tk

Back from the dealer, they say I have a cracked head and the crack is
visible from the oil filler hole in the valve cover. The service
advisor said that they have seen these before in a range of motors that
my year falls in. This is where the coolant is going and that I am
burning it he says.

He also ran a mechanical oil pressure gauge to the sending unit and the
engine is 9 psi at idle which he thinks is below normal and that there
is bearing damage.

He is recommending a new long block at $3000 plus installation ($1500),
he also mentioned that they could find and install a used one as well
for around a $1000, installed for $2500

Not to mention the rear end needs an overhaul with new bearings as
metal is coming out in the oil.

Nice xmas present.... thoughts anyone?

Tom





billy ray wrote:
> Not only does the engine have to be at full temp and pressurized but at temp
> long enough to get the hoses fully softened.
>
> Ed had a tiny little split hidden by the radiator clamp. Turns out the hoses
> were factory from '96. It is lucky he didn't have to walk home...
>
>
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:4586BB80.2C5D5D18@sympatico.ca...
> >I also had one of those recently. Drove me nuts until I noticed my
> > battery was covered in coolant. Same deal a mini pin hole that would
> > only open up at highway speeds when it was really hot.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > c wrote:
> >>
> >> You might have one of those mysterious leaks that only happens when the
> >> vehicle is totally warmed up. I have a Chevy truck a while back that was
> >> losing coolant. I knew it was a leak because I would see a puddle of
> >> coolant
> >> on the ground once in a while. A system pressure test showed no leaks. My
> >> friend eventually found the leak. (He has a repair shop that is based on
> >> AC
> >> and radiator repair) The way he eventually found the problem was to
> >> pressurize the system with a pressure tester and let the truck run. If I
> >> recall, he said it took about 90 minutes, but eventually a small pinhole
> >> in
> >> the upper hose started spewing coolant. The thing absolutely would not
> >> leak
> >> until it was at full operating temperature.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> <realtreebob@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1166439689.392296.265190@73g2000cwn.googlegro ups.com...
> >> >I have all the same symtoms on my 2000 Grand Cherokee 4,0 Ltd.
> >> >
> >> > I know everything points to a head gasket but its twice the price to do
> >> > here in the UK.
> >> > Jeep have had my car for 2 days and they say it is NOT the head gasket.
> >> >
> >> > There is no microscopic parts per million of oil in the water or water
> >> > in the oil
> >> > but I still get through a litre in 40 to 80 miles with no leaks or loss
> >> > of power.
> >> >
> >> > Bob
> >> >

Earle Horton

If this guy replaces the long block, then you won't or shouldn't have a
coolant leak afterwards. I find it hard to believe that one can see a
"crack in the cylinder head" looking inside the oil filler hole in the valve
cover. I would want to take off the valve cover and get a good look at that
crack before investing in a long block and installation. Nine psi at idle
is low, but doesn't necessarily mean bearing damage. The conclusive
diagnosis of bearing damage is when you drop the oil pan, take off the
bearing caps, and look at the bearing surfaces. I guess it amounts to how
much you trust this guy. $4,500 is a lot of money, but I guess you know
that already.

Are there any other symptoms associated with this alleged metal in the rear
end oil? Unusual noise comes to mind.

Good luck.

Earle

"tk" <thomas_kessler@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1166677321.553886.68770@73g2000cwn.googlegrou ps.com...
> Back from the dealer, they say I have a cracked head and the crack is
> visible from the oil filler hole in the valve cover. The service
> advisor said that they have seen these before in a range of motors that
> my year falls in. This is where the coolant is going and that I am
> burning it he says.
>
> He also ran a mechanical oil pressure gauge to the sending unit and the
> engine is 9 psi at idle which he thinks is below normal and that there
> is bearing damage.
>
> He is recommending a new long block at $3000 plus installation ($1500),
> he also mentioned that they could find and install a used one as well
> for around a $1000, installed for $2500
>
> Not to mention the rear end needs an overhaul with new bearings as
> metal is coming out in the oil.
>
> Nice xmas present.... thoughts anyone?
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>
> billy ray wrote:
> > Not only does the engine have to be at full temp and pressurized but at
temp
> > long enough to get the hoses fully softened.
> >
> > Ed had a tiny little split hidden by the radiator clamp. Turns out the
hoses
> > were factory from '96. It is lucky he didn't have to walk home...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:4586BB80.2C5D5D18@sympatico.ca...
> > >I also had one of those recently. Drove me nuts until I noticed my
> > > battery was covered in coolant. Same deal a mini pin hole that would
> > > only open up at highway speeds when it was really hot.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > >
> > > c wrote:
> > >>
> > >> You might have one of those mysterious leaks that only happens when
the
> > >> vehicle is totally warmed up. I have a Chevy truck a while back that
was
> > >> losing coolant. I knew it was a leak because I would see a puddle of
> > >> coolant
> > >> on the ground once in a while. A system pressure test showed no
leaks. My
> > >> friend eventually found the leak. (He has a repair shop that is based
on
> > >> AC
> > >> and radiator repair) The way he eventually found the problem was to
> > >> pressurize the system with a pressure tester and let the truck run.
If I
> > >> recall, he said it took about 90 minutes, but eventually a small
pinhole
> > >> in
> > >> the upper hose started spewing coolant. The thing absolutely would
not
> > >> leak
> > >> until it was at full operating temperature.
> > >>
> > >> Chris
> > >>
> > >> <realtreebob@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >> news:1166439689.392296.265190@73g2000cwn.googlegro ups.com...
> > >> >I have all the same symtoms on my 2000 Grand Cherokee 4,0 Ltd.
> > >> >
> > >> > I know everything points to a head gasket but its twice the price
to do
> > >> > here in the UK.
> > >> > Jeep have had my car for 2 days and they say it is NOT the head
gasket.
> > >> >
> > >> > There is no microscopic parts per million of oil in the water or
water
> > >> > in the oil
> > >> > but I still get through a litre in 40 to 80 miles with no leaks or
loss
> > >> > of power.
> > >> >
> > >> > Bob
> > >> >
>

Earle Horton

If this guy replaces the long block, then you won't or shouldn't have a
coolant leak afterwards. I find it hard to believe that one can see a
"crack in the cylinder head" looking inside the oil filler hole in the valve
cover. I would want to take off the valve cover and get a good look at that
crack before investing in a long block and installation. Nine psi at idle
is low, but doesn't necessarily mean bearing damage. The conclusive
diagnosis of bearing damage is when you drop the oil pan, take off the
bearing caps, and look at the bearing surfaces. I guess it amounts to how
much you trust this guy. $4,500 is a lot of money, but I guess you know
that already.

Are there any other symptoms associated with this alleged metal in the rear
end oil? Unusual noise comes to mind.

Good luck.

Earle

"tk" <thomas_kessler@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1166677321.553886.68770@73g2000cwn.googlegrou ps.com...
> Back from the dealer, they say I have a cracked head and the crack is
> visible from the oil filler hole in the valve cover. The service
> advisor said that they have seen these before in a range of motors that
> my year falls in. This is where the coolant is going and that I am
> burning it he says.
>
> He also ran a mechanical oil pressure gauge to the sending unit and the
> engine is 9 psi at idle which he thinks is below normal and that there
> is bearing damage.
>
> He is recommending a new long block at $3000 plus installation ($1500),
> he also mentioned that they could find and install a used one as well
> for around a $1000, installed for $2500
>
> Not to mention the rear end needs an overhaul with new bearings as
> metal is coming out in the oil.
>
> Nice xmas present.... thoughts anyone?
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>
> billy ray wrote:
> > Not only does the engine have to be at full temp and pressurized but at
temp
> > long enough to get the hoses fully softened.
> >
> > Ed had a tiny little split hidden by the radiator clamp. Turns out the
hoses
> > were factory from '96. It is lucky he didn't have to walk home...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:4586BB80.2C5D5D18@sympatico.ca...
> > >I also had one of those recently. Drove me nuts until I noticed my
> > > battery was covered in coolant. Same deal a mini pin hole that would
> > > only open up at highway speeds when it was really hot.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > >
> > > c wrote:
> > >>
> > >> You might have one of those mysterious leaks that only happens when
the
> > >> vehicle is totally warmed up. I have a Chevy truck a while back that
was
> > >> losing coolant. I knew it was a leak because I would see a puddle of
> > >> coolant
> > >> on the ground once in a while. A system pressure test showed no
leaks. My
> > >> friend eventually found the leak. (He has a repair shop that is based
on
> > >> AC
> > >> and radiator repair) The way he eventually found the problem was to
> > >> pressurize the system with a pressure tester and let the truck run.
If I
> > >> recall, he said it took about 90 minutes, but eventually a small
pinhole
> > >> in
> > >> the upper hose started spewing coolant. The thing absolutely would
not
> > >> leak
> > >> until it was at full operating temperature.
> > >>
> > >> Chris
> > >>
> > >> <realtreebob@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >> news:1166439689.392296.265190@73g2000cwn.googlegro ups.com...
> > >> >I have all the same symtoms on my 2000 Grand Cherokee 4,0 Ltd.
> > >> >
> > >> > I know everything points to a head gasket but its twice the price
to do
> > >> > here in the UK.
> > >> > Jeep have had my car for 2 days and they say it is NOT the head
gasket.
> > >> >
> > >> > There is no microscopic parts per million of oil in the water or
water
> > >> > in the oil
> > >> > but I still get through a litre in 40 to 80 miles with no leaks or
loss
> > >> > of power.
> > >> >
> > >> > Bob
> > >> >
>

Earle Horton

If this guy replaces the long block, then you won't or shouldn't have a
coolant leak afterwards. I find it hard to believe that one can see a
"crack in the cylinder head" looking inside the oil filler hole in the valve
cover. I would want to take off the valve cover and get a good look at that
crack before investing in a long block and installation. Nine psi at idle
is low, but doesn't necessarily mean bearing damage. The conclusive
diagnosis of bearing damage is when you drop the oil pan, take off the
bearing caps, and look at the bearing surfaces. I guess it amounts to how
much you trust this guy. $4,500 is a lot of money, but I guess you know
that already.

Are there any other symptoms associated with this alleged metal in the rear
end oil? Unusual noise comes to mind.

Good luck.

Earle

"tk" <thomas_kessler@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1166677321.553886.68770@73g2000cwn.googlegrou ps.com...
> Back from the dealer, they say I have a cracked head and the crack is
> visible from the oil filler hole in the valve cover. The service
> advisor said that they have seen these before in a range of motors that
> my year falls in. This is where the coolant is going and that I am
> burning it he says.
>
> He also ran a mechanical oil pressure gauge to the sending unit and the
> engine is 9 psi at idle which he thinks is below normal and that there
> is bearing damage.
>
> He is recommending a new long block at $3000 plus installation ($1500),
> he also mentioned that they could find and install a used one as well
> for around a $1000, installed for $2500
>
> Not to mention the rear end needs an overhaul with new bearings as
> metal is coming out in the oil.
>
> Nice xmas present.... thoughts anyone?
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>
> billy ray wrote:
> > Not only does the engine have to be at full temp and pressurized but at
temp
> > long enough to get the hoses fully softened.
> >
> > Ed had a tiny little split hidden by the radiator clamp. Turns out the
hoses
> > were factory from '96. It is lucky he didn't have to walk home...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:4586BB80.2C5D5D18@sympatico.ca...
> > >I also had one of those recently. Drove me nuts until I noticed my
> > > battery was covered in coolant. Same deal a mini pin hole that would
> > > only open up at highway speeds when it was really hot.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > >
> > > c wrote:
> > >>
> > >> You might have one of those mysterious leaks that only happens when
the
> > >> vehicle is totally warmed up. I have a Chevy truck a while back that
was
> > >> losing coolant. I knew it was a leak because I would see a puddle of
> > >> coolant
> > >> on the ground once in a while. A system pressure test showed no
leaks. My
> > >> friend eventually found the leak. (He has a repair shop that is based
on
> > >> AC
> > >> and radiator repair) The way he eventually found the problem was to
> > >> pressurize the system with a pressure tester and let the truck run.
If I
> > >> recall, he said it took about 90 minutes, but eventually a small
pinhole
> > >> in
> > >> the upper hose started spewing coolant. The thing absolutely would
not
> > >> leak
> > >> until it was at full operating temperature.
> > >>
> > >> Chris
> > >>
> > >> <realtreebob@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >> news:1166439689.392296.265190@73g2000cwn.googlegro ups.com...
> > >> >I have all the same symtoms on my 2000 Grand Cherokee 4,0 Ltd.
> > >> >
> > >> > I know everything points to a head gasket but its twice the price
to do
> > >> > here in the UK.
> > >> > Jeep have had my car for 2 days and they say it is NOT the head
gasket.
> > >> >
> > >> > There is no microscopic parts per million of oil in the water or
water
> > >> > in the oil
> > >> > but I still get through a litre in 40 to 80 miles with no leaks or
loss
> > >> > of power.
> > >> >
> > >> > Bob
> > >> >
>

Outatime

tk wrote:

> Nice xmas present.... thoughts anyone?

Consider quietly obtaining a 2nd opinion from another dealership, but
don't mention the diagnosis, only symptoms, and see if their stories
match up. If they do, mention the repair price and see if they will
beat it enough to make it worth your while.

I'm surprised that this crack can be seen from the oil filler; if that
were truly the case, I would think that the coolant could/would easily
make its way into the oil, and as we all know, that nice frothy,
milkshake-like stuff on a dipstick is a dead giveaway.

Outatime

tk wrote:

> Nice xmas present.... thoughts anyone?

Consider quietly obtaining a 2nd opinion from another dealership, but
don't mention the diagnosis, only symptoms, and see if their stories
match up. If they do, mention the repair price and see if they will
beat it enough to make it worth your while.

I'm surprised that this crack can be seen from the oil filler; if that
were truly the case, I would think that the coolant could/would easily
make its way into the oil, and as we all know, that nice frothy,
milkshake-like stuff on a dipstick is a dead giveaway.

Outatime

tk wrote:

> Nice xmas present.... thoughts anyone?

Consider quietly obtaining a 2nd opinion from another dealership, but
don't mention the diagnosis, only symptoms, and see if their stories
match up. If they do, mention the repair price and see if they will
beat it enough to make it worth your while.

I'm surprised that this crack can be seen from the oil filler; if that
were truly the case, I would think that the coolant could/would easily
make its way into the oil, and as we all know, that nice frothy,
milkshake-like stuff on a dipstick is a dead giveaway.

Matt Macchiarolo

I agree, and as far as the rear end (I assume you mean axle?) if the oil has
never been changed before there often will be metal bits in there from the
gear break-in; Fords use magnetic plugs to collect them. Get the axle lube
changed and check it after a while.

I once had a jiffy-jerk tell me "when the axle lube gets thin and watery
it's time to change it." I said, "You mean like after I've been driving for
an hour and it gets warmed up?" He shut up quickly.

"Outatime" <user@example.net> wrote in message
news:TJGdncBXPfaU4hfYnZ2dnUVZ_tSunZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> tk wrote:
>
>> Nice xmas present.... thoughts anyone?
>
> Consider quietly obtaining a 2nd opinion from another dealership, but
> don't mention the diagnosis, only symptoms, and see if their stories match
> up. If they do, mention the repair price and see if they will beat it
> enough to make it worth your while.
>
> I'm surprised that this crack can be seen from the oil filler; if that
> were truly the case, I would think that the coolant could/would easily
> make its way into the oil, and as we all know, that nice frothy,
> milkshake-like stuff on a dipstick is a dead giveaway.

Matt Macchiarolo

I agree, and as far as the rear end (I assume you mean axle?) if the oil has
never been changed before there often will be metal bits in there from the
gear break-in; Fords use magnetic plugs to collect them. Get the axle lube
changed and check it after a while.

I once had a jiffy-jerk tell me "when the axle lube gets thin and watery
it's time to change it." I said, "You mean like after I've been driving for
an hour and it gets warmed up?" He shut up quickly.

"Outatime" <user@example.net> wrote in message
news:TJGdncBXPfaU4hfYnZ2dnUVZ_tSunZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> tk wrote:
>
>> Nice xmas present.... thoughts anyone?
>
> Consider quietly obtaining a 2nd opinion from another dealership, but
> don't mention the diagnosis, only symptoms, and see if their stories match
> up. If they do, mention the repair price and see if they will beat it
> enough to make it worth your while.
>
> I'm surprised that this crack can be seen from the oil filler; if that
> were truly the case, I would think that the coolant could/would easily
> make its way into the oil, and as we all know, that nice frothy,
> milkshake-like stuff on a dipstick is a dead giveaway.

Matt Macchiarolo

I agree, and as far as the rear end (I assume you mean axle?) if the oil has
never been changed before there often will be metal bits in there from the
gear break-in; Fords use magnetic plugs to collect them. Get the axle lube
changed and check it after a while.

I once had a jiffy-jerk tell me "when the axle lube gets thin and watery
it's time to change it." I said, "You mean like after I've been driving for
an hour and it gets warmed up?" He shut up quickly.

"Outatime" <user@example.net> wrote in message
news:TJGdncBXPfaU4hfYnZ2dnUVZ_tSunZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> tk wrote:
>
>> Nice xmas present.... thoughts anyone?
>
> Consider quietly obtaining a 2nd opinion from another dealership, but
> don't mention the diagnosis, only symptoms, and see if their stories match
> up. If they do, mention the repair price and see if they will beat it
> enough to make it worth your while.
>
> I'm surprised that this crack can be seen from the oil filler; if that
> were truly the case, I would think that the coolant could/would easily
> make its way into the oil, and as we all know, that nice frothy,
> milkshake-like stuff on a dipstick is a dead giveaway.