TO PING OR NOT TO PING?
09-24-2007, 01:37 PM
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Re: TO PING OR NOT TO PING?
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:07:48 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
>I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
>any driving condition.
Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
knowledge of this.
>
>At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
>power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
these higher pressure need more octane
>
>My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
>they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
power is. (you have very low standards)
>
>I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
>I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
>have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
>oranges to a 4.0's systems)
How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
since early 80's.
>
>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>Tracie wrote:
>> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
>>> Quick question...
>>>
>>> 2006 TJ
>>> 6 speed manual
>>> 4.0 liter with I-6
>>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>>>
>>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
>>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
>>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
>>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
>>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
>>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
>>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
>>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
>>> insight?
>>
>> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>>
>> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
>> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
>> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
>> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
>> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
>> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
>> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
>> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
>> It's
>> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
>> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
>> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
>> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
>> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
>> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
>> so
>> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
>> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
>> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
>> this
>> be causing the problem too?
>>
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
wrote:
>I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
>any driving condition.
Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
knowledge of this.
>
>At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
>power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
these higher pressure need more octane
>
>My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
>they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
power is. (you have very low standards)
>
>I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
>I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
>have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
>oranges to a 4.0's systems)
How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
since early 80's.
>
>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>Tracie wrote:
>> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
>>> Quick question...
>>>
>>> 2006 TJ
>>> 6 speed manual
>>> 4.0 liter with I-6
>>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>>>
>>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
>>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
>>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
>>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
>>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
>>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
>>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
>>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
>>> insight?
>>
>> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>>
>> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
>> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
>> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
>> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
>> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
>> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
>> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
>> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
>> It's
>> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
>> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
>> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
>> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
>> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
>> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
>> so
>> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
>> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
>> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
>> this
>> be causing the problem too?
>>
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
09-24-2007, 01:37 PM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Re: TO PING OR NOT TO PING?
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:07:48 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
>I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
>any driving condition.
Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
knowledge of this.
>
>At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
>power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
these higher pressure need more octane
>
>My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
>they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
power is. (you have very low standards)
>
>I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
>I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
>have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
>oranges to a 4.0's systems)
How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
since early 80's.
>
>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>Tracie wrote:
>> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
>>> Quick question...
>>>
>>> 2006 TJ
>>> 6 speed manual
>>> 4.0 liter with I-6
>>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>>>
>>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
>>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
>>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
>>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
>>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
>>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
>>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
>>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
>>> insight?
>>
>> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>>
>> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
>> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
>> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
>> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
>> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
>> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
>> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
>> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
>> It's
>> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
>> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
>> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
>> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
>> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
>> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
>> so
>> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
>> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
>> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
>> this
>> be causing the problem too?
>>
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
wrote:
>I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
>any driving condition.
Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
knowledge of this.
>
>At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
>power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
these higher pressure need more octane
>
>My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
>they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
power is. (you have very low standards)
>
>I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
>I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
>have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
>oranges to a 4.0's systems)
How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
since early 80's.
>
>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>Tracie wrote:
>> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
>>> Quick question...
>>>
>>> 2006 TJ
>>> 6 speed manual
>>> 4.0 liter with I-6
>>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>>>
>>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
>>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
>>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
>>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
>>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
>>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
>>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
>>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
>>> insight?
>>
>> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>>
>> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
>> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
>> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
>> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
>> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
>> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
>> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
>> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
>> It's
>> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
>> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
>> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
>> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
>> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
>> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
>> so
>> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
>> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
>> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
>> this
>> be causing the problem too?
>>
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
09-24-2007, 01:37 PM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Re: TO PING OR NOT TO PING?
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:07:48 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
>I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
>any driving condition.
Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
knowledge of this.
>
>At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
>power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
these higher pressure need more octane
>
>My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
>they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
power is. (you have very low standards)
>
>I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
>I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
>have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
>oranges to a 4.0's systems)
How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
since early 80's.
>
>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>Tracie wrote:
>> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
>>> Quick question...
>>>
>>> 2006 TJ
>>> 6 speed manual
>>> 4.0 liter with I-6
>>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>>>
>>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
>>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
>>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
>>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
>>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
>>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
>>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
>>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
>>> insight?
>>
>> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>>
>> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
>> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
>> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
>> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
>> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
>> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
>> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
>> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
>> It's
>> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
>> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
>> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
>> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
>> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
>> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
>> so
>> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
>> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
>> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
>> this
>> be causing the problem too?
