TJim

All three good books. The Jeep 4x4 Performance Handbook will teach you a
*lot* if you're starting off. Read it first.
The most important thing to remember, if you're transitioning from a Baja
Bug to a Jeep is that you don't drive them the same way. Baja Bug = fast,
Jeep = slow! With a Jeep, you crawl over obstacles (except for mud and sand
and even then, you're going considerably slower than you're probably used
to). If you try to drive your Jeep the way you would drive a Baja Bug, you
will break things and probably flip your Jeep. (Not that driving slowly is
any guarantee, right, Jenn?) More often than not, you will be in 1st gear,
4wd low range, engine at idle (or just enough throttle to keep it running)
unless you're trying to clean mud out of your tires, float on top of loose
sand, or step up onto that big rock ledge in front of you.
Another thing. Don't use 4wd on pavement. Reserve it for off road uses
unless you're on hard packed or deep snow or some other *very* slippery
surface.

--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98



"travis" <travist34removethis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a146ovoqmidtnnemahqp15j5tnao3rr2j5@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:09:54 -0400, "TJim" <jim@ranlet.nospam.com>
> shared the following:
>
> >Why do you want 37" tires?
>
> No good reason, really. That's part of why I'm asking questions out
> here. To get good, reasonable answers from people like yourself who
> have "been there." Maybe I should start with something like 33"
> tires? I run 31" truck tires on the back of a baja and they just don't
> seem that big. I wasn't thinking that a step up to 37" tires would be
> all that much, but like I said I'm really new to this.
>
> > What do you plan to do with this vehicle?
>
> I plan on using it to get to work when the weather is too nasty to
> ride my motorcycle, and I plan to go offroading with it at least 2-3
> times a month like I currently do with my baja. I know some decently
> challenging trails in the area, places I haven't even attempted to go
> all the way through with my baja. Lots of good mud around here and
> some decent rocky hills. I'd try to say something like "On a scale of
> 1-10 for difficulty I'd rate the trails a 6" or something like that,
> but I think my scale will need some serious adjusting when going from
> baja to Jeep.
>
> > I
> >would suggest you start out with something closer to stock and drive it
for
> >a while.
>
> I probably will if for no other reason that for the expense. It would
> be hard for me to get a Jeep with 33" tires in good shape and try to
> convince my wife it would be a good idea to stack them up and put over
> $1,000 into tires. ;-)
>
> > If you wanted to learn all about flying, you wouldn't go out and
> >buy a older rag wing and immediately start modifying it, would you?
>
> No, of course not. You're right and I realize that. I'm just trying
> to think ahead, I guess. I *think* I'd like to wind up with 37" or
> larger tires eventually so I was just knocking around ideas about how
> to get to that level. I don't even own a Jeep yet. :-) Hopefully
> soon.
>
> > You
> >need to get to know your vehicle and, then, make the modifications you
need
> >in order for your vehicle to perform the way you want it to. 90% of off
> >roading is in the driver ("the nut that holds the wheel"). I have seen
good
> >drivers with near stock jeeps do things that highly modified jeeps with
> >inexperienced drivers shouldn't even attempt.
>
> I agree. I've gotten pretty good at using the vehicle I have now to
> get through some stuff that surprises people all the time. I'm not
> trying to promote my website, but it's in my URL. Take a look at some
> of the stuff I've been through. I know you're right, though. I'm
> just excited about getting a Jeep. I'm gonna wind up not modifying it
> at all for probably at least 6 months until I get to know it some.
>
> >Take it slow and do your homework...
>
> Good advice. I'll try to follow it. I just ordered 3 books today
> which I hope will help:
> JEEP 4X4 PERFORMANCE HANDBOOK , JEEP OWNERS BIBLE (BOOK) ,
> HAYNES CJ MANUAL 1949-86
> Wish me luck and thanks for the response, Jim!
>
>
>
> --
> Travis
> FOR SALE: '63 VW Camo Baja... $1000 *FIRM*
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2436447561
> http://bugadventures.dyndns.org
> Words that soak into your ears are whispered, not yelled.
>
>
> :wq!

TJim

All three good books. The Jeep 4x4 Performance Handbook will teach you a
*lot* if you're starting off. Read it first.
The most important thing to remember, if you're transitioning from a Baja
Bug to a Jeep is that you don't drive them the same way. Baja Bug = fast,
Jeep = slow! With a Jeep, you crawl over obstacles (except for mud and sand
and even then, you're going considerably slower than you're probably used
to). If you try to drive your Jeep the way you would drive a Baja Bug, you
will break things and probably flip your Jeep. (Not that driving slowly is
any guarantee, right, Jenn?) More often than not, you will be in 1st gear,
4wd low range, engine at idle (or just enough throttle to keep it running)
unless you're trying to clean mud out of your tires, float on top of loose
sand, or step up onto that big rock ledge in front of you.
Another thing. Don't use 4wd on pavement. Reserve it for off road uses
unless you're on hard packed or deep snow or some other *very* slippery
surface.

