OT New Orleans
09-11-2005, 01:42 PM
#181
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please re-read
> my post.
i re-read your post and this is certainly the implication that i
interpreted. you went from talking about the current administration to
talking about building the levee. since you say thats not what you
meant i accept that, and im just pointing out why your message was
interpreted that way.
> Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please re-read
> my post.
i re-read your post and this is certainly the implication that i
interpreted. you went from talking about the current administration to
talking about building the levee. since you say thats not what you
meant i accept that, and im just pointing out why your message was
interpreted that way.
09-11-2005, 02:46 PM
#186
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:55:35 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>Saw that, are there any other sources?
>
>>
>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/politics/08chertoff.html?ei=5090&en=373053edcb4fff05&ex=128 3832000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnn lx=1126182417-fXi4vRtafGCy/xuouKwtfw>
>>
>
I can assure you, Matt, that if these comments were not true, the MSM
would be blaring "BUSH LIES AS NEW ORLEANS DIES" on every newspaper
and television news report from here to eternity.
Nevertheless, the media has reported the existence of MREs without
mentioning the source (one source even refused to mention that they
were MREs).
Had the press any inclination that this food and water had been
provided by the local authorities, they most certainly would have said
so.
"When they got hungry, there was not the beer-and-hot dog fare served
up at Saints football games. More than 10,000 refugees from Katrina
dined on the same instant meals as U.S. soldiers in Iraq, fitting
because it was soldiers who were watching over them now."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1479803/posts
"Most refugees are given two 9-ounce bottles of water a day and two
boxed meals: spaghetti, Thai chicken or jambalaya."
http://www.dailypress.com/la-na-supe...ostemailedlink
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>Saw that, are there any other sources?
>
>>
>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/politics/08chertoff.html?ei=5090&en=373053edcb4fff05&ex=128 3832000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnn lx=1126182417-fXi4vRtafGCy/xuouKwtfw>
>>
>
I can assure you, Matt, that if these comments were not true, the MSM
would be blaring "BUSH LIES AS NEW ORLEANS DIES" on every newspaper
and television news report from here to eternity.
Nevertheless, the media has reported the existence of MREs without
mentioning the source (one source even refused to mention that they
were MREs).
Had the press any inclination that this food and water had been
provided by the local authorities, they most certainly would have said
so.
"When they got hungry, there was not the beer-and-hot dog fare served
up at Saints football games. More than 10,000 refugees from Katrina
dined on the same instant meals as U.S. soldiers in Iraq, fitting
because it was soldiers who were watching over them now."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1479803/posts
"Most refugees are given two 9-ounce bottles of water a day and two
boxed meals: spaghetti, Thai chicken or jambalaya."
http://www.dailypress.com/la-na-supe...ostemailedlink
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
09-11-2005, 02:46 PM
#187
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:55:35 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>Saw that, are there any other sources?
>
>>
>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/politics/08chertoff.html?ei=5090&en=373053edcb4fff05&ex=128 3832000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnn lx=1126182417-fXi4vRtafGCy/xuouKwtfw>
>>
>
I can assure you, Matt, that if these comments were not true, the MSM
would be blaring "BUSH LIES AS NEW ORLEANS DIES" on every newspaper
and television news report from here to eternity.
Nevertheless, the media has reported the existence of MREs without
mentioning the source (one source even refused to mention that they
were MREs).
Had the press any inclination that this food and water had been
provided by the local authorities, they most certainly would have said
so.
"When they got hungry, there was not the beer-and-hot dog fare served
up at Saints football games. More than 10,000 refugees from Katrina
dined on the same instant meals as U.S. soldiers in Iraq, fitting
because it was soldiers who were watching over them now."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1479803/posts
"Most refugees are given two 9-ounce bottles of water a day and two
boxed meals: spaghetti, Thai chicken or jambalaya."
http://www.dailypress.com/la-na-supe...ostemailedlink
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>Saw that, are there any other sources?
>
>>
>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/politics/08chertoff.html?ei=5090&en=373053edcb4fff05&ex=128 3832000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnn lx=1126182417-fXi4vRtafGCy/xuouKwtfw>
>>
>
I can assure you, Matt, that if these comments were not true, the MSM
would be blaring "BUSH LIES AS NEW ORLEANS DIES" on every newspaper
and television news report from here to eternity.
Nevertheless, the media has reported the existence of MREs without
mentioning the source (one source even refused to mention that they
were MREs).
Had the press any inclination that this food and water had been
provided by the local authorities, they most certainly would have said
so.
"When they got hungry, there was not the beer-and-hot dog fare served
up at Saints football games. More than 10,000 refugees from Katrina
dined on the same instant meals as U.S. soldiers in Iraq, fitting
because it was soldiers who were watching over them now."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1479803/posts
"Most refugees are given two 9-ounce bottles of water a day and two
boxed meals: spaghetti, Thai chicken or jambalaya."
http://www.dailypress.com/la-na-supe...ostemailedlink
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
09-11-2005, 02:46 PM
#188
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:55:35 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>Saw that, are there any other sources?
