Handywired

These would be the ones I mounted on my '97 TJ this fall. 31x10.50's.

Up at elk camp this year, the conditions were tough for the second year in a
row. We hunt a roadless wilderness area at 6000-7500 ft. in Oregon and it
gets coooold, and snows. There's this one road that goes up and over the
mountain, that you use to access the trailheads. It gets pretty hairy since
there was also a big fire in this area 5 or 6 years ago and in some spots
there's nothing to stop you if you go off the road since the trees all died and
have fallen over now and it's steeper'n crap. You would just plunge. This is
not really a problem if you are even a half-assed driver because USUALLY, if
the road should happen to be that bad, it's where there IS timber to at least
catch you if it all goes south on you. Or, in the spots where the timber
burned, the road is icy or snowy but perfectly reasonable to drive on. Any old
idgit could do it. Or, furthermore, most hunters would not have any need to
go all the way up since 3 out of the 4 trailheads are accessible without
risking a permanent pucker in one's nether regions. Or worse.

However, for those sturdy, intrepid, brave and stupid hunters wishing to go in
on the 4th trailhead, for the simple reason that judging from the bootprints
nobody else is even hunting it, for those rare beings there exists a section
of road. A section of road that seems designed to kill someone. A section of
road that is a lawsuit waiting to happen. A section of road that, at it's
worse, tests the limits of driver and machine. And tires. A section we shall
call... Valhalla.

Imagine you come over this mountain. You are 45 minutes of crawling up the
snow and ice and muddy road from camp. it's had it's spots but nothing too
bad. It's a dirt road at best, minimally maintained by the Forest Service.
You come to the top. There's this like Official Regional Observation Tower up
there. Even though you are hours from anywhere, your cell phone has 3 bars.
You can see for 60-80 miles in 3 directions (4 from the top of the tower) and
it's all wild. There's elk all over down there, you just know it. So. You
come over that mountain and hit the other side, and it's like they let the
junior civil enginaeer take over. Suddenly the road seems designed to kill
you. Sharp corners tilt wrong. It is steep; if you go off the road in some
places, they MIGHT find your bleached bones in the spring. Maybe not. Depends
on if the coyotes or crows got into you, I suppose. There's places where you
can see other folks had trouble. They went off the road on this corner here
and had to get yarded out, they spun their wheels there trying to turn around,
in a rare wide spot, after chickening out. So all that happens THEN you hit
the real killer, a long straight stretch about 100 yards long with about a
2-foot shoulder, max, between the road and oblivion. It's steep beyond belief,
there's nothing to catch you, and here's the catch... the road slopes, subtly
in some spots and glaringly in others, TOWARDS the edge. How friggin' hard is
it to make a road right? Or fix a broken one? Sweet Jesus H. Christ, you get
about 40 yeards out there, and your rig starts to let go... just a little, just
enough to let you know who's (not) in charge here. Worst is still to come.
You can see it coming since you are crawling in 4-lo with 4.10's and 31's as
slow as you can go. You get to the worst part and it's not subtle now, the
abyss is sucking the *** end of your Jeep into hell. That slope wants your
***. You can try and pull the rig along with the front end but that also
makes you get sideways. The more sideways you get the more your apotions
narrow. Nose slanted uphill, *** end slanted down and the slowdown of time
and tunnel vision start. Fight or flight or sqeel like a pig and just give up,
punch it and see WTF happens anythign is better than this slow torture...

I did it both unchained (packed snow) and then chained up front (ice) and it
sucked each of the 4 times i did it. Going downhill was the worse. I kept
going up there because there were elk up there....

.....so, and I hope you enjoyed my story, this is a long-winded way of knocking
my MT/R's preformance on ice. They had almost no lateral control; if there was
low spot, my TJ went to it pretty much always, the back end especially.
Considerably worse than the BFG AT's I had on there last year. I knew knobby
tires were gonna be bad on ice but this was sort of stunning. In snow, they
were funny... slippery in general but they would reall "hook up" if I goosed it
and spun 'em a little. So I found myself using the front end of the Jeep to
sort of haul the back end around a lot. It was extreme, and that's coming from
someone who normally drives a pickup.

Next year I'll have chains for all 4 tires or different tires. I do like my
MT/R's for the things I bought them for: commuting to work, and general
wheelin' in western Oregon, which means sticky mud in the fall and winter and
spring. But do NOT buy them as snow/ice tires!!

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

-jeff

griffin

Good advice for someone such as myself living in a place with 7 mths of icy
snow. Then again, winter-driving my Jeep (for now) is not in my future. Oh
well ...I'm pretty sure I'm going with the BFG M/T's anyway. Glad your alive
tho ...for now ... *drumroll*

--
griffin
'85 Jeep CJ-7
'97 Toyota Corolla SD

> "Handywired" explained his near-death experience below
<snip>

griffin

Good advice for someone such as myself living in a place with 7 mths of icy
snow. Then again, winter-driving my Jeep (for now) is not in my future. Oh
well ...I'm pretty sure I'm going with the BFG M/T's anyway. Glad your alive
tho ...for now ... *drumroll*

--
griffin
'85 Jeep CJ-7
'97 Toyota Corolla SD

> "Handywired" explained his near-death experience below
<snip>

HarryS

WOW, that was a lot to say about nothing. the M/S on a tire should been
enough and perhaps more experience. Studs come to mind and not the ones
that are used for building a house.

