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-   -   Mike Romain Still thinking of heading north into Queerbec? (https://www.jeepscanada.com/jeep-mailing-list-32/mike-romain-still-thinking-heading-north-into-queerbec-29452/)

Mike Romain 07-04-2005 12:19 PM

Re: Mike Romain Still thinking of heading north into Queerbec?
 
I still haven't sorted out what club(s) were involved, it seems like a
couple with some non Jeep trailer queens as well.

That area is so hot right now with land owners and stewards vs the off
road crowd I would rather not post names in public anyway.

We got swarmed by a bunch of drunks that came to the lake we had 9 folks
from this newsgroup camped at a couple years ago. They came from armed
bear camps and they went ballistic on us when they found out we all met
through the internet and as a group come into 'their' woods.

Apparently one of the local clubs was posting GPS maps and camp location
info publicly and vandalism has gone way up with a couple recent
burnings of camps. I know one we have permission to use had the insides
trashed and the wood stove tossed out through the window a few years
back. It is getting bad in there..... :-(

Way too easy access and these assholes just opened up a tight ATV trail
so monster Jeeps and trucks can get through. There are over 20 camps on
this one trail.

The locals even dynamited a place on this trail into a ravine so only
small vehicles could bypass it. 31x10.5" tires on a YJ had to ride up
trees to fit.

Photos from that run are here:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292076845

If you are not a member of Sony's site, I can email an invite to view
the album. They are a free place to store photos and 'used' to be open
to the public.

My wife and I really want to just canoe up to James Bay again. We did
that a few years back, paddled from Cochrane Ontario up to Moosenee with
our at the time 16 year old son and nephew. It needs 10 days to 2 weeks
to not be in a rush for that run. That was a trip and a half but isn't
feasible in my near future. The doctors are still trying to figure out
if they can re-attach my shoulder blade to my back after a nasty car
accident I was a passenger in a couple years back. The latest MRI
photos show some muscles shredded bad.

Mike


FrankW wrote:
>
> Holy Jeepers!
> I know in some areas, St Zenon for example is a bad area for theft.
> I didn't hear about other areas though.
> As for the Bancroft area
> What area club are you refering to?
>

<snip>

Mike Romain 07-04-2005 12:19 PM

Re: Mike Romain Still thinking of heading north into Queerbec?
 
I still haven't sorted out what club(s) were involved, it seems like a
couple with some non Jeep trailer queens as well.

That area is so hot right now with land owners and stewards vs the off
road crowd I would rather not post names in public anyway.

We got swarmed by a bunch of drunks that came to the lake we had 9 folks
from this newsgroup camped at a couple years ago. They came from armed
bear camps and they went ballistic on us when they found out we all met
through the internet and as a group come into 'their' woods.

Apparently one of the local clubs was posting GPS maps and camp location
info publicly and vandalism has gone way up with a couple recent
burnings of camps. I know one we have permission to use had the insides
trashed and the wood stove tossed out through the window a few years
back. It is getting bad in there..... :-(

Way too easy access and these assholes just opened up a tight ATV trail
so monster Jeeps and trucks can get through. There are over 20 camps on
this one trail.

The locals even dynamited a place on this trail into a ravine so only
small vehicles could bypass it. 31x10.5" tires on a YJ had to ride up
trees to fit.

Photos from that run are here:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292076845

If you are not a member of Sony's site, I can email an invite to view
the album. They are a free place to store photos and 'used' to be open
to the public.

My wife and I really want to just canoe up to James Bay again. We did
that a few years back, paddled from Cochrane Ontario up to Moosenee with
our at the time 16 year old son and nephew. It needs 10 days to 2 weeks
to not be in a rush for that run. That was a trip and a half but isn't
feasible in my near future. The doctors are still trying to figure out
if they can re-attach my shoulder blade to my back after a nasty car
accident I was a passenger in a couple years back. The latest MRI
photos show some muscles shredded bad.

Mike


FrankW wrote:
>
> Holy Jeepers!
> I know in some areas, St Zenon for example is a bad area for theft.
> I didn't hear about other areas though.
> As for the Bancroft area
> What area club are you refering to?
>

<snip>

Mike Romain 07-04-2005 12:19 PM

Re: Mike Romain Still thinking of heading north into Queerbec?
 
