Earle Horton

I got $4500 cash for my wife's FJ40. Then she went out and bought a CRV to
replace it. Yeah I know, but that's what she wanted! Now I don't have to
put in a V8 and wrestle with one of the Painless or Howell wiring kits,
transmission adapters, radiator, exhaust, etc., etc. You could try selling
the CJ2 on your local paper, or park it in a conspicuous place with a sign
in the windshield. It is a little like fishing. If they are biting, you
may get lucky. If they are not biting in your area, then go with plan "B".

Your math on the rear axle ratio versus rpms is correct. Your math on the
Howell wiring kit is good too. If you knew the FI systems and how they
worked, then wiring up the electronics without a kit would be easy, using a
junk vehicle as a donor. That is a pretty big "if" though. And that is
only one phase of the conversion.

Earle

<eselk@surfbest.net> wrote in message
news:1147127807.351277.95860@e56g2000cwe.googlegro ups.com...
> If Howell Engine Dev. can get $550 for that wiring kit for the Vortec
> with elec. trans... I guess that answers the question of the
> electronics being a mess. If someone is willing to pay that much for
> an "easy" fix, which doesn't even look that easy, it must be a real
> pain without the kit.
>
> Are there any calculators on-line that will do the math for me? I'm
> pretty good with numbers (better with numbers than words), but right
> now I'm fried. I basicly took my current gear ratio, and then figured
> out that the new gear ratio was 30% less (for example, don't have exact
> numbers in front of me), which would translate to 30% less RPMs at the
> same speed, right? I guess one problem is I don't know what the best
> RPMs for the engine are, at cruising speed. I'm guessing somewhere
> around 2000?
>
> If I could get any of that "collector value" out of my jeep, if I sold
> it, I would, and then buy one that someone has already hacked up.
> However, the collectors don't want to pay top $, and I hate "dealing"
> with people. So if I sale it I have to deal with atleast two people,
> the person buying mine, and the person I buy one from. That's why I
> like camping, to get away from people, and also why I don't want to get
> my jeep to the point where I have to take it to someone to fix it all
> the time (once a year is fine).
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
> > An original drive train has collector value, especially if the body is
more
> > or less original. There aren't so many collector quality Jeeps left,
> > especially because of the kind of work they were designed to do.
> >
> > With 3.73 gears, I don't think you will need an overdrive to go 60. I
can
> > go 60 in my Wrangler in fourth, which is the straight through gear, and
it
> > has 4.11 gears. I can even do 70, if I want, without using the
overdrive.
> > Spend some time with a calculator, and figure out what your engine rpm
would
> > be at 60. Then maybe you will choose a TH350, or 4.11 gears instead.
> >
> > Howell Engine Developments, Inc, http://www.howellefi.com has a harness
to
> > fit the Vortec V6 into older vehicles, with or without the 4L60E. This
is
> > probably a better option than trying to find a carbureted V6 that would
> > work.
> >
> > I live at 9318 feet. It's not so bad on transmissions and transfer
cases.
> > ;^)
> >
> > Earle
> >
>

Earle Horton

I got $4500 cash for my wife's FJ40. Then she went out and bought a CRV to
replace it. Yeah I know, but that's what she wanted! Now I don't have to
put in a V8 and wrestle with one of the Painless or Howell wiring kits,
transmission adapters, radiator, exhaust, etc., etc. You could try selling
the CJ2 on your local paper, or park it in a conspicuous place with a sign
in the windshield. It is a little like fishing. If they are biting, you
may get lucky. If they are not biting in your area, then go with plan "B".

Your math on the rear axle ratio versus rpms is correct. Your math on the
Howell wiring kit is good too. If you knew the FI systems and how they
worked, then wiring up the electronics without a kit would be easy, using a
junk vehicle as a donor. That is a pretty big "if" though. And that is
only one phase of the conversion.