HarryS


"Handywired" <handywired@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041106014225.23417.00000183@mb-m03.aol.com...
> These would be the ones I mounted on my '97 TJ this fall. 31x10.50's.
>
> Up at elk camp this year, the conditions were tough for the second year in
> a
> row. We hunt a roadless wilderness area at 6000-7500 ft. in Oregon and
> it
> gets coooold, and snows. There's this one road that goes up and over
> the
> mountain, that you use to access the trailheads. It gets pretty hairy
> since
> there was also a big fire in this area 5 or 6 years ago and in some spots
> there's nothing to stop you if you go off the road since the trees all
> died and
> have fallen over now and it's steeper'n crap. You would just plunge.
> This is
> not really a problem if you are even a half-assed driver because USUALLY,
> if
> the road should happen to be that bad, it's where there IS timber to at
> least
> catch you if it all goes south on you. Or, in the spots where the timber
> burned, the road is icy or snowy but perfectly reasonable to drive on.
> Any old
> idgit could do it. Or, furthermore, most hunters would not have any need
> to
> go all the way up since 3 out of the 4 trailheads are accessible without
> risking a permanent pucker in one's nether regions. Or worse.
>
> However, for those sturdy, intrepid, brave and stupid hunters wishing to
> go in
> on the 4th trailhead, for the simple reason that judging from the
> bootprints
> nobody else is even hunting it, for those rare beings there exists a
> section
> of road. A section of road that seems designed to kill someone. A
> section of
> road that is a lawsuit waiting to happen. A section of road that, at
> it's
> worse, tests the limits of driver and machine. And tires. A section we
> shall
> call... Valhalla.
>
> Imagine you come over this mountain. You are 45 minutes of crawling up
> the
> snow and ice and muddy road from camp. it's had it's spots but nothing
> too
> bad. It's a dirt road at best, minimally maintained by the Forest
> Service.
> You come to the top. There's this like Official Regional Observation
> Tower up
> there. Even though you are hours from anywhere, your cell phone has 3
> bars.
> You can see for 60-80 miles in 3 directions (4 from the top of the tower)
> and
> it's all wild. There's elk all over down there, you just know it. So.
> You
> come over that mountain and hit the other side, and it's like they let the
> junior civil enginaeer take over. Suddenly the road seems designed to
> kill
> you. Sharp corners tilt wrong. It is steep; if you go off the road in
> some
> places, they MIGHT find your bleached bones in the spring. Maybe not.
> Depends
> on if the coyotes or crows got into you, I suppose. There's places
> where you
> can see other folks had trouble. They went off the road on this corner
> here
> and had to get yarded out, they spun their wheels there trying to turn
> around,
> in a rare wide spot, after chickening out. So all that happens THEN you
> hit
> the real killer, a long straight stretch about 100 yards long with about a
> 2-foot shoulder, max, between the road and oblivion. It's steep beyond
> belief,
> there's nothing to catch you, and here's the catch... the road slopes,
> subtly
> in some spots and glaringly in others, TOWARDS the edge. How friggin'
> hard is
> it to make a road right? Or fix a broken one? Sweet Jesus H. Christ, you
> get
> about 40 yeards out there, and your rig starts to let go... just a little,
> just
> enough to let you know who's (not) in charge here. Worst is still to
> come.
> You can see it coming since you are crawling in 4-lo with 4.10's and 31's
> as
> slow as you can go. You get to the worst part and it's not subtle now,
> the
> abyss is sucking the *** end of your Jeep into hell. That slope wants
> your
> ***. You can try and pull the rig along with the front end but that also
> makes you get sideways. The more sideways you get the more your apotions
> narrow. Nose slanted uphill, *** end slanted down and the slowdown of
> time
> and tunnel vision start. Fight or flight or sqeel like a pig and just
> give up,
> punch it and see WTF happens anythign is better than this slow torture...
>
> I did it both unchained (packed snow) and then chained up front (ice) and
> it
> sucked each of the 4 times i did it. Going downhill was the worse. I
> kept
> going up there because there were elk up there....
>
> ....so, and I hope you enjoyed my story, this is a long-winded way of
> knocking
> my MT/R's preformance on ice. They had almost no lateral control; if
> there was
> low spot, my TJ went to it pretty much always, the back end especially.
> Considerably worse than the BFG AT's I had on there last year. I knew
> knobby
> tires were gonna be bad on ice but this was sort of stunning. In snow,
> they
> were funny... slippery in general but they would reall "hook up" if I
> goosed it
> and spun 'em a little. So I found myself using the front end of the Jeep
> to
> sort of haul the back end around a lot. It was extreme, and that's coming
> from
> someone who normally drives a pickup.
>
> Next year I'll have chains for all 4 tires or different tires. I do like
> my
> MT/R's for the things I bought them for: commuting to work, and general
> wheelin' in western Oregon, which means sticky mud in the fall and winter
> and
> spring. But do NOT buy them as snow/ice tires!!
>
> That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
>
> -jeff
>

HarryS

WOW, that was a lot to say about nothing. the M/S on a tire should been
enough and perhaps more experience. Studs come to mind and not the ones
that are used for building a house.

