > wheel is off center, but as soon as you stop it moves back to
> center?
> > > > > Doesn't make sense to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd take a look-see at the draglink. I know when I did my SOA I
> added a
> > > > > drop pitman to get it back to decent angle, and had to get another
> > > > draglink
> > > > > that had more adjustment length to it. By the time I adjusted the
> > > factory
> > > > > one out to where my wheel was centered, there were only about 1/2"
> of
> > > > > threads holding the whole mess together.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:hZmdnfrzZdWZeLneRVn-1w@comcast.com...
> > > > > > I all ready did a spring-over on it, lifting it 5.5". It's also
> got 1"
> > > > of
> > > > > > shackle lift, giving it 6.5". Now with the new springs, it's at
> about
> > > > > 7-8".
> > > > > > I put a 4" drop pitman arm on to correct the steering. Usually
> with a
> > > > bad
> > > > > > alignment, isn't the steering off ALL the time? ie, when stopped
> or
> > > > > moving?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Carl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:Sp5Ve.14351$uD6.821@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> > > > > > > Haven't you in actually "lifted" your vehicle, thereby changing
> the
> > > > > > > effective length of the draglink, which is going to affect the
> > > > > orientation
> > > > > > > of "straight ahead" in relation to steering wheel position?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:xY6dndkIwrNXKrneRVn-pw@comcast.com...
> > > > > > > > Since when does 1 more inch cause steering problems?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now for the problems!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > When the Jeep is on the ground, steering wheel straight =
> tires
> > > > > > straight.
> > > > > > > > When the Jeep is moving, the steering wheel is 1/4 turn to the
> > > > right.
> > > > > > > > Braking it doesn't pull. Do I just need an alignment?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Other than that, everything works great. No DW, bumpsteer,
> vibes,
> > > > > > > anything.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Carl
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >

Mike Romain

Well, I even helped Norm do his spring swap. There were 4 or 5 of us
and we did torque everything correctly, but the 'used' springs reacted
differently than new ones to book torque specs so the u-bolts came loose
anyway.

It certainly isn't something that should be ignored.

His u-bolts can also be 'torqued out'. Once they get stretched once or
twice, they can go soft and never hold a torque again. I think that is
what happened to Norm's.

Technically, leaf spring U-bolts, like head bolts are only supposed to
be used once to avoid this exact thing from happening.

