Mike Romain

The attachment point is farther away from the center of the bearing
set. This puts the stress directly on the outer bearing. With a normal
attachment point, the tire is gradually moved out farther by the rim
shape.

The end is the same so yes having a modified backspace will cause faster
wear on the bearing no matter what, it is just less of a load than the
spacer gives.

Think about a teeter totter. You can put a smaller load on the end to
over balance it or a much larger load up close to the pivot point to
balance it the same or a massive load right on top of the pivot.

Once you get out past the center balance or pivot point for the bearing
set, the down angle radically increases stress. When the direct hit is
straight down on the bearing, it should last longer.

I think that makes sense.....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Dean wrote:
>
> I can understand how decreasing the backspacing would put additional stress on
> the bearings. Where I am confused is how does the bearing "know" that the
> additional stress is coming from a spacer vs. a wheel with less backspacing?
>
> Everybody says spacers are bad, OK, but why? Assuming we ignore any increased
> bearing load what makes spacers evil. I know my state doesn't accept them
> either. But, they didn't blink an eye at my truck, and like I said before it
> came from the factory with big spacers.
>
> Dean
>
> >It depends on the bearings I believe.
> >
> >Something like a CJ has cone bearings and adding a spacer stresses the
> >crap out of them.
> >
> >I have read that the sealed hub unit used on the Cherokee, YJ and TJ
> >uses flat bearings so the spacer has way less 'bad' effect.
> >
> >The cone acts like a lever for stress.
> >
> >I could be off base here but don't think so.
> >
> >Mike
> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> >Dean wrote:
> >>
> >> I've never understood the issue with spacers. I used to have a 1 ton dually
> >> truck that used big ol' honken spacers on the front wheels so that you could run
> >> the same rims front and back, and it came that way from the factory.
> >>
> >> If I have a rim with 5" of back spacing and add a 1" spacer I have the
> >> equavalent to a rim with 4" of back spacing. I don't see the how it matters if
> >> there is a spacer in there or not, back spacing is back spacing. Of course I am
> >> asuming that we are talking about properly installed quality parts. All bets
> >> are off if we are talking about junk installed by an idiot.
> >>
> >> Dean
> >> http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek/
> >>
> >> > Spacers are usually as expensive as a set of the correct sized
> >> >rims. They are not safe and would never be allowed on a Drag Strip.
> >> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> >> >mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >> >
> >> >CJ5 on 35's wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I am running wheel spacers on my cj5, work great, make sure they are
> >> >> torqued right,

Mike Romain

The attachment point is farther away from the center of the bearing
set. This puts the stress directly on the outer bearing. With a normal
attachment point, the tire is gradually moved out farther by the rim
shape.

The end is the same so yes having a modified backspace will cause faster
wear on the bearing no matter what, it is just less of a load than the
spacer gives.

Think about a teeter totter. You can put a smaller load on the end to
over balance it or a much larger load up close to the pivot point to
balance it the same or a massive load right on top of the pivot.

Once you get out past the center balance or pivot point for the bearing
set, the down angle radically increases stress. When the direct hit is
straight down on the bearing, it should last longer.

I think that makes sense.....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Dean wrote:
>
> I can understand how decreasing the backspacing would put additional stress on
> the bearings. Where I am confused is how does the bearing "know" that the
> additional stress is coming from a spacer vs. a wheel with less backspacing?
>
> Everybody says spacers are bad, OK, but why? Assuming we ignore any increased
> bearing load what makes spacers evil. I know my state doesn't accept them
> either. But, they didn't blink an eye at my truck, and like I said before it
> came from the factory with big spacers.
>
> Dean
>
> >It depends on the bearings I believe.
> >
> >Something like a CJ has cone bearings and adding a spacer stresses the
> >crap out of them.
> >
> >I have read that the sealed hub unit used on the Cherokee, YJ and TJ
> >uses flat bearings so the spacer has way less 'bad' effect.
> >
> >The cone acts like a lever for stress.
> >
> >I could be off base here but don't think so.
> >
> >Mike
> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> >Dean wrote:
> >>
> >> I've never understood the issue with spacers. I used to have a 1 ton dually
> >> truck that used big ol' honken spacers on the front wheels so that you could run
> >> the same rims front and back, and it came that way from the factory.
> >>
> >> If I have a rim with 5" of back spacing and add a 1" spacer I have the
> >> equavalent to a rim with 4" of back spacing. I don't see the how it matters if
> >> there is a spacer in there or not, back spacing is back spacing. Of course I am
> >> asuming that we are talking about properly installed quality parts. All bets
> >> are off if we are talking about junk installed by an idiot.
> >>
> >> Dean
> >> http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek/
> >>
> >> > Spacers are usually as expensive as a set of the correct sized
> >> >rims. They are not safe and would never be allowed on a Drag Strip.
> >> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> >> >mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >> >
> >> >CJ5 on 35's wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I am running wheel spacers on my cj5, work great, make sure they are
> >> >> torqued right,

DougW

Mike Romain did pass the time by typing:
> The attachment point is farther away from the center of the bearing
> set. This puts the stress directly on the outer bearing. With a normal
> attachment point, the tire is gradually moved out farther by the rim
> shape.
>
> The end is the same so yes having a modified backspace will cause faster
> wear on the bearing no matter what, it is just less of a load than the
> spacer gives.
>
> Think about a teeter totter. You can put a smaller load on the end to
> over balance it or a much larger load up close to the pivot point to
> balance it the same or a massive load right on top of the pivot.
>
> Once you get out past the center balance or pivot point for the bearing
> set, the down angle radically increases stress. When the direct hit is
> straight down on the bearing, it should last longer.
>
> I think that makes sense.....

It does.

Think of it as two different forces at the hub bearing
a) shear
b) torque

Example:
Take a toothpick and hold it about mid-point like a
bearing would hold the axle.
_______
)
<=================>
_______)

Now press with your fingernail right next to your fingers.
_______
)
<=================>
_______)^
Takes a lot of effort to shear that toothpick because all
the force is shear.
_______
)
<=================>
_______) ^

Now move your fingernail out toward the unsupported end and do
the same thing. The shear force in both examples is the same
but second example adds torsion force. The torque force plus
the shear force is what will snap the toothpick.

The math is out there for folks that want to know.

Anyhoo, bearings are designed to resist gobs of shear, not torque
and that's why spacers are bad ju-ju.

Merry Christmas!

--
DougW

DougW

Mike Romain did pass the time by typing:
> The attachment point is farther away from the center of the bearing
> set. This puts the stress directly on the outer bearing. With a normal
> attachment point, the tire is gradually moved out farther by the rim
> shape.
>
> The end is the same so yes having a modified backspace will cause faster
> wear on the bearing no matter what, it is just less of a load than the
> spacer gives.
>
> Think about a teeter totter. You can put a smaller load on the end to
> over balance it or a much larger load up close to the pivot point to
> balance it the same or a massive load right on top of the pivot.
>
> Once you get out past the center balance or pivot point for the bearing
> set, the down angle radically increases stress. When the direct hit is
> straight down on the bearing, it should last longer.
>
> I think that makes sense.....

It does.

Think of it as two different forces at the hub bearing
a) shear
b) torque

Example:
Take a toothpick and hold it about mid-point like a
bearing would hold the axle.
_______
)
<=================>
_______)

Now press with your fingernail right next to your fingers.
_______
)
<=================>
_______)^
Takes a lot of effort to shear that toothpick because all
the force is shear.
_______
)
<=================>
_______) ^

Now move your fingernail out toward the unsupported end and do
the same thing. The shear force in both examples is the same
but second example adds torsion force. The torque force plus
the shear force is what will snap the toothpick.

The math is out there for folks that want to know.

Anyhoo, bearings are designed to resist gobs of shear, not torque
and that's why spacers are bad ju-ju.

Merry Christmas!

--
DougW

DougW

Mike Romain did pass the time by typing:
> The attachment point is farther away from the center of the bearing
> set. This puts the stress directly on the outer bearing. With a normal
> attachment point, the tire is gradually moved out farther by the rim
> shape.
>
> The end is the same so yes having a modified backspace will cause faster
> wear on the bearing no matter what, it is just less of a load than the
> spacer gives.
>
> Think about a teeter totter. You can put a smaller load on the end to
> over balance it or a much larger load up close to the pivot point to
> balance it the same or a massive load right on top of the pivot.
>
> Once you get out past the center balance or pivot point for the bearing
> set, the down angle radically increases stress. When the direct hit is
> straight down on the bearing, it should last longer.
>
> I think that makes sense.....

It does.

Think of it as two different forces at the hub bearing
a) shear
b) torque

Example:
Take a toothpick and hold it about mid-point like a
bearing would hold the axle.
_______
)
<=================>
_______)

Now press with your fingernail right next to your fingers.
_______
)
<=================>
_______)^
Takes a lot of effort to shear that toothpick because all
the force is shear.
_______
)
<=================>
_______) ^

Now move your fingernail out toward the unsupported end and do
the same thing. The shear force in both examples is the same
but second example adds torsion force. The torque force plus
the shear force is what will snap the toothpick.

The math is out there for folks that want to know.

Anyhoo, bearings are designed to resist gobs of shear, not torque
and that's why spacers are bad ju-ju.

Merry Christmas!