HarryS


"Handywired" <handywired@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041106014225.23417.00000183@mb-m03.aol.com...
> These would be the ones I mounted on my '97 TJ this fall. 31x10.50's.
>
> Up at elk camp this year, the conditions were tough for the second year in
> a
> row. We hunt a roadless wilderness area at 6000-7500 ft. in Oregon and
> it
> gets coooold, and snows. There's this one road that goes up and over
> the
> mountain, that you use to access the trailheads. It gets pretty hairy
> since
> there was also a big fire in this area 5 or 6 years ago and in some spots
> there's nothing to stop you if you go off the road since the trees all
> died and
> have fallen over now and it's steeper'n crap. You would just plunge.
> This is
> not really a problem if you are even a half-assed driver because USUALLY,
> if
> the road should happen to be that bad, it's where there IS timber to at
> least
> catch you if it all goes south on you. Or, in the spots where the timber
> burned, the road is icy or snowy but perfectly reasonable to drive on.
> Any old
> idgit could do it. Or, furthermore, most hunters would not have any need
> to
> go all the way up since 3 out of the 4 trailheads are accessible without
> risking a permanent pucker in one's nether regions. Or worse.
>
> However, for those sturdy, intrepid, brave and stupid hunters wishing to
> go in
> on the 4th trailhead, for the simple reason that judging from the
> bootprints
> nobody else is even hunting it, for those rare beings there exists a
> section
> of road. A section of road that seems designed to kill someone. A
> section of
> road that is a lawsuit waiting to happen. A section of road that, at
> it's
> worse, tests the limits of driver and machine. And tires. A section we
> shall
> call... Valhalla.
>
> Imagine you come over this mountain. You are 45 minutes of crawling up
> the
> snow and ice and muddy road from camp. it's had it's spots but nothing
> too
> bad. It's a dirt road at best, minimally maintained by the Forest
> Service.
> You come to the top. There's this like Official Regional Observation
> Tower up
> there. Even though you are hours from anywhere, your cell phone has 3
> bars.
> You can see for 60-80 miles in 3 directions (4 from the top of the tower)
> and
> it's all wild. There's elk all over down there, you just know it. So.
> You
> come over that mountain and hit the other side, and it's like they let the
> junior civil enginaeer take over. Suddenly the road seems designed to
> kill
> you. Sharp corners tilt wrong. It is steep; if you go off the road in
> some
> places, they MIGHT find your bleached bones in the spring. Maybe not.
> Depends
> on if the coyotes or crows got into you, I suppose. There's places
> where you
> can see other folks had trouble. They went off the road on this corner
> here
> and had to get yarded out, they spun their wheels there trying to turn
> around,
> in a rare wide spot, after chickening out. So all that happens THEN you
> hit
> the real killer, a long straight stretch about 100 yards long with about a
> 2-foot shoulder, max, between the road and oblivion. It's steep beyond
> belief,
> there's nothing to catch you, and here's the catch... the road slopes,
> subtly
> in some spots and glaringly in others, TOWARDS the edge. How friggin'
> hard is
> it to make a road right? Or fix a broken one? Sweet Jesus H. Christ, you
> get
> about 40 yeards out there, and your rig starts to let go... just a little,
> just
> enough to let you know who's (not) in charge here. Worst is still to
> come.
> You can see it coming since you are crawling in 4-lo with 4.10's and 31's
> as
> slow as you can go. You get to the worst part and it's not subtle now,
> the
> abyss is sucking the *** end of your Jeep into hell. That slope wants
> your
> ***. You can try and pull the rig along with the front end but that also
> makes you get sideways. The more sideways you get the more your apotions
> narrow. Nose slanted uphill, *** end slanted down and the slowdown of
> time
> and tunnel vision start. Fight or flight or sqeel like a pig and just
> give up,
> punch it and see WTF happens anythign is better than this slow torture...
>
> I did it both unchained (packed snow) and then chained up front (ice) and
> it
> sucked each of the 4 times i did it. Going downhill was the worse. I
> kept
> going up there because there were elk up there....
>
> ....so, and I hope you enjoyed my story, this is a long-winded way of
> knocking
> my MT/R's preformance on ice. They had almost no lateral control; if
> there was
> low spot, my TJ went to it pretty much always, the back end especially.
> Considerably worse than the BFG AT's I had on there last year. I knew
> knobby
> tires were gonna be bad on ice but this was sort of stunning. In snow,
> they
> were funny... slippery in general but they would reall "hook up" if I
> goosed it
> and spun 'em a little. So I found myself using the front end of the Jeep
> to
> sort of haul the back end around a lot. It was extreme, and that's coming
> from
> someone who normally drives a pickup.
>
> Next year I'll have chains for all 4 tires or different tires. I do like
> my
> MT/R's for the things I bought them for: commuting to work, and general
> wheelin' in western Oregon, which means sticky mud in the fall and winter
> and
> spring. But do NOT buy them as snow/ice tires!!
>
> That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
>
> -jeff
>

