Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

A little off topic, my 97 Chevy Astro 2WD.
Took the van in for front brakes... why not do it yourself you ask?

Well, 60k ago it was in for warranty work and I also needed pads. Turns out
the Delco pads have a lifetime warranty, cool. They called a few hours later
and said I needed new shoes (soon) as well - I said not to bother, I'll do
it myself.

The following weekend I took the rear wheels off to see how soon I would
need shoes... hmm, that's odd, they replaced them! I guess they 'assumed' I
would want them done while it was in the shop and went ahead with it, and
then called. I wasn't charged for the rears - their loss.

So, 60k later the pads are squealing and I have a clunk in the front end - I
thought it was one of the idler arms. A couple hours later they call and
tell me I need:

(Canadian Funds)
Front pads = Free + labour
Rear shoes = They're fine
2 rotors = $240.00
2 idler arms = $720.00 + 1.2 hrs labour ($111.00)

Fortunately, I work nights and was in bed when they called so when my knees
buckled I was fine. I told them to install pads only. I haven't checked the
rotors yet but there were no vibes and have only been turned once - before I
call BS on them, I will inspect and measure them myself.

On the way home I stopped into another GM dealer a mile away and was quoted
$362 for the arms.

When I got home I called the jobbers:
Napa: $281 for Dana / $93 for 'white box'
PartSource: $240 for TRW / $96 for 'white box'

Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white box'?
I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in stock and I
like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool program.

-Brian

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Hi Brian,
Interesting, I grew up in a day when the idler arm held the
passenger side of the drag link:
http://www.falconparts.com/1963-1964...IDLER+ARM.html Now
some college grand calls the "A" member that:
http://www.----------.com/idlerArm.jpg and forces you to replace the
whole thing rather than what's wrong like just the ball joint or
bushings. If any of those parts are bad, you'll to fix it.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

Cherokee-LTD wrote:
>
> A little off topic, my 97 Chevy Astro 2WD.
> Took the van in for front brakes... why not do it yourself you ask?
>
> Well, 60k ago it was in for warranty work and I also needed pads. Turns out
> the Delco pads have a lifetime warranty, cool. They called a few hours later
> and said I needed new shoes (soon) as well - I said not to bother, I'll do
> it myself.
>
> The following weekend I took the rear wheels off to see how soon I would
> need shoes... hmm, that's odd, they replaced them! I guess they 'assumed' I
> would want them done while it was in the shop and went ahead with it, and
> then called. I wasn't charged for the rears - their loss.
>
> So, 60k later the pads are squealing and I have a clunk in the front end - I
> thought it was one of the idler arms. A couple hours later they call and
> tell me I need:
>
> (Canadian Funds)
> Front pads = Free + labour
> Rear shoes = They're fine
> 2 rotors = $240.00
> 2 idler arms = $720.00 + 1.2 hrs labour ($111.00)
>
> Fortunately, I work nights and was in bed when they called so when my knees
> buckled I was fine. I told them to install pads only. I haven't checked the
> rotors yet but there were no vibes and have only been turned once - before I
> call BS on them, I will inspect and measure them myself.
>
> On the way home I stopped into another GM dealer a mile away and was quoted
> $362 for the arms.
>
> When I got home I called the jobbers:
> Napa: $281 for Dana / $93 for 'white box'
> PartSource: $240 for TRW / $96 for 'white box'
>
> Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white box'?
> I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in stock and I
> like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool program.
>
> -Brian

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Hi Brian,
Interesting, I grew up in a day when the idler arm held the
passenger side of the drag link:
http://www.falconparts.com/1963-1964...IDLER+ARM.html Now
some college grand calls the "A" member that:
http://www.----------.com/idlerArm.jpg and forces you to replace the
whole thing rather than what's wrong like just the ball joint or
bushings. If any of those parts are bad, you'll to fix it.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