--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98



"travis" <travist34removethis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a146ovoqmidtnnemahqp15j5tnao3rr2j5@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:09:54 -0400, "TJim" <jim@ranlet.nospam.com>
> shared the following:
>
> >Why do you want 37" tires?
>
> No good reason, really. That's part of why I'm asking questions out
> here. To get good, reasonable answers from people like yourself who
> have "been there." Maybe I should start with something like 33"
> tires? I run 31" truck tires on the back of a baja and they just don't
> seem that big. I wasn't thinking that a step up to 37" tires would be
> all that much, but like I said I'm really new to this.
>
> > What do you plan to do with this vehicle?
>
> I plan on using it to get to work when the weather is too nasty to
> ride my motorcycle, and I plan to go offroading with it at least 2-3
> times a month like I currently do with my baja. I know some decently
> challenging trails in the area, places I haven't even attempted to go
> all the way through with my baja. Lots of good mud around here and
> some decent rocky hills. I'd try to say something like "On a scale of
> 1-10 for difficulty I'd rate the trails a 6" or something like that,
> but I think my scale will need some serious adjusting when going from
> baja to Jeep.
>
> > I
> >would suggest you start out with something closer to stock and drive it
for
> >a while.
>
> I probably will if for no other reason that for the expense. It would
> be hard for me to get a Jeep with 33" tires in good shape and try to
> convince my wife it would be a good idea to stack them up and put over
> $1,000 into tires. ;-)
>
> > If you wanted to learn all about flying, you wouldn't go out and
> >buy a older rag wing and immediately start modifying it, would you?
>
> No, of course not. You're right and I realize that. I'm just trying
> to think ahead, I guess. I *think* I'd like to wind up with 37" or
> larger tires eventually so I was just knocking around ideas about how
> to get to that level. I don't even own a Jeep yet. :-) Hopefully
> soon.
>
> > You
> >need to get to know your vehicle and, then, make the modifications you
need
> >in order for your vehicle to perform the way you want it to. 90% of off
> >roading is in the driver ("the nut that holds the wheel"). I have seen
good
> >drivers with near stock jeeps do things that highly modified jeeps with
> >inexperienced drivers shouldn't even attempt.
>
> I agree. I've gotten pretty good at using the vehicle I have now to
> get through some stuff that surprises people all the time. I'm not
> trying to promote my website, but it's in my URL. Take a look at some
> of the stuff I've been through. I know you're right, though. I'm
> just excited about getting a Jeep. I'm gonna wind up not modifying it
> at all for probably at least 6 months until I get to know it some.
>
> >Take it slow and do your homework...
>
> Good advice. I'll try to follow it. I just ordered 3 books today
> which I hope will help:
> JEEP 4X4 PERFORMANCE HANDBOOK , JEEP OWNERS BIBLE (BOOK) ,
> HAYNES CJ MANUAL 1949-86
> Wish me luck and thanks for the response, Jim!
>
>
>
> --
> Travis
> FOR SALE: '63 VW Camo Baja... $1000 *FIRM*
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2436447561
> http://bugadventures.dyndns.org
> Words that soak into your ears are whispered, not yelled.
>
>
> :wq!

Jeff Strickland

"travis" <travist34removethis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:s016ov8r8sgvblujrulktke4kaf7vdobit@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:12:28 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
> <beerman@yahoo.com> shared the following:
>
> >
> >"travis" <travist34removethis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:j5k4ovk67d83k15pbfclet2lhin0l6s5or@4ax.com.. .
> >> Hi y'all. I have Jeep-on-the-brain. I'm hoping to be able to buy my
> >> first Jeep by end of March at the latest, so I'm starting to read up
> >> some to get up to speed so I can make an intelligent purchase. I'm
> >> starting to look towards a late 70's model CJ5 or CJ7 with V8 and
> >> manual tranny. I have a bunch of questions that I'd appreciate input
> >> on from y'all and here they are... I apologize in advance if the
> >> fomat of this post is out-of-whack since I've cut-and-pasted some
> >> questions into here from different sources.
> >>
> >> I found a good page for reference numbers on AMC engines:
> >> http://home.att.net/~farna/amtech/engines.html
> >>
> >> Looks like both V8s 304 and 360) have enough cubic inches to put out
> >> some real power with the right tweaks. I'm just wondering what the
> >> proven "right tweaks" are for these engines.
> >
> >You get more than enough power for most types of offroading from the 4
> >banger. Your intrest in the big V8s sends chills down my spine. It
appears
> >to me that you are looking to build a street racer, and Jeeps just make
very
> >poor platforms for that sort of thing. A better Jeep is one that can be
> >tolerated to drive on the street, but really shines when there is no
> >pavement to be found for miles.
>
> I just figured too much power would be better than not enough. I
> don't intend to keep my foot slammed to the floor while driving it.
>
> >
> >
> >As far as lifts go, I've
> >> seen the spring-over lift idea. At a glance it looks simple to do...
> >> Looks like it would give you some really effective and immediate lift,
> >> too. Drawbacks to it? Probably inexpensive to do it, too.
> >
> >It turns out that a spring over costs about the same as putting on new
> >springs. The problem is, there is a lot of fabrication work that must be
> >done to make the spring over work. You either need a large wallet, or
> >significant skills.
> >
> >
> >I'm lucky
> >> enough to have good welder and can make strong (but not pretty) welds
> >> with it. There are better lift options? Probably? Pointers to a
> >> good website that shows the installation of good lift kit with good
> >> explanations of what's going on as they do it? I think if I get a
> >> stock CJ (if such a thing still exists :-) that I'll probably only
> >> want to lift it about 4" and then maybe put a 2-3" body lift on it and
> >> maybe do some body trimming to fit tires if needed.
> >
> >Why in Hell would you want to even consider 3" of body lift.
>
> Do you see the word "Newbie" in the subject?
>
> > You are
> >definitely a poser if this amount of body lift is even remotely
interesting
> >to you.
>
> Back off, dude. I was thinking around 37" tires. What kind of
> suspension/body lift would I need to clear that, since you obviously
> know more about this stuff than me? I *said* I was new to this. I
> was asking innocent questions. I'd appreciate it if you'd either
> answer me politely or just don't answer me at all.
>
> >
> >
> >Are the suspension
> >> lift kits and body lift kits something someone can do on their own in
> >> a garage at home if they have a "pretty good set" of tools including a
> >> welder? (I realize that's kind of a loaded question but maybe the
> >> responses to it will give me a good idea if it can be done or not or
> >> it it's just something to forget about trying on my own.)
> >
> >My teen-aged daughter can install new springs, certainly you can figure
it
> >out.
> >
>
> You have a bad day at work or something? You're coming off like a
> real jerk.
>
> >
> >
> >I've read
> >> what a "lincoln locker" is and why it's a "bad thing" so I'd wanna
> >> stay away from that.
> >
> >The differential allows the tires on each side of the vehicle to turn at
> >different speeds, such as might happen backing out of your driveway and
> >turning into the street. The Lincoln Locker simply welds the spider gears
to
> >the carrier so both tires always turn at the same speed. You figure it
out
> >what the obvious problem is with this set up.
>
> I *said* "I've read what a "lincoln locker" is and why it's a "bad
> thing" so I'd wanna stay away from that." Maybe if you'd read my post
> before responding to it? I don't want to get started on the wrong
> foot out here so how about cutting me a little slack instead of
> jumping all over my case when I ask a few simple, admittedly "newbie"
> questions? So far you've been the only one to be rude to me in your
> responses.
>
>