Mike Romain

Do you have a locker or limited slip on that rig?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Handywired wrote:
>
> These would be the ones I mounted on my '97 TJ this fall. 31x10.50's.
>
> Up at elk camp this year, the conditions were tough for the second year in a
> row. We hunt a roadless wilderness area at 6000-7500 ft. in Oregon and it
> gets coooold, and snows. There's this one road that goes up and over the
> mountain, that you use to access the trailheads. It gets pretty hairy since
> there was also a big fire in this area 5 or 6 years ago and in some spots
> there's nothing to stop you if you go off the road since the trees all died and
> have fallen over now and it's steeper'n crap. You would just plunge. This is
> not really a problem if you are even a half-assed driver because USUALLY, if
> the road should happen to be that bad, it's where there IS timber to at least
> catch you if it all goes south on you. Or, in the spots where the timber
> burned, the road is icy or snowy but perfectly reasonable to drive on. Any old
> idgit could do it. Or, furthermore, most hunters would not have any need to
> go all the way up since 3 out of the 4 trailheads are accessible without
> risking a permanent pucker in one's nether regions. Or worse.
>
> However, for those sturdy, intrepid, brave and stupid hunters wishing to go in
> on the 4th trailhead, for the simple reason that judging from the bootprints
> nobody else is even hunting it, for those rare beings there exists a section
> of road. A section of road that seems designed to kill someone. A section of
> road that is a lawsuit waiting to happen. A section of road that, at it's
> worse, tests the limits of driver and machine. And tires. A section we shall
> call... Valhalla.
>
> Imagine you come over this mountain. You are 45 minutes of crawling up the
> snow and ice and muddy road from camp. it's had it's spots but nothing too
> bad. It's a dirt road at best, minimally maintained by the Forest Service.
> You come to the top. There's this like Official Regional Observation Tower up
> there. Even though you are hours from anywhere, your cell phone has 3 bars.
> You can see for 60-80 miles in 3 directions (4 from the top of the tower) and
> it's all wild. There's elk all over down there, you just know it. So. You
> come over that mountain and hit the other side, and it's like they let the
> junior civil enginaeer take over. Suddenly the road seems designed to kill
> you. Sharp corners tilt wrong. It is steep; if you go off the road in some
> places, they MIGHT find your bleached bones in the spring. Maybe not. Depends
> on if the coyotes or crows got into you, I suppose. There's places where you
> can see other folks had trouble. They went off the road on this corner here
> and had to get yarded out, they spun their wheels there trying to turn around,
> in a rare wide spot, after chickening out. So all that happens THEN you hit
> the real killer, a long straight stretch about 100 yards long with about a
> 2-foot shoulder, max, between the road and oblivion. It's steep beyond belief,
> there's nothing to catch you, and here's the catch... the road slopes, subtly
> in some spots and glaringly in others, TOWARDS the edge. How friggin' hard is
> it to make a road right? Or fix a broken one? Sweet Jesus H. Christ, you get
> about 40 yeards out there, and your rig starts to let go... just a little, just
> enough to let you know who's (not) in charge here. Worst is still to come.
> You can see it coming since you are crawling in 4-lo with 4.10's and 31's as
> slow as you can go. You get to the worst part and it's not subtle now, the
> abyss is sucking the *** end of your Jeep into hell. That slope wants your
> ***. You can try and pull the rig along with the front end but that also
> makes you get sideways. The more sideways you get the more your apotions
> narrow. Nose slanted uphill, *** end slanted down and the slowdown of time
> and tunnel vision start. Fight or flight or sqeel like a pig and just give up,
> punch it and see WTF happens anythign is better than this slow torture...
>
> I did it both unchained (packed snow) and then chained up front (ice) and it
> sucked each of the 4 times i did it. Going downhill was the worse. I kept
> going up there because there were elk up there....
>
> ....so, and I hope you enjoyed my story, this is a long-winded way of knocking
> my MT/R's preformance on ice. They had almost no lateral control; if there was
> low spot, my TJ went to it pretty much always, the back end especially.
> Considerably worse than the BFG AT's I had on there last year. I knew knobby
> tires were gonna be bad on ice but this was sort of stunning. In snow, they
> were funny... slippery in general but they would reall "hook up" if I goosed it
> and spun 'em a little. So I found myself using the front end of the Jeep to
> sort of haul the back end around a lot. It was extreme, and that's coming from
> someone who normally drives a pickup.
>
> Next year I'll have chains for all 4 tires or different tires. I do like my
> MT/R's for the things I bought them for: commuting to work, and general
> wheelin' in western Oregon, which means sticky mud in the fall and winter and
> spring. But do NOT buy them as snow/ice tires!!
>
> That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
>
> -jeff