Mike

Tom Greening wrote:
>
> Maybe maybe not, but in any case that's why I recommended he make sure
> everything underneath was "up to specs". If I understood the original post,
> none of these symptoms were present until just after he swapped out springs,
> so I doubt the busted steering box or broken frame. At worst loose u-bolts
> someplace but I'd guess the odds of him forgetting to tighten ubolts or
> replace bad bushings are slim. Possible, but slim.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:432583AF.514BF328@sympatico.ca...
> > I disagree!
> >
> > The last person I know to change springs had the exact symptoms. He
> > didn't worry until he was lost, 25 miles from the nearest phone, in a
> > swamp when that loose U-bolt let the axle move back far enough for his
> > driveshaft to fall out. It also snapped the spring pack's centering pin
> > while it was at it. That was Norm Mitchell from this group. He was
> > lucky and heard us on the CB in the area so we tracked him down and
> > helped.
> >
> > Something is broken or loose to have those symptoms and it isn't a drag
> > link....
> >
> > A snapped frame can also cause those symptoms....
> >
> > A steering box snapped loose from the frame can cause those symptoms....
> >
> > A missing or dead bushing in a main leaf's anchor end can cause those
> > symptoms....
> >
> > Or a loose spring pack U-bolt.
> >
> > A dead track bar on a coil sprung unit can also cause them.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> >
> > Tom Greening wrote:
> > >
> > > I'd have to go with the draglink still. It's hard to give a definitive
> > > answer from the confines of my LazyBoy, but at the very least I'd say
> > > adjusting your draglink will bring the wheel back to center during
> actual
> > > driving. I'd still wager the at rest issue is a steering component
> > > friction/flex issue and wouldn't worry too much about it. Look it all
> over
> > > to make sure everything is within spec, adjust the link, and forget
> about
> > > it.
> > >
> > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:g8OdnV8Y7cJln7jeRVn-3w@comcast.com...
> > > > When i stop, the wheel remains mostly as off center as it was when I
> was
> > > > driving. However, when stopped, if I center the wheel the wheels
> remain
> > > > straight.
> > > >
> > > > Carl
> > > >
> > > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:CX6Ve.14371$uD6.5371@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
> > > > > I don't really know. Maybe when you are at rest there is enough
> > > friction
> > > > in
> > > > > the tires, and enough flex in the steering components to allow wheel
> > > > > movement without tire movement. Once you start to move, things
> > > "settle".
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you saying that if you are driving along on a straight and
> level,
> > > your
> > > > > wheel is off center, but as soon as you stop it moves back to
> center?
> > > > > Doesn't make sense to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd take a look-see at the draglink. I know when I did my SOA I
> added a
> > > > > drop pitman to get it back to decent angle, and had to get another
> > > > draglink
> > > > > that had more adjustment length to it. By the time I adjusted the
> > > factory
> > > > > one out to where my wheel was centered, there were only about 1/2"
> of
> > > > > threads holding the whole mess together.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:hZmdnfrzZdWZeLneRVn-1w@comcast.com...
> > > > > > I all ready did a spring-over on it, lifting it 5.5". It's also
> got 1"
> > > > of
> > > > > > shackle lift, giving it 6.5". Now with the new springs, it's at
> about
> > > > > 7-8".
> > > > > > I put a 4" drop pitman arm on to correct the steering. Usually
> with a
> > > > bad
> > > > > > alignment, isn't the steering off ALL the time? ie, when stopped
> or
> > > > > moving?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Carl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:Sp5Ve.14351$uD6.821@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> > > > > > > Haven't you in actually "lifted" your vehicle, thereby changing
> the
> > > > > > > effective length of the draglink, which is going to affect the
> > > > > orientation
> > > > > > > of "straight ahead" in relation to steering wheel position?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:xY6dndkIwrNXKrneRVn-pw@comcast.com...
> > > > > > > > Since when does 1 more inch cause steering problems?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now for the problems!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > When the Jeep is on the ground, steering wheel straight =
> tires
> > > > > > straight.
> > > > > > > > When the Jeep is moving, the steering wheel is 1/4 turn to the
> > > > right.
> > > > > > > > Braking it doesn't pull. Do I just need an alignment?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Other than that, everything works great. No DW, bumpsteer,
> vibes,
> > > > > > > anything.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Carl
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >

Mike Romain

Well, I even helped Norm do his spring swap. There were 4 or 5 of us
and we did torque everything correctly, but the 'used' springs reacted
differently than new ones to book torque specs so the u-bolts came loose
anyway.

It certainly isn't something that should be ignored.

His u-bolts can also be 'torqued out'. Once they get stretched once or
twice, they can go soft and never hold a torque again. I think that is
what happened to Norm's.

Technically, leaf spring U-bolts, like head bolts are only supposed to
be used once to avoid this exact thing from happening.

