Re: New Cam, Jeep will only run without TPS
 

jeepinacreek wrote:
> I tried you idea of reseting the PCM and turning the key and not
> starting and turning the throttle body. Didn't work. This time the was
> a lot of backfiring at very low RPM's and front firing at high RPMS?
> Any suggestions?

backfire indicates late ignition timing or excessive fuel.
frontfire (odd term, assume you mean fire out the throttle body)
indicates ignition on the intake stroke before the valve has closed
or possibly a lean condition.

The only things I can think of is your timing is way off or the plug
wires are crossed... Timing could be the distributor or the chain.

waitadarnsec.......

Just a thought, but have you made sure all the injector wires got back
on the correct injector? IIRC there are two of them that can be easily
switched up. That would sure get the fuel delivered at the wrong time
and cause lean/rich conditions.

As for the timing issue.
Kind of reminds me of this article, but your engine runs.
http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/feb99/techtotech.htm


--
DougW

Re: New Cam, Jeep will only run without TPS
 

jeepinacreek wrote:
> I tried you idea of reseting the PCM and turning the key and not
> starting and turning the throttle body. Didn't work. This time the was
> a lot of backfiring at very low RPM's and front firing at high RPMS?
> Any suggestions?

backfire indicates late ignition timing or excessive fuel.
frontfire (odd term, assume you mean fire out the throttle body)
indicates ignition on the intake stroke before the valve has closed
or possibly a lean condition.

The only things I can think of is your timing is way off or the plug
wires are crossed... Timing could be the distributor or the chain.

waitadarnsec.......

Just a thought, but have you made sure all the injector wires got back
on the correct injector? IIRC there are two of them that can be easily
switched up. That would sure get the fuel delivered at the wrong time
and cause lean/rich conditions.

As for the timing issue.
Kind of reminds me of this article, but your engine runs.
http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/feb99/techtotech.htm


--
DougW

Re: New Cam, Jeep will only run without TPS
 

jeepinacreek wrote:
> I tried you idea of reseting the PCM and turning the key and not
> starting and turning the throttle body. Didn't work. This time the was
> a lot of backfiring at very low RPM's and front firing at high RPMS?
> Any suggestions?

backfire indicates late ignition timing or excessive fuel.
frontfire (odd term, assume you mean fire out the throttle body)
indicates ignition on the intake stroke before the valve has closed
or possibly a lean condition.

The only things I can think of is your timing is way off or the plug
wires are crossed... Timing could be the distributor or the chain.

waitadarnsec.......

Just a thought, but have you made sure all the injector wires got back
on the correct injector? IIRC there are two of them that can be easily
switched up. That would sure get the fuel delivered at the wrong time
and cause lean/rich conditions.

As for the timing issue.
Kind of reminds me of this article, but your engine runs.
http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/feb99/techtotech.htm


--
DougW

Re: New Cam, Jeep will only run without TPS
 

what do you mean you set the dist.?????by the book

jeepinacreek wrote:

> I have tried setting the dist in several tooth positions. I've had no
> success with, it runs the same regardless if I advance or retard the
> crankshaft or the dist. I set the dist the way the mopar performance
> Jeep engine guide and the chiltons manual both told me. It runs great
> below 1800 RPM, purs like a kitten, but 1800+, it front and backfires
> sometimes. From what I understand, the PCM advances and retards the
> timing and the fuel.
>
> philthy wrote:
> > you have to set the timing gears bac to straight up and then you have to
> > properly resync the dist(.need factory manual for procedure) and get the dist
> > rotor past #1 cylinder tower of the dist.cap to get it in the correct place
> > even if it means spinning oil pump drive a hair and it should drop in
> >
> > "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >
> > > I am a total loss as to how it would run without the Crankshaft
> > > Position Sensor. It should default into the safe mode, with no spark
> > > advance. Maybe you have your distributor installed in such a way so that
> > > it's Cam Position Sensor somehow takes over??????? What's the timing
> > > light show, initial and total?
> > > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > >
> > > jeepinacreek wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I recently put a new cam in my 1997 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L. I figured it
> > > > was a great mod with out totaly stroking the motor. After completing
> > > > the buildup and starting it for the first time, I thought great it
> > > > runs. Then I ran up and it starting backfiring at around 1800+ RPM.
> > > > This has been my battle for the last three months.
> > > >
> > > > A little about my Jeep;
> > > > Doug thorley header
> > > > bored out 62mm throttle
> > > > MSD ignition
> > > > New catalatic convertor, Flowmaster 50 exhaust Cold air intake 4in
> > > > Curry Enterpise lift 33in tires, 4:10 gears, lockers
> > > >
> > > > What I have done to fix this so far;
> > > > -Took it the dealer, they wouldn't touch it.
> > > > -I currently have timing chain retarded -5 degree's due to pinging, cut
> > > > down on backfiring.
> > > > -I also had it advanced +5 degree's, caused a lot more backfiring.
> > > > -I also ran the cam at TDC with no advance or timing. This is the
> > > > original way I built it.
> > > > -Changed TPS
> > > > -Changed spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and coil. Currently run MSD
> > > > ignition which I disconnected and the Jeep barely ran. Connected it
> > > > back up and seems to be the only thing keeping it running. So I know
> > > > the MSD works -changed O2 sensors -changed fuel pump and filters in
> > > > tank, gas cap to.
> > > > -Changed fuel injecters to 21LB injectors, stock is around 23.5LB -Put
> > > > an air/fuel ratio gauge on it.
> > > >
> > > > So my latest attempt to get this thing running right truely has me
> > > > scratching my head, I left the TPS wire connected disconnected, drove
> > > > it and it runs fine. No backfire at 1800+ RPM, it doesn't surge,
> > > > hesitate or ping or miss or run rich. It runs great, I can drive it on
> > > > the freeway now.
> > > >
> > > > I am on my last leg with this thing. Anyone have any ideas or
> > > > suggestions?????? Please help or i may put the stock cam back in.

Re: New Cam, Jeep will only run without TPS
 

what do you mean you set the dist.?????by the book

jeepinacreek wrote:

> I have tried setting the dist in several tooth positions. I've had no
> success with, it runs the same regardless if I advance or retard the
> crankshaft or the dist. I set the dist the way the mopar performance
> Jeep engine guide and the chiltons manual both told me. It runs great
> below 1800 RPM, purs like a kitten, but 1800+, it front and backfires
> sometimes. From what I understand, the PCM advances and retards the
> timing and the fuel.
>
> philthy wrote:
> > you have to set the timing gears bac to straight up and then you have to
> > properly resync the dist(.need factory manual for procedure) and get the dist
> > rotor past #1 cylinder tower of the dist.cap to get it in the correct place
> > even if it means spinning oil pump drive a hair and it should drop in
> >
> > "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >
> > > I am a total loss as to how it would run without the Crankshaft
> > > Position Sensor. It should default into the safe mode, with no spark
> > > advance. Maybe you have your distributor installed in such a way so that
> > > it's Cam Position Sensor somehow takes over??????? What's the timing
> > > light show, initial and total?
> > > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > >
> > > jeepinacreek wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I recently put a new cam in my 1997 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L. I figured it
> > > > was a great mod with out totaly stroking the motor. After completing
> > > > the buildup and starting it for the first time, I thought great it
> > > > runs. Then I ran up and it starting backfiring at around 1800+ RPM.
> > > > This has been my battle for the last three months.
> > > >
> > > > A little about my Jeep;
> > > > Doug thorley header
> > > > bored out 62mm throttle
> > > > MSD ignition
> > > > New catalatic convertor, Flowmaster 50 exhaust Cold air intake 4in
> > > > Curry Enterpise lift 33in tires, 4:10 gears, lockers
> > > >
> > > > What I have done to fix this so far;
> > > > -Took it the dealer, they wouldn't touch it.
> > > > -I currently have timing chain retarded -5 degree's due to pinging, cut
> > > > down on backfiring.
> > > > -I also had it advanced +5 degree's, caused a lot more backfiring.
> > > > -I also ran the cam at TDC with no advance or timing. This is the
> > > > original way I built it.
> > > > -Changed TPS
> > > > -Changed spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and coil. Currently run MSD
> > > > ignition which I disconnected and the Jeep barely ran. Connected it
> > > > back up and seems to be the only thing keeping it running. So I know
> > > > the MSD works -changed O2 sensors -changed fuel pump and filters in
> > > > tank, gas cap to.
> > > > -Changed fuel injecters to 21LB injectors, stock is around 23.5LB -Put
> > > > an air/fuel ratio gauge on it.
> > > >
> > > > So my latest attempt to get this thing running right truely has me
> > > > scratching my head, I left the TPS wire connected disconnected, drove
> > > > it and it runs fine. No backfire at 1800+ RPM, it doesn't surge,
> > > > hesitate or ping or miss or run rich. It runs great, I can drive it on
> > > > the freeway now.
> > > >
> > > > I am on my last leg with this thing. Anyone have any ideas or
> > > > suggestions?????? Please help or i may put the stock cam back in.