Mike Romain

Do you have a locker or limited slip on that rig?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Handywired wrote:
>
> These would be the ones I mounted on my '97 TJ this fall. 31x10.50's.
>
> Up at elk camp this year, the conditions were tough for the second year in a
> row. We hunt a roadless wilderness area at 6000-7500 ft. in Oregon and it
> gets coooold, and snows. There's this one road that goes up and over the
> mountain, that you use to access the trailheads. It gets pretty hairy since
> there was also a big fire in this area 5 or 6 years ago and in some spots
> there's nothing to stop you if you go off the road since the trees all died and
> have fallen over now and it's steeper'n crap. You would just plunge. This is
> not really a problem if you are even a half-assed driver because USUALLY, if
> the road should happen to be that bad, it's where there IS timber to at least
> catch you if it all goes south on you. Or, in the spots where the timber
> burned, the road is icy or snowy but perfectly reasonable to drive on. Any old
> idgit could do it. Or, furthermore, most hunters would not have any need to
> go all the way up since 3 out of the 4 trailheads are accessible without
> risking a permanent pucker in one's nether regions. Or worse.
>
> However, for those sturdy, intrepid, brave and stupid hunters wishing to go in
> on the 4th trailhead, for the simple reason that judging from the bootprints
> nobody else is even hunting it, for those rare beings there exists a section
> of road. A section of road that seems designed to kill someone. A section of
> road that is a lawsuit waiting to happen. A section of road that, at it's
> worse, tests the limits of driver and machine. And tires. A section we shall
> call... Valhalla.
>
> Imagine you come over this mountain. You are 45 minutes of crawling up the
> snow and ice and muddy road from camp. it's had it's spots but nothing too
> bad. It's a dirt road at best, minimally maintained by the Forest Service.
> You come to the top. There's this like Official Regional Observation Tower up
> there. Even though you are hours from anywhere, your cell phone has 3 bars.
> You can see for 60-80 miles in 3 directions (4 from the top of the tower) and
> it's all wild. There's elk all over down there, you just know it. So. You
> come over that mountain and hit the other side, and it's like they let the
> junior civil enginaeer take over. Suddenly the road seems designed to kill
> you. Sharp corners tilt wrong. It is steep; if you go off the road in some
> places, they MIGHT find your bleached bones in the spring. Maybe not. Depends
> on if the coyotes or crows got into you, I suppose. There's places where you
> can see other folks had trouble. They went off the road on this corner here
> and had to get yarded out, they spun their wheels there trying to turn around,
> in a rare wide spot, after chickening out. So all that happens THEN you hit
> the real killer, a long straight stretch about 100 yards long with about a
> 2-foot shoulder, max, between the road and oblivion. It's steep beyond belief,
> there's nothing to catch you, and here's the catch... the road slopes, subtly
> in some spots and glaringly in others, TOWARDS the edge. How friggin' hard is
> it to make a road right? Or fix a broken one? Sweet Jesus H. Christ, you get
> about 40 yeards out there, and your rig starts to let go... just a little, just
> enough to let you know who's (not) in charge here. Worst is still to come.
> You can see it coming since you are crawling in 4-lo with 4.10's and 31's as
> slow as you can go. You get to the worst part and it's not subtle now, the
> abyss is sucking the *** end of your Jeep into hell. That slope wants your
> ***. You can try and pull the rig along with the front end but that also
> makes you get sideways. The more sideways you get the more your apotions
> narrow. Nose slanted uphill, *** end slanted down and the slowdown of time
> and tunnel vision start. Fight or flight or sqeel like a pig and just give up,
> punch it and see WTF happens anythign is better than this slow torture...
>
> I did it both unchained (packed snow) and then chained up front (ice) and it
> sucked each of the 4 times i did it. Going downhill was the worse. I kept
> going up there because there were elk up there....
>
> ....so, and I hope you enjoyed my story, this is a long-winded way of knocking
> my MT/R's preformance on ice. They had almost no lateral control; if there was
> low spot, my TJ went to it pretty much always, the back end especially.
> Considerably worse than the BFG AT's I had on there last year. I knew knobby
> tires were gonna be bad on ice but this was sort of stunning. In snow, they
> were funny... slippery in general but they would reall "hook up" if I goosed it
> and spun 'em a little. So I found myself using the front end of the Jeep to
> sort of haul the back end around a lot. It was extreme, and that's coming from
> someone who normally drives a pickup.
>
> Next year I'll have chains for all 4 tires or different tires. I do like my
> MT/R's for the things I bought them for: commuting to work, and general
> wheelin' in western Oregon, which means sticky mud in the fall and winter and
> spring. But do NOT buy them as snow/ice tires!!
>
> That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
>
> -jeff

Tom T

Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<418CD964.87D926CF@sympatico.ca>...
> Do you have a locker or limited slip on that rig?
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> Handywired wrote:
> >
> > These would be the ones I mounted on my '97 TJ this fall. 31x10.50's.
> >
> > Up at elk camp this year, the conditions were tough for the second year in a
> > row. We hunt a roadless wilderness area at 6000-7500 ft. in Oregon and it
> > gets coooold, and snows. There's this one road that goes up and over the
> > mountain, that you use to access the trailheads. It gets pretty hairy since
> > there was also a big fire in this area 5 or 6 years ago and in some spots
> > there's nothing to stop you if you go off the road since the trees all died and
> > have fallen over now and it's steeper'n crap. You would just plunge. This is
> > not really a problem if you are even a half-assed driver because USUALLY, if
> > the road should happen to be that bad, it's where there IS timber to at least
> > catch you if it all goes south on you. Or, in the spots where the timber
> > burned, the road is icy or snowy but perfectly reasonable to drive on. Any old
> > idgit could do it. Or, furthermore, most hunters would not have any need to
> > go all the way up since 3 out of the 4 trailheads are accessible without
> > risking a permanent pucker in one's nether regions. Or worse.
> >
> > However, for those sturdy, intrepid, brave and stupid hunters wishing to go in
> > on the 4th trailhead, for the simple reason that judging from the bootprints
> > nobody else is even hunting it, for those rare beings there exists a section
> > of road. A section of road that seems designed to kill someone. A section of
> > road that is a lawsuit waiting to happen. A section of road that, at it's
> > worse, tests the limits of driver and machine. And tires. A section we shall
> > call... Valhalla.
> >
> > Imagine you come over this mountain. You are 45 minutes of crawling up the
> > snow and ice and muddy road from camp. it's had it's spots but nothing too
> > bad. It's a dirt road at best, minimally maintained by the Forest Service.
> > You come to the top. There's this like Official Regional Observation Tower up
> > there. Even though you are hours from anywhere, your cell phone has 3 bars.
> > You can see for 60-80 miles in 3 directions (4 from the top of the tower) and
> > it's all wild. There's elk all over down there, you just know it. So. You
> > come over that mountain and hit the other side, and it's like they let the
> > junior civil enginaeer take over. Suddenly the road seems designed to kill
> > you. Sharp corners tilt wrong. It is steep; if you go off the road in some
> > places, they MIGHT find your bleached bones in the spring. Maybe not. Depends
> > on if the coyotes or crows got into you, I suppose. There's places where you
> > can see other folks had trouble. They went off the road on this corner here
> > and had to get yarded out, they spun their wheels there trying to turn around,
> > in a rare wide spot, after chickening out. So all that happens THEN you hit
> > the real killer, a long straight stretch about 100 yards long with about a
> > 2-foot shoulder, max, between the road and oblivion. It's steep beyond belief,
> > there's nothing to catch you, and here's the catch... the road slopes, subtly
> > in some spots and glaringly in others, TOWARDS the edge. How friggin' hard is
> > it to make a road right? Or fix a broken one? Sweet Jesus H. Christ, you get
> > about 40 yeards out there, and your rig starts to let go... just a little, just
> > enough to let you know who's (not) in charge here. Worst is still to come.
> > You can see it coming since you are crawling in 4-lo with 4.10's and 31's as
> > slow as you can go. You get to the worst part and it's not subtle now, the
> > abyss is sucking the *** end of your Jeep into hell. That slope wants your
> > ***. You can try and pull the rig along with the front end but that also
> > makes you get sideways. The more sideways you get the more your apotions
> > narrow. Nose slanted uphill, *** end slanted down and the slowdown of time
> > and tunnel vision start. Fight or flight or sqeel like a pig and just give up,
> > punch it and see WTF happens anythign is better than this slow torture...
> >
> > I did it both unchained (packed snow) and then chained up front (ice) and it
> > sucked each of the 4 times i did it. Going downhill was the worse. I kept
> > going up there because there were elk up there....
> >
> > ....so, and I hope you enjoyed my story, this is a long-winded way of knocking
> > my MT/R's preformance on ice. They had almost no lateral control; if there was
> > low spot, my TJ went to it pretty much always, the back end especially.
> > Considerably worse than the BFG AT's I had on there last year. I knew knobby
> > tires were gonna be bad on ice but this was sort of stunning. In snow, they
> > were funny... slippery in general but they would reall "hook up" if I goosed it
> > and spun 'em a little. So I found myself using the front end of the Jeep to
> > sort of haul the back end around a lot. It was extreme, and that's coming from
> > someone who normally drives a pickup.
> >
> > Next year I'll have chains for all 4 tires or different tires. I do like my
> > MT/R's for the things I bought them for: commuting to work, and general
> > wheelin' in western Oregon, which means sticky mud in the fall and winter and
> > spring. But do NOT buy them as snow/ice tires!!
> >
> > That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
> >
> > -jeff


Jeff, This is a great story. I even had my wife read it, because
it brought back memories of a trip we took to Wyoming years ago. We
got cought
in a snow/ice/fog storm on top of alternate 14 (not in a Jeep) but
pullig
a 35ft. travel trailor with a pickup @#%$#@ I think both of our
stories
could make good movies...ha..ha.
Tom T.