Mike

Tom Greening wrote:
>
> Maybe maybe not, but in any case that's why I recommended he make sure
> everything underneath was "up to specs". If I understood the original post,
> none of these symptoms were present until just after he swapped out springs,
> so I doubt the busted steering box or broken frame. At worst loose u-bolts
> someplace but I'd guess the odds of him forgetting to tighten ubolts or
> replace bad bushings are slim. Possible, but slim.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:432583AF.514BF328@sympatico.ca...
> > I disagree!
> >
> > The last person I know to change springs had the exact symptoms. He
> > didn't worry until he was lost, 25 miles from the nearest phone, in a
> > swamp when that loose U-bolt let the axle move back far enough for his
> > driveshaft to fall out. It also snapped the spring pack's centering pin
> > while it was at it. That was Norm Mitchell from this group. He was
> > lucky and heard us on the CB in the area so we tracked him down and
> > helped.
> >
> > Something is broken or loose to have those symptoms and it isn't a drag
> > link....
> >
> > A snapped frame can also cause those symptoms....
> >
> > A steering box snapped loose from the frame can cause those symptoms....
> >
> > A missing or dead bushing in a main leaf's anchor end can cause those
> > symptoms....
> >
> > Or a loose spring pack U-bolt.
> >
> > A dead track bar on a coil sprung unit can also cause them.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> >
> > Tom Greening wrote:
> > >
> > > I'd have to go with the draglink still. It's hard to give a definitive
> > > answer from the confines of my LazyBoy, but at the very least I'd say
> > > adjusting your draglink will bring the wheel back to center during
> actual
> > > driving. I'd still wager the at rest issue is a steering component
> > > friction/flex issue and wouldn't worry too much about it. Look it all
> over
> > > to make sure everything is within spec, adjust the link, and forget
> about
> > > it.
> > >
> > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:g8OdnV8Y7cJln7jeRVn-3w@comcast.com...
> > > > When i stop, the wheel remains mostly as off center as it was when I
> was
> > > > driving. However, when stopped, if I center the wheel the wheels
> remain
> > > > straight.
> > > >
> > > > Carl
> > > >
> > > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:CX6Ve.14371$uD6.5371@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
> > > > > I don't really know. Maybe when you are at rest there is enough
> > > friction
> > > > in
> > > > > the tires, and enough flex in the steering components to allow wheel
> > > > > movement without tire movement. Once you start to move, things
> > > "settle".
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you saying that if you are driving along on a straight and
> level,
> > > your
> > > > > wheel is off center, but as soon as you stop it moves back to
> center?
> > > > > Doesn't make sense to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd take a look-see at the draglink. I know when I did my SOA I
> added a
> > > > > drop pitman to get it back to decent angle, and had to get another
> > > > draglink
> > > > > that had more adjustment length to it. By the time I adjusted the
> > > factory
> > > > > one out to where my wheel was centered, there were only about 1/2"
> of
> > > > > threads holding the whole mess together.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:hZmdnfrzZdWZeLneRVn-1w@comcast.com...
> > > > > > I all ready did a spring-over on it, lifting it 5.5". It's also
> got 1"
> > > > of
> > > > > > shackle lift, giving it 6.5". Now with the new springs, it's at
> about
> > > > > 7-8".
> > > > > > I put a 4" drop pitman arm on to correct the steering. Usually
> with a
> > > > bad
> > > > > > alignment, isn't the steering off ALL the time? ie, when stopped
> or
> > > > > moving?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Carl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:Sp5Ve.14351$uD6.821@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> > > > > > > Haven't you in actually "lifted" your vehicle, thereby changing
> the
> > > > > > > effective length of the draglink, which is going to affect the
> > > > > orientation
> > > > > > > of "straight ahead" in relation to steering wheel position?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:xY6dndkIwrNXKrneRVn-pw@comcast.com...
> > > > > > > > Since when does 1 more inch cause steering problems?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now for the problems!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > When the Jeep is on the ground, steering wheel straight =
> tires
> > > > > > straight.
> > > > > > > > When the Jeep is moving, the steering wheel is 1/4 turn to the
> > > > right.
> > > > > > > > Braking it doesn't pull. Do I just need an alignment?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Other than that, everything works great. No DW, bumpsteer,
> vibes,
> > > > > > > anything.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Carl
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >

Tom Greening

Hopefully when he finds his fix, he'll post here. I'll be curious to know
the result.