Cherokee-LTD wrote:
>
> A little off topic, my 97 Chevy Astro 2WD.
> Took the van in for front brakes... why not do it yourself you ask?
>
> Well, 60k ago it was in for warranty work and I also needed pads. Turns out
> the Delco pads have a lifetime warranty, cool. They called a few hours later
> and said I needed new shoes (soon) as well - I said not to bother, I'll do
> it myself.
>
> The following weekend I took the rear wheels off to see how soon I would
> need shoes... hmm, that's odd, they replaced them! I guess they 'assumed' I
> would want them done while it was in the shop and went ahead with it, and
> then called. I wasn't charged for the rears - their loss.
>
> So, 60k later the pads are squealing and I have a clunk in the front end - I
> thought it was one of the idler arms. A couple hours later they call and
> tell me I need:
>
> (Canadian Funds)
> Front pads = Free + labour
> Rear shoes = They're fine
> 2 rotors = $240.00
> 2 idler arms = $720.00 + 1.2 hrs labour ($111.00)
>
> Fortunately, I work nights and was in bed when they called so when my knees
> buckled I was fine. I told them to install pads only. I haven't checked the
> rotors yet but there were no vibes and have only been turned once - before I
> call BS on them, I will inspect and measure them myself.
>
> On the way home I stopped into another GM dealer a mile away and was quoted
> $362 for the arms.
>
> When I got home I called the jobbers:
> Napa: $281 for Dana / $93 for 'white box'
> PartSource: $240 for TRW / $96 for 'white box'
>
> Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white box'?
> I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in stock and I
> like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool program.
>
> -Brian

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Hi Brian,
Interesting, I grew up in a day when the idler arm held the
passenger side of the drag link:
http://www.falconparts.com/1963-1964...IDLER+ARM.html Now
some college grand calls the "A" member that:
http://www.----------.com/idlerArm.jpg and forces you to replace the
whole thing rather than what's wrong like just the ball joint or
bushings. If any of those parts are bad, you'll to fix it.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

Cherokee-LTD wrote:
>
> A little off topic, my 97 Chevy Astro 2WD.
> Took the van in for front brakes... why not do it yourself you ask?
>
> Well, 60k ago it was in for warranty work and I also needed pads. Turns out
> the Delco pads have a lifetime warranty, cool. They called a few hours later
> and said I needed new shoes (soon) as well - I said not to bother, I'll do
> it myself.
>
> The following weekend I took the rear wheels off to see how soon I would
> need shoes... hmm, that's odd, they replaced them! I guess they 'assumed' I
> would want them done while it was in the shop and went ahead with it, and
> then called. I wasn't charged for the rears - their loss.
>
> So, 60k later the pads are squealing and I have a clunk in the front end - I
> thought it was one of the idler arms. A couple hours later they call and
> tell me I need:
>
> (Canadian Funds)
> Front pads = Free + labour
> Rear shoes = They're fine
> 2 rotors = $240.00
> 2 idler arms = $720.00 + 1.2 hrs labour ($111.00)
>
> Fortunately, I work nights and was in bed when they called so when my knees
> buckled I was fine. I told them to install pads only. I haven't checked the
> rotors yet but there were no vibes and have only been turned once - before I
> call BS on them, I will inspect and measure them myself.
>
> On the way home I stopped into another GM dealer a mile away and was quoted
> $362 for the arms.
>
> When I got home I called the jobbers:
> Napa: $281 for Dana / $93 for 'white box'
> PartSource: $240 for TRW / $96 for 'white box'
>
> Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white box'?
> I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in stock and I
> like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool program.
>
> -Brian

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Hi Brian,
Interesting, I grew up in a day when the idler arm held the
passenger side of the drag link:
http://www.falconparts.com/1963-1964...IDLER+ARM.html Now
some college grand calls the "A" member that:
http://www.----------.com/idlerArm.jpg and forces you to replace the
whole thing rather than what's wrong like just the ball joint or
bushings. If any of those parts are bad, you'll to fix it.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

Cherokee-LTD wrote:
>
> A little off topic, my 97 Chevy Astro 2WD.
> Took the van in for front brakes... why not do it yourself you ask?
>
> Well, 60k ago it was in for warranty work and I also needed pads. Turns out
> the Delco pads have a lifetime warranty, cool. They called a few hours later
> and said I needed new shoes (soon) as well - I said not to bother, I'll do
> it myself.
>
> The following weekend I took the rear wheels off to see how soon I would
> need shoes... hmm, that's odd, they replaced them! I guess they 'assumed' I
> would want them done while it was in the shop and went ahead with it, and
> then called. I wasn't charged for the rears - their loss.
>
> So, 60k later the pads are squealing and I have a clunk in the front end - I
> thought it was one of the idler arms. A couple hours later they call and
> tell me I need:
>
> (Canadian Funds)
> Front pads = Free + labour
> Rear shoes = They're fine
> 2 rotors = $240.00
> 2 idler arms = $720.00 + 1.2 hrs labour ($111.00)
>
> Fortunately, I work nights and was in bed when they called so when my knees
> buckled I was fine. I told them to install pads only. I haven't checked the
> rotors yet but there were no vibes and have only been turned once - before I
> call BS on them, I will inspect and measure them myself.
>
> On the way home I stopped into another GM dealer a mile away and was quoted
> $362 for the arms.
>
> When I got home I called the jobbers:
> Napa: $281 for Dana / $93 for 'white box'
> PartSource: $240 for TRW / $96 for 'white box'
>
> Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white box'?
> I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in stock and I
> like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool program.
>
> -Brian