>>
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
wrote:
>I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
>any driving condition.
Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
knowledge of this.
>
>At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
>power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
these higher pressure need more octane
>
>My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
>they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
power is. (you have very low standards)
>
>I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
>I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
>have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
>oranges to a 4.0's systems)
How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
since early 80's.
>
>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>Tracie wrote:
>> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
>>> Quick question...
>>>
>>> 2006 TJ
>>> 6 speed manual
>>> 4.0 liter with I-6
>>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>>>
>>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
>>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
>>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
>>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
>>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
>>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
>>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
>>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
>>> insight?
>>
>> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>>
>> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
>> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
>> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
>> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
>> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
>> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
>> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
>> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
>> It's
>> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
>> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
>> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
>> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
>> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
>> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
>> so
>> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
>> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
>> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
>> this
>> be causing the problem too?
>>
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
09-24-2007, 02:04 PM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TO PING OR NOT TO PING?
On Sep 24, 1:37 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:07:48 -0400, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
> >any driving condition.
>
> Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
> slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
> knowledge of this.
>
>
>
> >At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
> >power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
>
> All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
> torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
> pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
> these higher pressure need more octane
>
>
>
> >My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
> >they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
>
> I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
> is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
> power is. (you have very low standards)
>
>
>
> >I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
>
> Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
>
>
> >I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
> >have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
> >oranges to a 4.0's systems)
>
> How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
> humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
> oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
> and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
> What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
> all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
> since early 80's.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Mike
> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> >Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> >(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> >Tracie wrote:
> >> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> >>> Quick question...
>
> >>> 2006 TJ
> >>> 6 speed manual
> >>> 4.0 liter with I-6
> >>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>
> >>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
> >>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
> >>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
> >>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
> >>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
> >>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
> >>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
> >>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
> >>> insight?
>
> >> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>
> >> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
> >> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
> >> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
> >> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
> >> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
> >> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
> >> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
> >> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
> >> It's
> >> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
> >> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
> >> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
> >> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
> >> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
> >> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
> >> so
> >> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
> >> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
> >> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
> >> this
> >> be causing the problem too?
>
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for the quick responses.
SnoMan --
You're right, I really don't have much knowledge of what causes
pinging. I really do appreciate the fact that you're not being rude
about it. I was just a little confused though when you said engines
are more likely to ping at lower RPMs, then in the next paragraph, you
said that higher RPMs would be all the more reason an engine would
ping. Those statements contradict themselves (unless I am missing
something that I don't quite understand).
Any input regarding the 'rattlesnake noise'? It's just a soft
'purring' type noise. Not real loud at all, but does quit when I back
off the accelerator just a touch.
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:07:48 -0400, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
> >any driving condition.
>
> Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
> slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
> knowledge of this.
>
>
>
> >At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
> >power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
>
> All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
> torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
> pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
> these higher pressure need more octane
>
>
>
> >My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
> >they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
>
> I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
> is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
> power is. (you have very low standards)
>
>
>
> >I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
>
> Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
>
>
> >I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
> >have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
> >oranges to a 4.0's systems)
>
> How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
> humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
> oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
> and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
> What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
> all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
> since early 80's.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Mike
> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> >Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> >(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> >Tracie wrote:
> >> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> >>> Quick question...
>
> >>> 2006 TJ
> >>> 6 speed manual
> >>> 4.0 liter with I-6
> >>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>
> >>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
> >>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
> >>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
> >>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
> >>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
> >>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
> >>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
> >>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
> >>> insight?
>
> >> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>
> >> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
> >> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
> >> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
> >> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
> >> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
> >> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
> >> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
> >> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
> >> It's
> >> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
> >> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
> >> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
> >> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
> >> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
> >> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
> >> so
> >> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
> >> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
> >> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
> >> this
> >> be causing the problem too?
>
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for the quick responses.
SnoMan --
You're right, I really don't have much knowledge of what causes
pinging. I really do appreciate the fact that you're not being rude
about it. I was just a little confused though when you said engines
are more likely to ping at lower RPMs, then in the next paragraph, you
said that higher RPMs would be all the more reason an engine would
ping. Those statements contradict themselves (unless I am missing
something that I don't quite understand).
Any input regarding the 'rattlesnake noise'? It's just a soft
'purring' type noise. Not real loud at all, but does quit when I back
off the accelerator just a touch.