Tom T

Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<418CD964.87D926CF@sympatico.ca>...
> Do you have a locker or limited slip on that rig?
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> Handywired wrote:
> >
> > These would be the ones I mounted on my '97 TJ this fall. 31x10.50's.
> >
> > Up at elk camp this year, the conditions were tough for the second year in a
> > row. We hunt a roadless wilderness area at 6000-7500 ft. in Oregon and it
> > gets coooold, and snows. There's this one road that goes up and over the
> > mountain, that you use to access the trailheads. It gets pretty hairy since
> > there was also a big fire in this area 5 or 6 years ago and in some spots
> > there's nothing to stop you if you go off the road since the trees all died and
> > have fallen over now and it's steeper'n crap. You would just plunge. This is
> > not really a problem if you are even a half-assed driver because USUALLY, if
> > the road should happen to be that bad, it's where there IS timber to at least
> > catch you if it all goes south on you. Or, in the spots where the timber
> > burned, the road is icy or snowy but perfectly reasonable to drive on. Any old
> > idgit could do it. Or, furthermore, most hunters would not have any need to
> > go all the way up since 3 out of the 4 trailheads are accessible without
> > risking a permanent pucker in one's nether regions. Or worse.
> >
> > However, for those sturdy, intrepid, brave and stupid hunters wishing to go in
> > on the 4th trailhead, for the simple reason that judging from the bootprints
> > nobody else is even hunting it, for those rare beings there exists a section
> > of road. A section of road that seems designed to kill someone. A section of
> > road that is a lawsuit waiting to happen. A section of road that, at it's
> > worse, tests the limits of driver and machine. And tires. A section we shall
> > call... Valhalla.
> >
> > Imagine you come over this mountain. You are 45 minutes of crawling up the
> > snow and ice and muddy road from camp. it's had it's spots but nothing too
> > bad. It's a dirt road at best, minimally maintained by the Forest Service.
> > You come to the top. There's this like Official Regional Observation Tower up
> > there. Even though you are hours from anywhere, your cell phone has 3 bars.
> > You can see for 60-80 miles in 3 directions (4 from the top of the tower) and
> > it's all wild. There's elk all over down there, you just know it. So. You
> > come over that mountain and hit the other side, and it's like they let the
> > junior civil enginaeer take over. Suddenly the road seems designed to kill
> > you. Sharp corners tilt wrong. It is steep; if you go off the road in some
> > places, they MIGHT find your bleached bones in the spring. Maybe not. Depends
> > on if the coyotes or crows got into you, I suppose. There's places where you
> > can see other folks had trouble. They went off the road on this corner here
> > and had to get yarded out, they spun their wheels there trying to turn around,
> > in a rare wide spot, after chickening out. So all that happens THEN you hit
> > the real killer, a long straight stretch about 100 yards long with about a
> > 2-foot shoulder, max, between the road and oblivion. It's steep beyond belief,
> > there's nothing to catch you, and here's the catch... the road slopes, subtly
> > in some spots and glaringly in others, TOWARDS the edge. How friggin' hard is
> > it to make a road right? Or fix a broken one? Sweet Jesus H. Christ, you get
> > about 40 yeards out there, and your rig starts to let go... just a little, just
> > enough to let you know who's (not) in charge here. Worst is still to come.
> > You can see it coming since you are crawling in 4-lo with 4.10's and 31's as
> > slow as you can go. You get to the worst part and it's not subtle now, the
> > abyss is sucking the *** end of your Jeep into hell. That slope wants your
> > ***. You can try and pull the rig along with the front end but that also
> > makes you get sideways. The more sideways you get the more your apotions
> > narrow. Nose slanted uphill, *** end slanted down and the slowdown of time
> > and tunnel vision start. Fight or flight or sqeel like a pig and just give up,
> > punch it and see WTF happens anythign is better than this slow torture...
> >
> > I did it both unchained (packed snow) and then chained up front (ice) and it
> > sucked each of the 4 times i did it. Going downhill was the worse. I kept
> > going up there because there were elk up there....
> >
> > ....so, and I hope you enjoyed my story, this is a long-winded way of knocking
> > my MT/R's preformance on ice. They had almost no lateral control; if there was
> > low spot, my TJ went to it pretty much always, the back end especially.
> > Considerably worse than the BFG AT's I had on there last year. I knew knobby
> > tires were gonna be bad on ice but this was sort of stunning. In snow, they
> > were funny... slippery in general but they would reall "hook up" if I goosed it
> > and spun 'em a little. So I found myself using the front end of the Jeep to
> > sort of haul the back end around a lot. It was extreme, and that's coming from
> > someone who normally drives a pickup.
> >
> > Next year I'll have chains for all 4 tires or different tires. I do like my
> > MT/R's for the things I bought them for: commuting to work, and general
> > wheelin' in western Oregon, which means sticky mud in the fall and winter and
> > spring. But do NOT buy them as snow/ice tires!!
> >
> > That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
> >
> > -jeff


Jeff, This is a great story. I even had my wife read it, because
it brought back memories of a trip we took to Wyoming years ago. We
got cought
in a snow/ice/fog storm on top of alternate 14 (not in a Jeep) but
pullig
a 35ft. travel trailor with a pickup @#%$#@ I think both of our
stories
could make good movies...ha..ha.
Tom T.