Re: New Cam, Jeep will only run without TPS
 

what do you mean you set the dist.?????by the book

jeepinacreek wrote:

> I have tried setting the dist in several tooth positions. I've had no
> success with, it runs the same regardless if I advance or retard the
> crankshaft or the dist. I set the dist the way the mopar performance
> Jeep engine guide and the chiltons manual both told me. It runs great
> below 1800 RPM, purs like a kitten, but 1800+, it front and backfires
> sometimes. From what I understand, the PCM advances and retards the
> timing and the fuel.
>
> philthy wrote:
> > you have to set the timing gears bac to straight up and then you have to
> > properly resync the dist(.need factory manual for procedure) and get the dist
> > rotor past #1 cylinder tower of the dist.cap to get it in the correct place
> > even if it means spinning oil pump drive a hair and it should drop in
> >
> > "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >
> > > I am a total loss as to how it would run without the Crankshaft
> > > Position Sensor. It should default into the safe mode, with no spark
> > > advance. Maybe you have your distributor installed in such a way so that
> > > it's Cam Position Sensor somehow takes over??????? What's the timing
> > > light show, initial and total?
> > > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > >
> > > jeepinacreek wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I recently put a new cam in my 1997 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L. I figured it
> > > > was a great mod with out totaly stroking the motor. After completing
> > > > the buildup and starting it for the first time, I thought great it
> > > > runs. Then I ran up and it starting backfiring at around 1800+ RPM.
> > > > This has been my battle for the last three months.
> > > >
> > > > A little about my Jeep;
> > > > Doug thorley header
> > > > bored out 62mm throttle
> > > > MSD ignition
> > > > New catalatic convertor, Flowmaster 50 exhaust Cold air intake 4in
> > > > Curry Enterpise lift 33in tires, 4:10 gears, lockers
> > > >
> > > > What I have done to fix this so far;
> > > > -Took it the dealer, they wouldn't touch it.
> > > > -I currently have timing chain retarded -5 degree's due to pinging, cut
> > > > down on backfiring.
> > > > -I also had it advanced +5 degree's, caused a lot more backfiring.
> > > > -I also ran the cam at TDC with no advance or timing. This is the
> > > > original way I built it.
> > > > -Changed TPS
> > > > -Changed spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and coil. Currently run MSD
> > > > ignition which I disconnected and the Jeep barely ran. Connected it
> > > > back up and seems to be the only thing keeping it running. So I know
> > > > the MSD works -changed O2 sensors -changed fuel pump and filters in
> > > > tank, gas cap to.
> > > > -Changed fuel injecters to 21LB injectors, stock is around 23.5LB -Put
> > > > an air/fuel ratio gauge on it.
> > > >
> > > > So my latest attempt to get this thing running right truely has me
> > > > scratching my head, I left the TPS wire connected disconnected, drove
> > > > it and it runs fine. No backfire at 1800+ RPM, it doesn't surge,
> > > > hesitate or ping or miss or run rich. It runs great, I can drive it on
> > > > the freeway now.
> > > >
> > > > I am on my last leg with this thing. Anyone have any ideas or
> > > > suggestions?????? Please help or i may put the stock cam back in.