I still haven't sorted out what club(s) were involved, it seems like a
couple with some non Jeep trailer queens as well.

That area is so hot right now with land owners and stewards vs the off
road crowd I would rather not post names in public anyway.

We got swarmed by a bunch of drunks that came to the lake we had 9 folks
from this newsgroup camped at a couple years ago. They came from armed
bear camps and they went ballistic on us when they found out we all met
through the internet and as a group come into 'their' woods.

Apparently one of the local clubs was posting GPS maps and camp location
info publicly and vandalism has gone way up with a couple recent
burnings of camps. I know one we have permission to use had the insides
trashed and the wood stove tossed out through the window a few years
back. It is getting bad in there..... :-(

Way too easy access and these assholes just opened up a tight ATV trail
so monster Jeeps and trucks can get through. There are over 20 camps on
this one trail.

The locals even dynamited a place on this trail into a ravine so only
small vehicles could bypass it. 31x10.5" tires on a YJ had to ride up
trees to fit.

Photos from that run are here:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292076845

If you are not a member of Sony's site, I can email an invite to view
the album. They are a free place to store photos and 'used' to be open
to the public.

My wife and I really want to just canoe up to James Bay again. We did
that a few years back, paddled from Cochrane Ontario up to Moosenee with
our at the time 16 year old son and nephew. It needs 10 days to 2 weeks
to not be in a rush for that run. That was a trip and a half but isn't
feasible in my near future. The doctors are still trying to figure out
if they can re-attach my shoulder blade to my back after a nasty car
accident I was a passenger in a couple years back. The latest MRI
photos show some muscles shredded bad.

Mike


FrankW wrote:
>
> Holy Jeepers!
> I know in some areas, St Zenon for example is a bad area for theft.
> I didn't hear about other areas though.
> As for the Bancroft area
> What area club are you refering to?
>

<snip>

FrankW 07-04-2005 12:44 PM

Re: Mike Romain Still thinking of heading north into Queerbec?
 
Unless your on private land. I don't know what these bear hunters are on
about. Bear hunting is not in season. About the only thing that may be
in season right now is Wolf and Coyote. I myself are a hunter.
About the only thing I'd be concerned about is Guerrilla Pot growers.
It is getting out of hand and is forcing closures for the local areas
around here. And also the burned cars/vans etc
Can you send me an invite for the pics
Thanks in advance
Remove MXZ to reply
Cheers
Frank

Mike Romain wrote:

> I still haven't sorted out what club(s) were involved, it seems like a
> couple with some non Jeep trailer queens as well.
>
> That area is so hot right now with land owners and stewards vs the off
> road crowd I would rather not post names in public anyway.
>
> We got swarmed by a bunch of drunks that came to the lake we had 9 folks
> from this newsgroup camped at a couple years ago. They came from armed
> bear camps and they went ballistic on us when they found out we all met
> through the internet and as a group come into 'their' woods.
>
> Apparently one of the local clubs was posting GPS maps and camp location
> info publicly and vandalism has gone way up with a couple recent
> burnings of camps. I know one we have permission to use had the insides
> trashed and the wood stove tossed out through the window a few years
> back. It is getting bad in there..... :-(
>
> Way too easy access and these assholes just opened up a tight ATV trail
> so monster Jeeps and trucks can get through. There are over 20 camps on
> this one trail.
>
> The locals even dynamited a place on this trail into a ravine so only
> small vehicles could bypass it. 31x10.5" tires on a YJ had to ride up
> trees to fit.
>
> Photos from that run are here:
> http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292076845
>
> If you are not a member of Sony's site, I can email an invite to view
> the album. They are a free place to store photos and 'used' to be open
> to the public.
>
> My wife and I really want to just canoe up to James Bay again. We did
> that a few years back, paddled from Cochrane Ontario up to Moosenee with
> our at the time 16 year old son and nephew. It needs 10 days to 2 weeks
> to not be in a rush for that run. That was a trip and a half but isn't
> feasible in my near future. The doctors are still trying to figure out
> if they can re-attach my shoulder blade to my back after a nasty car
> accident I was a passenger in a couple years back. The latest MRI
> photos show some muscles shredded bad.
>
> Mike
>
>
> FrankW wrote:
>
>>Holy Jeepers!
>>I know in some areas, St Zenon for example is a bad area for theft.
>>I didn't hear about other areas though.
>>As for the Bancroft area
>>What area club are you refering to?
>>

>
> <snip>



FrankW 07-04-2005 12:44 PM

Re: Mike Romain Still thinking of heading north into Queerbec?
 