--
DougW

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Comparing a TJ's hubs with a toothpick, good analogy.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

DougW wrote:
>
> It does.
>
> Think of it as two different forces at the hub bearing
> a) shear
> b) torque
>
> Example:
> Take a toothpick and hold it about mid-point like a
> bearing would hold the axle.
> _______
> )
> <=================>
> _______)
>
> Now press with your fingernail right next to your fingers.
> _______
> )
> <=================>
> _______)^
> Takes a lot of effort to shear that toothpick because all
> the force is shear.
> _______
> )
> <=================>
> _______) ^
>
> Now move your fingernail out toward the unsupported end and do
> the same thing. The shear force in both examples is the same
> but second example adds torsion force. The torque force plus
> the shear force is what will snap the toothpick.
>
> The math is out there for folks that want to know.
>
> Anyhoo, bearings are designed to resist gobs of shear, not torque
> and that's why spacers are bad ju-ju.
>
> Merry Christmas!
>
> --
> DougW

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Comparing a TJ's hubs with a toothpick, good analogy.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

DougW wrote:
>
> It does.
>
> Think of it as two different forces at the hub bearing
> a) shear
> b) torque
>
> Example:
> Take a toothpick and hold it about mid-point like a
> bearing would hold the axle.
> _______
> )
> <=================>
> _______)
>
> Now press with your fingernail right next to your fingers.
> _______
> )
> <=================>
> _______)^
> Takes a lot of effort to shear that toothpick because all
> the force is shear.
> _______
> )
> <=================>
> _______) ^
>
> Now move your fingernail out toward the unsupported end and do
> the same thing. The shear force in both examples is the same
> but second example adds torsion force. The torque force plus
> the shear force is what will snap the toothpick.
>
> The math is out there for folks that want to know.
>
> Anyhoo, bearings are designed to resist gobs of shear, not torque
> and that's why spacers are bad ju-ju.
>
> Merry Christmas!
>
> --
> DougW

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Comparing a TJ's hubs with a toothpick, good analogy.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

DougW wrote:
>
> It does.
>
> Think of it as two different forces at the hub bearing
> a) shear
> b) torque
>
> Example:
> Take a toothpick and hold it about mid-point like a
> bearing would hold the axle.
> _______
> )
> <=================>
> _______)
>
> Now press with your fingernail right next to your fingers.
> _______
> )
> <=================>
> _______)^
> Takes a lot of effort to shear that toothpick because all
> the force is shear.
> _______
> )
> <=================>
> _______) ^
>
> Now move your fingernail out toward the unsupported end and do
> the same thing. The shear force in both examples is the same
> but second example adds torsion force. The torque force plus
> the shear force is what will snap the toothpick.
>
> The math is out there for folks that want to know.
>
> Anyhoo, bearings are designed to resist gobs of shear, not torque
> and that's why spacers are bad ju-ju.
>
> Merry Christmas!
>
> --
> DougW

Mike Romain

add the reduced broth.
Finally, put in the root vegetables and simmer for 15 minutes.
Allow to cool slightly.
Place the pie pan in 375 degree oven for a few minutes so bottom crust is not soggy,
reduce oven to 325.
Fill the pie with stew, place top crust and with a fork, seal the crusts together
then poke holes in top.
Return to oven and bake for 30 minutes, or until pie crust is golden brown.



Sudden Infant Death Soup

SIDS: delicious in winter, comparable to old fashioned Beef and Vegetable Soup.
Its free, you can sell the crib, baby clothes, toys, stroller... and so easy to
procure if such a lucky find is at hand (just pick him up from the crib and
he?s good to go)!

SIDS victim, cleaned
½ cup cooking oil
Carrots
onions
broccoli
whole cabbage
fresh green beans
potato
turnip
celery
tomato
½ stick butter
1 cup cooked pasta (macaroni, shells, etc.)

Remove as much meat as possible, cube, and brown in hot oil.
Add a little water, season, then add the carcass.
Simmer for half an hour keeping the stock thick.
Remove the carc

Mike Romain

add the reduced broth.
Finally, put in the root vegetables and simmer for 15 minutes.
Allow to cool slightly.
Place the pie pan in 375 degree oven for a few minutes so bottom crust is not soggy,
reduce oven to 325.
Fill the pie with stew, place top crust and with a fork, seal the crusts together
then poke holes in top.
Return to oven and bake for 30 minutes, or until pie crust is golden brown.



Sudden Infant Death Soup

SIDS: delicious in winter, comparable to old fashioned Beef and Vegetable Soup.
Its free, you can sell the crib, baby clothes, toys, stroller... and so easy to
procure if such a lucky find is at hand (just pick him up from the crib and
he?s good to go)!

SIDS victim, cleaned
½ cup cooking oil
Carrots
onions
broccoli
whole cabbage
fresh green beans
potato
turnip
celery
tomato
½ stick butter
1 cup cooked pasta (macaroni, shells, etc.)

Remove as much meat as possible, cube, and brown in hot oil.
Add a little water, season, then add the carcass.
Simmer for half an hour keeping the stock thick.
Remove the carc