Re: M-151 Mutt / Jeep
 

he would have got my feet in his A.....

--
--
LE CLONE

279 Notre-Dame
Gatineau, Qc
J8P 1K6
(819) 643-0511
SANS FRAIS 1 888 643 0511
NOUVEAU REVENDEUR AUTORISEE SERVICE INTERNET

patrick@leclone.com
www.leclone.com

President
Patrick Guarnaccia
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:lXvwd.1538$Ar5.642@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk ...
> I had a boss who had one which would break down every other day. I fixed
it
> for him one lunchtime in a client's carpark so we could get home ; the
> bastard wrote on my review form for the assignment that I had "oil under
my
> fingernails". If I ever see that MGB again, I'm doing to drive my Waggy
> right over the top of it..
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:41C26D37.E3EBF184@cox.net...
> > Yup, that's what that plastic screw thingie was for, to unscrew and
> > top off with oil, with every lube job. I took a job to start an old MG,
> > one of the sleeves was stuck wide open, and I didn't know it until after
> > I squirted it with starting fluid and cranked it. Must of done ten grand
> > for ten seconds, with the ignition off. Fortunately she tuned up
> > perfect, without any extra knocks.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
>

Re: M-151 Mutt / Jeep
 

he would have got my feet in his A.....

--
--
LE CLONE

279 Notre-Dame
Gatineau, Qc
J8P 1K6
(819) 643-0511
SANS FRAIS 1 888 643 0511
NOUVEAU REVENDEUR AUTORISEE SERVICE INTERNET

patrick@leclone.com
www.leclone.com

President
Patrick Guarnaccia
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:lXvwd.1538$Ar5.642@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk ...
> I had a boss who had one which would break down every other day. I fixed
it
> for him one lunchtime in a client's carpark so we could get home ; the
> bastard wrote on my review form for the assignment that I had "oil under
my
> fingernails". If I ever see that MGB again, I'm doing to drive my Waggy
> right over the top of it..
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:41C26D37.E3EBF184@cox.net...
> > Yup, that's what that plastic screw thingie was for, to unscrew and
> > top off with oil, with every lube job. I took a job to start an old MG,
> > one of the sleeves was stuck wide open, and I didn't know it until after
> > I squirted it with starting fluid and cranked it. Must of done ten grand
> > for ten seconds, with the ignition off. Fortunately she tuned up
> > perfect, without any extra knocks.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
>

Re: M-151 Mutt / Jeep
 

Hey Bill, sorry to take so long getting back to this, had to do a
little reaserch :).

First off, I did see the website you posted. I'd have to say I'm a
little leary about *Thier* accuracy. The part where they say the
original developement contract was let out in 1950 as a replacement
was required for the M38A1 seems a little suspect as the A1 didn't
enter service until '52-'53 somwheres. I do seem to recall that the
151's were unibody construction, certainly the one we had in our unit
when I was in the military had a pronounced bend in the middle from
someone getting a little too enthusiastic about jumping a ditch with
it :). Can't see that it would look quite the way it did with
body-on-frame construction. Here's a picture of one from underneath,

http://members.aol.com/muttguru/a2lc-f.JPG



Now I did contact my wife's second cousin's husband about all this as
he owns a 151A2 that he's in the process of restoring. Just for the
record he's a machinst working for Pratt & Whitney where he earns a
living turning hunks of titanium into PT6 turbine wheels, so I'm
assuming he knows the difference between titanium, aluminum & steel.
He tells me he's heard that some all aluminum 151s were built for
airborne use (or maybe he's thinking of the Mighty Mite
http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/module...article&sid=69
) but the vast majority were built of steel, certainly not titanium.
His certainly makes an excellant storage system for refrigerator
magnets ;>.

For the engine, his is definately a Ford. A couple of web pages list
two other engines (maybe earlier versions?), a Continental with a
downdraft carb & a Hercules with the side draft. I can't comment on
the carb in the picture as I have no experience with British or other
european carbs. but doing a Google on M151+carburetor brings back
links that seem to idicate the carbs are Zeniths. Yup, it looks
strange alright, but to me so does the right angle doo-hickey one on
the M38A1. Maybe the Mutt uses a British Ford engine (Cosworth
Mutt?!? WOOHOO!!!) but I'm suspecting the reason it looks funny is
the design requirement for it not to leak water inside whilst
submerged :(.