>
>>
>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/politics/08chertoff.html?ei=5090&en=373053edcb4fff05&ex=128 3832000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnn lx=1126182417-fXi4vRtafGCy/xuouKwtfw>
>>
>
I can assure you, Matt, that if these comments were not true, the MSM
would be blaring "BUSH LIES AS NEW ORLEANS DIES" on every newspaper
and television news report from here to eternity.
Nevertheless, the media has reported the existence of MREs without
mentioning the source (one source even refused to mention that they
were MREs).
Had the press any inclination that this food and water had been
provided by the local authorities, they most certainly would have said
so.
"When they got hungry, there was not the beer-and-hot dog fare served
up at Saints football games. More than 10,000 refugees from Katrina
dined on the same instant meals as U.S. soldiers in Iraq, fitting
because it was soldiers who were watching over them now."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1479803/posts
"Most refugees are given two 9-ounce bottles of water a day and two
boxed meals: spaghetti, Thai chicken or jambalaya."
http://www.dailypress.com/la-na-supe...ostemailedlink
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>Saw that, are there any other sources?
>
>>
>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/politics/08chertoff.html?ei=5090&en=373053edcb4fff05&ex=128 3832000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnn lx=1126182417-fXi4vRtafGCy/xuouKwtfw>
>>
>
I can assure you, Matt, that if these comments were not true, the MSM
would be blaring "BUSH LIES AS NEW ORLEANS DIES" on every newspaper
and television news report from here to eternity.
Nevertheless, the media has reported the existence of MREs without
mentioning the source (one source even refused to mention that they
were MREs).
Had the press any inclination that this food and water had been
provided by the local authorities, they most certainly would have said
so.
"When they got hungry, there was not the beer-and-hot dog fare served
up at Saints football games. More than 10,000 refugees from Katrina
dined on the same instant meals as U.S. soldiers in Iraq, fitting
because it was soldiers who were watching over them now."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1479803/posts
"Most refugees are given two 9-ounce bottles of water a day and two
boxed meals: spaghetti, Thai chicken or jambalaya."
http://www.dailypress.com/la-na-supe...ostemailedlink
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
09-11-2005, 02:46 PM
#189
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:55:35 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>Saw that, are there any other sources?
>
>>
>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/politics/08chertoff.html?ei=5090&en=373053edcb4fff05&ex=128 3832000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnn lx=1126182417-fXi4vRtafGCy/xuouKwtfw>
>>
>
I can assure you, Matt, that if these comments were not true, the MSM
would be blaring "BUSH LIES AS NEW ORLEANS DIES" on every newspaper
and television news report from here to eternity.
Nevertheless, the media has reported the existence of MREs without
mentioning the source (one source even refused to mention that they
were MREs).
Had the press any inclination that this food and water had been
provided by the local authorities, they most certainly would have said
so.
"When they got hungry, there was not the beer-and-hot dog fare served
up at Saints football games. More than 10,000 refugees from Katrina
dined on the same instant meals as U.S. soldiers in Iraq, fitting
because it was soldiers who were watching over them now."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1479803/posts
"Most refugees are given two 9-ounce bottles of water a day and two
boxed meals: spaghetti, Thai chicken or jambalaya."
http://www.dailypress.com/la-na-supe...ostemailedlink
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>Saw that, are there any other sources?
>
>>
>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/politics/08chertoff.html?ei=5090&en=373053edcb4fff05&ex=128 3832000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnn lx=1126182417-fXi4vRtafGCy/xuouKwtfw>
>>
>
I can assure you, Matt, that if these comments were not true, the MSM
would be blaring "BUSH LIES AS NEW ORLEANS DIES" on every newspaper
and television news report from here to eternity.
Nevertheless, the media has reported the existence of MREs without
mentioning the source (one source even refused to mention that they
were MREs).
Had the press any inclination that this food and water had been
provided by the local authorities, they most certainly would have said
so.
"When they got hungry, there was not the beer-and-hot dog fare served
up at Saints football games. More than 10,000 refugees from Katrina
dined on the same instant meals as U.S. soldiers in Iraq, fitting
because it was soldiers who were watching over them now."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1479803/posts
"Most refugees are given two 9-ounce bottles of water a day and two
boxed meals: spaghetti, Thai chicken or jambalaya."
http://www.dailypress.com/la-na-supe...ostemailedlink
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
09-11-2005, 03:29 PM
#190
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
I give Nagin credit for saving a lot of lives with his no-nonsense
run-up evacuation. He deserves kudos for that part, but he either
needed help from a prepared and empowered staff or he needed to spend
less time time with a camera in his face while he took care of the
underlying details. If an analytical critique of this whole goat rope
is ever published, I think that the problem was started by local
failure to intigate actions other than evacuation and compounded at
every level above that.