09-24-2007, 02:04 PM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TO PING OR NOT TO PING?
On Sep 24, 1:37 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:07:48 -0400, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
> >any driving condition.
>
> Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
> slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
> knowledge of this.
>
>
>
> >At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
> >power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
>
> All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
> torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
> pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
> these higher pressure need more octane
>
>
>
> >My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
> >they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
>
> I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
> is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
> power is. (you have very low standards)
>
>
>
> >I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
>
> Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
>
>
> >I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
> >have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
> >oranges to a 4.0's systems)
>
> How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
> humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
> oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
> and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
> What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
> all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
> since early 80's.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Mike
> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> >Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> >(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> >Tracie wrote:
> >> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> >>> Quick question...
>
> >>> 2006 TJ
> >>> 6 speed manual
> >>> 4.0 liter with I-6
> >>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>
> >>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
> >>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
> >>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
> >>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
> >>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
> >>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
> >>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
> >>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
> >>> insight?
>
> >> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>
> >> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
> >> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
> >> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
> >> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
> >> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
> >> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
> >> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
> >> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
> >> It's
> >> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
> >> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
> >> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
> >> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
> >> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
> >> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
> >> so
> >> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
> >> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
> >> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
> >> this
> >> be causing the problem too?
>
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for the quick responses.
SnoMan --
You're right, I really don't have much knowledge of what causes
pinging. I really do appreciate the fact that you're not being rude
about it. I was just a little confused though when you said engines
are more likely to ping at lower RPMs, then in the next paragraph, you
said that higher RPMs would be all the more reason an engine would
ping. Those statements contradict themselves (unless I am missing
something that I don't quite understand).
Any input regarding the 'rattlesnake noise'? It's just a soft
'purring' type noise. Not real loud at all, but does quit when I back
off the accelerator just a touch.
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:07:48 -0400, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
> >any driving condition.
>
> Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
> slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
> knowledge of this.
>
>
>
> >At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
> >power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
>
> All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
> torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
> pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
> these higher pressure need more octane
>
>
>
> >My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
> >they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
>
> I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
> is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
> power is. (you have very low standards)
>
>
>
> >I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
>
> Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
>
>
> >I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
> >have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
> >oranges to a 4.0's systems)
>
> How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
> humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
> oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
> and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
> What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
> all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
> since early 80's.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Mike
> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> >Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> >(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> >Tracie wrote:
> >> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> >>> Quick question...
>
> >>> 2006 TJ
> >>> 6 speed manual
> >>> 4.0 liter with I-6
> >>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>
> >>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
> >>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
> >>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
> >>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
> >>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
> >>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
> >>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
> >>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
> >>> insight?
>
> >> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>
> >> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
> >> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
> >> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
> >> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
> >> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
> >> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
> >> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
> >> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
> >> It's
> >> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
> >> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
> >> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
> >> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
> >> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
> >> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
> >> so
> >> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
> >> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
> >> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
> >> this
> >> be causing the problem too?
>
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for the quick responses.
SnoMan --
You're right, I really don't have much knowledge of what causes
pinging. I really do appreciate the fact that you're not being rude
about it. I was just a little confused though when you said engines
are more likely to ping at lower RPMs, then in the next paragraph, you
said that higher RPMs would be all the more reason an engine would
ping. Those statements contradict themselves (unless I am missing
something that I don't quite understand).
Any input regarding the 'rattlesnake noise'? It's just a soft
'purring' type noise. Not real loud at all, but does quit when I back
off the accelerator just a touch.
09-24-2007, 02:04 PM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TO PING OR NOT TO PING?
On Sep 24, 1:37 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:07:48 -0400, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
> >any driving condition.
>
> Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
> slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
> knowledge of this.
>
>
>
> >At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
> >power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
>
> All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
> torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
> pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
> these higher pressure need more octane
>
>
>
> >My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
> >they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
>
> I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
> is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
> power is. (you have very low standards)
>
>
>
> >I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
>
> Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
>
>
> >I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
> >have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
> >oranges to a 4.0's systems)
>
> How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
> humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
> oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
> and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
> What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
> all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
> since early 80's.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Mike
> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> >Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> >(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> >Tracie wrote:
> >> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> >>> Quick question...