I did read your post.

I wasn't trying to be rude, only truthful. You do not need a big old V8,
which is a large part of why you can't even get them anymore. Running 37s on
a CJ is crazy and unnecessary, most of us here run 32s or 33s. A few run
35s. The vast majority of Jeeps run on 32s or 33s.

You don't want a Lincoln Locker if you loan if you plan on driving on the
street. If you live in the Snow Belt, you might not want a Detroit Locker
either, in this case you will probably want to look towards the manual
lockers like the ARB or the Ox. The manual lockers can be switched on and
off as the needs demand. The problem with an auto locker, like a Detroit, in
the Snow Belt is the tires on the locked axle turn at the same speed all the
time, and if you encounter a slick surface, like ice, with a locker, the
vehicle can move to the side very suddenly. We call a locker a Low Side
Finder because the vehicle will (that's WILL) move to the low side of the
road very quickly if you are not careful.

My honest suggestion is to get into a Jeep, CJ or YJ (frankly a TJ is
probably better than either of the others for out-of-box capability and
modification acceptance) with a 258 ci (4.2L) or 4.0L I6 motor. You should
start with tires in the range of 32 or 33 inches and gears in the range of
4.56:1. With 4.56 gears and 33s, you will be able to drive on the freeways
easily, and you can crawl along over stumps and boulders. If you later find
that you really need 37s, then you will also need to get new axles anyhow,
and then you will be wanting gearsets in the range of 5.22. Supporting 37"
tires is going to be a huge project that probably should not be attempted by
the run-of-the-mill shadetree mechanic.

Given your expressed intentions, I would be encouraging you to dial in on
Jeeps with a D44 rear axle. The CJs will probably not have this option on
them. The reality is that the D44 was not even a factory option on the CJ
until after the production runs you have expressed an interest in, and the
D44 was applied to many of the last year's production of the CJ7. It is a
factory option of the TJ, and many TJs that were dealer stock had the D44
installed on them so customers could "take one home tonight."

The coil spring suspension of the TJ is remarkably better in many areas than
the old leaf springs used on the CJ and YJ.