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 03:24:49 UTC "SoK66" <Nospam@SoK.net> wrote:
> I t seems fairly obvious now that between Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco,
> local leadership completely dropped the ball.
>
> Their efforts to evacuate last year before Ivan hit the Gulf Coast were
> roundly criticised for the exact same reasons as what just happened. They
> had no plan to evacuate the immobile folks that ended up trapped in the
> Dome, etc. Last year they just got lucky, and looks like they didn't do
> anything at all in the interveneing time period. While they have a well
> documented evacuation plan for New Orleans, they never actually deployed it.
> Thats why the busses were flooded in a lot right next to the Dome, etc.
> Worse, the NO cops bailed, the NO Fire Dept evacuated THEMSELVES, rather
> than staying to help, etc. That the Feds were slow to respond I think
> there's no question, but the locals trully screwed the dog.
>
> Local efforst are expected to carry the first few days of natural disaters
> like this, while Federal assets are organized & deployed. That's what
> happened last year when 4 hurricanes in succession hit Florida. That State
> has a much better plan than Louisiana, and it showed. Funny that the same
> Michael Brown who just got made the scape-goat of Katrinma was hailed for
> his efforts last year in Florida.
>
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:dYednRiOQt0UFb7eRVn-jw@comcast.com...
> >
> > <Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> > news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> >>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
> >>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> >>>>>need
> >>>>>for
> >>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
> >>>>>planning,
> >>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
> >>>>
> >>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
> >>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
> >>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
> >>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
> >>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
> >>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
> >>>
> >>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
> >>>re-read
> >>>my post.
> >>
> >> You wrote:
> >>
> >> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> >> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
> >> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
> >>
> >> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
> >> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
> >> that the only named government was the federal government.
> >>
> >
> > Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
> > the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
> > state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for
> > federal response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed
> > but not delivered.
> >
> >>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
> >>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
> >>>
> >>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
> >>>dying of thirst were lying?
> >>
> >> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
> >> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
> >> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
> >>
> >> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
> >> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
> >> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
> >> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
> >> hell of head start.
> >>
> >> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
> >> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
> >> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
> >> accomplish.
> >
> > You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for
> > the Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation
> > of the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem
> > to run out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
> >
>
>
--
Will Honea
run-up evacuation. He deserves kudos for that part, but he either
needed help from a prepared and empowered staff or he needed to spend
less time time with a camera in his face while he took care of the
underlying details. If an analytical critique of this whole goat rope
is ever published, I think that the problem was started by local
failure to intigate actions other than evacuation and compounded at
every level above that.
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 03:24:49 UTC "SoK66" <Nospam@SoK.net> wrote:
> I t seems fairly obvious now that between Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco,
> local leadership completely dropped the ball.
>
> Their efforts to evacuate last year before Ivan hit the Gulf Coast were
> roundly criticised for the exact same reasons as what just happened. They
> had no plan to evacuate the immobile folks that ended up trapped in the
> Dome, etc. Last year they just got lucky, and looks like they didn't do
> anything at all in the interveneing time period. While they have a well
> documented evacuation plan for New Orleans, they never actually deployed it.
> Thats why the busses were flooded in a lot right next to the Dome, etc.
> Worse, the NO cops bailed, the NO Fire Dept evacuated THEMSELVES, rather
> than staying to help, etc. That the Feds were slow to respond I think
> there's no question, but the locals trully screwed the dog.
>
> Local efforst are expected to carry the first few days of natural disaters
> like this, while Federal assets are organized & deployed. That's what
> happened last year when 4 hurricanes in succession hit Florida. That State
> has a much better plan than Louisiana, and it showed. Funny that the same
> Michael Brown who just got made the scape-goat of Katrinma was hailed for
> his efforts last year in Florida.
>
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:dYednRiOQt0UFb7eRVn-jw@comcast.com...
> >
> > <Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> > news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> >>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
> >>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> >>>>>need
> >>>>>for
> >>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
> >>>>>planning,
> >>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
> >>>>
> >>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
> >>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
> >>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
> >>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
> >>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
> >>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
> >>>
> >>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
> >>>re-read
> >>>my post.
> >>
> >> You wrote:
> >>
> >> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> >> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
> >> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
> >>
> >> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
> >> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
> >> that the only named government was the federal government.
> >>
> >
> > Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
> > the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
> > state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for
> > federal response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed
> > but not delivered.
> >
> >>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
> >>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
> >>>
> >>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
> >>>dying of thirst were lying?
> >>
> >> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
> >> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
> >> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
> >>
> >> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
> >> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
> >> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
> >> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
> >> hell of head start.
> >>
> >> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
> >> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
> >> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
> >> accomplish.
> >
> > You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for
> > the Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation
> > of the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem
> > to run out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
> >
>
>
--
Will Honea