>
> >>> 2006 TJ
> >>> 6 speed manual
> >>> 4.0 liter with I-6
> >>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>
> >>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
> >>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
> >>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
> >>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
> >>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
> >>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
> >>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
> >>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
> >>> insight?
>
> >> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>
> >> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
> >> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
> >> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
> >> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
> >> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
> >> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
> >> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
> >> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
> >> It's
> >> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
> >> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
> >> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
> >> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
> >> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
> >> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
> >> so
> >> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
> >> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
> >> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
> >> this
> >> be causing the problem too?
>
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for the quick responses.
SnoMan --
You're right, I really don't have much knowledge of what causes
pinging. I really do appreciate the fact that you're not being rude
about it. I was just a little confused though when you said engines
are more likely to ping at lower RPMs, then in the next paragraph, you
said that higher RPMs would be all the more reason an engine would
ping. Those statements contradict themselves (unless I am missing
something that I don't quite understand).
Any input regarding the 'rattlesnake noise'? It's just a soft
'purring' type noise. Not real loud at all, but does quit when I back
off the accelerator just a touch.
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:07:48 -0400, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
> >any driving condition.
>
> Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
> slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
> knowledge of this.
>
>
>
> >At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
> >power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
>
> All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
> torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
> pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
> these higher pressure need more octane
>
>
>
> >My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
> >they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
>
> I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
> is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
> power is. (you have very low standards)
>
>
>
> >I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
>
> Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
>
>
> >I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
> >have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
> >oranges to a 4.0's systems)
>
> How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
> humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
> oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
> and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
> What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
> all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
> since early 80's.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Mike
> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> >Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> >(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> >Tracie wrote:
> >> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> >>> Quick question...
>
> >>> 2006 TJ
> >>> 6 speed manual
> >>> 4.0 liter with I-6
> >>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>
> >>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
> >>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
> >>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
> >>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
> >>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
> >>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
> >>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
> >>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
> >>> insight?
>
> >> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>
> >> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
> >> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
> >> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
> >> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
> >> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
> >> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
> >> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
> >> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
> >> It's
> >> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
> >> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
> >> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
> >> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
> >> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
> >> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
> >> so
> >> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
> >> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
> >> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
> >> this
> >> be causing the problem too?
>
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for the quick responses.
SnoMan --
You're right, I really don't have much knowledge of what causes
pinging. I really do appreciate the fact that you're not being rude
about it. I was just a little confused though when you said engines
are more likely to ping at lower RPMs, then in the next paragraph, you
said that higher RPMs would be all the more reason an engine would
ping. Those statements contradict themselves (unless I am missing
something that I don't quite understand).
Any input regarding the 'rattlesnake noise'? It's just a soft
'purring' type noise. Not real loud at all, but does quit when I back
off the accelerator just a touch.
09-24-2007, 02:04 PM
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TO PING OR NOT TO PING?
On Sep 24, 1:37 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:07:48 -0400, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
> >any driving condition.
>
> Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
> slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
> knowledge of this.
>
>
>
> >At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
> >power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
>
> All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
> torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
> pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
> these higher pressure need more octane
>
>
>
> >My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
> >they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
>
> I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
> is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
> power is. (you have very low standards)
>
>
>
> >I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
>
> Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
>
>
> >I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
> >have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
> >oranges to a 4.0's systems)
>
> How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
> humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
> oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
> and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
> What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
> all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
> since early 80's.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Mike
> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> >Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> >(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> >Tracie wrote:
> >> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> >>> Quick question...
>
> >>> 2006 TJ
> >>> 6 speed manual
> >>> 4.0 liter with I-6
> >>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>
> >>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
> >>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
> >>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
> >>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
> >>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
> >>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
> >>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
> >>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
> >>> insight?
>
> >> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>
> >> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
> >> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
> >> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
> >> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
> >> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
> >> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
> >> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
> >> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
> >> It's
> >> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
> >> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
> >> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
> >> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
> >> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
> >> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
> >> so
> >> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
> >> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
> >> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
> >> this
> >> be causing the problem too?
>
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for the quick responses.
SnoMan --
You're right, I really don't have much knowledge of what causes
pinging. I really do appreciate the fact that you're not being rude
about it. I was just a little confused though when you said engines
are more likely to ping at lower RPMs, then in the next paragraph, you
said that higher RPMs would be all the more reason an engine would
ping. Those statements contradict themselves (unless I am missing
something that I don't quite understand).