Jeff Strickland

"travis" <travist34removethis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:s016ov8r8sgvblujrulktke4kaf7vdobit@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:12:28 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
> <beerman@yahoo.com> shared the following:
>
> >
> >"travis" <travist34removethis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:j5k4ovk67d83k15pbfclet2lhin0l6s5or@4ax.com.. .
> >> Hi y'all. I have Jeep-on-the-brain. I'm hoping to be able to buy my
> >> first Jeep by end of March at the latest, so I'm starting to read up
> >> some to get up to speed so I can make an intelligent purchase. I'm
> >> starting to look towards a late 70's model CJ5 or CJ7 with V8 and
> >> manual tranny. I have a bunch of questions that I'd appreciate input
> >> on from y'all and here they are... I apologize in advance if the
> >> fomat of this post is out-of-whack since I've cut-and-pasted some
> >> questions into here from different sources.
> >>
> >> I found a good page for reference numbers on AMC engines:
> >> http://home.att.net/~farna/amtech/engines.html
> >>
> >> Looks like both V8s 304 and 360) have enough cubic inches to put out
> >> some real power with the right tweaks. I'm just wondering what the
> >> proven "right tweaks" are for these engines.
> >
> >You get more than enough power for most types of offroading from the 4
> >banger. Your intrest in the big V8s sends chills down my spine. It
appears
> >to me that you are looking to build a street racer, and Jeeps just make
very
> >poor platforms for that sort of thing. A better Jeep is one that can be
> >tolerated to drive on the street, but really shines when there is no
> >pavement to be found for miles.
>
> I just figured too much power would be better than not enough. I
> don't intend to keep my foot slammed to the floor while driving it.
>
> >
> >
> >As far as lifts go, I've
> >> seen the spring-over lift idea. At a glance it looks simple to do...
> >> Looks like it would give you some really effective and immediate lift,
> >> too. Drawbacks to it? Probably inexpensive to do it, too.
> >
> >It turns out that a spring over costs about the same as putting on new
> >springs. The problem is, there is a lot of fabrication work that must be
> >done to make the spring over work. You either need a large wallet, or
> >significant skills.
> >
> >
> >I'm lucky
> >> enough to have good welder and can make strong (but not pretty) welds
> >> with it. There are better lift options? Probably? Pointers to a
> >> good website that shows the installation of good lift kit with good
> >> explanations of what's going on as they do it? I think if I get a
> >> stock CJ (if such a thing still exists :-) that I'll probably only
> >> want to lift it about 4" and then maybe put a 2-3" body lift on it and
> >> maybe do some body trimming to fit tires if needed.
> >
> >Why in Hell would you want to even consider 3" of body lift.
>
> Do you see the word "Newbie" in the subject?
>
> > You are
> >definitely a poser if this amount of body lift is even remotely
interesting
> >to you.
>
> Back off, dude. I was thinking around 37" tires. What kind of
> suspension/body lift would I need to clear that, since you obviously
> know more about this stuff than me? I *said* I was new to this. I
> was asking innocent questions. I'd appreciate it if you'd either
> answer me politely or just don't answer me at all.
>
> >
> >
> >Are the suspension
> >> lift kits and body lift kits something someone can do on their own in
> >> a garage at home if they have a "pretty good set" of tools including a
> >> welder? (I realize that's kind of a loaded question but maybe the
> >> responses to it will give me a good idea if it can be done or not or
> >> it it's just something to forget about trying on my own.)
> >
> >My teen-aged daughter can install new springs, certainly you can figure
it
> >out.
> >
>
> You have a bad day at work or something? You're coming off like a
> real jerk.
>
> >
> >
> >I've read
> >> what a "lincoln locker" is and why it's a "bad thing" so I'd wanna
> >> stay away from that.
> >
> >The differential allows the tires on each side of the vehicle to turn at
> >different speeds, such as might happen backing out of your driveway and
> >turning into the street. The Lincoln Locker simply welds the spider gears
to
> >the carrier so both tires always turn at the same speed. You figure it
out
> >what the obvious problem is with this set up.
>
> I *said* "I've read what a "lincoln locker" is and why it's a "bad
> thing" so I'd wanna stay away from that." Maybe if you'd read my post
> before responding to it? I don't want to get started on the wrong
> foot out here so how about cutting me a little slack instead of
> jumping all over my case when I ask a few simple, admittedly "newbie"
> questions? So far you've been the only one to be rude to me in your
> responses.
>
>

I did read your post.

I wasn't trying to be rude, only truthful. You do not need a big old V8,
which is a large part of why you can't even get them anymore. Running 37s on
a CJ is crazy and unnecessary, most of us here run 32s or 33s. A few run
35s. The vast majority of Jeeps run on 32s or 33s.

You don't want a Lincoln Locker if you loan if you plan on driving on the
street. If you live in the Snow Belt, you might not want a Detroit Locker
either, in this case you will probably want to look towards the manual
lockers like the ARB or the Ox. The manual lockers can be switched on and
off as the needs demand. The problem with an auto locker, like a Detroit, in
the Snow Belt is the tires on the locked axle turn at the same speed all the
time, and if you encounter a slick surface, like ice, with a locker, the
vehicle can move to the side very suddenly. We call a locker a Low Side
Finder because the vehicle will (that's WILL) move to the low side of the
road very quickly if you are not careful.

My honest suggestion is to get into a Jeep, CJ or YJ (frankly a TJ is
probably better than either of the others for out-of-box capability and
modification acceptance) with a 258 ci (4.2L) or 4.0L I6 motor. You should
start with tires in the range of 32 or 33 inches and gears in the range of
4.56:1. With 4.56 gears and 33s, you will be able to drive on the freeways
easily, and you can crawl along over stumps and boulders. If you later find
that you really need 37s, then you will also need to get new axles anyhow,
and then you will be wanting gearsets in the range of 5.22. Supporting 37"
tires is going to be a huge project that probably should not be attempted by
the run-of-the-mill shadetree mechanic.

Given your expressed intentions, I would be encouraging you to dial in on
Jeeps with a D44 rear axle. The CJs will probably not have this option on
them. The reality is that the D44 was not even a factory option on the CJ
until after the production runs you have expressed an interest in, and the
D44 was applied to many of the last year's production of the CJ7. It is a
factory option of the TJ, and many TJs that were dealer stock had the D44
installed on them so customers could "take one home tonight."

The coil spring suspension of the TJ is remarkably better in many areas than
the old leaf springs used on the CJ and YJ.