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com> Cherokee-
LTD wrote:

> Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
> box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
> stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
> program.

GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement arms,
even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com> Cherokee-
LTD wrote:

> Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
> box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
> stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
> program.

GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement arms,
even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com> Cherokee-
LTD wrote:

> Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
> box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
> stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
> program.

GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement arms,
even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com> Cherokee-
LTD wrote:

> Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
> box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
> stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
> program.

GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement arms,
even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Here's an article from The Car Connection, the resident mechanic is
noticing huge increases in prices. Seems like the manufacturers found a
way to offset the cost of all of the rebates and low finance rates.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=281&n=158

Mort

Del Rawlins wrote:
> In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com> Cherokee-
> LTD wrote:
>
>
>>Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
>>box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
>>stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
>>program.
>
>
> GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement arms,
> even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
> joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Here's an article from The Car Connection, the resident mechanic is
noticing huge increases in prices. Seems like the manufacturers found a
way to offset the cost of all of the rebates and low finance rates.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=281&n=158

Mort

Del Rawlins wrote:
> In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com> Cherokee-
> LTD wrote:
>
>
>>Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
>>box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
>>stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
>>program.
>
>
> GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement arms,
> even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
> joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Here's an article from The Car Connection, the resident mechanic is
noticing huge increases in prices. Seems like the manufacturers found a
way to offset the cost of all of the rebates and low finance rates.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=281&n=158

Mort

Del Rawlins wrote:
> In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com> Cherokee-
> LTD wrote:
>
>
>>Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
>>box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
>>stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
>>program.
>
>
> GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement arms,
> even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
> joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Here's an article from The Car Connection, the resident mechanic is
noticing huge increases in prices. Seems like the manufacturers found a
way to offset the cost of all of the rebates and low finance rates.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=281&n=158

Mort

Del Rawlins wrote:
> In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com> Cherokee-
> LTD wrote:
>
>
>>Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
>>box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
>>stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
>>program.
>
>
> GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement arms,
> even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
> joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Astro vans use two idler arms, it is a unique steering setup, and no, the
idler arms aren't very good. Go with the Moog, like the other guy
suggested. If you are handy, you can install them yourself.

I work for a GM dealer, and parts prices are out of control. Dealerships
aren't the root of this evil, we are just passing the savings along. Just
today, the owner of a 2002 Chevy truck brought it to me because of some
brake concerns. What he needed was four new rotors, due to corrosion and
flaking of the brake surface. Total cost of parts alone: $1086. I can
think of no reason to charge over $400 apiece for rear brake rotors, but
hey, I am not the union-controlled manufacturer of said parts.

The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
You decide.

Jerry


"Mort" <jmorton@on.aibn.nospamcom> wrote in message
news:ccfoc.65$_V4.3@read1.cgocable.net...
> Here's an article from The Car Connection, the resident mechanic is
> noticing huge increases in prices. Seems like the manufacturers found a
> way to offset the cost of all of the rebates and low finance rates.
>
> http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=281&n=158
>
> Mort
>
> Del Rawlins wrote:
> > In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com> Cherokee-
> > LTD wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
> >>box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
> >>stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
> >>program.
> >
> >
> > GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement arms,
> > even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
> > joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
>

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Astro vans use two idler arms, it is a unique steering setup, and no, the
idler arms aren't very good. Go with the Moog, like the other guy
suggested. If you are handy, you can install them yourself.

I work for a GM dealer, and parts prices are out of control. Dealerships
aren't the root of this evil, we are just passing the savings along. Just
today, the owner of a 2002 Chevy truck brought it to me because of some
brake concerns. What he needed was four new rotors, due to corrosion and
flaking of the brake surface. Total cost of parts alone: $1086. I can
think of no reason to charge over $400 apiece for rear brake rotors, but
hey, I am not the union-controlled manufacturer of said parts.

The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
You decide.

Jerry


"Mort" <jmorton@on.aibn.nospamcom> wrote in message
news:ccfoc.65$_V4.3@read1.cgocable.net...
> Here's an article from The Car Connection, the resident mechanic is
> noticing huge increases in prices. Seems like the manufacturers found a
> way to offset the cost of all of the rebates and low finance rates.
>
> http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=281&n=158
>
> Mort
>
> Del Rawlins wrote:
> > In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com> Cherokee-
> > LTD wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
> >>box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
> >>stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
> >>program.
> >
> >
> > GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement arms,
> > even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
> > joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
>

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Astro vans use two idler arms, it is a unique steering setup, and no, the
idler arms aren't very good. Go with the Moog, like the other guy
suggested. If you are handy, you can install them yourself.

I work for a GM dealer, and parts prices are out of control. Dealerships
aren't the root of this evil, we are just passing the savings along. Just
today, the owner of a 2002 Chevy truck brought it to me because of some
brake concerns. What he needed was four new rotors, due to corrosion and
flaking of the brake surface. Total cost of parts alone: $1086. I can
think of no reason to charge over $400 apiece for rear brake rotors, but
hey, I am not the union-controlled manufacturer of said parts.

The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
You decide.

Jerry


"Mort" <jmorton@on.aibn.nospamcom> wrote in message
news:ccfoc.65$_V4.3@read1.cgocable.net...
> Here's an article from The Car Connection, the resident mechanic is
> noticing huge increases in prices. Seems like the manufacturers found a
> way to offset the cost of all of the rebates and low finance rates.
>
> http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=281&n=158
>
> Mort
>
> Del Rawlins wrote:
> > In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com> Cherokee-
> > LTD wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
> >>box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
> >>stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
> >>program.
> >
> >
> > GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement arms,
> > even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
> > joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
>

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Astro vans use two idler arms, it is a unique steering setup, and no, the
idler arms aren't very good. Go with the Moog, like the other guy
suggested. If you are handy, you can install them yourself.

I work for a GM dealer, and parts prices are out of control. Dealerships
aren't the root of this evil, we are just passing the savings along. Just
today, the owner of a 2002 Chevy truck brought it to me because of some
brake concerns. What he needed was four new rotors, due to corrosion and
flaking of the brake surface. Total cost of parts alone: $1086. I can
think of no reason to charge over $400 apiece for rear brake rotors, but
hey, I am not the union-controlled manufacturer of said parts.

The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
You decide.

Jerry


"Mort" <jmorton@on.aibn.nospamcom> wrote in message
news:ccfoc.65$_V4.3@read1.cgocable.net...
> Here's an article from The Car Connection, the resident mechanic is
> noticing huge increases in prices. Seems like the manufacturers found a
> way to offset the cost of all of the rebates and low finance rates.
>
> http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=281&n=158
>
> Mort
>
> Del Rawlins wrote:
> > In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com> Cherokee-
> > LTD wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
> >>box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
> >>stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
> >>program.
> >
> >
> > GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement arms,
> > even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
> > joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
>

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:18:08 UTC "Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net>
wrote:

> The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
> aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
> fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
> You decide.

Hmmm... My conscience has a very tenuous connection to my wallet these
days.

--
Will Honea

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:18:08 UTC "Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net>
wrote:

> The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
> aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
> fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
> You decide.

Hmmm... My conscience has a very tenuous connection to my wallet these
days.

--
Will Honea

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:18:08 UTC "Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net>
wrote:

> The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
> aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
> fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
> You decide.

Hmmm... My conscience has a very tenuous connection to my wallet these
days.

--
Will Honea

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:18:08 UTC "Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net>
wrote:

> The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
> aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
> fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
> You decide.

Hmmm... My conscience has a very tenuous connection to my wallet these
days.

--
Will Honea

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

"Cherokee-LTD" <spammenot@home.com> wrote in message news:<N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cab le.rogers.com>...
> A little off topic, my 97 Chevy Astro 2WD.
> Took the van in for front brakes... why not do it yourself you ask?
>
> Well, 60k ago it was in for warranty work and I also needed pads. Turns out
> the Delco pads have a lifetime warranty, cool. They called a few hours later
> and said I needed new shoes (soon) as well - I said not to bother, I'll do
> it myself.
>
> The following weekend I took the rear wheels off to see how soon I would
> need shoes... hmm, that's odd, they replaced them! I guess they 'assumed' I
> would want them done while it was in the shop and went ahead with it, and
> then called. I wasn't charged for the rears - their loss.
>
> So, 60k later the pads are squealing and I have a clunk in the front end - I
> thought it was one of the idler arms. A couple hours later they call and
> tell me I need:
>
> (Canadian Funds)
> Front pads = Free + labour
> Rear shoes = They're fine
> 2 rotors = $240.00
> 2 idler arms = $720.00 + 1.2 hrs labour ($111.00)
>
> Fortunately, I work nights and was in bed when they called so when my knees
> buckled I was fine. I told them to install pads only. I haven't checked the
> rotors yet but there were no vibes and have only been turned once - before I
> call BS on them, I will inspect and measure them myself.
>
> On the way home I stopped into another GM dealer a mile away and was quoted
> $362 for the arms.
>
> When I got home I called the jobbers:
> Napa: $281 for Dana / $93 for 'white box'
> PartSource: $240 for TRW / $96 for 'white box'
>
> Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white box'?
> I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in stock and I
> like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool program.
>
> -Brian

Here's my theory. The 'lifetime warranty' brake pads are made to last
a long time so they are made much harder than 'regular' pads. Being
harder, they wear out your rotors much faster. You end up spending
more $$$ on new rotors. Stick to the less expensive pads which are
intended to wear out and be replaced every 50,000 miles or so. They
are intended to be the expendable parts.
Just my $.02.
TrailMarker.

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

"Cherokee-LTD" <spammenot@home.com> wrote in message news:<N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cab le.rogers.com>...
> A little off topic, my 97 Chevy Astro 2WD.
> Took the van in for front brakes... why not do it yourself you ask?
>
> Well, 60k ago it was in for warranty work and I also needed pads. Turns out
> the Delco pads have a lifetime warranty, cool. They called a few hours later
> and said I needed new shoes (soon) as well - I said not to bother, I'll do
> it myself.
>
> The following weekend I took the rear wheels off to see how soon I would
> need shoes... hmm, that's odd, they replaced them! I guess they 'assumed' I
> would want them done while it was in the shop and went ahead with it, and
> then called. I wasn't charged for the rears - their loss.
>
> So, 60k later the pads are squealing and I have a clunk in the front end - I
> thought it was one of the idler arms. A couple hours later they call and
> tell me I need:
>
> (Canadian Funds)
> Front pads = Free + labour
> Rear shoes = They're fine
> 2 rotors = $240.00
> 2 idler arms = $720.00 + 1.2 hrs labour ($111.00)
>
> Fortunately, I work nights and was in bed when they called so when my knees
> buckled I was fine. I told them to install pads only. I haven't checked the
> rotors yet but there were no vibes and have only been turned once - before I
> call BS on them, I will inspect and measure them myself.
>
> On the way home I stopped into another GM dealer a mile away and was quoted
> $362 for the arms.
>
> When I got home I called the jobbers:
> Napa: $281 for Dana / $93 for 'white box'
> PartSource: $240 for TRW / $96 for 'white box'
>
> Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white box'?
> I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in stock and I
> like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool program.
>
> -Brian

Here's my theory. The 'lifetime warranty' brake pads are made to last
a long time so they are made much harder than 'regular' pads. Being
harder, they wear out your rotors much faster. You end up spending
more $$$ on new rotors. Stick to the less expensive pads which are
intended to wear out and be replaced every 50,000 miles or so. They
are intended to be the expendable parts.
Just my $.02.
TrailMarker.

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

"Cherokee-LTD" <spammenot@home.com> wrote in message news:<N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cab le.rogers.com>...
> A little off topic, my 97 Chevy Astro 2WD.
> Took the van in for front brakes... why not do it yourself you ask?
>
> Well, 60k ago it was in for warranty work and I also needed pads. Turns out
> the Delco pads have a lifetime warranty, cool. They called a few hours later
> and said I needed new shoes (soon) as well - I said not to bother, I'll do
> it myself.
>
> The following weekend I took the rear wheels off to see how soon I would
> need shoes... hmm, that's odd, they replaced them! I guess they 'assumed' I
> would want them done while it was in the shop and went ahead with it, and
> then called. I wasn't charged for the rears - their loss.
>
> So, 60k later the pads are squealing and I have a clunk in the front end - I
> thought it was one of the idler arms. A couple hours later they call and
> tell me I need:
>
> (Canadian Funds)
> Front pads = Free + labour
> Rear shoes = They're fine
> 2 rotors = $240.00
> 2 idler arms = $720.00 + 1.2 hrs labour ($111.00)
>
> Fortunately, I work nights and was in bed when they called so when my knees
> buckled I was fine. I told them to install pads only. I haven't checked the
> rotors yet but there were no vibes and have only been turned once - before I
> call BS on them, I will inspect and measure them myself.
>
> On the way home I stopped into another GM dealer a mile away and was quoted
> $362 for the arms.
>
> When I got home I called the jobbers:
> Napa: $281 for Dana / $93 for 'white box'
> PartSource: $240 for TRW / $96 for 'white box'
>
> Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white box'?
> I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in stock and I
> like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool program.
>
> -Brian