Earle

<eselk@surfbest.net> wrote in message
news:1147127807.351277.95860@e56g2000cwe.googlegro ups.com...
> If Howell Engine Dev. can get $550 for that wiring kit for the Vortec
> with elec. trans... I guess that answers the question of the
> electronics being a mess. If someone is willing to pay that much for
> an "easy" fix, which doesn't even look that easy, it must be a real
> pain without the kit.
>
> Are there any calculators on-line that will do the math for me? I'm
> pretty good with numbers (better with numbers than words), but right
> now I'm fried. I basicly took my current gear ratio, and then figured
> out that the new gear ratio was 30% less (for example, don't have exact
> numbers in front of me), which would translate to 30% less RPMs at the
> same speed, right? I guess one problem is I don't know what the best
> RPMs for the engine are, at cruising speed. I'm guessing somewhere
> around 2000?
>
> If I could get any of that "collector value" out of my jeep, if I sold
> it, I would, and then buy one that someone has already hacked up.
> However, the collectors don't want to pay top $, and I hate "dealing"
> with people. So if I sale it I have to deal with atleast two people,
> the person buying mine, and the person I buy one from. That's why I
> like camping, to get away from people, and also why I don't want to get
> my jeep to the point where I have to take it to someone to fix it all
> the time (once a year is fine).
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
> > An original drive train has collector value, especially if the body is
more
> > or less original. There aren't so many collector quality Jeeps left,
> > especially because of the kind of work they were designed to do.
> >
> > With 3.73 gears, I don't think you will need an overdrive to go 60. I
can
> > go 60 in my Wrangler in fourth, which is the straight through gear, and
it
> > has 4.11 gears. I can even do 70, if I want, without using the
overdrive.
> > Spend some time with a calculator, and figure out what your engine rpm
would
> > be at 60. Then maybe you will choose a TH350, or 4.11 gears instead.
> >
> > Howell Engine Developments, Inc, http://www.howellefi.com has a harness
to
> > fit the Vortec V6 into older vehicles, with or without the 4L60E. This
is
> > probably a better option than trying to find a carbureted V6 that would
> > work.
> >
> > I live at 9318 feet. It's not so bad on transmissions and transfer
cases.
> > ;^)
> >
> > Earle
> >
>

Earle Horton

I got $4500 cash for my wife's FJ40. Then she went out and bought a CRV to
replace it. Yeah I know, but that's what she wanted! Now I don't have to
put in a V8 and wrestle with one of the Painless or Howell wiring kits,
transmission adapters, radiator, exhaust, etc., etc. You could try selling
the CJ2 on your local paper, or park it in a conspicuous place with a sign
in the windshield. It is a little like fishing. If they are biting, you
may get lucky. If they are not biting in your area, then go with plan "B".

Your math on the rear axle ratio versus rpms is correct. Your math on the
Howell wiring kit is good too. If you knew the FI systems and how they
worked, then wiring up the electronics without a kit would be easy, using a
junk vehicle as a donor. That is a pretty big "if" though. And that is
only one phase of the conversion.

Earle

<eselk@surfbest.net> wrote in message
news:1147127807.351277.95860@e56g2000cwe.googlegro ups.com...
> If Howell Engine Dev. can get $550 for that wiring kit for the Vortec
> with elec. trans... I guess that answers the question of the
> electronics being a mess. If someone is willing to pay that much for
> an "easy" fix, which doesn't even look that easy, it must be a real
> pain without the kit.
>
> Are there any calculators on-line that will do the math for me? I'm
> pretty good with numbers (better with numbers than words), but right
> now I'm fried. I basicly took my current gear ratio, and then figured
> out that the new gear ratio was 30% less (for example, don't have exact
> numbers in front of me), which would translate to 30% less RPMs at the
> same speed, right? I guess one problem is I don't know what the best
> RPMs for the engine are, at cruising speed. I'm guessing somewhere
> around 2000?
>
> If I could get any of that "collector value" out of my jeep, if I sold
> it, I would, and then buy one that someone has already hacked up.
> However, the collectors don't want to pay top $, and I hate "dealing"
> with people. So if I sale it I have to deal with atleast two people,
> the person buying mine, and the person I buy one from. That's why I
> like camping, to get away from people, and also why I don't want to get
> my jeep to the point where I have to take it to someone to fix it all
> the time (once a year is fine).
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
> > An original drive train has collector value, especially if the body is
more
> > or less original. There aren't so many collector quality Jeeps left,
> > especially because of the kind of work they were designed to do.
> >
> > With 3.73 gears, I don't think you will need an overdrive to go 60. I
can
> > go 60 in my Wrangler in fourth, which is the straight through gear, and
it
> > has 4.11 gears. I can even do 70, if I want, without using the
overdrive.
> > Spend some time with a calculator, and figure out what your engine rpm
would
> > be at 60. Then maybe you will choose a TH350, or 4.11 gears instead.
> >
> > Howell Engine Developments, Inc, http://www.howellefi.com has a harness
to
> > fit the Vortec V6 into older vehicles, with or without the 4L60E. This
is
> > probably a better option than trying to find a carbureted V6 that would
> > work.
> >
> > I live at 9318 feet. It's not so bad on transmissions and transfer
cases.
> > ;^)
> >
> > Earle
> >
>