"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:432591A3.3B6EA3E9@sympatico.ca...
> Well, I even helped Norm do his spring swap. There were 4 or 5 of us
> and we did torque everything correctly, but the 'used' springs reacted
> differently than new ones to book torque specs so the u-bolts came loose
> anyway.
>
> It certainly isn't something that should be ignored.
>
> His u-bolts can also be 'torqued out'. Once they get stretched once or
> twice, they can go soft and never hold a torque again. I think that is
> what happened to Norm's.
>
> Technically, leaf spring U-bolts, like head bolts are only supposed to
> be used once to avoid this exact thing from happening.
>
> Mike
>
> Tom Greening wrote:
> >
> > Maybe maybe not, but in any case that's why I recommended he make sure
> > everything underneath was "up to specs". If I understood the original
post,
> > none of these symptoms were present until just after he swapped out
springs,
> > so I doubt the busted steering box or broken frame. At worst loose
u-bolts
> > someplace but I'd guess the odds of him forgetting to tighten ubolts or
> > replace bad bushings are slim. Possible, but slim.
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:432583AF.514BF328@sympatico.ca...
> > > I disagree!
> > >
> > > The last person I know to change springs had the exact symptoms. He
> > > didn't worry until he was lost, 25 miles from the nearest phone, in a
> > > swamp when that loose U-bolt let the axle move back far enough for his
> > > driveshaft to fall out. It also snapped the spring pack's centering
pin
> > > while it was at it. That was Norm Mitchell from this group. He was
> > > lucky and heard us on the CB in the area so we tracked him down and
> > > helped.
> > >
> > > Something is broken or loose to have those symptoms and it isn't a
drag
> > > link....
> > >
> > > A snapped frame can also cause those symptoms....
> > >
> > > A steering box snapped loose from the frame can cause those
symptoms....
> > >
> > > A missing or dead bushing in a main leaf's anchor end can cause those
> > > symptoms....
> > >
> > > Or a loose spring pack U-bolt.
> > >
> > > A dead track bar on a coil sprung unit can also cause them.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > >
> > > Tom Greening wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'd have to go with the draglink still. It's hard to give a
definitive
> > > > answer from the confines of my LazyBoy, but at the very least I'd
say
> > > > adjusting your draglink will bring the wheel back to center during
> > actual
> > > > driving. I'd still wager the at rest issue is a steering component
> > > > friction/flex issue and wouldn't worry too much about it. Look it
all
> > over
> > > > to make sure everything is within spec, adjust the link, and forget
> > about
> > > > it.
> > > >
> > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:g8OdnV8Y7cJln7jeRVn-3w@comcast.com...
> > > > > When i stop, the wheel remains mostly as off center as it was when
I
> > was
> > > > > driving. However, when stopped, if I center the wheel the wheels
> > remain
> > > > > straight.
> > > > >
> > > > > Carl
> > > > >
> > > > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:CX6Ve.14371$uD6.5371@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
> > > > > > I don't really know. Maybe when you are at rest there is enough
> > > > friction
> > > > > in
> > > > > > the tires, and enough flex in the steering components to allow
wheel
> > > > > > movement without tire movement. Once you start to move, things
> > > > "settle".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you saying that if you are driving along on a straight and
> > level,
> > > > your
> > > > > > wheel is off center, but as soon as you stop it moves back to
> > center?
> > > > > > Doesn't make sense to me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd take a look-see at the draglink. I know when I did my SOA I
> > added a
> > > > > > drop pitman to get it back to decent angle, and had to get
another
> > > > > draglink
> > > > > > that had more adjustment length to it. By the time I adjusted
the
> > > > factory
> > > > > > one out to where my wheel was centered, there were only about
1/2"
> > of
> > > > > > threads holding the whole mess together.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:hZmdnfrzZdWZeLneRVn-1w@comcast.com...
> > > > > > > I all ready did a spring-over on it, lifting it 5.5". It's
also
> > got 1"
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > shackle lift, giving it 6.5". Now with the new springs, it's
at
> > about
> > > > > > 7-8".
> > > > > > > I put a 4" drop pitman arm on to correct the steering. Usually
> > with a
> > > > > bad
> > > > > > > alignment, isn't the steering off ALL the time? ie, when
stopped
> > or
> > > > > > moving?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Carl
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:Sp5Ve.14351$uD6.821@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> > > > > > > > Haven't you in actually "lifted" your vehicle, thereby
changing
> > the
> > > > > > > > effective length of the draglink, which is going to affect
the
> > > > > > orientation
> > > > > > > > of "straight ahead" in relation to steering wheel position?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in
message
> > > > > > > > news:xY6dndkIwrNXKrneRVn-pw@comcast.com...
> > > > > > > > > Since when does 1 more inch cause steering problems?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Now for the problems!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > When the Jeep is on the ground, steering wheel straight =
> > tires
> > > > > > > straight.
> > > > > > > > > When the Jeep is moving, the steering wheel is 1/4 turn to
the
> > > > > right.
> > > > > > > > > Braking it doesn't pull. Do I just need an alignment?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Other than that, everything works great. No DW, bumpsteer,
> > vibes,
> > > > > > > > anything.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Carl
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >

Tom Greening

Hopefully when he finds his fix, he'll post here. I'll be curious to know
the result.



"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:432591A3.3B6EA3E9@sympatico.ca...
> Well, I even helped Norm do his spring swap. There were 4 or 5 of us
> and we did torque everything correctly, but the 'used' springs reacted
> differently than new ones to book torque specs so the u-bolts came loose
> anyway.
>
> It certainly isn't something that should be ignored.
>
> His u-bolts can also be 'torqued out'. Once they get stretched once or
> twice, they can go soft and never hold a torque again. I think that is
> what happened to Norm's.
>
> Technically, leaf spring U-bolts, like head bolts are only supposed to
> be used once to avoid this exact thing from happening.
>
> Mike
>
> Tom Greening wrote:
> >
> > Maybe maybe not, but in any case that's why I recommended he make sure
> > everything underneath was "up to specs". If I understood the original
post,
> > none of these symptoms were present until just after he swapped out
springs,
> > so I doubt the busted steering box or broken frame. At worst loose
u-bolts
> > someplace but I'd guess the odds of him forgetting to tighten ubolts or
> > replace bad bushings are slim. Possible, but slim.
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:432583AF.514BF328@sympatico.ca...
> > > I disagree!
> > >
> > > The last person I know to change springs had the exact symptoms. He
> > > didn't worry until he was lost, 25 miles from the nearest phone, in a
> > > swamp when that loose U-bolt let the axle move back far enough for his
> > > driveshaft to fall out. It also snapped the spring pack's centering
pin
> > > while it was at it. That was Norm Mitchell from this group. He was
> > > lucky and heard us on the CB in the area so we tracked him down and
> > > helped.
> > >
> > > Something is broken or loose to have those symptoms and it isn't a
drag
> > > link....
> > >
> > > A snapped frame can also cause those symptoms....
> > >
> > > A steering box snapped loose from the frame can cause those
symptoms....
> > >
> > > A missing or dead bushing in a main leaf's anchor end can cause those
> > > symptoms....
> > >
> > > Or a loose spring pack U-bolt.
> > >
> > > A dead track bar on a coil sprung unit can also cause them.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > >
> > > Tom Greening wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'd have to go with the draglink still. It's hard to give a
definitive
> > > > answer from the confines of my LazyBoy, but at the very least I'd
say
> > > > adjusting your draglink will bring the wheel back to center during
> > actual
> > > > driving. I'd still wager the at rest issue is a steering component
> > > > friction/flex issue and wouldn't worry too much about it. Look it
all
> > over
> > > > to make sure everything is within spec, adjust the link, and forget
> > about
> > > > it.
> > > >
> > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:g8OdnV8Y7cJln7jeRVn-3w@comcast.com...
> > > > > When i stop, the wheel remains mostly as off center as it was when
I
> > was
> > > > > driving. However, when stopped, if I center the wheel the wheels
> > remain
> > > > > straight.
> > > > >
> > > > > Carl
> > > > >
> > > > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:CX6Ve.14371$uD6.5371@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
> > > > > > I don't really know. Maybe when you are at rest there is enough
> > > > friction
> > > > > in
> > > > > > the tires, and enough flex in the steering components to allow
wheel
> > > > > > movement without tire movement. Once you start to move, things
> > > > "settle".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you saying that if you are driving along on a straight and
> > level,
> > > > your
> > > > > > wheel is off center, but as soon as you stop it moves back to
> > center?
> > > > > > Doesn't make sense to me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd take a look-see at the draglink. I know when I did my SOA I
> > added a
> > > > > > drop pitman to get it back to decent angle, and had to get
another
> > > > > draglink
> > > > > > that had more adjustment length to it. By the time I adjusted
the
> > > > factory
> > > > > > one out to where my wheel was centered, there were only about
1/2"
> > of
> > > > > > threads holding the whole mess together.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:hZmdnfrzZdWZeLneRVn-1w@comcast.com...
> > > > > > > I all ready did a spring-over on it, lifting it 5.5". It's
also
> > got 1"
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > shackle lift, giving it 6.5". Now with the new springs, it's
at
> > about
> > > > > > 7-8".
> > > > > > > I put a 4" drop pitman arm on to correct the steering. Usually
> > with a
> > > > > bad
> > > > > > > alignment, isn't the steering off ALL the time? ie, when
stopped
> > or
> > > > > > moving?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Carl
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:Sp5Ve.14351$uD6.821@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> > > > > > > > Haven't you in actually "lifted" your vehicle, thereby
changing
> > the
> > > > > > > > effective length of the draglink, which is going to affect
the
> > > > > > orientation
> > > > > > > > of "straight ahead" in relation to steering wheel position?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in
message
> > > > > > > > news:xY6dndkIwrNXKrneRVn-pw@comcast.com...
> > > > > > > > > Since when does 1 more inch cause steering problems?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Now for the problems!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > When the Jeep is on the ground, steering wheel straight =
> > tires
> > > > > > > straight.
> > > > > > > > > When the Jeep is moving, the steering wheel is 1/4 turn to
the
> > > > > right.
> > > > > > > > > Braking it doesn't pull. Do I just need an alignment?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Other than that, everything works great. No DW, bumpsteer,
> > vibes,
> > > > > > > > anything.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Carl
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >

Tom Greening

Hopefully when he finds his fix, he'll post here. I'll be curious to know
the result.



"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:432591A3.3B6EA3E9@sympatico.ca...
> Well, I even helped Norm do his spring swap. There were 4 or 5 of us
> and we did torque everything correctly, but the 'used' springs reacted
> differently than new ones to book torque specs so the u-bolts came loose
> anyway.
>
> It certainly isn't something that should be ignored.
>
> His u-bolts can also be 'torqued out'. Once they get stretched once or
> twice, they can go soft and never hold a torque again. I think that is
> what happened to Norm's.
>
> Technically, leaf spring U-bolts, like head bolts are only supposed to
> be used once to avoid this exact thing from happening.
>
> Mike
>
> Tom Greening wrote:
> >
> > Maybe maybe not, but in any case that's why I recommended he make sure
> > everything underneath was "up to specs". If I understood the original
post,
> > none of these symptoms were present until just after he swapped out
springs,
> > so I doubt the busted steering box or broken frame. At worst loose
u-bolts
> > someplace but I'd guess the odds of him forgetting to tighten ubolts or
> > replace bad bushings are slim. Possible, but slim.
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:432583AF.514BF328@sympatico.ca...
> > > I disagree!
> > >
> > > The last person I know to change springs had the exact symptoms. He
> > > didn't worry until he was lost, 25 miles from the nearest phone, in a
> > > swamp when that loose U-bolt let the axle move back far enough for his
> > > driveshaft to fall out. It also snapped the spring pack's centering
pin
> > > while it was at it. That was Norm Mitchell from this group. He was
> > > lucky and heard us on the CB in the area so we tracked him down and
> > > helped.
> > >
> > > Something is broken or loose to have those symptoms and it isn't a
drag
> > > link....
> > >
> > > A snapped frame can also cause those symptoms....
> > >
> > > A steering box snapped loose from the frame can cause those
symptoms....
> > >
> > > A missing or dead bushing in a main leaf's anchor end can cause those
> > > symptoms....
> > >
> > > Or a loose spring pack U-bolt.
> > >
> > > A dead track bar on a coil sprung unit can also cause them.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > >
> > > Tom Greening wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'd have to go with the draglink still. It's hard to give a
definitive
> > > > answer from the confines of my LazyBoy, but at the very least I'd
say
> > > > adjusting your draglink will bring the wheel back to center during
> > actual
> > > > driving. I'd still wager the at rest issue is a steering component
> > > > friction/flex issue and wouldn't worry too much about it. Look it
all
> > over
> > > > to make sure everything is within spec, adjust the link, and forget
> > about
> > > > it.
> > > >
> > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:g8OdnV8Y7cJln7jeRVn-3w@comcast.com...
> > > > > When i stop, the wheel remains mostly as off center as it was when
I
> > was