Kevin in San Diego

I read the first paragraph and fell asleep. Whats the readers digest
version?
KH


"Handywired" <handywired@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041106014225.23417.00000183@mb-m03.aol.com...
> These would be the ones I mounted on my '97 TJ this fall. 31x10.50's.
>
> Up at elk camp this year, the conditions were tough for the second year in
> a
> row. We hunt a roadless wilderness area at 6000-7500 ft. in Oregon and
> it
> gets coooold, and snows. There's this one road that goes up and over
> the
> mountain, that you use to access the trailheads. It gets pretty hairy
> since
> there was also a big fire in this area 5 or 6 years ago and in some spots
> there's nothing to stop you if you go off the road since the trees all
> died and
> have fallen over now and it's steeper'n crap. You would just plunge.
> This is
> not really a problem if you are even a half-assed driver because USUALLY,
> if
> the road should happen to be that bad, it's where there IS timber to at
> least
> catch you if it all goes south on you. Or, in the spots where the timber
> burned, the road is icy or snowy but perfectly reasonable to drive on.
> Any old
> idgit could do it. Or, furthermore, most hunters would not have any need
> to
> go all the way up since 3 out of the 4 trailheads are accessible without
> risking a permanent pucker in one's nether regions. Or worse.
>
> However, for those sturdy, intrepid, brave and stupid hunters wishing to
> go in
> on the 4th trailhead, for the simple reason that judging from the
> bootprints
> nobody else is even hunting it, for those rare beings there exists a
> section
> of road. A section of road that seems designed to kill someone. A
> section of
> road that is a lawsuit waiting to happen. A section of road that, at
> it's
> worse, tests the limits of driver and machine. And tires. A section we
> shall
> call... Valhalla.
>
> Imagine you come over this mountain. You are 45 minutes of crawling up
> the
> snow and ice and muddy road from camp. it's had it's spots but nothing
> too
> bad. It's a dirt road at best, minimally maintained by the Forest
> Service.
> You come to the top. There's this like Official Regional Observation
> Tower up
> there. Even though you are hours from anywhere, your cell phone has 3
> bars.
> You can see for 60-80 miles in 3 directions (4 from the top of the tower)
> and
> it's all wild. There's elk all over down there, you just know it. So.
> You
> come over that mountain and hit the other side, and it's like they let the
> junior civil enginaeer take over. Suddenly the road seems designed to
> kill
> you. Sharp corners tilt wrong. It is steep; if you go off the road in
> some
> places, they MIGHT find your bleached bones in the spring. Maybe not.
> Depends
> on if the coyotes or crows got into you, I suppose. There's places
> where you
> can see other folks had trouble. They went off the road on this corner
> here
> and had to get yarded out, they spun their wheels there trying to turn
> around,
> in a rare wide spot, after chickening out. So all that happens THEN you
> hit
> the real killer, a long straight stretch about 100 yards long with about a
> 2-foot shoulder, max, between the road and oblivion. It's steep beyond
> belief,
> there's nothing to catch you, and here's the catch... the road slopes,
> subtly
> in some spots and glaringly in others, TOWARDS the edge. How friggin'
> hard is
> it to make a road right? Or fix a broken one? Sweet Jesus H. Christ, you
> get
> about 40 yeards out there, and your rig starts to let go... just a little,
> just
> enough to let you know who's (not) in charge here. Worst is still to
> come.
> You can see it coming since you are crawling in 4-lo with 4.10's and 31's
> as
> slow as you can go. You get to the worst part and it's not subtle now,
> the
> abyss is sucking the *** end of your Jeep into hell. That slope wants
> your
> ***. You can try and pull the rig along with the front end but that also
> makes you get sideways. The more sideways you get the more your apotions
> narrow. Nose slanted uphill, *** end slanted down and the slowdown of
> time
> and tunnel vision start. Fight or flight or sqeel like a pig and just
> give up,
> punch it and see WTF happens anythign is better than this slow torture...
>
> I did it both unchained (packed snow) and then chained up front (ice) and
> it
> sucked each of the 4 times i did it. Going downhill was the worse. I
> kept
> going up there because there were elk up there....
>
> ....so, and I hope you enjoyed my story, this is a long-winded way of
> knocking
> my MT/R's preformance on ice. They had almost no lateral control; if
> there was
> low spot, my TJ went to it pretty much always, the back end especially.
> Considerably worse than the BFG AT's I had on there last year. I knew
> knobby
> tires were gonna be bad on ice but this was sort of stunning. In snow,
> they
> were funny... slippery in general but they would reall "hook up" if I
> goosed it
> and spun 'em a little. So I found myself using the front end of the Jeep
> to
> sort of haul the back end around a lot. It was extreme, and that's coming
> from
> someone who normally drives a pickup.
>
> Next year I'll have chains for all 4 tires or different tires. I do like
> my
> MT/R's for the things I bought them for: commuting to work, and general
> wheelin' in western Oregon, which means sticky mud in the fall and winter
> and
> spring. But do NOT buy them as snow/ice tires!!
>
> That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
>
> -jeff
>