Any input regarding the 'rattlesnake noise'? It's just a soft
'purring' type noise. Not real loud at all, but does quit when I back
off the accelerator just a touch.
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:07:48 -0400, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
> >any driving condition.
>
> Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
> slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
> knowledge of this.
>
>
>
> >At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
> >power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
>
> All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
> torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
> pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
> these higher pressure need more octane
>
>
>
> >My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
> >they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
>
> I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
> is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
> power is. (you have very low standards)
>
>
>
> >I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
>
> Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
>
>
> >I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
> >have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
> >oranges to a 4.0's systems)
>
> How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
> humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
> oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
> and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
> What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
> all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
> since early 80's.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Mike
> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> >Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> >(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> >Tracie wrote:
> >> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> >>> Quick question...
>
> >>> 2006 TJ
> >>> 6 speed manual
> >>> 4.0 liter with I-6
> >>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>
> >>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
> >>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
> >>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
> >>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
> >>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
> >>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
> >>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
> >>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
> >>> insight?
>
> >> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>
> >> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
> >> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
> >> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
> >> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
> >> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
> >> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
> >> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
> >> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
> >> It's
> >> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
> >> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
> >> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
> >> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
> >> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
> >> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
> >> so
> >> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
> >> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
> >> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
> >> this
> >> be causing the problem too?
>
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for the quick responses.
SnoMan --
You're right, I really don't have much knowledge of what causes
pinging. I really do appreciate the fact that you're not being rude
about it. I was just a little confused though when you said engines
are more likely to ping at lower RPMs, then in the next paragraph, you
said that higher RPMs would be all the more reason an engine would
ping. Those statements contradict themselves (unless I am missing
something that I don't quite understand).
Any input regarding the 'rattlesnake noise'? It's just a soft
'purring' type noise. Not real loud at all, but does quit when I back
off the accelerator just a touch.
09-24-2007, 02:12 PM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TO PING OR NOT TO PING?
On Sep 24, 2:04 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> On Sep 24, 1:37 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:07:48 -0400, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca>
> > wrote:
>
> > >I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
> > >any driving condition.
>
> > Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
> > slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
> > knowledge of this.
>
> > >At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
> > >power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
>
> > All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
> > torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
> > pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
> > these higher pressure need more octane
>
> > >My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
> > >they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
>
> > I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
> > is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
> > power is. (you have very low standards)
>
> > >I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
>
> > Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
> > >I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
> > >have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
> > >oranges to a 4.0's systems)
>
> > How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
> > humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
> > oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
> > and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
> > What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
> > all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
> > since early 80's.
>
> > >Mike
> > >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> > >Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > >Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> > >(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> > >Tracie wrote:
> > >> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> > >>> Quick question...
>
> > >>> 2006 TJ
> > >>> 6 speed manual
> > >>> 4.0 liter with I-6
> > >>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>
> > >>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
> > >>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
> > >>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
> > >>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
> > >>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
> > >>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
> > >>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
> > >>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
> > >>> insight?
>
> > >> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>
> > >> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
> > >> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
> > >> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
> > >> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
> > >> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
> > >> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
> > >> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
> > >> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
> > >> It's
> > >> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
> > >> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
> > >> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
> > >> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
> > >> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
> > >> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
> > >> so
> > >> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
> > >> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
> > >> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
> > >> this
> > >> be causing the problem too?
>
> > -----------------
> > TheSnoMan.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks for the quick responses.
>
> SnoMan --
> You're right, I really don't have much knowledge of what causes
> pinging. I really do appreciate the fact that you're not being rude
> about it. I was just a little confused though when you said engines
> are more likely to ping at lower RPMs, then in the next paragraph, you
> said that higher RPMs would be all the more reason an engine would
> ping. Those statements contradict themselves (unless I am missing
> something that I don't quite understand).
>
> Any input regarding the 'rattlesnake noise'? It's just a soft
> 'purring' type noise. Not real loud at all, but does quit when I back
> off the accelerator just a touch.
You said highway or lower speeds it happens
Tire noise?
Did you see if it happens when you in neutral?
> On Sep 24, 1:37 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:07:48 -0400, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca>
> > wrote:
>
> > >I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
> > >any driving condition.
>
> > Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
> > slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
> > knowledge of this.