Commnets?

H.

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:12:05 -0800, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
<----------@cox.net> wrote:

>Hi Howard,
> You didn't see that was a "geocities" site, with glaring errors,
>like there's no frame for one.
> They cut them up before they could be sold as surplus salvage, for
>litigious reasons. It was impossible to weld or even bolt the halves
>together even using a gusset, and not have something even more
>dangerous. When I was in the ARMY they definitely didn't have a steel
>bodies, they were made light, as you may see each axle had a loop to
>attach to a parachute. This site says they were all aluminum:
>http://www.m151.uklinux.net/military/m151/m151.html Yes, Ford
>assembled the M-151, along with Kaiser Jeep, AM General and General
>Motors, but you'll never find that engine anywhere else. Does this look
>like an American Carburetor to you?
>http://www.m151.uklinux.net/military...lery/mutt3.jpg
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
>Howard Eisenhauer wrote:
>>
>> Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK getting cut up with a torch is
>> exactly what happened to most of the 151s, I've seen a few that were
>> welded back togeather again. For Titanium they were damn rusty-
>>
>> Don't ever recall ever seeing one burning JP4 insted of gasoline
>> though- :).
>>
>> From
>>
>> http://www.geocities.com/fordm151/
>>
>> I quote -
>>
>> "In 1960 quantity production of the M151 started at Ford's Highland
>> Park factory in Michigan. The engine was the Ford L142 - a 4-cylinder
>> 2,320 cc. unit delivering 72 bhp. at 4,000 rpm. - but the steel bodies
>> were built by Fruehauf. "
>>
>> Howard.

Re: M-151 Mutt / Jeep
 

Hey Bill, sorry to take so long getting back to this, had to do a
little reaserch :).

First off, I did see the website you posted. I'd have to say I'm a
little leary about *Thier* accuracy. The part where they say the
original developement contract was let out in 1950 as a replacement
was required for the M38A1 seems a little suspect as the A1 didn't
enter service until '52-'53 somwheres. I do seem to recall that the
151's were unibody construction, certainly the one we had in our unit
when I was in the military had a pronounced bend in the middle from
someone getting a little too enthusiastic about jumping a ditch with
it :). Can't see that it would look quite the way it did with
body-on-frame construction. Here's a picture of one from underneath,

http://members.aol.com/muttguru/a2lc-f.JPG



Now I did contact my wife's second cousin's husband about all this as
he owns a 151A2 that he's in the process of restoring. Just for the
record he's a machinst working for Pratt & Whitney where he earns a
living turning hunks of titanium into PT6 turbine wheels, so I'm
assuming he knows the difference between titanium, aluminum & steel.
He tells me he's heard that some all aluminum 151s were built for
airborne use (or maybe he's thinking of the Mighty Mite
http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/module...article&sid=69
) but the vast majority were built of steel, certainly not titanium.
His certainly makes an excellant storage system for refrigerator
magnets ;>.

For the engine, his is definately a Ford. A couple of web pages list
two other engines (maybe earlier versions?), a Continental with a
downdraft carb & a Hercules with the side draft. I can't comment on
the carb in the picture as I have no experience with British or other
european carbs. but doing a Google on M151+carburetor brings back
links that seem to idicate the carbs are Zeniths. Yup, it looks
strange alright, but to me so does the right angle doo-hickey one on
the M38A1. Maybe the Mutt uses a British Ford engine (Cosworth
Mutt?!? WOOHOO!!!) but I'm suspecting the reason it looks funny is
the design requirement for it not to leak water inside whilst
submerged :(.

Commnets?

H.

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:12:05 -0800, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
<----------@cox.net> wrote:

>Hi Howard,
> You didn't see that was a "geocities" site, with glaring errors,
>like there's no frame for one.
> They cut them up before they could be sold as surplus salvage, for
>litigious reasons. It was impossible to weld or even bolt the halves
>together even using a gusset, and not have something even more
>dangerous. When I was in the ARMY they definitely didn't have a steel
>bodies, they were made light, as you may see each axle had a loop to
>attach to a parachute. This site says they were all aluminum:
>http://www.m151.uklinux.net/military/m151/m151.html Yes, Ford
>assembled the M-151, along with Kaiser Jeep, AM General and General
>Motors, but you'll never find that engine anywhere else. Does this look
>like an American Carburetor to you?
>http://www.m151.uklinux.net/military...lery/mutt3.jpg
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
>Howard Eisenhauer wrote:
>>
>> Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK getting cut up with a torch is
>> exactly what happened to most of the 151s, I've seen a few that were
>> welded back togeather again. For Titanium they were damn rusty-
>>
>> Don't ever recall ever seeing one burning JP4 insted of gasoline
>> though- :).
>>
>> From
>>
>> http://www.geocities.com/fordm151/
>>
>> I quote -
>>
>> "In 1960 quantity production of the M151 started at Ford's Highland
>> Park factory in Michigan. The engine was the Ford L142 - a 4-cylinder
>> 2,320 cc. unit delivering 72 bhp. at 4,000 rpm. - but the steel bodies
>> were built by Fruehauf. "
>>
>> Howard.

Re: M-151 Mutt / Jeep
 

Hey Bill, sorry to take so long getting back to this, had to do a
little reaserch :).

First off, I did see the website you posted. I'd have to say I'm a
little leary about *Thier* accuracy. The part where they say the
original developement contract was let out in 1950 as a replacement
was required for the M38A1 seems a little suspect as the A1 didn't
enter service until '52-'53 somwheres. I do seem to recall that the
151's were unibody construction, certainly the one we had in our unit
when I was in the military had a pronounced bend in the middle from
someone getting a little too enthusiastic about jumping a ditch with
it :). Can't see that it would look quite the way it did with
body-on-frame construction. Here's a picture of one from underneath,

http://members.aol.com/muttguru/a2lc-f.JPG



Now I did contact my wife's second cousin's husband about all this as
he owns a 151A2 that he's in the process of restoring. Just for the
record he's a machinst working for Pratt & Whitney where he earns a
living turning hunks of titanium into PT6 turbine wheels, so I'm
assuming he knows the difference between titanium, aluminum & steel.
He tells me he's heard that some all aluminum 151s were built for
airborne use (or maybe he's thinking of the Mighty Mite
http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/module...article&sid=69
) but the vast majority were built of steel, certainly not titanium.
His certainly makes an excellant storage system for refrigerator
magnets ;>.

For the engine, his is definately a Ford. A couple of web pages list
two other engines (maybe earlier versions?), a Continental with a
downdraft carb & a Hercules with the side draft. I can't comment on
the carb in the picture as I have no experience with British or other
european carbs. but doing a Google on M151+carburetor brings back
links that seem to idicate the carbs are Zeniths. Yup, it looks
strange alright, but to me so does the right angle doo-hickey one on
the M38A1. Maybe the Mutt uses a British Ford engine (Cosworth
Mutt?!? WOOHOO!!!) but I'm suspecting the reason it looks funny is
the design requirement for it not to leak water inside whilst
submerged :(.

Commnets?

H.

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:12:05 -0800, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
<----------@cox.net> wrote:

>Hi Howard,
> You didn't see that was a "geocities" site, with glaring errors,
>like there's no frame for one.
> They cut them up before they could be sold as surplus salvage, for
>litigious reasons. It was impossible to weld or even bolt the halves
>together even using a gusset, and not have something even more
>dangerous. When I was in the ARMY they definitely didn't have a steel
>bodies, they were made light, as you may see each axle had a loop to
>attach to a parachute. This site says they were all aluminum:
>http://www.m151.uklinux.net/military/m151/m151.html Yes, Ford
>assembled the M-151, along with Kaiser Jeep, AM General and General
>Motors, but you'll never find that engine anywhere else. Does this look
>like an American Carburetor to you?
>http://www.m151.uklinux.net/military...lery/mutt3.jpg
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
>Howard Eisenhauer wrote:
>>
>> Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK getting cut up with a torch is
>> exactly what happened to most of the 151s, I've seen a few that were
>> welded back togeather again. For Titanium they were damn rusty-
>>
>> Don't ever recall ever seeing one burning JP4 insted of gasoline
>> though- :).
>>
>> From
>>
>> http://www.geocities.com/fordm151/
>>
>> I quote -
>>
>> "In 1960 quantity production of the M151 started at Ford's Highland
>> Park factory in Michigan. The engine was the Ford L142 - a 4-cylinder
>> 2,320 cc. unit delivering 72 bhp. at 4,000 rpm. - but the steel bodies
>> were built by Fruehauf. "
>>
>> Howard.

Re: M-151 Mutt / Jeep
 

Howard, I don't know what they're looking at, but the M-151 I drove back
in '66 had independent suspension, like:
http://www.m151.uklinux.net/military...ry/muttdrw.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Howard Eisenhauer wrote:
>
> Hey Bill, sorry to take so long getting back to this, had to do a
> little reaserch :).
>
> First off, I did see the website you posted. I'd have to say I'm a
> little leary about *Thier* accuracy. The part where they say the
> original developement contract was let out in 1950 as a replacement
> was required for the M38A1 seems a little suspect as the A1 didn't
> enter service until '52-'53 somwheres. I do seem to recall that the
> 151's were unibody construction, certainly the one we had in our unit
> when I was in the military had a pronounced bend in the middle from
> someone getting a little too enthusiastic about jumping a ditch with
> it :). Can't see that it would look quite the way it did with
> body-on-frame construction. Here's a picture of one from underneath,
>
> http://members.aol.com/muttguru/a2lc-f.JPG
>
> Now I did contact my wife's second cousin's husband about all this as
> he owns a 151A2 that he's in the process of restoring. Just for the
> record he's a machinst working for Pratt & Whitney where he earns a
> living turning hunks of titanium into PT6 turbine wheels, so I'm
> assuming he knows the difference between titanium, aluminum & steel.
> He tells me he's heard that some all aluminum 151s were built for
> airborne use (or maybe he's thinking of the Mighty Mite
> http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/module...article&sid=69
> ) but the vast majority were built of steel, certainly not titanium.
> His certainly makes an excellant storage system for refrigerator
> magnets ;>.
>
> For the engine, his is definately a Ford. A couple of web pages list
> two other engines (maybe earlier versions?), a Continental with a
> downdraft carb & a Hercules with the side draft. I can't comment on
> the carb in the picture as I have no experience with British or other
> european carbs. but doing a Google on M151+carburetor brings back
> links that seem to idicate the carbs are Zeniths. Yup, it looks
> strange alright, but to me so does the right angle doo-hickey one on
> the M38A1. Maybe the Mutt uses a British Ford engine (Cosworth
> Mutt?!? WOOHOO!!!) but I'm suspecting the reason it looks funny is
> the design requirement for it not to leak water inside whilst
> submerged :(.
>
> Commnets?
>
> H.

Re: M-151 Mutt / Jeep
 

Howard, I don't know what they're looking at, but the M-151 I drove back
in '66 had independent suspension, like:
http://www.m151.uklinux.net/military...ry/muttdrw.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Howard Eisenhauer wrote:
>
> Hey Bill, sorry to take so long getting back to this, had to do a
> little reaserch :).
>
> First off, I did see the website you posted. I'd have to say I'm a
> little leary about *Thier* accuracy. The part where they say the
> original developement contract was let out in 1950 as a replacement
> was required for the M38A1 seems a little suspect as the A1 didn't
> enter service until '52-'53 somwheres. I do seem to recall that the
> 151's were unibody construction, certainly the one we had in our unit
> when I was in the military had a pronounced bend in the middle from
> someone getting a little too enthusiastic about jumping a ditch with
> it :). Can't see that it would look quite the way it did with
> body-on-frame construction. Here's a picture of one from underneath,
>
> http://members.aol.com/muttguru/a2lc-f.JPG
>
> Now I did contact my wife's second cousin's husband about all this as
> he owns a 151A2 that he's in the process of restoring. Just for the
> record he's a machinst working for Pratt & Whitney where he earns a
> living turning hunks of titanium into PT6 turbine wheels, so I'm
> assuming he knows the difference between titanium, aluminum & steel.
> He tells me he's heard that some all aluminum 151s were built for
> airborne use (or maybe he's thinking of the Mighty Mite
> http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/module...article&sid=69
> ) but the vast majority were built of steel, certainly not titanium.
> His certainly makes an excellant storage system for refrigerator
> magnets ;>.
>
> For the engine, his is definately a Ford. A couple of web pages list
> two other engines (maybe earlier versions?), a Continental with a
> downdraft carb & a Hercules with the side draft. I can't comment on
> the carb in the picture as I have no experience with British or other
> european carbs. but doing a Google on M151+carburetor brings back
> links that seem to idicate the carbs are Zeniths. Yup, it looks
> strange alright, but to me so does the right angle doo-hickey one on
> the M38A1. Maybe the Mutt uses a British Ford engine (Cosworth
> Mutt?!? WOOHOO!!!) but I'm suspecting the reason it looks funny is
> the design requirement for it not to leak water inside whilst
> submerged :(.
>
> Commnets?
>
> H.

Re: M-151 Mutt / Jeep
 

Howard, I don't know what they're looking at, but the M-151 I drove back
in '66 had independent suspension, like:
http://www.m151.uklinux.net/military...ry/muttdrw.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Howard Eisenhauer wrote:
>
> Hey Bill, sorry to take so long getting back to this, had to do a
> little reaserch :).
>
> First off, I did see the website you posted. I'd have to say I'm a
> little leary about *Thier* accuracy. The part where they say the
> original developement contract was let out in 1950 as a replacement
> was required for the M38A1 seems a little suspect as the A1 didn't
> enter service until '52-'53 somwheres. I do seem to recall that the
> 151's were unibody construction, certainly the one we had in our unit
> when I was in the military had a pronounced bend in the middle from
> someone getting a little too enthusiastic about jumping a ditch with
> it :). Can't see that it would look quite the way it did with
> body-on-frame construction. Here's a picture of one from underneath,
>
> http://members.aol.com/muttguru/a2lc-f.JPG
>
> Now I did contact my wife's second cousin's husband about all this as
> he owns a 151A2 that he's in the process of restoring. Just for the
> record he's a machinst working for Pratt & Whitney where he earns a
> living turning hunks of titanium into PT6 turbine wheels, so I'm
> assuming he knows the difference between titanium, aluminum & steel.
> He tells me he's heard that some all aluminum 151s were built for
> airborne use (or maybe he's thinking of the Mighty Mite
> http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/module...article&sid=69
> ) but the vast majority were built of steel, certainly not titanium.
> His certainly makes an excellant storage system for refrigerator
> magnets ;>.
>
> For the engine, his is definately a Ford. A couple of web pages list
> two other engines (maybe earlier versions?), a Continental with a
> downdraft carb & a Hercules with the side draft. I can't comment on
> the carb in the picture as I have no experience with British or other
> european carbs. but doing a Google on M151+carburetor brings back
> links that seem to idicate the carbs are Zeniths. Yup, it looks
> strange alright, but to me so does the right angle doo-hickey one on
> the M38A1. Maybe the Mutt uses a British Ford engine (Cosworth
> Mutt?!? WOOHOO!!!) but I'm suspecting the reason it looks funny is
> the design requirement for it not to leak water inside whilst
> submerged :(.
>
> Commnets?
>
> H.

Re: M-151 Mutt / Jeep
 

The Jag 3.8 S had a somewhat similar failure mode that would have
spawned massive lawsuits today. Took a used one on a test drive and
as soon as it warmed up it headed for the redline--which is a bit
more of a pucker factor in a Jag than in an MG.

Never used oil in my 'B, stretched the springs and ran ATF in them.

L.W.(ßill) ------ III proclaimed:

> Yup, that's what that plastic screw thingie was for, to unscrew and
> top off with oil, with every lube job. I took a job to start an old MG,
> one of the sleeves was stuck wide open, and I didn't know it until after
> I squirted it with starting fluid and cranked it. Must of done ten grand
> for ten seconds, with the ignition off. Fortunately she tuned up
> perfect, without any extra knocks.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O

Re: M-151 Mutt / Jeep
 

The Jag 3.8 S had a somewhat similar failure mode that would have
spawned massive lawsuits today. Took a used one on a test drive and
as soon as it warmed up it headed for the redline--which is a bit
more of a pucker factor in a Jag than in an MG.

Never used oil in my 'B, stretched the springs and ran ATF in them.

L.W.(ßill) ------ III proclaimed:

> Yup, that's what that plastic screw thingie was for, to unscrew and
> top off with oil, with every lube job. I took a job to start an old MG,
> one of the sleeves was stuck wide open, and I didn't know it until after
> I squirted it with starting fluid and cranked it. Must of done ten grand
> for ten seconds, with the ignition off. Fortunately she tuned up
> perfect, without any extra knocks.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O