Unless your on private land. I don't know what these bear hunters are on
about. Bear hunting is not in season. About the only thing that may be
in season right now is Wolf and Coyote. I myself are a hunter.
About the only thing I'd be concerned about is Guerrilla Pot growers.
It is getting out of hand and is forcing closures for the local areas
around here. And also the burned cars/vans etc
Can you send me an invite for the pics
Thanks in advance
Remove MXZ to reply
Cheers
Frank

Mike Romain wrote:

> I still haven't sorted out what club(s) were involved, it seems like a
> couple with some non Jeep trailer queens as well.
>
> That area is so hot right now with land owners and stewards vs the off
> road crowd I would rather not post names in public anyway.
>
> We got swarmed by a bunch of drunks that came to the lake we had 9 folks
> from this newsgroup camped at a couple years ago. They came from armed
> bear camps and they went ballistic on us when they found out we all met
> through the internet and as a group come into 'their' woods.
>
> Apparently one of the local clubs was posting GPS maps and camp location
> info publicly and vandalism has gone way up with a couple recent
> burnings of camps. I know one we have permission to use had the insides
> trashed and the wood stove tossed out through the window a few years
> back. It is getting bad in there..... :-(
>
> Way too easy access and these assholes just opened up a tight ATV trail
> so monster Jeeps and trucks can get through. There are over 20 camps on
> this one trail.
>
> The locals even dynamited a place on this trail into a ravine so only
> small vehicles could bypass it. 31x10.5" tires on a YJ had to ride up
> trees to fit.
>
> Photos from that run are here:
> http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292076845
>
> If you are not a member of Sony's site, I can email an invite to view
> the album. They are a free place to store photos and 'used' to be open
> to the public.
>
> My wife and I really want to just canoe up to James Bay again. We did
> that a few years back, paddled from Cochrane Ontario up to Moosenee with
> our at the time 16 year old son and nephew. It needs 10 days to 2 weeks
> to not be in a rush for that run. That was a trip and a half but isn't
> feasible in my near future. The doctors are still trying to figure out
> if they can re-attach my shoulder blade to my back after a nasty car
> accident I was a passenger in a couple years back. The latest MRI
> photos show some muscles shredded bad.
>
> Mike
>
>
> FrankW wrote:
>
>>Holy Jeepers!
>>I know in some areas, St Zenon for example is a bad area for theft.
>>I didn't hear about other areas though.
>>As for the Bancroft area
>>What area club are you refering to?
>>

>
> <snip>



FrankW 07-04-2005 12:44 PM

Re: Mike Romain Still thinking of heading north into Queerbec?
 
Unless your on private land. I don't know what these bear hunters are on
about. Bear hunting is not in season. About the only thing that may be
in season right now is Wolf and Coyote. I myself are a hunter.
About the only thing I'd be concerned about is Guerrilla Pot growers.
It is getting out of hand and is forcing closures for the local areas
around here. And also the burned cars/vans etc
Can you send me an invite for the pics
Thanks in advance
Remove MXZ to reply
Cheers
Frank

Mike Romain wrote:

> I still haven't sorted out what club(s) were involved, it seems like a
> couple with some non Jeep trailer queens as well.
>
> That area is so hot right now with land owners and stewards vs the off
> road crowd I would rather not post names in public anyway.
>
> We got swarmed by a bunch of drunks that came to the lake we had 9 folks
> from this newsgroup camped at a couple years ago. They came from armed
> bear camps and they went ballistic on us when they found out we all met
> through the internet and as a group come into 'their' woods.
>
> Apparently one of the local clubs was posting GPS maps and camp location
> info publicly and vandalism has gone way up with a couple recent
> burnings of camps. I know one we have permission to use had the insides
> trashed and the wood stove tossed out through the window a few years
> back. It is getting bad in there..... :-(
>
> Way too easy access and these assholes just opened up a tight ATV trail
> so monster Jeeps and trucks can get through. There are over 20 camps on
> this one trail.
>
> The locals even dynamited a place on this trail into a ravine so only
> small vehicles could bypass it. 31x10.5" tires on a YJ had to ride up
> trees to fit.
>
> Photos from that run are here:
> http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292076845
>
> If you are not a member of Sony's site, I can email an invite to view
> the album. They are a free place to store photos and 'used' to be open
> to the public.
>
> My wife and I really want to just canoe up to James Bay again. We did
> that a few years back, paddled from Cochrane Ontario up to Moosenee with
> our at the time 16 year old son and nephew. It needs 10 days to 2 weeks
> to not be in a rush for that run. That was a trip and a half but isn't
> feasible in my near future. The doctors are still trying to figure out
> if they can re-attach my shoulder blade to my back after a nasty car
> accident I was a passenger in a couple years back. The latest MRI
> photos show some muscles shredded bad.
>
> Mike
>
>
> FrankW wrote:
>
>>Holy Jeepers!
>>I know in some areas, St Zenon for example is a bad area for theft.
>>I didn't hear about other areas though.
>>As for the Bancroft area
>>What area club are you refering to?
>>

>
> <snip>



FrankW 07-04-2005 12:44 PM

Re: Mike Romain Still thinking of heading north into Queerbec?
 
Unless your on private land. I don't know what these bear hunters are on
about. Bear hunting is not in season. About the only thing that may be
in season right now is Wolf and Coyote. I myself are a hunter.
About the only thing I'd be concerned about is Guerrilla Pot growers.
It is getting out of hand and is forcing closures for the local areas
around here. And also the burned cars/vans etc
Can you send me an invite for the pics
Thanks in advance
Remove MXZ to reply
Cheers
Frank

Mike Romain wrote:

> I still haven't sorted out what club(s) were involved, it seems like a
> couple with some non Jeep trailer queens as well.
>
> That area is so hot right now with land owners and stewards vs the off
> road crowd I would rather not post names in public anyway.
>
> We got swarmed by a bunch of drunks that came to the lake we had 9 folks
> from this newsgroup camped at a couple years ago. They came from armed
> bear camps and they went ballistic on us when they found out we all met
> through the internet and as a group come into 'their' woods.
>
> Apparently one of the local clubs was posting GPS maps and camp location
> info publicly and vandalism has gone way up with a couple recent
> burnings of camps. I know one we have permission to use had the insides
> trashed and the wood stove tossed out through the window a few years
> back. It is getting bad in there..... :-(
>
> Way too easy access and these assholes just opened up a tight ATV trail
> so monster Jeeps and trucks can get through. There are over 20 camps on
> this one trail.
>
> The locals even dynamited a place on this trail into a ravine so only
> small vehicles could bypass it. 31x10.5" tires on a YJ had to ride up
> trees to fit.
>
> Photos from that run are here:
> http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292076845
>
> If you are not a member of Sony's site, I can email an invite to view
> the album. They are a free place to store photos and 'used' to be open
> to the public.
>
> My wife and I really want to just canoe up to James Bay again. We did
> that a few years back, paddled from Cochrane Ontario up to Moosenee with
> our at the time 16 year old son and nephew. It needs 10 days to 2 weeks
> to not be in a rush for that run. That was a trip and a half but isn't
> feasible in my near future. The doctors are still trying to figure out
> if they can re-attach my shoulder blade to my back after a nasty car
> accident I was a passenger in a couple years back. The latest MRI
> photos show some muscles shredded bad.
>
> Mike
>
>
> FrankW wrote:
>
>>Holy Jeepers!
>>I know in some areas, St Zenon for example is a bad area for theft.
>>I didn't hear about other areas though.
>>As for the Bancroft area
>>What area club are you refering to?
>>

>
> <snip>



Mike Romain 07-04-2005 03:27 PM

Re: Mike Romain Still thinking of heading north into Queerbec?
 
That was our fall/end of summer run and bear was opening as we were
leaving in September so the hunters were all in getting camps ready.

I will send you a few invites to the albums, I have to send each one
individually.