Re: New Cam, Jeep will only run without TPS
 

if you were close to me i would give ya a hand

jeepinacreek wrote:

> I live in Albuquerque, NM. Why??
> philthy wrote:
> > are u in michigan by any chance???
> >
> > "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >
> > > I am a total loss as to how it would run without the Crankshaft
> > > Position Sensor. It should default into the safe mode, with no spark
> > > advance. Maybe you have your distributor installed in such a way so that
> > > it's Cam Position Sensor somehow takes over??????? What's the timing
> > > light show, initial and total?
> > > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > >
> > > jeepinacreek wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I recently put a new cam in my 1997 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L. I figured it
> > > > was a great mod with out totaly stroking the motor. After completing
> > > > the buildup and starting it for the first time, I thought great it
> > > > runs. Then I ran up and it starting backfiring at around 1800+ RPM.
> > > > This has been my battle for the last three months.
> > > >
> > > > A little about my Jeep;
> > > > Doug thorley header
> > > > bored out 62mm throttle
> > > > MSD ignition
> > > > New catalatic convertor, Flowmaster 50 exhaust Cold air intake 4in
> > > > Curry Enterpise lift 33in tires, 4:10 gears, lockers
> > > >
> > > > What I have done to fix this so far;
> > > > -Took it the dealer, they wouldn't touch it.
> > > > -I currently have timing chain retarded -5 degree's due to pinging, cut
> > > > down on backfiring.
> > > > -I also had it advanced +5 degree's, caused a lot more backfiring.
> > > > -I also ran the cam at TDC with no advance or timing. This is the
> > > > original way I built it.
> > > > -Changed TPS
> > > > -Changed spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and coil. Currently run MSD
> > > > ignition which I disconnected and the Jeep barely ran. Connected it
> > > > back up and seems to be the only thing keeping it running. So I know
> > > > the MSD works -changed O2 sensors -changed fuel pump and filters in
> > > > tank, gas cap to.
> > > > -Changed fuel injecters to 21LB injectors, stock is around 23.5LB -Put
> > > > an air/fuel ratio gauge on it.
> > > >
> > > > So my latest attempt to get this thing running right truely has me
> > > > scratching my head, I left the TPS wire connected disconnected, drove
> > > > it and it runs fine. No backfire at 1800+ RPM, it doesn't surge,
> > > > hesitate or ping or miss or run rich. It runs great, I can drive it on
> > > > the freeway now.
> > > >
> > > > I am on my last leg with this thing. Anyone have any ideas or
> > > > suggestions?????? Please help or i may put the stock cam back in.

Re: New Cam, Jeep will only run without TPS
 

if you were close to me i would give ya a hand

jeepinacreek wrote:

> I live in Albuquerque, NM. Why??
> philthy wrote:
> > are u in michigan by any chance???
> >
> > "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >
> > > I am a total loss as to how it would run without the Crankshaft
> > > Position Sensor. It should default into the safe mode, with no spark
> > > advance. Maybe you have your distributor installed in such a way so that
> > > it's Cam Position Sensor somehow takes over??????? What's the timing
> > > light show, initial and total?
> > > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > >
> > > jeepinacreek wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I recently put a new cam in my 1997 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L. I figured it
> > > > was a great mod with out totaly stroking the motor. After completing
> > > > the buildup and starting it for the first time, I thought great it
> > > > runs. Then I ran up and it starting backfiring at around 1800+ RPM.
> > > > This has been my battle for the last three months.
> > > >
> > > > A little about my Jeep;
> > > > Doug thorley header
> > > > bored out 62mm throttle
> > > > MSD ignition
> > > > New catalatic convertor, Flowmaster 50 exhaust Cold air intake 4in
> > > > Curry Enterpise lift 33in tires, 4:10 gears, lockers
> > > >
> > > > What I have done to fix this so far;
> > > > -Took it the dealer, they wouldn't touch it.
> > > > -I currently have timing chain retarded -5 degree's due to pinging, cut
> > > > down on backfiring.
> > > > -I also had it advanced +5 degree's, caused a lot more backfiring.
> > > > -I also ran the cam at TDC with no advance or timing. This is the
> > > > original way I built it.
> > > > -Changed TPS
> > > > -Changed spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and coil. Currently run MSD
> > > > ignition which I disconnected and the Jeep barely ran. Connected it
> > > > back up and seems to be the only thing keeping it running. So I know
> > > > the MSD works -changed O2 sensors -changed fuel pump and filters in
> > > > tank, gas cap to.
> > > > -Changed fuel injecters to 21LB injectors, stock is around 23.5LB -Put
> > > > an air/fuel ratio gauge on it.
> > > >
> > > > So my latest attempt to get this thing running right truely has me
> > > > scratching my head, I left the TPS wire connected disconnected, drove
> > > > it and it runs fine. No backfire at 1800+ RPM, it doesn't surge,
> > > > hesitate or ping or miss or run rich. It runs great, I can drive it on
> > > > the freeway now.
> > > >
> > > > I am on my last leg with this thing. Anyone have any ideas or
> > > > suggestions?????? Please help or i may put the stock cam back in.