eselk@surfbest.net

Thanks for the RPM info. One think I like about my 48 is that I don't
have to worry about emission testing. Guess it would still be easier
(although not legal) to buy a newer jeep and put my 48 plate on it.
Not much different than some guys who swap parts on their 48 until it
is 99% newer model anyway, which I think is legal (in Arizona anyway).

Mostly I just don't want all of the "junk" they put in new vehicles.
But maybe you can't have both, an engine compartment that two people
can stand inside of and work, and also a drive train that can hold up
to 60 MPH going up hill. I know my 64 1/2 Mustang couldn't take hills
at that speed, with the straight 6, or the 289 V8. It would take them,
but every few months I'd have to rebuild something due to the stress.
I guess people didn't travel much, or very far, back in the 60s.

RoyJ wrote:
> Most 80's and 90's 6 cyl engines like running in the 2200 to 2600 rpm
> range for cruising. The smaller 4 cyl ohc models will buzz along at
> 3000+ all day long. Even the Jeep 4 cyl runs at 3000 while cruising.
> Chevy V-8 will loaf along at anything from 2000 to 3000.
>
> Doing a full drive train swap (engine,tranny, transfer case, front axle,
> rear axle, mounts, and wiring) is a BIG job even if you have a doner
> vehicle sitting 10' away. Without a doner it's also big $$$. Not for the
> faint hearted.
>
> Seems to me you would be better off selling the CJ2 to a collector and
> getting a '97 to '99 TJ. Around here, I think you could get that for
> just about even money. (About $5000 on each deal) Certainly would be
> much easier, TJ is MUCH more reliable, better handling, smoother ride,
> heavier duty suspension, etc etc etc.
>

eselk@surfbest.net

Thanks for the RPM info. One think I like about my 48 is that I don't
have to worry about emission testing. Guess it would still be easier
(although not legal) to buy a newer jeep and put my 48 plate on it.
Not much different than some guys who swap parts on their 48 until it
is 99% newer model anyway, which I think is legal (in Arizona anyway).

Mostly I just don't want all of the "junk" they put in new vehicles.
But maybe you can't have both, an engine compartment that two people
can stand inside of and work, and also a drive train that can hold up
to 60 MPH going up hill. I know my 64 1/2 Mustang couldn't take hills
at that speed, with the straight 6, or the 289 V8. It would take them,
but every few months I'd have to rebuild something due to the stress.
I guess people didn't travel much, or very far, back in the 60s.

RoyJ wrote:
> Most 80's and 90's 6 cyl engines like running in the 2200 to 2600 rpm
> range for cruising. The smaller 4 cyl ohc models will buzz along at
> 3000+ all day long. Even the Jeep 4 cyl runs at 3000 while cruising.
> Chevy V-8 will loaf along at anything from 2000 to 3000.
>
> Doing a full drive train swap (engine,tranny, transfer case, front axle,
> rear axle, mounts, and wiring) is a BIG job even if you have a doner
> vehicle sitting 10' away. Without a doner it's also big $$$. Not for the
> faint hearted.
>
> Seems to me you would be better off selling the CJ2 to a collector and
> getting a '97 to '99 TJ. Around here, I think you could get that for
> just about even money. (About $5000 on each deal) Certainly would be
> much easier, TJ is MUCH more reliable, better handling, smoother ride,
> heavier duty suspension, etc etc etc.
>

eselk@surfbest.net

Thanks for the RPM info. One think I like about my 48 is that I don't
have to worry about emission testing. Guess it would still be easier
(although not legal) to buy a newer jeep and put my 48 plate on it.
Not much different than some guys who swap parts on their 48 until it
is 99% newer model anyway, which I think is legal (in Arizona anyway).

Mostly I just don't want all of the "junk" they put in new vehicles.
But maybe you can't have both, an engine compartment that two people
can stand inside of and work, and also a drive train that can hold up
to 60 MPH going up hill. I know my 64 1/2 Mustang couldn't take hills
at that speed, with the straight 6, or the 289 V8. It would take them,
but every few months I'd have to rebuild something due to the stress.
I guess people didn't travel much, or very far, back in the 60s.