Mike

FrankW wrote:
>
> Unless your on private land. I don't know what these bear hunters are on
> about. Bear hunting is not in season. About the only thing that may be
> in season right now is Wolf and Coyote. I myself are a hunter.
> About the only thing I'd be concerned about is Guerrilla Pot growers.
> It is getting out of hand and is forcing closures for the local areas
> around here. And also the burned cars/vans etc
> Can you send me an invite for the pics
> Thanks in advance
> Remove MXZ to reply
> Cheers
> Frank
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
>
> > I still haven't sorted out what club(s) were involved, it seems like a
> > couple with some non Jeep trailer queens as well.
> >
> > That area is so hot right now with land owners and stewards vs the off
> > road crowd I would rather not post names in public anyway.
> >
> > We got swarmed by a bunch of drunks that came to the lake we had 9 folks
> > from this newsgroup camped at a couple years ago. They came from armed
> > bear camps and they went ballistic on us when they found out we all met
> > through the internet and as a group come into 'their' woods.
> >
> > Apparently one of the local clubs was posting GPS maps and camp location
> > info publicly and vandalism has gone way up with a couple recent
> > burnings of camps. I know one we have permission to use had the insides
> > trashed and the wood stove tossed out through the window a few years
> > back. It is getting bad in there..... :-(
> >
> > Way too easy access and these assholes just opened up a tight ATV trail
> > so monster Jeeps and trucks can get through. There are over 20 camps on
> > this one trail.
> >
> > The locals even dynamited a place on this trail into a ravine so only
> > small vehicles could bypass it. 31x10.5" tires on a YJ had to ride up
> > trees to fit.
> >
> > Photos from that run are here:
> > http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292076845
> >
> > If you are not a member of Sony's site, I can email an invite to view
> > the album. They are a free place to store photos and 'used' to be open
> > to the public.
> >
> > My wife and I really want to just canoe up to James Bay again. We did
> > that a few years back, paddled from Cochrane Ontario up to Moosenee with
> > our at the time 16 year old son and nephew. It needs 10 days to 2 weeks
> > to not be in a rush for that run. That was a trip and a half but isn't
> > feasible in my near future. The doctors are still trying to figure out
> > if they can re-attach my shoulder blade to my back after a nasty car
> > accident I was a passenger in a couple years back. The latest MRI
> > photos show some muscles shredded bad.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > FrankW wrote:
> >
> >>Holy Jeepers!
> >>I know in some areas, St Zenon for example is a bad area for theft.
> >>I didn't hear about other areas though.
> >>As for the Bancroft area
> >>What area club are you refering to?
> >>

> >
> > <snip>


Mike Romain 07-04-2005 03:27 PM

Re: Mike Romain Still thinking of heading north into Queerbec?
 
That was our fall/end of summer run and bear was opening as we were
leaving in September so the hunters were all in getting camps ready.

I will send you a few invites to the albums, I have to send each one
individually.

Mike

FrankW wrote:
>
> Unless your on private land. I don't know what these bear hunters are on
> about. Bear hunting is not in season. About the only thing that may be
> in season right now is Wolf and Coyote. I myself are a hunter.
> About the only thing I'd be concerned about is Guerrilla Pot growers.
> It is getting out of hand and is forcing closures for the local areas
> around here. And also the burned cars/vans etc
> Can you send me an invite for the pics
> Thanks in advance
> Remove MXZ to reply
> Cheers
> Frank
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
>
> > I still haven't sorted out what club(s) were involved, it seems like a
> > couple with some non Jeep trailer queens as well.
> >
> > That area is so hot right now with land owners and stewards vs the off
> > road crowd I would rather not post names in public anyway.
> >
> > We got swarmed by a bunch of drunks that came to the lake we had 9 folks
> > from this newsgroup camped at a couple years ago. They came from armed
> > bear camps and they went ballistic on us when they found out we all met
> > through the internet and as a group come into 'their' woods.
> >
> > Apparently one of the local clubs was posting GPS maps and camp location
> > info publicly and vandalism has gone way up with a couple recent
> > burnings of camps. I know one we have permission to use had the insides
> > trashed and the wood stove tossed out through the window a few years
> > back. It is getting bad in there..... :-(
> >
> > Way too easy access and these assholes just opened up a tight ATV trail
> > so monster Jeeps and trucks can get through. There are over 20 camps on
> > this one trail.
> >
> > The locals even dynamited a place on this trail into a ravine so only
> > small vehicles could bypass it. 31x10.5" tires on a YJ had to ride up
> > trees to fit.
> >
> > Photos from that run are here:
> > http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292076845
> >
> > If you are not a member of Sony's site, I can email an invite to view
> > the album. They are a free place to store photos and 'used' to be open
> > to the public.
> >
> > My wife and I really want to just canoe up to James Bay again. We did
> > that a few years back, paddled from Cochrane Ontario up to Moosenee with
> > our at the time 16 year old son and nephew. It needs 10 days to 2 weeks
> > to not be in a rush for that run. That was a trip and a half but isn't
> > feasible in my near future. The doctors are still trying to figure out
> > if they can re-attach my shoulder blade to my back after a nasty car
> > accident I was a passenger in a couple years back. The latest MRI
> > photos show some muscles shredded bad.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > FrankW wrote:
> >
> >>Holy Jeepers!
> >>I know in some areas, St Zenon for example is a bad area for theft.
> >>I didn't hear about other areas though.
> >>As for the Bancroft area
> >>What area club are you refering to?
> >>

> >
> > <snip>


Mike Romain 07-04-2005 03:27 PM

Re: Mike Romain Still thinking of heading north into Queerbec?
 
That was our fall/end of summer run and bear was opening as we were
leaving in September so the hunters were all in getting camps ready.

I will send you a few invites to the albums, I have to send each one
individually.

Mike

FrankW wrote:
>
> Unless your on private land. I don't know what these bear hunters are on
> about. Bear hunting is not in season. About the only thing that may be
> in season right now is Wolf and Coyote. I myself are a hunter.
> About the only thing I'd be concerned about is Guerrilla Pot growers.
> It is getting out of hand and is forcing closures for the local areas
> around here. And also the burned cars/vans etc
> Can you send me an invite for the pics
> Thanks in advance
> Remove MXZ to reply
> Cheers
> Frank
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
>
> > I still haven't sorted out what club(s) were involved, it seems like a
> > couple with some non Jeep trailer queens as well.
> >
> > That area is so hot right now with land owners and stewards vs the off
> > road crowd I would rather not post names in public anyway.
> >
> > We got swarmed by a bunch of drunks that came to the lake we had 9 folks
> > from this newsgroup camped at a couple years ago. They came from armed
> > bear camps and they went ballistic on us when they found out we all met
> > through the internet and as a group come into 'their' woods.
> >
> > Apparently one of the local clubs was posting GPS maps and camp location
> > info publicly and vandalism has gone way up with a couple recent
> > burnings of camps. I know one we have permission to use had the insides
> > trashed and the wood stove tossed out through the window a few years
> > back. It is getting bad in there..... :-(
> >
> > Way too easy access and these assholes just opened up a tight ATV trail
> > so monster Jeeps and trucks can get through. There are over 20 camps on
> > this one trail.
> >
> > The locals even dynamited a place on this trail into a ravine so only
> > small vehicles could bypass it. 31x10.5" tires on a YJ had to ride up
> > trees to fit.
> >
> > Photos from that run are here:
> > http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292076845
> >
> > If you are not a member of Sony's site, I can email an invite to view
> > the album. They are a free place to store photos and 'used' to be open
> > to the public.
> >
> > My wife and I really want to just canoe up to James Bay again. We did
> > that a few years back, paddled from Cochrane Ontario up to Moosenee with
> > our at the time 16 year old son and nephew. It needs 10 days to 2 weeks
> > to not be in a rush for that run. That was a trip and a half but isn't
> > feasible in my near future. The doctors are still trying to figure out
> > if they can re-attach my shoulder blade to my back after a nasty car
> > accident I was a passenger in a couple years back. The latest MRI
> > photos show some muscles shredded bad.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > FrankW wrote:
> >
> >>Holy Jeepers!
> >>I know in some areas, St Zenon for example is a bad area for theft.
> >>I didn't hear about other areas though.
> >>As for the Bancroft area
> >>What area club are you refering to?
> >>

> >
> > <snip>



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