>
> > >At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
> > >power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
>
> > All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
> > torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
> > pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
> > these higher pressure need more octane
>
> > >My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
> > >they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
>
> > I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
> > is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
> > power is. (you have very low standards)
>
> > >I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
>
> > Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
> > >I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
> > >have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
> > >oranges to a 4.0's systems)
>
> > How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
> > humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
> > oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
> > and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
> > What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
> > all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
> > since early 80's.
>
> > >Mike
> > >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> > >Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > >Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> > >(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> > >Tracie wrote:
> > >> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> > >>> Quick question...
>
> > >>> 2006 TJ
> > >>> 6 speed manual
> > >>> 4.0 liter with I-6
> > >>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>
> > >>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
> > >>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
> > >>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
> > >>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
> > >>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
> > >>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
> > >>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
> > >>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
> > >>> insight?
>
> > >> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>
> > >> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
> > >> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
> > >> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
> > >> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
> > >> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
> > >> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
> > >> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
> > >> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
> > >> It's
> > >> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
> > >> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
> > >> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
> > >> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
> > >> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
> > >> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
> > >> so
> > >> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
> > >> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
> > >> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
> > >> this
> > >> be causing the problem too?
>
> > -----------------
> > TheSnoMan.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks for the quick responses.
>
> SnoMan --
> You're right, I really don't have much knowledge of what causes
> pinging. I really do appreciate the fact that you're not being rude
> about it. I was just a little confused though when you said engines
> are more likely to ping at lower RPMs, then in the next paragraph, you
> said that higher RPMs would be all the more reason an engine would
> ping. Those statements contradict themselves (unless I am missing
> something that I don't quite understand).
>
> Any input regarding the 'rattlesnake noise'? It's just a soft
> 'purring' type noise. Not real loud at all, but does quit when I back
> off the accelerator just a touch.
You said highway or lower speeds it happens
Tire noise?
Did you see if it happens when you in neutral?
09-24-2007, 02:12 PM
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TO PING OR NOT TO PING?
On Sep 24, 2:04 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> On Sep 24, 1:37 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:07:48 -0400, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca>
> > wrote:
>
> > >I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
> > >any driving condition.
>
> > Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
> > slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
> > knowledge of this.
>
> > >At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
> > >power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
>
> > All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
> > torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
> > pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
> > these higher pressure need more octane
>
> > >My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
> > >they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
>
> > I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
> > is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
> > power is. (you have very low standards)
>
> > >I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
>
> > Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
> > >I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
> > >have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
> > >oranges to a 4.0's systems)
>
> > How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
> > humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
> > oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
> > and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
> > What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
> > all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
> > since early 80's.
>
> > >Mike
> > >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> > >Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > >Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> > >(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> > >Tracie wrote:
> > >> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> > >>> Quick question...
>
> > >>> 2006 TJ
> > >>> 6 speed manual
> > >>> 4.0 liter with I-6
> > >>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>
> > >>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
> > >>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
> > >>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
> > >>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
> > >>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
> > >>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
> > >>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
> > >>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
> > >>> insight?
>
> > >> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>
> > >> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
> > >> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
> > >> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
> > >> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
> > >> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
> > >> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
> > >> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
> > >> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
> > >> It's
> > >> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
> > >> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
> > >> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
> > >> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
> > >> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
> > >> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
> > >> so
> > >> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
> > >> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
> > >> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
> > >> this
> > >> be causing the problem too?
>
> > -----------------
> > TheSnoMan.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks for the quick responses.
>
> SnoMan --
> You're right, I really don't have much knowledge of what causes
> pinging. I really do appreciate the fact that you're not being rude
> about it. I was just a little confused though when you said engines
> are more likely to ping at lower RPMs, then in the next paragraph, you
> said that higher RPMs would be all the more reason an engine would
> ping. Those statements contradict themselves (unless I am missing
> something that I don't quite understand).
>
> Any input regarding the 'rattlesnake noise'? It's just a soft
> 'purring' type noise. Not real loud at all, but does quit when I back
> off the accelerator just a touch.
You said highway or lower speeds it happens
Tire noise?
Did you see if it happens when you in neutral?
> On Sep 24, 1:37 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:07:48 -0400, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca>
> > wrote:
>
> > >I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
> > >any driving condition.
>
> > Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
> > slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
> > knowledge of this.