Jeff Strickland

"travis" <travist34removethis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:s016ov8r8sgvblujrulktke4kaf7vdobit@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:12:28 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
> <beerman@yahoo.com> shared the following:
>
> >
> >"travis" <travist34removethis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:j5k4ovk67d83k15pbfclet2lhin0l6s5or@4ax.com.. .
> >> Hi y'all. I have Jeep-on-the-brain. I'm hoping to be able to buy my
> >> first Jeep by end of March at the latest, so I'm starting to read up
> >> some to get up to speed so I can make an intelligent purchase. I'm
> >> starting to look towards a late 70's model CJ5 or CJ7 with V8 and
> >> manual tranny. I have a bunch of questions that I'd appreciate input
> >> on from y'all and here they are... I apologize in advance if the
> >> fomat of this post is out-of-whack since I've cut-and-pasted some
> >> questions into here from different sources.
> >>
> >> I found a good page for reference numbers on AMC engines:
> >> http://home.att.net/~farna/amtech/engines.html
> >>
> >> Looks like both V8s 304 and 360) have enough cubic inches to put out
> >> some real power with the right tweaks. I'm just wondering what the
> >> proven "right tweaks" are for these engines.
> >
> >You get more than enough power for most types of offroading from the 4
> >banger. Your intrest in the big V8s sends chills down my spine. It
appears
> >to me that you are looking to build a street racer, and Jeeps just make
very
> >poor platforms for that sort of thing. A better Jeep is one that can be
> >tolerated to drive on the street, but really shines when there is no
> >pavement to be found for miles.
>
> I just figured too much power would be better than not enough. I
> don't intend to keep my foot slammed to the floor while driving it.
>
> >
> >
> >As far as lifts go, I've
> >> seen the spring-over lift idea. At a glance it looks simple to do...
> >> Looks like it would give you some really effective and immediate lift,
> >> too. Drawbacks to it? Probably inexpensive to do it, too.
> >
> >It turns out that a spring over costs about the same as putting on new
> >springs. The problem is, there is a lot of fabrication work that must be
> >done to make the spring over work. You either need a large wallet, or
> >significant skills.
> >
> >
> >I'm lucky
> >> enough to have good welder and can make strong (but not pretty) welds
> >> with it. There are better lift options? Probably? Pointers to a
> >> good website that shows the installation of good lift kit with good
> >> explanations of what's going on as they do it? I think if I get a
> >> stock CJ (if such a thing still exists :-) that I'll probably only
> >> want to lift it about 4" and then maybe put a 2-3" body lift on it and
> >> maybe do some body trimming to fit tires if needed.
> >
> >Why in Hell would you want to even consider 3" of body lift.
>
> Do you see the word "Newbie" in the subject?
>
> > You are
> >definitely a poser if this amount of body lift is even remotely
interesting
> >to you.
>
> Back off, dude. I was thinking around 37" tires. What kind of
> suspension/body lift would I need to clear that, since you obviously
> know more about this stuff than me? I *said* I was new to this. I
> was asking innocent questions. I'd appreciate it if you'd either
> answer me politely or just don't answer me at all.
>
> >
> >
> >Are the suspension
> >> lift kits and body lift kits something someone can do on their own in
> >> a garage at home if they have a "pretty good set" of tools including a
> >> welder? (I realize that's kind of a loaded question but maybe the
> >> responses to it will give me a good idea if it can be done or not or
> >> it it's just something to forget about trying on my own.)
> >
> >My teen-aged daughter can install new springs, certainly you can figure
it
> >out.
> >
>
> You have a bad day at work or something? You're coming off like a
> real jerk.
>
> >
> >
> >I've read
> >> what a "lincoln locker" is and why it's a "bad thing" so I'd wanna
> >> stay away from that.
> >
> >The differential allows the tires on each side of the vehicle to turn at
> >different speeds, such as might happen backing out of your driveway and
> >turning into the street. The Lincoln Locker simply welds the spider gears
to
> >the carrier so both tires always turn at the same speed. You figure it
out
> >what the obvious problem is with this set up.
>
> I *said* "I've read what a "lincoln locker" is and why it's a "bad
> thing" so I'd wanna stay away from that." Maybe if you'd read my post
> before responding to it? I don't want to get started on the wrong
> foot out here so how about cutting me a little slack instead of
> jumping all over my case when I ask a few simple, admittedly "newbie"
> questions? So far you've been the only one to be rude to me in your
> responses.
>
>

I did read your post.

I wasn't trying to be rude, only truthful. You do not need a big old V8,
which is a large part of why you can't even get them anymore. Running 37s on
a CJ is crazy and unnecessary, most of us here run 32s or 33s. A few run
35s. The vast majority of Jeeps run on 32s or 33s.

You don't want a Lincoln Locker if you loan if you plan on driving on the
street. If you live in the Snow Belt, you might not want a Detroit Locker
either, in this case you will probably want to look towards the manual
lockers like the ARB or the Ox. The manual lockers can be switched on and
off as the needs demand. The problem with an auto locker, like a Detroit, in
the Snow Belt is the tires on the locked axle turn at the same speed all the
time, and if you encounter a slick surface, like ice, with a locker, the
vehicle can move to the side very suddenly. We call a locker a Low Side
Finder because the vehicle will (that's WILL) move to the low side of the
road very quickly if you are not careful.

My honest suggestion is to get into a Jeep, CJ or YJ (frankly a TJ is
probably better than either of the others for out-of-box capability and
modification acceptance) with a 258 ci (4.2L) or 4.0L I6 motor. You should
start with tires in the range of 32 or 33 inches and gears in the range of
4.56:1. With 4.56 gears and 33s, you will be able to drive on the freeways
easily, and you can crawl along over stumps and boulders. If you later find
that you really need 37s, then you will also need to get new axles anyhow,
and then you will be wanting gearsets in the range of 5.22. Supporting 37"
tires is going to be a huge project that probably should not be attempted by
the run-of-the-mill shadetree mechanic.

Given your expressed intentions, I would be encouraging you to dial in on
Jeeps with a D44 rear axle. The CJs will probably not have this option on
them. The reality is that the D44 was not even a factory option on the CJ
until after the production runs you have expressed an interest in, and the
D44 was applied to many of the last year's production of the CJ7. It is a
factory option of the TJ, and many TJs that were dealer stock had the D44
installed on them so customers could "take one home tonight."