RoyJ wrote:
> Most 80's and 90's 6 cyl engines like running in the 2200 to 2600 rpm
> range for cruising. The smaller 4 cyl ohc models will buzz along at
> 3000+ all day long. Even the Jeep 4 cyl runs at 3000 while cruising.
> Chevy V-8 will loaf along at anything from 2000 to 3000.
>
> Doing a full drive train swap (engine,tranny, transfer case, front axle,
> rear axle, mounts, and wiring) is a BIG job even if you have a doner
> vehicle sitting 10' away. Without a doner it's also big $$$. Not for the
> faint hearted.
>
> Seems to me you would be better off selling the CJ2 to a collector and
> getting a '97 to '99 TJ. Around here, I think you could get that for
> just about even money. (About $5000 on each deal) Certainly would be
> much easier, TJ is MUCH more reliable, better handling, smoother ride,
> heavier duty suspension, etc etc etc.
>

eselk@surfbest.net

Yah, and *my* jeep is technicly my wifes. That is what she wanted,
even though I tried to talk her out of it (I knew I'd spend all of my
time working on it, like I did with the last 3 I've owned). Worked out
nice though, because she can't get so mad that I'm spending time/money
on "her" jeep. I don't want a CRV (but she might)!

Since no one has said "EFI is easy", and it also sounds like the
auto-tranny is out due to length. Guess I'll just go with whatever is
easiest at this point, even if it means it still may be hard to find
parts. That is probably the Buick 225 V6, which I've done before. I
can keep my tranny and xfer case (plan on rebuilding them often, but at
least they are cheap and easy to work on). I will need new front and
rear ends though, since I want to change the gear ratio this time.
Wish I could just change the gears on mine, because if I change the
front-end I think I'll also need to change the steering.

Starting to see a donor CJ5 in my future... Wonder if I can find one
with a stock V6, so I can get the engine and axles all in one place.

Earle Horton wrote:
> I got $4500 cash for my wife's FJ40. Then she went out and bought a CRV to
> replace it. Yeah I know, but that's what she wanted! Now I don't have to
> put in a V8 and wrestle with one of the Painless or Howell wiring kits,
> transmission adapters, radiator, exhaust, etc., etc. You could try selling
> the CJ2 on your local paper, or park it in a conspicuous place with a sign
> in the windshield. It is a little like fishing. If they are biting, you
> may get lucky. If they are not biting in your area, then go with plan "B".
>
> Your math on the rear axle ratio versus rpms is correct. Your math on the
> Howell wiring kit is good too. If you knew the FI systems and how they
> worked, then wiring up the electronics without a kit would be easy, using a
> junk vehicle as a donor. That is a pretty big "if" though. And that is
> only one phase of the conversion.

eselk@surfbest.net

Yah, and *my* jeep is technicly my wifes. That is what she wanted,
even though I tried to talk her out of it (I knew I'd spend all of my
time working on it, like I did with the last 3 I've owned). Worked out
nice though, because she can't get so mad that I'm spending time/money
on "her" jeep. I don't want a CRV (but she might)!

Since no one has said "EFI is easy", and it also sounds like the
auto-tranny is out due to length. Guess I'll just go with whatever is
easiest at this point, even if it means it still may be hard to find
parts. That is probably the Buick 225 V6, which I've done before. I
can keep my tranny and xfer case (plan on rebuilding them often, but at
least they are cheap and easy to work on). I will need new front and
rear ends though, since I want to change the gear ratio this time.
Wish I could just change the gears on mine, because if I change the
front-end I think I'll also need to change the steering.

Starting to see a donor CJ5 in my future... Wonder if I can find one
with a stock V6, so I can get the engine and axles all in one place.

Earle Horton wrote:
> I got $4500 cash for my wife's FJ40. Then she went out and bought a CRV to
> replace it. Yeah I know, but that's what she wanted! Now I don't have to
> put in a V8 and wrestle with one of the Painless or Howell wiring kits,
> transmission adapters, radiator, exhaust, etc., etc. You could try selling
> the CJ2 on your local paper, or park it in a conspicuous place with a sign
> in the windshield. It is a little like fishing. If they are biting, you
> may get lucky. If they are not biting in your area, then go with plan "B".
>
> Your math on the rear axle ratio versus rpms is correct. Your math on the
> Howell wiring kit is good too. If you knew the FI systems and how they
> worked, then wiring up the electronics without a kit would be easy, using a
> junk vehicle as a donor. That is a pretty big "if" though. And that is
> only one phase of the conversion.

eselk@surfbest.net

Yah, and *my* jeep is technicly my wifes. That is what she wanted,
even though I tried to talk her out of it (I knew I'd spend all of my
time working on it, like I did with the last 3 I've owned). Worked out
nice though, because she can't get so mad that I'm spending time/money
on "her" jeep. I don't want a CRV (but she might)!

