Mike Romain

mack wrote:
> After all this back-and-forth about the problem, all I can add is that Jeff
> ought to not throw good money after bad, or incur further risk to himself by
> calling in a really good electrician (not the guy who can replace a wall
> switch) and leave it to him. We all think we know a little about
> electricity, and it's just enough to get a surprise in the form of a lethal
> or nearly lethal shock.
> I'd just as soon not read the news and find that Jeff Strickland was found
> face down with two wires in his hands. ....."let's see now, was that 250
> Amps or 250 Watts???"
> Stick to plumbing repairs. Lots of professional electricians have
> succumbed to electrical shock, but I've yet to hear of a plumber drowning.
>
>

Well as a plumber that works under pools, I have gotten pretty wet....

Then there are the houses that use the cold water pipe as the main
ground for the electrical panel for the house.

Man oh man the blue fire that happens if you happen to cut that SOB with
a 240V dryer or stove or even just the 120V stuff turned on anywhere in
the house is Wicked! Just turns the pipe cutter into instant slag.

I make 'real' sure where the electrical panel is when I cut a cold line
and half the time put a set of booster cables across where I want to cut
if in any doubt.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Jeff Strickland

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:465dea98$0$12792$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com...
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:465d8145$0$6582$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>>> I thought I knew this stuff, but there is a nuance that I'm not
>>>> getting.
>>>>
>>>> I have a fiber optic lighting system in my swimming pool. It takes a
>>>> 24v/250A light bulb. The bubl does not light, but the filiment is okay.
>>>> The power supply (transformer) does not put out any voltage, so I
>>>> bought a new one.
>>>>
>>>> The new transformer is stated to provide 40VA, but the light does not
>>>> come on. My guess is that a VA and a "regular" A are different. What's
>>>> the difference?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Just another thought for you.
>>>
>>> I decided to fix the pool lights at my brother in laws cottage 'way' up
>>> north and talked to a pool tech before going.
>>>
>>> He stated the power transformers were the weak point.
>>>
>>> This fiber unit used a 12 V 75W 'pot light' and a colored spinning wheel
>>> but supposedly could take a 100W.
>>>
>>> Sure enough, I didn't even need to meter the power supply once I saw the
>>> melted solder on the output transistors. A new unit was pricey and I
>>> 'really' don't like replacing 'weak points' with 'new' weak points.
>>>
>>> So I went into the local town to the hardware store, picked up a 120V
>>> 50W bulb (the biggest they had, no 75's), went across the street to a
>>> Radio Shack and found a couple pigtails that fit the bulb's base because
>>> no one had the proper pigtail in town and converted the sucker to a
>>> 'line voltage' box.
>>>
>>> Basically I tossed out the 12 volt crap and just went 120V. It works
>>> great and some day when I go back up if I get ambitious I will up the
>>> bulb to a 75W or even the 100W the 'fixture' says it can handle. There
>>> is a colored wheel to avoid melting.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I did the same thing, I bought a pack of 120v/50w bulbs and did a test
>> run with them. they are not bright enough.
>>
>
> Is that as big as they make for that size I wonder?
>
> I really like the brighter lights because they do a wicked show in a
> snowstorm when sitting in the hot tub.
>
> I think if I could get one without the diffuser lens on it all the light
> would be in a spot on the fiber end. In my case I am only talking a
> 25-50W difference, not a couple hundred like yours...
>
> I was almost thinking on cutting the diffuser off one just to see.
>
> I also have worked on pools in various sizes since the 70's and have a
> good working knowledge of the power setups so swapping over to a line
> voltage light was easy.
>



Swapping this light is easy too. Seriously.

Where I got sideways is that the filiment LOOKS okay, so I checked it with
my meter and it checked good too. As I explained in another post, I either
operated my meter wrong, or it's broken. (I'm inclined to go with "wrong"
for now. Don't ask ... )

Jeff Strickland

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:465dea98$0$12792$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com...
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:465d8145$0$6582$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>>> I thought I knew this stuff, but there is a nuance that I'm not
>>>> getting.
>>>>
>>>> I have a fiber optic lighting system in my swimming pool. It takes a
>>>> 24v/250A light bulb. The bubl does not light, but the filiment is okay.
>>>> The power supply (transformer) does not put out any voltage, so I
>>>> bought a new one.
>>>>
>>>> The new transformer is stated to provide 40VA, but the light does not
>>>> come on. My guess is that a VA and a "regular" A are different. What's
>>>> the difference?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Just another thought for you.
>>>
>>> I decided to fix the pool lights at my brother in laws cottage 'way' up
>>> north and talked to a pool tech before going.
>>>
>>> He stated the power transformers were the weak point.
>>>
>>> This fiber unit used a 12 V 75W 'pot light' and a colored spinning wheel
>>> but supposedly could take a 100W.
>>>
>>> Sure enough, I didn't even need to meter the power supply once I saw the
>>> melted solder on the output transistors. A new unit was pricey and I
>>> 'really' don't like replacing 'weak points' with 'new' weak points.
>>>
>>> So I went into the local town to the hardware store, picked up a 120V
>>> 50W bulb (the biggest they had, no 75's), went across the street to a
>>> Radio Shack and found a couple pigtails that fit the bulb's base because
>>> no one had the proper pigtail in town and converted the sucker to a
>>> 'line voltage' box.
>>>
>>> Basically I tossed out the 12 volt crap and just went 120V. It works
>>> great and some day when I go back up if I get ambitious I will up the
>>> bulb to a 75W or even the 100W the 'fixture' says it can handle. There
>>> is a colored wheel to avoid melting.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I did the same thing, I bought a pack of 120v/50w bulbs and did a test
>> run with them. they are not bright enough.
>>
>
> Is that as big as they make for that size I wonder?
>
> I really like the brighter lights because they do a wicked show in a
> snowstorm when sitting in the hot tub.
>
> I think if I could get one without the diffuser lens on it all the light
> would be in a spot on the fiber end. In my case I am only talking a
> 25-50W difference, not a couple hundred like yours...
>
> I was almost thinking on cutting the diffuser off one just to see.
>
> I also have worked on pools in various sizes since the 70's and have a
> good working knowledge of the power setups so swapping over to a line
> voltage light was easy.
>



Swapping this light is easy too. Seriously.

Where I got sideways is that the filiment LOOKS okay, so I checked it with
my meter and it checked good too. As I explained in another post, I either
operated my meter wrong, or it's broken. (I'm inclined to go with "wrong"
for now. Don't ask ... )

Jeff Strickland

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:465dea98$0$12792$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com...
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:465d8145$0$6582$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>>> I thought I knew this stuff, but there is a nuance that I'm not
>>>> getting.
>>>>
>>>> I have a fiber optic lighting system in my swimming pool. It takes a
>>>> 24v/250A light bulb. The bubl does not light, but the filiment is okay.
>>>> The power supply (transformer) does not put out any voltage, so I
>>>> bought a new one.
>>>>
>>>> The new transformer is stated to provide 40VA, but the light does not
>>>> come on. My guess is that a VA and a "regular" A are different. What's
>>>> the difference?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Just another thought for you.
>>>
>>> I decided to fix the pool lights at my brother in laws cottage 'way' up
>>> north and talked to a pool tech before going.
>>>
>>> He stated the power transformers were the weak point.
>>>
>>> This fiber unit used a 12 V 75W 'pot light' and a colored spinning wheel
>>> but supposedly could take a 100W.
>>>
>>> Sure enough, I didn't even need to meter the power supply once I saw the
>>> melted solder on the output transistors. A new unit was pricey and I
>>> 'really' don't like replacing 'weak points' with 'new' weak points.
>>>
>>> So I went into the local town to the hardware store, picked up a 120V
>>> 50W bulb (the biggest they had, no 75's), went across the street to a
>>> Radio Shack and found a couple pigtails that fit the bulb's base because
>>> no one had the proper pigtail in town and converted the sucker to a
>>> 'line voltage' box.
>>>
>>> Basically I tossed out the 12 volt crap and just went 120V. It works
>>> great and some day when I go back up if I get ambitious I will up the
>>> bulb to a 75W or even the 100W the 'fixture' says it can handle. There
>>> is a colored wheel to avoid melting.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I did the same thing, I bought a pack of 120v/50w bulbs and did a test
>> run with them. they are not bright enough.
>>
>
> Is that as big as they make for that size I wonder?
>
> I really like the brighter lights because they do a wicked show in a
> snowstorm when sitting in the hot tub.
>
> I think if I could get one without the diffuser lens on it all the light
> would be in a spot on the fiber end. In my case I am only talking a
> 25-50W difference, not a couple hundred like yours...
>
> I was almost thinking on cutting the diffuser off one just to see.
>
> I also have worked on pools in various sizes since the 70's and have a
> good working knowledge of the power setups so swapping over to a line
> voltage light was easy.
>



Swapping this light is easy too. Seriously.

Where I got sideways is that the filiment LOOKS okay, so I checked it with
my meter and it checked good too. As I explained in another post, I either
operated my meter wrong, or it's broken. (I'm inclined to go with "wrong"
for now. Don't ask ... )

Jeff Strickland

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:465dea98$0$12792$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com...
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:465d8145$0$6582$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>>> I thought I knew this stuff, but there is a nuance that I'm not
>>>> getting.
>>>>
>>>> I have a fiber optic lighting system in my swimming pool. It takes a
>>>> 24v/250A light bulb. The bubl does not light, but the filiment is okay.
>>>> The power supply (transformer) does not put out any voltage, so I
>>>> bought a new one.
>>>>
>>>> The new transformer is stated to provide 40VA, but the light does not
>>>> come on. My guess is that a VA and a "regular" A are different. What's
>>>> the difference?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Just another thought for you.
>>>
>>> I decided to fix the pool lights at my brother in laws cottage 'way' up
>>> north and talked to a pool tech before going.
>>>
>>> He stated the power transformers were the weak point.
>>>
>>> This fiber unit used a 12 V 75W 'pot light' and a colored spinning wheel
>>> but supposedly could take a 100W.
>>>
>>> Sure enough, I didn't even need to meter the power supply once I saw the
>>> melted solder on the output transistors. A new unit was pricey and I
>>> 'really' don't like replacing 'weak points' with 'new' weak points.
>>>
>>> So I went into the local town to the hardware store, picked up a 120V
>>> 50W bulb (the biggest they had, no 75's), went across the street to a
>>> Radio Shack and found a couple pigtails that fit the bulb's base because
>>> no one had the proper pigtail in town and converted the sucker to a
>>> 'line voltage' box.
>>>
>>> Basically I tossed out the 12 volt crap and just went 120V. It works
>>> great and some day when I go back up if I get ambitious I will up the
>>> bulb to a 75W or even the 100W the 'fixture' says it can handle. There
>>> is a colored wheel to avoid melting.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I did the same thing, I bought a pack of 120v/50w bulbs and did a test
>> run with them. they are not bright enough.
>>
>
> Is that as big as they make for that size I wonder?
>
> I really like the brighter lights because they do a wicked show in a
> snowstorm when sitting in the hot tub.
>
> I think if I could get one without the diffuser lens on it all the light
> would be in a spot on the fiber end. In my case I am only talking a
> 25-50W difference, not a couple hundred like yours...
>
> I was almost thinking on cutting the diffuser off one just to see.
>
> I also have worked on pools in various sizes since the 70's and have a
> good working knowledge of the power setups so swapping over to a line
> voltage light was easy.
>



Swapping this light is easy too. Seriously.

Where I got sideways is that the filiment LOOKS okay, so I checked it with
my meter and it checked good too. As I explained in another post, I either
operated my meter wrong, or it's broken. (I'm inclined to go with "wrong"
for now. Don't ask ... )

SnoMan

On Wed, 30 May 2007 17:23:29 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
<crwlr@verizon.net> wrote:

>Adding insult to stupidity, my meter told me that the lamp was very nearly a
>dead short -- as you said it should be -- and that the transformer I had
>wasn't putting out anything. Now that I bought a new transformer, I find
>that the lamp is toast and the old transformer is actually still good. I
>haven't figured out if the meter lied, or I asked the wrong questions -- it
>is loaded up with a ---- load of buttons and input taps, and it seems now
>that I may not have pressed the right buttons and filled the right taps.


Listen, first of all, you are not stupid just because you do not know
something, that is why you ask questions. Stupid is not even asking
the question. Some multimeters can be a bit confusing but generallt
you use one set of lead connections for volt and ohms and another for
AMP if your meter supports that (those terminals have a shunt accross
them internally for current measurements) You always what to use 1K
range on ohm meter when checking light bulbs. Also transformers
generally rarely fail and when they do there is usually little doubt
because they will appear or smell burnt. Only a few things can kill a
transformer. The first is overloading it and it overheats and
insulation in winding break down and it shorts out internally. The
second is that a winding open up internall which is really rare in a
power transformer and the third it insulation break down from time and
heat which cause it to short internally. Properly sized for load a
power transfomer can live many many years.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

SnoMan

On Wed, 30 May 2007 17:23:29 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
<crwlr@verizon.net> wrote:

>Adding insult to stupidity, my meter told me that the lamp was very nearly a
>dead short -- as you said it should be -- and that the transformer I had
>wasn't putting out anything. Now that I bought a new transformer, I find
>that the lamp is toast and the old transformer is actually still good. I
>haven't figured out if the meter lied, or I asked the wrong questions -- it
>is loaded up with a ---- load of buttons and input taps, and it seems now
>that I may not have pressed the right buttons and filled the right taps.


Listen, first of all, you are not stupid just because you do not know
something, that is why you ask questions. Stupid is not even asking
the question. Some multimeters can be a bit confusing but generallt
you use one set of lead connections for volt and ohms and another for
AMP if your meter supports that (those terminals have a shunt accross
them internally for current measurements) You always what to use 1K
range on ohm meter when checking light bulbs. Also transformers
generally rarely fail and when they do there is usually little doubt
because they will appear or smell burnt. Only a few things can kill a
transformer. The first is overloading it and it overheats and
insulation in winding break down and it shorts out internally. The
second is that a winding open up internall which is really rare in a
power transformer and the third it insulation break down from time and
heat which cause it to short internally. Properly sized for load a
power transfomer can live many many years.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

SnoMan

On Wed, 30 May 2007 17:23:29 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
<crwlr@verizon.net> wrote:

>Adding insult to stupidity, my meter told me that the lamp was very nearly a
>dead short -- as you said it should be -- and that the transformer I had
>wasn't putting out anything. Now that I bought a new transformer, I find
>that the lamp is toast and the old transformer is actually still good. I
>haven't figured out if the meter lied, or I asked the wrong questions -- it
>is loaded up with a ---- load of buttons and input taps, and it seems now
>that I may not have pressed the right buttons and filled the right taps.


Listen, first of all, you are not stupid just because you do not know
something, that is why you ask questions. Stupid is not even asking
the question. Some multimeters can be a bit confusing but generallt
you use one set of lead connections for volt and ohms and another for
AMP if your meter supports that (those terminals have a shunt accross
them internally for current measurements) You always what to use 1K
range on ohm meter when checking light bulbs. Also transformers
generally rarely fail and when they do there is usually little doubt
because they will appear or smell burnt. Only a few things can kill a
transformer. The first is overloading it and it overheats and
insulation in winding break down and it shorts out internally. The
second is that a winding open up internall which is really rare in a
power transformer and the third it insulation break down from time and
heat which cause it to short internally. Properly sized for load a
power transfomer can live many many years.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

SnoMan

On Wed, 30 May 2007 17:23:29 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
<crwlr@verizon.net> wrote:

>Adding insult to stupidity, my meter told me that the lamp was very nearly a
>dead short -- as you said it should be -- and that the transformer I had
>wasn't putting out anything. Now that I bought a new transformer, I find
>that the lamp is toast and the old transformer is actually still good. I
>haven't figured out if the meter lied, or I asked the wrong questions -- it
>is loaded up with a ---- load of buttons and input taps, and it seems now
>that I may not have pressed the right buttons and filled the right taps.


Listen, first of all, you are not stupid just because you do not know
something, that is why you ask questions. Stupid is not even asking
the question. Some multimeters can be a bit confusing but generallt
you use one set of lead connections for volt and ohms and another for
AMP if your meter supports that (those terminals have a shunt accross
them internally for current measurements) You always what to use 1K
range on ohm meter when checking light bulbs. Also transformers
generally rarely fail and when they do there is usually little doubt
because they will appear or smell burnt. Only a few things can kill a
transformer. The first is overloading it and it overheats and
insulation in winding break down and it shorts out internally. The
second is that a winding open up internall which is really rare in a
power transformer and the third it insulation break down from time and
heat which cause it to short internally. Properly sized for load a
power transfomer can live many many years.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

SnoMan

On Wed, 30 May 2007 17:21:06 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

>I also have worked on pools in various sizes since the 70's and have a
>good working knowledge of the power setups so swapping over to a line
>voltage light was easy.


Obviously you do not because the reason they use reduced voltage
lights around pools and outside is to reduce threat of shock. Only a
idiot would sugeest to upgrade a 24 volt pool light system to wall
voltage. It does kinda fall in line with other comments or ideas you
post in other areas so this is no surprise.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com