Re: New Cam, Jeep will only run without TPS
 

if you were close to me i would give ya a hand

jeepinacreek wrote:

> I live in Albuquerque, NM. Why??
> philthy wrote:
> > are u in michigan by any chance???
> >
> > "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >
> > > I am a total loss as to how it would run without the Crankshaft
> > > Position Sensor. It should default into the safe mode, with no spark
> > > advance. Maybe you have your distributor installed in such a way so that
> > > it's Cam Position Sensor somehow takes over??????? What's the timing
> > > light show, initial and total?
> > > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > >
> > > jeepinacreek wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I recently put a new cam in my 1997 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L. I figured it
> > > > was a great mod with out totaly stroking the motor. After completing
> > > > the buildup and starting it for the first time, I thought great it
> > > > runs. Then I ran up and it starting backfiring at around 1800+ RPM.
> > > > This has been my battle for the last three months.
> > > >
> > > > A little about my Jeep;
> > > > Doug thorley header
> > > > bored out 62mm throttle
> > > > MSD ignition
> > > > New catalatic convertor, Flowmaster 50 exhaust Cold air intake 4in
> > > > Curry Enterpise lift 33in tires, 4:10 gears, lockers
> > > >
> > > > What I have done to fix this so far;
> > > > -Took it the dealer, they wouldn't touch it.
> > > > -I currently have timing chain retarded -5 degree's due to pinging, cut
> > > > down on backfiring.
> > > > -I also had it advanced +5 degree's, caused a lot more backfiring.
> > > > -I also ran the cam at TDC with no advance or timing. This is the
> > > > original way I built it.
> > > > -Changed TPS
> > > > -Changed spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and coil. Currently run MSD
> > > > ignition which I disconnected and the Jeep barely ran. Connected it
> > > > back up and seems to be the only thing keeping it running. So I know
> > > > the MSD works -changed O2 sensors -changed fuel pump and filters in
> > > > tank, gas cap to.
> > > > -Changed fuel injecters to 21LB injectors, stock is around 23.5LB -Put
> > > > an air/fuel ratio gauge on it.
> > > >
> > > > So my latest attempt to get this thing running right truely has me
> > > > scratching my head, I left the TPS wire connected disconnected, drove
> > > > it and it runs fine. No backfire at 1800+ RPM, it doesn't surge,
> > > > hesitate or ping or miss or run rich. It runs great, I can drive it on
> > > > the freeway now.
> > > >
> > > > I am on my last leg with this thing. Anyone have any ideas or
> > > > suggestions?????? Please help or i may put the stock cam back in.

Re: New Cam, Jeep will only run without TPS
 

you need to get the timming gears straight up on the marks before doing the
timing resync

DougW wrote:

> jeepinacreek wrote:
> > I tried you idea of reseting the PCM and turning the key and not
> > starting and turning the throttle body. Didn't work. This time the was
> > a lot of backfiring at very low RPM's and front firing at high RPMS?
> > Any suggestions?
>
> backfire indicates late ignition timing or excessive fuel.
> frontfire (odd term, assume you mean fire out the throttle body)
> indicates ignition on the intake stroke before the valve has closed
> or possibly a lean condition.
>
> The only things I can think of is your timing is way off or the plug
> wires are crossed... Timing could be the distributor or the chain.
>
> waitadarnsec.......
>
> Just a thought, but have you made sure all the injector wires got back
> on the correct injector? IIRC there are two of them that can be easily
> switched up. That would sure get the fuel delivered at the wrong time
> and cause lean/rich conditions.
>
> As for the timing issue.
> Kind of reminds me of this article, but your engine runs.
> http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/feb99/techtotech.htm
>
> --
> DougW