> > > > > driving. However, when stopped, if I center the wheel the wheels
> > remain
> > > > > straight.
> > > > >
> > > > > Carl
> > > > >
> > > > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:CX6Ve.14371$uD6.5371@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
> > > > > > I don't really know. Maybe when you are at rest there is enough
> > > > friction
> > > > > in
> > > > > > the tires, and enough flex in the steering components to allow
wheel
> > > > > > movement without tire movement. Once you start to move, things
> > > > "settle".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you saying that if you are driving along on a straight and
> > level,
> > > > your
> > > > > > wheel is off center, but as soon as you stop it moves back to
> > center?
> > > > > > Doesn't make sense to me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd take a look-see at the draglink. I know when I did my SOA I
> > added a
> > > > > > drop pitman to get it back to decent angle, and had to get
another
> > > > > draglink
> > > > > > that had more adjustment length to it. By the time I adjusted
the
> > > > factory
> > > > > > one out to where my wheel was centered, there were only about
1/2"
> > of
> > > > > > threads holding the whole mess together.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:hZmdnfrzZdWZeLneRVn-1w@comcast.com...
> > > > > > > I all ready did a spring-over on it, lifting it 5.5". It's
also
> > got 1"
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > shackle lift, giving it 6.5". Now with the new springs, it's
at
> > about
> > > > > > 7-8".
> > > > > > > I put a 4" drop pitman arm on to correct the steering. Usually
> > with a
> > > > > bad
> > > > > > > alignment, isn't the steering off ALL the time? ie, when
stopped
> > or
> > > > > > moving?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Carl
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Tom Greening" <tgreen@yohmama.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:Sp5Ve.14351$uD6.821@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> > > > > > > > Haven't you in actually "lifted" your vehicle, thereby
changing
> > the
> > > > > > > > effective length of the draglink, which is going to affect
the
> > > > > > orientation
> > > > > > > > of "straight ahead" in relation to steering wheel position?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in
message
> > > > > > > > news:xY6dndkIwrNXKrneRVn-pw@comcast.com...
> > > > > > > > > Since when does 1 more inch cause steering problems?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Now for the problems!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > When the Jeep is on the ground, steering wheel straight =
> > tires
> > > > > > > straight.
> > > > > > > > > When the Jeep is moving, the steering wheel is 1/4 turn to
the
> > > > > right.
> > > > > > > > > Braking it doesn't pull. Do I just need an alignment?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Other than that, everything works great. No DW, bumpsteer,
> > vibes,
> > > > > > > > anything.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Carl
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >