twaldron

j.lef wrote:

>>Yeah, it's a good thing. It shifts some power to the tire with more
>
> traction
>
>>when the rear tires have unequal traction. Otherwise, with an open
>>differential, if you say had one rear tire on an ice patch, and one on dry
>>pavement, an open differential will literally send all the power to the
>
> wheel
>
>>with NO traction and you'll sit there spinning...
>>
>>However the Jeep Traklock is nothing to get too excited about. It's
>>clutch-based and will wear out. But it'll last 60 or 80K miles and
>
> that's
>
>>probably about when most people who buy new cars sell 'em anyway (wouldn't
>
> know
>
>><g>)...
>>
>>-jeff
>
>
> But if your are driving in full time 4wd,
> would that situation occur to begin with? Sorry for not completely
> understanding. I understand what the effect of lsd does on a rear or front
> wheel drive, but how does it effect a jeep using part time or full time four
> wheel drive?
>
> Much
> regards Jerry

It affects it less, Jerry, but you have to agree that the more tires you
have with traction, the better.

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw

03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

twaldron

j.lef wrote:

>>Yeah, it's a good thing. It shifts some power to the tire with more
>
> traction
>
>>when the rear tires have unequal traction. Otherwise, with an open
>>differential, if you say had one rear tire on an ice patch, and one on dry
>>pavement, an open differential will literally send all the power to the
>
> wheel
>
>>with NO traction and you'll sit there spinning...
>>
>>However the Jeep Traklock is nothing to get too excited about. It's
>>clutch-based and will wear out. But it'll last 60 or 80K miles and
>
> that's
>
>>probably about when most people who buy new cars sell 'em anyway (wouldn't
>
> know
>
>><g>)...
>>
>>-jeff
>
>
> But if your are driving in full time 4wd,
> would that situation occur to begin with? Sorry for not completely
> understanding. I understand what the effect of lsd does on a rear or front
> wheel drive, but how does it effect a jeep using part time or full time four
> wheel drive?
>
> Much
> regards Jerry

It affects it less, Jerry, but you have to agree that the more tires you
have with traction, the better.

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw

03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

twaldron

j.lef wrote:

>>Yeah, it's a good thing. It shifts some power to the tire with more
>
> traction
>
>>when the rear tires have unequal traction. Otherwise, with an open
>>differential, if you say had one rear tire on an ice patch, and one on dry
>>pavement, an open differential will literally send all the power to the
>
> wheel
>
>>with NO traction and you'll sit there spinning...
>>
>>However the Jeep Traklock is nothing to get too excited about. It's
>>clutch-based and will wear out. But it'll last 60 or 80K miles and
>
> that's
>
>>probably about when most people who buy new cars sell 'em anyway (wouldn't
>
> know
>
>><g>)...
>>
>>-jeff
>
>
> But if your are driving in full time 4wd,
> would that situation occur to begin with? Sorry for not completely
> understanding. I understand what the effect of lsd does on a rear or front
> wheel drive, but how does it effect a jeep using part time or full time four
> wheel drive?
>
> Much
> regards Jerry

It affects it less, Jerry, but you have to agree that the more tires you
have with traction, the better.

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw

03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

Jerry Bransford

One thing a limited slip differential does 'not' do is shift power to one
side or the other. All it does is couple the spinning side to the
non-spinning side a little via its clutch pack so the resistance of the tire
with better traction allows more torque to be sent to both tires. Both
tires always, always, ALWAYS see exactly 50% of the torque sent to the rear
axle by the engine. It's just that when one tire starts spinning on an open
differential, the engine only sees the resistance of the spinning tire so it
develops very little torque and thus very little torque gets provided to the
tire that still has good traction. The more resistance the engine sees, the
more torque it develops... so when the LSD couples the spinning tire to the
tire that is not spinning, it sees more resistance and thus develops more
torque... which gives the tire with more traction more power so it gets you
going again. This is why stepping on the brakes a little when you're stuck,
or pulling the parking brake on a little if it's a rear tire that is
spinning, will often get you moving again since it provides more resistance
for the engine to work into which raises the amount of torque being sent to
both tires.

So when one tire is spinning, it's not that the differential is sending
"all" of the power to the spinning tire... it's really sending a 50:50 split
to both sides... but with one tire spinning, the engine sees so little
resistance that very little torque is developed and when that very little
torque is split 50:50 to both sides, the side with traction isn't getting
enough torque to move the vehicle... thus you're stuck.

The fact that both tires always see 50% of the 'available' torque, no matter
if it's equipped with a locker, LSD, or just an open axle is the hardest
thing for most people to understand. It's just how much torque is really
available to those tires that determine if you're going to be able to move
or not. :)

Jerry
--
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
"Handywired" <handywired@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040828033849.19087.00004249@mb-m06.aol.com...
>
>> Pricing out on edmunds my car. What exactly does the
>> limited
>>slip differential option do on a jeep, and is it preferable to have it?
>
> Yeah, it's a good thing. It shifts some power to the tire with more
> traction
> when the rear tires have unequal traction. Otherwise, with an open
> differential, if you say had one rear tire on an ice patch, and one on dry
> pavement, an open differential will literally send all the power to the
> wheel
> with NO traction and you'll sit there spinning...
>
> However the Jeep Traklock is nothing to get too excited about. It's
> clutch-based and will wear out. But it'll last 60 or 80K miles and
> that's
> probably about when most people who buy new cars sell 'em anyway (wouldn't
> know
> <g>)...
>
> -jeff

Jerry Bransford

One thing a limited slip differential does 'not' do is shift power to one
side or the other. All it does is couple the spinning side to the
non-spinning side a little via its clutch pack so the resistance of the tire
with better traction allows more torque to be sent to both tires. Both
tires always, always, ALWAYS see exactly 50% of the torque sent to the rear
axle by the engine. It's just that when one tire starts spinning on an open
differential, the engine only sees the resistance of the spinning tire so it
develops very little torque and thus very little torque gets provided to the
tire that still has good traction. The more resistance the engine sees, the
more torque it develops... so when the LSD couples the spinning tire to the
tire that is not spinning, it sees more resistance and thus develops more
torque... which gives the tire with more traction more power so it gets you
going again. This is why stepping on the brakes a little when you're stuck,
or pulling the parking brake on a little if it's a rear tire that is
spinning, will often get you moving again since it provides more resistance
for the engine to work into which raises the amount of torque being sent to
both tires.

So when one tire is spinning, it's not that the differential is sending
"all" of the power to the spinning tire... it's really sending a 50:50 split
to both sides... but with one tire spinning, the engine sees so little
resistance that very little torque is developed and when that very little
torque is split 50:50 to both sides, the side with traction isn't getting
enough torque to move the vehicle... thus you're stuck.

The fact that both tires always see 50% of the 'available' torque, no matter
if it's equipped with a locker, LSD, or just an open axle is the hardest
thing for most people to understand. It's just how much torque is really
available to those tires that determine if you're going to be able to move
or not. :)

Jerry
--
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
"Handywired" <handywired@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040828033849.19087.00004249@mb-m06.aol.com...
>
>> Pricing out on edmunds my car. What exactly does the
>> limited
>>slip differential option do on a jeep, and is it preferable to have it?
>
> Yeah, it's a good thing. It shifts some power to the tire with more
> traction
> when the rear tires have unequal traction. Otherwise, with an open
> differential, if you say had one rear tire on an ice patch, and one on dry
> pavement, an open differential will literally send all the power to the
> wheel
> with NO traction and you'll sit there spinning...
>
> However the Jeep Traklock is nothing to get too excited about. It's
> clutch-based and will wear out. But it'll last 60 or 80K miles and
> that's
> probably about when most people who buy new cars sell 'em anyway (wouldn't
> know
> <g>)...
>
> -jeff

Jerry Bransford

One thing a limited slip differential does 'not' do is shift power to one
side or the other. All it does is couple the spinning side to the
non-spinning side a little via its clutch pack so the resistance of the tire
with better traction allows more torque to be sent to both tires. Both
tires always, always, ALWAYS see exactly 50% of the torque sent to the rear
axle by the engine. It's just that when one tire starts spinning on an open
differential, the engine only sees the resistance of the spinning tire so it
develops very little torque and thus very little torque gets provided to the
tire that still has good traction. The more resistance the engine sees, the
more torque it develops... so when the LSD couples the spinning tire to the
tire that is not spinning, it sees more resistance and thus develops more
torque... which gives the tire with more traction more power so it gets you
going again. This is why stepping on the brakes a little when you're stuck,
or pulling the parking brake on a little if it's a rear tire that is
spinning, will often get you moving again since it provides more resistance
for the engine to work into which raises the amount of torque being sent to
both tires.

So when one tire is spinning, it's not that the differential is sending
"all" of the power to the spinning tire... it's really sending a 50:50 split
to both sides... but with one tire spinning, the engine sees so little
resistance that very little torque is developed and when that very little
torque is split 50:50 to both sides, the side with traction isn't getting
enough torque to move the vehicle... thus you're stuck.

The fact that both tires always see 50% of the 'available' torque, no matter
if it's equipped with a locker, LSD, or just an open axle is the hardest
thing for most people to understand. It's just how much torque is really
available to those tires that determine if you're going to be able to move
or not. :)

Jerry
--
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
"Handywired" <handywired@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040828033849.19087.00004249@mb-m06.aol.com...
>
>> Pricing out on edmunds my car. What exactly does the
>> limited
>>slip differential option do on a jeep, and is it preferable to have it?
>
> Yeah, it's a good thing. It shifts some power to the tire with more
> traction
> when the rear tires have unequal traction. Otherwise, with an open
> differential, if you say had one rear tire on an ice patch, and one on dry
> pavement, an open differential will literally send all the power to the
> wheel
> with NO traction and you'll sit there spinning...
>
> However the Jeep Traklock is nothing to get too excited about. It's
> clutch-based and will wear out. But it'll last 60 or 80K miles and
> that's
> probably about when most people who buy new cars sell 'em anyway (wouldn't
> know
> <g>)...
>
> -jeff

Stephen R. Conrad

Why doesn't the ABS see the spinning tire and try to slow it down by
applying that tire's brake?

"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:yQ2Yc.159033$sh.115904@fed1read06...
> One thing a limited slip differential does 'not' do is shift power to one
> side or the other. All it does is couple the spinning side to the
> non-spinning side a little via its clutch pack so the resistance of the
tire
> with better traction allows more torque to be sent to both tires. Both
> tires always, always, ALWAYS see exactly 50% of the torque sent to the
rear
> axle by the engine. It's just that when one tire starts spinning on an
open
> differential, the engine only sees the resistance of the spinning tire so
it
> develops very little torque and thus very little torque gets provided to
the
> tire that still has good traction. The more resistance the engine sees,
the
> more torque it develops... so when the LSD couples the spinning tire to
the
> tire that is not spinning, it sees more resistance and thus develops more
> torque... which gives the tire with more traction more power so it gets
you
> going again. This is why stepping on the brakes a little when you're
stuck,
> or pulling the parking brake on a little if it's a rear tire that is
> spinning, will often get you moving again since it provides more
resistance
> for the engine to work into which raises the amount of torque being sent
to
> both tires.
>
> So when one tire is spinning, it's not that the differential is sending
> "all" of the power to the spinning tire... it's really sending a 50:50
split
> to both sides... but with one tire spinning, the engine sees so little
> resistance that very little torque is developed and when that very little
> torque is split 50:50 to both sides, the side with traction isn't getting
> enough torque to move the vehicle... thus you're stuck.
>
> The fact that both tires always see 50% of the 'available' torque, no
matter
> if it's equipped with a locker, LSD, or just an open axle is the hardest
> thing for most people to understand. It's just how much torque is really
> available to those tires that determine if you're going to be able to move
> or not. :)
>
> Jerry
> --
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> "Handywired" <handywired@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040828033849.19087.00004249@mb-m06.aol.com...
> >
> >> Pricing out on edmunds my car. What exactly does the
> >> limited
> >>slip differential option do on a jeep, and is it preferable to have it?
> >
> > Yeah, it's a good thing. It shifts some power to the tire with more
> > traction
> > when the rear tires have unequal traction. Otherwise, with an open
> > differential, if you say had one rear tire on an ice patch, and one on
dry
> > pavement, an open differential will literally send all the power to the
> > wheel
> > with NO traction and you'll sit there spinning...
> >
> > However the Jeep Traklock is nothing to get too excited about. It's
> > clutch-based and will wear out. But it'll last 60 or 80K miles and
> > that's
> > probably about when most people who buy new cars sell 'em anyway
(wouldn't
> > know
> > <g>)...
> >
> > -jeff
>
>

Stephen R. Conrad

Why doesn't the ABS see the spinning tire and try to slow it down by
applying that tire's brake?

"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:yQ2Yc.159033$sh.115904@fed1read06...
> One thing a limited slip differential does 'not' do is shift power to one
> side or the other. All it does is couple the spinning side to the
> non-spinning side a little via its clutch pack so the resistance of the
tire
> with better traction allows more torque to be sent to both tires. Both
> tires always, always, ALWAYS see exactly 50% of the torque sent to the
rear
> axle by the engine. It's just that when one tire starts spinning on an
open
> differential, the engine only sees the resistance of the spinning tire so
it
> develops very little torque and thus very little torque gets provided to
the
> tire that still has good traction. The more resistance the engine sees,
the
> more torque it develops... so when the LSD couples the spinning tire to
the
> tire that is not spinning, it sees more resistance and thus develops more
> torque... which gives the tire with more traction more power so it gets
you
> going again. This is why stepping on the brakes a little when you're
stuck,
> or pulling the parking brake on a little if it's a rear tire that is
> spinning, will often get you moving again since it provides more
resistance
> for the engine to work into which raises the amount of torque being sent
to
> both tires.
>
> So when one tire is spinning, it's not that the differential is sending
> "all" of the power to the spinning tire... it's really sending a 50:50
split
> to both sides... but with one tire spinning, the engine sees so little
> resistance that very little torque is developed and when that very little
> torque is split 50:50 to both sides, the side with traction isn't getting
> enough torque to move the vehicle... thus you're stuck.
>
> The fact that both tires always see 50% of the 'available' torque, no
matter
> if it's equipped with a locker, LSD, or just an open axle is the hardest
> thing for most people to understand. It's just how much torque is really
> available to those tires that determine if you're going to be able to move
> or not. :)
>
> Jerry
> --
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> "Handywired" <handywired@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040828033849.19087.00004249@mb-m06.aol.com...
> >
> >> Pricing out on edmunds my car. What exactly does the
> >> limited
> >>slip differential option do on a jeep, and is it preferable to have it?
> >
> > Yeah, it's a good thing. It shifts some power to the tire with more
> > traction
> > when the rear tires have unequal traction. Otherwise, with an open
> > differential, if you say had one rear tire on an ice patch, and one on
dry
> > pavement, an open differential will literally send all the power to the
> > wheel
> > with NO traction and you'll sit there spinning...
> >
> > However the Jeep Traklock is nothing to get too excited about. It's
> > clutch-based and will wear out. But it'll last 60 or 80K miles and
> > that's
> > probably about when most people who buy new cars sell 'em anyway
(wouldn't
> > know
> > <g>)...
> >
> > -jeff
>
>

Stephen R. Conrad

Why doesn't the ABS see the spinning tire and try to slow it down by
applying that tire's brake?

"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:yQ2Yc.159033$sh.115904@fed1read06...
> One thing a limited slip differential does 'not' do is shift power to one
> side or the other. All it does is couple the spinning side to the
> non-spinning side a little via its clutch pack so the resistance of the
tire
> with better traction allows more torque to be sent to both tires. Both
> tires always, always, ALWAYS see exactly 50% of the torque sent to the
rear
> axle by the engine. It's just that when one tire starts spinning on an
open
> differential, the engine only sees the resistance of the spinning tire so
it
> develops very little torque and thus very little torque gets provided to
the
> tire that still has good traction. The more resistance the engine sees,
the
> more torque it develops... so when the LSD couples the spinning tire to
the
> tire that is not spinning, it sees more resistance and thus develops more
> torque... which gives the tire with more traction more power so it gets
you
> going again. This is why stepping on the brakes a little when you're
stuck,
> or pulling the parking brake on a little if it's a rear tire that is
> spinning, will often get you moving again since it provides more
resistance
> for the engine to work into which raises the amount of torque being sent
to
> both tires.
>
> So when one tire is spinning, it's not that the differential is sending
> "all" of the power to the spinning tire... it's really sending a 50:50
split
> to both sides... but with one tire spinning, the engine sees so little
> resistance that very little torque is developed and when that very little
> torque is split 50:50 to both sides, the side with traction isn't getting
> enough torque to move the vehicle... thus you're stuck.
>
> The fact that both tires always see 50% of the 'available' torque, no
matter
> if it's equipped with a locker, LSD, or just an open axle is the hardest
> thing for most people to understand. It's just how much torque is really
> available to those tires that determine if you're going to be able to move
> or not. :)
>
> Jerry
> --
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> "Handywired" <handywired@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040828033849.19087.00004249@mb-m06.aol.com...
> >
> >> Pricing out on edmunds my car. What exactly does the
> >> limited
> >>slip differential option do on a jeep, and is it preferable to have it?
> >
> > Yeah, it's a good thing. It shifts some power to the tire with more
> > traction
> > when the rear tires have unequal traction. Otherwise, with an open
> > differential, if you say had one rear tire on an ice patch, and one on
dry
> > pavement, an open differential will literally send all the power to the
> > wheel
> > with NO traction and you'll sit there spinning...
> >
> > However the Jeep Traklock is nothing to get too excited about. It's
> > clutch-based and will wear out. But it'll last 60 or 80K miles and
> > that's
> > probably about when most people who buy new cars sell 'em anyway
(wouldn't
> > know
> > <g>)...
> >
> > -jeff
>
>

Jo Bo

"Stephen R. Conrad" <sconrad@telecommunity.to> wrote in message
news:2ronnfF1cpl9sU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Why doesn't the ABS see the spinning tire and try to slow it down by
> applying that tire's brake?

That would be "traction control".

JoBo

> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:yQ2Yc.159033$sh.115904@fed1read06...
> > One thing a limited slip differential does 'not' do is shift power to
one
> > side or the other. All it does is couple the spinning side to the
> > non-spinning side a little via its clutch pack so the resistance of the
> tire
> > with better traction allows more torque to be sent to both tires. Both
> > tires always, always, ALWAYS see exactly 50% of the torque sent to the
> rear
> > axle by the engine. It's just that when one tire starts spinning on an
> open
> > differential, the engine only sees the resistance of the spinning tire
so
> it
> > develops very little torque and thus very little torque gets provided to
> the
> > tire that still has good traction. The more resistance the engine sees,
> the
> > more torque it develops... so when the LSD couples the spinning tire to
> the
> > tire that is not spinning, it sees more resistance and thus develops
more
> > torque... which gives the tire with more traction more power so it gets
> you
> > going again. This is why stepping on the brakes a little when you're
> stuck,
> > or pulling the parking brake on a little if it's a rear tire that is
> > spinning, will often get you moving again since it provides more
> resistance
> > for the engine to work into which raises the amount of torque being sent
> to
> > both tires.
> >
> > So when one tire is spinning, it's not that the differential is sending
> > "all" of the power to the spinning tire... it's really sending a 50:50
> split
> > to both sides... but with one tire spinning, the engine sees so little
> > resistance that very little torque is developed and when that very
little
> > torque is split 50:50 to both sides, the side with traction isn't
getting
> > enough torque to move the vehicle... thus you're stuck.
> >
> > The fact that both tires always see 50% of the 'available' torque, no
> matter
> > if it's equipped with a locker, LSD, or just an open axle is the hardest
> > thing for most people to understand. It's just how much torque is
really
> > available to those tires that determine if you're going to be able to
move
> > or not. :)
> >
> > Jerry
> > --
> > --
> > Jerry Bransford
> > PP-ASEL N6TAY
> > See the Geezer Jeep at
> > http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> > "Handywired" <handywired@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20040828033849.19087.00004249@mb-m06.aol.com...
> > >
> > >> Pricing out on edmunds my car. What exactly does the
> > >> limited
> > >>slip differential option do on a jeep, and is it preferable to have
it?
> > >
> > > Yeah, it's a good thing. It shifts some power to the tire with more
> > > traction
> > > when the rear tires have unequal traction. Otherwise, with an open
> > > differential, if you say had one rear tire on an ice patch, and one on
> dry
> > > pavement, an open differential will literally send all the power to
the
> > > wheel
> > > with NO traction and you'll sit there spinning...
> > >
> > > However the Jeep Traklock is nothing to get too excited about. It's
> > > clutch-based and will wear out. But it'll last 60 or 80K miles and
> > > that's
> > > probably about when most people who buy new cars sell 'em anyway
> (wouldn't
> > > know
> > > <g>)...
> > >
> > > -jeff
> >
> >
>
>