>
> > >At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
> > >power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
>
> > All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
> > torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
> > pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
> > these higher pressure need more octane
>
> > >My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
> > >they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
>
> > I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
> > is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
> > power is. (you have very low standards)
>
> > >I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
>
> > Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
> > >I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
> > >have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
> > >oranges to a 4.0's systems)
>
> > How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
> > humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
> > oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
> > and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
> > What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
> > all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
> > since early 80's.
>
> > >Mike
> > >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> > >Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > >Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> > >(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> > >Tracie wrote:
> > >> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> > >>> Quick question...
>
> > >>> 2006 TJ
> > >>> 6 speed manual
> > >>> 4.0 liter with I-6
> > >>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>
> > >>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
> > >>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
> > >>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
> > >>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
> > >>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
> > >>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
> > >>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
> > >>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
> > >>> insight?
>
> > >> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>
> > >> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
> > >> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
> > >> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
> > >> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
> > >> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
> > >> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
> > >> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
> > >> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
> > >> It's
> > >> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
> > >> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
> > >> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
> > >> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
> > >> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
> > >> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
> > >> so
> > >> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
> > >> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
> > >> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
> > >> this
> > >> be causing the problem too?
>
> > -----------------
> > TheSnoMan.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks for the quick responses.
>
> SnoMan --
> You're right, I really don't have much knowledge of what causes
> pinging. I really do appreciate the fact that you're not being rude
> about it. I was just a little confused though when you said engines
> are more likely to ping at lower RPMs, then in the next paragraph, you
> said that higher RPMs would be all the more reason an engine would
> ping. Those statements contradict themselves (unless I am missing
> something that I don't quite understand).
>
> Any input regarding the 'rattlesnake noise'? It's just a soft
> 'purring' type noise. Not real loud at all, but does quit when I back
> off the accelerator just a touch.
You said highway or lower speeds it happens
Tire noise?
Did you see if it happens when you in neutral?
09-24-2007, 02:12 PM
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TO PING OR NOT TO PING?
On Sep 24, 2:04 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> On Sep 24, 1:37 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:07:48 -0400, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca>
> > wrote:
>
> > >I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
> > >any driving condition.
>
> > Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
> > slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
> > knowledge of this.
>
> > >At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
> > >power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
>
> > All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
> > torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
> > pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
> > these higher pressure need more octane
>
> > >My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
> > >they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
>
> > I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
> > is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
> > power is. (you have very low standards)
>
> > >I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
>
> > Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
> > >I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
> > >have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
> > >oranges to a 4.0's systems)
>
> > How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
> > humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
> > oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
> > and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
> > What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
> > all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
> > since early 80's.
>
> > >Mike
> > >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> > >Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > >Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> > >(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> > >Tracie wrote:
> > >> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> > >>> Quick question...
>
> > >>> 2006 TJ
> > >>> 6 speed manual
> > >>> 4.0 liter with I-6
> > >>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>
> > >>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
> > >>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
> > >>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
> > >>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
> > >>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
> > >>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
> > >>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
> > >>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
> > >>> insight?
>
> > >> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>
> > >> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
> > >> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
> > >> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
> > >> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
> > >> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
> > >> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
> > >> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
> > >> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
> > >> It's
> > >> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
> > >> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
> > >> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
> > >> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
> > >> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
> > >> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
> > >> so
> > >> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
> > >> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
> > >> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
> > >> this
> > >> be causing the problem too?
>
> > -----------------
> > TheSnoMan.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks for the quick responses.
>
> SnoMan --
> You're right, I really don't have much knowledge of what causes
> pinging. I really do appreciate the fact that you're not being rude
> about it. I was just a little confused though when you said engines
> are more likely to ping at lower RPMs, then in the next paragraph, you
> said that higher RPMs would be all the more reason an engine would
> ping. Those statements contradict themselves (unless I am missing
> something that I don't quite understand).
>
> Any input regarding the 'rattlesnake noise'? It's just a soft
> 'purring' type noise. Not real loud at all, but does quit when I back
> off the accelerator just a touch.
You said highway or lower speeds it happens
Tire noise?
Did you see if it happens when you in neutral?
> On Sep 24, 1:37 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:07:48 -0400, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca>
> > wrote:
>
> > >I highly doubt you can make a 4.0 engine ping at 2500 rpm under almost
> > >any driving condition.
>
> > Engine are more prone to ping at lower RPMs when rate of expansion is
> > slower and load is high. You would know this if you had any realy
> > knowledge of this.
>
> > >At that rpm, you are way up in the torque curve and should have tons of
> > >power to accelerate uphill fast even using regular gas.
>
> > All the more reason it can ping because when engine is making good
> > torque it is near its VE peak (Volumetric Efficency) where effective
> > pumping pressure are the highest for its mixtures being burned and
> > these higher pressure need more octane
>
> > >My Jeeps have tons of power when fully loaded for camping at that rpm,
> > >they will 'hold' 2300 rpm at least on anything.
>
> > I take this with a grain of salt since you think 3.31 gears with 33's
> > is a great combo, you really do not have a clue what good pulling
> > power is. (you have very low standards)
>
> > >I would be suspecting something else is making the noise.
>
> > Of course you would because you are clueless here
>
> > >I can only start a ping if I am way down into the mid teens for rpm or
> > >have gas my CJ7's 258 doesn't like in it. (old carb engine, apples and
> > >oranges to a 4.0's systems)
>
> > How much octane you need depends on engine temp, air temp, load,
> > humidity, altitude and well as deposits in engine from age and minute
> > oil usage too which lowers octane needs. Octane needs are not constant
> > and the trick is to use a high enough octane to meet maximum needs.
> > What people need themselves can vary and is not universal 87 does it
> > all as clueless here suggests. BTW, I do not use 87 in anything made
> > since early 80's.
>
> > >Mike
> > >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> > >Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > >Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> > >(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> > >Tracie wrote:
> > >> On Sep 24, 12:25 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> > >>> Quick question...
>
> > >>> 2006 TJ
> > >>> 6 speed manual
> > >>> 4.0 liter with I-6
> > >>> 31/10.50/15 BFGs
>
> > >>> When moving along at highway speeds or at lower speeds, does anyone
> > >>> else's Wrangler engine sound like a 'rattlesnake' is in there? I am
> > >>> not sure if this is pinging or simply just the normal sound of the
> > >>> motor. Keep in mind that I do not use my 6th gear on the highway due
> > >>> to the 31s. I am travelling along at approximately 65 mph and running
> > >>> about 2400-2500 rpms when this sound occurs. If I back off the
> > >>> accelerator and get to about 62-63 mph, the sound stops. It's not a
> > >>> metallic type sound. Just a 'rattling' or 'purring' type sound. Any
> > >>> insight?
>
> > >> Sorry but I forgot to add the following....
>
> > >> Since I have upgraded from 28s to 31s, can that cause the engine to
> > >> lug or ping? I generally keep the RPM's around 2200-2400 in 5th gear
> > >> (I have a 6 speed). In the higher gears after the engine is warm and
> > >> mainly while going uphill (little or big), I get this noise on the
> > >> passenger side that sounds VERY similar to the soft top side window
> > >> 'pinging' against the metal support bow when the wind blows. I can't
> > >> quite distinguish if that's it, or if the engine is pinging because I
> > >> am not 100% sure whether it's coming from the front or the back.
> > >> It's
> > >> a high-pitched noise. It is NOT rhythmic or steady, but rather comes
> > >> and goes intermittently. This noise does NOT happen at city/town
> > >> speeds of 50 mph or lower. I ran a tank of 89 through her, and it
> > >> seemed to be drastically reduced after 1/4 of the tank was used and
> > >> for the rest of the 3/4 of the tank. I have now refilled again with
> > >> the 89 and the noise is back. I have not used 1/4 of the tank yet,
> > >> so
> > >> I don't know if it will be reduced again once I get to that point. I
> > >> do have a tendecy to 'stuff' as much gas in the tank as I can get
> > >> (even after the automatic shuf-off on the spout kicks on). Would
> > >> this
> > >> be causing the problem too?
>
> > -----------------
> > TheSnoMan.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks for the quick responses.
>
> SnoMan --
> You're right, I really don't have much knowledge of what causes
> pinging. I really do appreciate the fact that you're not being rude
> about it. I was just a little confused though when you said engines
> are more likely to ping at lower RPMs, then in the next paragraph, you
> said that higher RPMs would be all the more reason an engine would
> ping. Those statements contradict themselves (unless I am missing
> something that I don't quite understand).
>
> Any input regarding the 'rattlesnake noise'? It's just a soft
> 'purring' type noise. Not real loud at all, but does quit when I back
> off the accelerator just a touch.
You said highway or lower speeds it happens
Tire noise?
Did you see if it happens when you in neutral?