The coil spring suspension of the TJ is remarkably better in many areas than
the old leaf springs used on the CJ and YJ.

travis

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:40:21 -0400, "TJim" <jim@ranlet.nospam.com>
shared the following:

>All three good books. The Jeep 4x4 Performance Handbook will teach you a
>*lot* if you're starting off. Read it first.
>The most important thing to remember, if you're transitioning from a Baja
>Bug to a Jeep is that you don't drive them the same way. Baja Bug = fast,

You know it! :-) Yeah, the idea with a baja is to *charge* the big
mud puddles and for that matter, even the hills. The momentum and
light weight is what gets a baja to go where it goes. I have stock
gearing in my baja with 31" truck tires so I'm constantly slipping the
clutch and trying to get up enough speed while offroad to get my revs
up to a point where I have a little useable torque.

>Jeep = slow! With a Jeep, you crawl over obstacles (except for mud and sand
>and even then, you're going considerably slower than you're probably used
>to).

Yeah, that'll take some getting used to for me, but I'm looking
forward to learning. I have mud in my blood. ;-)

> If you try to drive your Jeep the way you would drive a Baja Bug, you
>will break things and probably flip your Jeep. (Not that driving slowly is
>any guarantee, right, Jenn?)

Sounds like an inside story. heh heh

> More often than not, you will be in 1st gear,
>4wd low range, engine at idle (or just enough throttle to keep it running)
>unless you're trying to clean mud out of your tires, float on top of loose
>sand, or step up onto that big rock ledge in front of you.
>Another thing. Don't use 4wd on pavement. Reserve it for off road uses
>unless you're on hard packed or deep snow or some other *very* slippery
>surface.

Yeah, better gas mileage that way too, right? I used to get almost
insulted when my Jeep friend would join me offroading and not switch
into 4WD. I would be like "Oh, you think you can hang with the baja
when you're only in 2WD!?!?" He would be like "Yes." And then he
would. grrr... Hey, I'm sold on the Jeep idea! :-D

>
>--
>Jim


--
Travis
FOR SALE: '63 VW Camo Baja... $1000 *FIRM*
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2436447561
http://bugadventures.dyndns.org
Words that soak into your ears are whispered, not yelled.


:wq!

travis

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:40:21 -0400, "TJim" <jim@ranlet.nospam.com>
shared the following:

>All three good books. The Jeep 4x4 Performance Handbook will teach you a
>*lot* if you're starting off. Read it first.
>The most important thing to remember, if you're transitioning from a Baja
>Bug to a Jeep is that you don't drive them the same way. Baja Bug = fast,

You know it! :-) Yeah, the idea with a baja is to *charge* the big
mud puddles and for that matter, even the hills. The momentum and
light weight is what gets a baja to go where it goes. I have stock
gearing in my baja with 31" truck tires so I'm constantly slipping the
clutch and trying to get up enough speed while offroad to get my revs
up to a point where I have a little useable torque.

>Jeep = slow! With a Jeep, you crawl over obstacles (except for mud and sand
>and even then, you're going considerably slower than you're probably used
>to).

Yeah, that'll take some getting used to for me, but I'm looking
forward to learning. I have mud in my blood. ;-)

> If you try to drive your Jeep the way you would drive a Baja Bug, you
>will break things and probably flip your Jeep. (Not that driving slowly is
>any guarantee, right, Jenn?)

Sounds like an inside story. heh heh

> More often than not, you will be in 1st gear,
>4wd low range, engine at idle (or just enough throttle to keep it running)
>unless you're trying to clean mud out of your tires, float on top of loose
>sand, or step up onto that big rock ledge in front of you.
>Another thing. Don't use 4wd on pavement. Reserve it for off road uses
>unless you're on hard packed or deep snow or some other *very* slippery
>surface.

Yeah, better gas mileage that way too, right? I used to get almost
insulted when my Jeep friend would join me offroading and not switch
into 4WD. I would be like "Oh, you think you can hang with the baja
when you're only in 2WD!?!?" He would be like "Yes." And then he
would. grrr... Hey, I'm sold on the Jeep idea! :-D

>
>--
>Jim


--
Travis
FOR SALE: '63 VW Camo Baja... $1000 *FIRM*
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2436447561
http://bugadventures.dyndns.org
Words that soak into your ears are whispered, not yelled.


:wq!

travis

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:40:21 -0400, "TJim" <jim@ranlet.nospam.com>
shared the following:

>All three good books. The Jeep 4x4 Performance Handbook will teach you a
>*lot* if you're starting off. Read it first.
>The most important thing to remember, if you're transitioning from a Baja
>Bug to a Jeep is that you don't drive them the same way. Baja Bug = fast,

You know it! :-) Yeah, the idea with a baja is to *charge* the big
mud puddles and for that matter, even the hills. The momentum and
light weight is what gets a baja to go where it goes. I have stock
gearing in my baja with 31" truck tires so I'm constantly slipping the
clutch and trying to get up enough speed while offroad to get my revs
up to a point where I have a little useable torque.

>Jeep = slow! With a Jeep, you crawl over obstacles (except for mud and sand
>and even then, you're going considerably slower than you're probably used
>to).

Yeah, that'll take some getting used to for me, but I'm looking
forward to learning. I have mud in my blood. ;-)

> If you try to drive your Jeep the way you would drive a Baja Bug, you
>will break things and probably flip your Jeep. (Not that driving slowly is
>any guarantee, right, Jenn?)

Sounds like an inside story. heh heh

> More often than not, you will be in 1st gear,
>4wd low range, engine at idle (or just enough throttle to keep it running)
>unless you're trying to clean mud out of your tires, float on top of loose
>sand, or step up onto that big rock ledge in front of you.
>Another thing. Don't use 4wd on pavement. Reserve it for off road uses
>unless you're on hard packed or deep snow or some other *very* slippery
>surface.

Yeah, better gas mileage that way too, right? I used to get almost
insulted when my Jeep friend would join me offroading and not switch
into 4WD. I would be like "Oh, you think you can hang with the baja
when you're only in 2WD!?!?" He would be like "Yes." And then he
would. grrr... Hey, I'm sold on the Jeep idea! :-D

>
>--
>Jim


--
Travis
FOR SALE: '63 VW Camo Baja... $1000 *FIRM*
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2436447561
http://bugadventures.dyndns.org
Words that soak into your ears are whispered, not yelled.


:wq!

Kevin Sperle

Travis, you're on the right path and you're asking good questions. I was
going to recommend Jim Allens "4x4 Performance Handbook" but it looks like
you already ordered it. I think you will get a LOT of great info in there.
Read it cover to cover at least twice!

There's nothing wrong with wanting to build a rock crawler type vehicle
right from the start (37" tires, 4:1 transfer case, Dana 60's, etc...).
After all, it's your money. Myself and a few friends are building ours step
by step a little each year and sometimes I wish I had just decided all the
things I wanted to do from the start and dumped the $$ in right away.
Making and remaking changes/upgrades will start nickle and diming you to
death. I'm getting ready to have my driveshafts remade for the 2nd time!

I will caution you a bit. If you want to drive this thing on the road "when
the weather is too nasty" you need to make careful choices about tire size,
gearing and lockers. A locker won't do you ANY good in bad weather (snow,
rain). It will most likely make the vehicle drive much worse. Sounds like
you need to be in the market for a selectable locker (ARB, Detroit Electrac,
OX). Keep in mind that the more "Extreme" this vehicle becomes, the more
likely it will drive like crap on the road. They steer funny (bump steer),
the center of gravity is raised (no sharp maneuvers), may stop slower (stock
brakes trying to stop 37" tires), etc..... I think you get my point. I
would not personally drivea vehicle back and forth to work that had over
about 33" tires, but that's just me. OK my CJ has 35's, but I only drive it
once a week or so, and I work like 3 miles from my house ;-)

Keep asking questions and don't be afraid to ask some "dumb" ones. I know I
did a couple years ago when I bought my CJ, and I'm glad I did. Most people
here are great and will give you a lot of valuable information.

Also keep in mind that not all answers will be 100% serious. Don't take
offense if someone makes a few smarta$$ remarks. Just shrug it off, it's
gonna happen. It's a public forum afterall.

In closing I also recommend buying/wheeling/driving the vehicle to work for
a while before I start making too many decisions about what you do and don't
need. Don't be in so much of a hurry that you make rash decisions.
Creating a good on road/off road vehicle takes time, patience and trial and
error.

Kevin
(stepping off my soapbox)


"travis" <travist34removethis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a146ovoqmidtnnemahqp15j5tnao3rr2j5@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:09:54 -0400, "TJim" <jim@ranlet.nospam.com>
> shared the following:
>
> >Why do you want 37" tires?
>
> No good reason, really. That's part of why I'm asking questions out
> here. To get good, reasonable answers from people like yourself who
> have "been there." Maybe I should start with something like 33"
> tires? I run 31" truck tires on the back of a baja and they just don't
> seem that big. I wasn't thinking that a step up to 37" tires would be
> all that much, but like I said I'm really new to this.
>
> > What do you plan to do with this vehicle?
>
> I plan on using it to get to work when the weather is too nasty to
> ride my motorcycle, and I plan to go offroading with it at least 2-3
> times a month like I currently do with my baja. I know some decently
> challenging trails in the area, places I haven't even attempted to go
> all the way through with my baja. Lots of good mud around here and
> some decent rocky hills. I'd try to say something like "On a scale of
> 1-10 for difficulty I'd rate the trails a 6" or something like that,
> but I think my scale will need some serious adjusting when going from
> baja to Jeep.
>
> > I
> >would suggest you start out with something closer to stock and drive it
for
> >a while.
>
> I probably will if for no other reason that for the expense. It would
> be hard for me to get a Jeep with 33" tires in good shape and try to
> convince my wife it would be a good idea to stack them up and put over
> $1,000 into tires. ;-)
>
> > If you wanted to learn all about flying, you wouldn't go out and
> >buy a older rag wing and immediately start modifying it, would you?
>
> No, of course not. You're right and I realize that. I'm just trying
> to think ahead, I guess. I *think* I'd like to wind up with 37" or
> larger tires eventually so I was just knocking around ideas about how
> to get to that level. I don't even own a Jeep yet. :-) Hopefully
> soon.
>
> > You
> >need to get to know your vehicle and, then, make the modifications you
need
> >in order for your vehicle to perform the way you want it to. 90% of off
> >roading is in the driver ("the nut that holds the wheel"). I have seen
good
> >drivers with near stock jeeps do things that highly modified jeeps with
> >inexperienced drivers shouldn't even attempt.
>
> I agree. I've gotten pretty good at using the vehicle I have now to
> get through some stuff that surprises people all the time. I'm not
> trying to promote my website, but it's in my URL. Take a look at some
> of the stuff I've been through. I know you're right, though. I'm
> just excited about getting a Jeep. I'm gonna wind up not modifying it
> at all for probably at least 6 months until I get to know it some.
>
> >Take it slow and do your homework...
>
> Good advice. I'll try to follow it. I just ordered 3 books today
> which I hope will help:
> JEEP 4X4 PERFORMANCE HANDBOOK , JEEP OWNERS BIBLE (BOOK) ,
> HAYNES CJ MANUAL 1949-86
> Wish me luck and thanks for the response, Jim!
>
>
>
> --
> Travis
> FOR SALE: '63 VW Camo Baja... $1000 *FIRM*
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2436447561
> http://bugadventures.dyndns.org
> Words that soak into your ears are whispered, not yelled.
>
>
> :wq!

Kevin Sperle

Travis, you're on the right path and you're asking good questions. I was
going to recommend Jim Allens "4x4 Performance Handbook" but it looks like
you already ordered it. I think you will get a LOT of great info in there.
Read it cover to cover at least twice!

There's nothing wrong with wanting to build a rock crawler type vehicle
right from the start (37" tires, 4:1 transfer case, Dana 60's, etc...).
After all, it's your money. Myself and a few friends are building ours step
by step a little each year and sometimes I wish I had just decided all the
things I wanted to do from the start and dumped the $$ in right away.
Making and remaking changes/upgrades will start nickle and diming you to
death. I'm getting ready to have my driveshafts remade for the 2nd time!

I will caution you a bit. If you want to drive this thing on the road "when
the weather is too nasty" you need to make careful choices about tire size,
gearing and lockers. A locker won't do you ANY good in bad weather (snow,
rain). It will most likely make the vehicle drive much worse. Sounds like
you need to be in the market for a selectable locker (ARB, Detroit Electrac,
OX). Keep in mind that the more "Extreme" this vehicle becomes, the more
likely it will drive like crap on the road. They steer funny (bump steer),
the center of gravity is raised (no sharp maneuvers), may stop slower (stock
brakes trying to stop 37" tires), etc..... I think you get my point. I
would not personally drivea vehicle back and forth to work that had over
about 33" tires, but that's just me. OK my CJ has 35's, but I only drive it
once a week or so, and I work like 3 miles from my house ;-)

Keep asking questions and don't be afraid to ask some "dumb" ones. I know I
did a couple years ago when I bought my CJ, and I'm glad I did. Most people
here are great and will give you a lot of valuable information.

Also keep in mind that not all answers will be 100% serious. Don't take
offense if someone makes a few smarta$$ remarks. Just shrug it off, it's
gonna happen. It's a public forum afterall.

In closing I also recommend buying/wheeling/driving the vehicle to work for
a while before I start making too many decisions about what you do and don't
need. Don't be in so much of a hurry that you make rash decisions.
Creating a good on road/off road vehicle takes time, patience and trial and
error.

Kevin
(stepping off my soapbox)


"travis" <travist34removethis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a146ovoqmidtnnemahqp15j5tnao3rr2j5@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:09:54 -0400, "TJim" <jim@ranlet.nospam.com>
> shared the following:
>
> >Why do you want 37" tires?
>
> No good reason, really. That's part of why I'm asking questions out
> here. To get good, reasonable answers from people like yourself who
> have "been there." Maybe I should start with something like 33"
> tires? I run 31" truck tires on the back of a baja and they just don't
> seem that big. I wasn't thinking that a step up to 37" tires would be
> all that much, but like I said I'm really new to this.
>
> > What do you plan to do with this vehicle?
>
> I plan on using it to get to work when the weather is too nasty to
> ride my motorcycle, and I plan to go offroading with it at least 2-3
> times a month like I currently do with my baja. I know some decently
> challenging trails in the area, places I haven't even attempted to go
> all the way through with my baja. Lots of good mud around here and
> some decent rocky hills. I'd try to say something like "On a scale of
> 1-10 for difficulty I'd rate the trails a 6" or something like that,
> but I think my scale will need some serious adjusting when going from
> baja to Jeep.
>
> > I
> >would suggest you start out with something closer to stock and drive it
for
> >a while.
>
> I probably will if for no other reason that for the expense. It would
> be hard for me to get a Jeep with 33" tires in good shape and try to
> convince my wife it would be a good idea to stack them up and put over
> $1,000 into tires. ;-)
>
> > If you wanted to learn all about flying, you wouldn't go out and
> >buy a older rag wing and immediately start modifying it, would you?
>
> No, of course not. You're right and I realize that. I'm just trying
> to think ahead, I guess. I *think* I'd like to wind up with 37" or
> larger tires eventually so I was just knocking around ideas about how
> to get to that level. I don't even own a Jeep yet. :-) Hopefully
> soon.
>
> > You
> >need to get to know your vehicle and, then, make the modifications you
need
> >in order for your vehicle to perform the way you want it to. 90% of off
> >roading is in the driver ("the nut that holds the wheel"). I have seen
good
> >drivers with near stock jeeps do things that highly modified jeeps with
> >inexperienced drivers shouldn't even attempt.
>
> I agree. I've gotten pretty good at using the vehicle I have now to
> get through some stuff that surprises people all the time. I'm not
> trying to promote my website, but it's in my URL. Take a look at some
> of the stuff I've been through. I know you're right, though. I'm
> just excited about getting a Jeep. I'm gonna wind up not modifying it
> at all for probably at least 6 months until I get to know it some.
>
> >Take it slow and do your homework...
>
> Good advice. I'll try to follow it. I just ordered 3 books today
> which I hope will help:
> JEEP 4X4 PERFORMANCE HANDBOOK , JEEP OWNERS BIBLE (BOOK) ,
> HAYNES CJ MANUAL 1949-86
> Wish me luck and thanks for the response, Jim!
>
>
>
> --
> Travis
> FOR SALE: '63 VW Camo Baja... $1000 *FIRM*
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2436447561
> http://bugadventures.dyndns.org
> Words that soak into your ears are whispered, not yelled.
>
>
> :wq!