Since no one has said "EFI is easy", and it also sounds like the
auto-tranny is out due to length. Guess I'll just go with whatever is
easiest at this point, even if it means it still may be hard to find
parts. That is probably the Buick 225 V6, which I've done before. I
can keep my tranny and xfer case (plan on rebuilding them often, but at
least they are cheap and easy to work on). I will need new front and
rear ends though, since I want to change the gear ratio this time.
Wish I could just change the gears on mine, because if I change the
front-end I think I'll also need to change the steering.

Starting to see a donor CJ5 in my future... Wonder if I can find one
with a stock V6, so I can get the engine and axles all in one place.

Earle Horton wrote:
> I got $4500 cash for my wife's FJ40. Then she went out and bought a CRV to
> replace it. Yeah I know, but that's what she wanted! Now I don't have to
> put in a V8 and wrestle with one of the Painless or Howell wiring kits,
> transmission adapters, radiator, exhaust, etc., etc. You could try selling
> the CJ2 on your local paper, or park it in a conspicuous place with a sign
> in the windshield. It is a little like fishing. If they are biting, you
> may get lucky. If they are not biting in your area, then go with plan "B".
>
> Your math on the rear axle ratio versus rpms is correct. Your math on the
> Howell wiring kit is good too. If you knew the FI systems and how they
> worked, then wiring up the electronics without a kit would be easy, using a
> junk vehicle as a donor. That is a pretty big "if" though. And that is
> only one phase of the conversion.

Earle Horton

Advance Adapters has an article in their Jeep Conversion Manual on Saginaw
steering conversions.

Don't rule out the automatic, if it is what you really want, until you get
the measurements on a TH350 and do the gear ratio engine speed math.

It wouldn't hurt to cruise the used car lots where you live, and see what is
available in a newer model. You could call it "research". Sometimes they
have coffee and donuts.

Earle

<eselk@surfbest.net> wrote in message
news:1147132728.188042.8330@j73g2000cwa.googlegrou ps.com...
> Yah, and *my* jeep is technicly my wifes. That is what she wanted,
> even though I tried to talk her out of it (I knew I'd spend all of my
> time working on it, like I did with the last 3 I've owned). Worked out
> nice though, because she can't get so mad that I'm spending time/money
> on "her" jeep. I don't want a CRV (but she might)!
>
> Since no one has said "EFI is easy", and it also sounds like the
> auto-tranny is out due to length. Guess I'll just go with whatever is
> easiest at this point, even if it means it still may be hard to find
> parts. That is probably the Buick 225 V6, which I've done before. I
> can keep my tranny and xfer case (plan on rebuilding them often, but at
> least they are cheap and easy to work on). I will need new front and
> rear ends though, since I want to change the gear ratio this time.
> Wish I could just change the gears on mine, because if I change the
> front-end I think I'll also need to change the steering.
>
> Starting to see a donor CJ5 in my future... Wonder if I can find one
> with a stock V6, so I can get the engine and axles all in one place.
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
> > I got $4500 cash for my wife's FJ40. Then she went out and bought a CRV
to
> > replace it. Yeah I know, but that's what she wanted! Now I don't have
to
> > put in a V8 and wrestle with one of the Painless or Howell wiring kits,
> > transmission adapters, radiator, exhaust, etc., etc. You could try
selling
> > the CJ2 on your local paper, or park it in a conspicuous place with a
sign
> > in the windshield. It is a little like fishing. If they are biting,
you
> > may get lucky. If they are not biting in your area, then go with plan
"B".
> >
> > Your math on the rear axle ratio versus rpms is correct. Your math on
the
> > Howell wiring kit is good too. If you knew the FI systems and how they
> > worked, then wiring up the electronics without a kit would be easy,
using a
> > junk vehicle as a donor. That is a pretty big "if" though. And that is
> > only one phase of the conversion.
>