Here's my theory. The 'lifetime warranty' brake pads are made to last
a long time so they are made much harder than 'regular' pads. Being
harder, they wear out your rotors much faster. You end up spending
more $$$ on new rotors. Stick to the less expensive pads which are
intended to wear out and be replaced every 50,000 miles or so. They
are intended to be the expendable parts.
Just my $.02.
TrailMarker.

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

"Cherokee-LTD" <spammenot@home.com> wrote in message news:<N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cab le.rogers.com>...
> A little off topic, my 97 Chevy Astro 2WD.
> Took the van in for front brakes... why not do it yourself you ask?
>
> Well, 60k ago it was in for warranty work and I also needed pads. Turns out
> the Delco pads have a lifetime warranty, cool. They called a few hours later
> and said I needed new shoes (soon) as well - I said not to bother, I'll do
> it myself.
>
> The following weekend I took the rear wheels off to see how soon I would
> need shoes... hmm, that's odd, they replaced them! I guess they 'assumed' I
> would want them done while it was in the shop and went ahead with it, and
> then called. I wasn't charged for the rears - their loss.
>
> So, 60k later the pads are squealing and I have a clunk in the front end - I
> thought it was one of the idler arms. A couple hours later they call and
> tell me I need:
>
> (Canadian Funds)
> Front pads = Free + labour
> Rear shoes = They're fine
> 2 rotors = $240.00
> 2 idler arms = $720.00 + 1.2 hrs labour ($111.00)
>
> Fortunately, I work nights and was in bed when they called so when my knees
> buckled I was fine. I told them to install pads only. I haven't checked the
> rotors yet but there were no vibes and have only been turned once - before I
> call BS on them, I will inspect and measure them myself.
>
> On the way home I stopped into another GM dealer a mile away and was quoted
> $362 for the arms.
>
> When I got home I called the jobbers:
> Napa: $281 for Dana / $93 for 'white box'
> PartSource: $240 for TRW / $96 for 'white box'
>
> Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white box'?
> I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in stock and I
> like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool program.
>
> -Brian

Here's my theory. The 'lifetime warranty' brake pads are made to last
a long time so they are made much harder than 'regular' pads. Being
harder, they wear out your rotors much faster. You end up spending
more $$$ on new rotors. Stick to the less expensive pads which are
intended to wear out and be replaced every 50,000 miles or so. They
are intended to be the expendable parts.
Just my $.02.
TrailMarker.

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

"TrailMarker" <carrollcaboodle@netzero.com> wrote in message
:
: Here's my theory. The 'lifetime warranty' brake pads are made to last
: a long time so they are made much harder than 'regular' pads. Being
: harder, they wear out your rotors much faster. You end up spending
: more $$$ on new rotors. Stick to the less expensive pads which are
: intended to wear out and be replaced every 50,000 miles or so. They
: are intended to be the expendable parts.
: Just my $.02.
: TrailMarker.

I get your point but these pads only had about 35,000 miles (60,000 Kms). On
visual inspection the rotors looked fine but the micrometer will tell the
tale.
-Brian

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

"TrailMarker" <carrollcaboodle@netzero.com> wrote in message
:
: Here's my theory. The 'lifetime warranty' brake pads are made to last
: a long time so they are made much harder than 'regular' pads. Being
: harder, they wear out your rotors much faster. You end up spending
: more $$$ on new rotors. Stick to the less expensive pads which are
: intended to wear out and be replaced every 50,000 miles or so. They
: are intended to be the expendable parts.
: Just my $.02.
: TrailMarker.

I get your point but these pads only had about 35,000 miles (60,000 Kms). On
visual inspection the rotors looked fine but the micrometer will tell the
tale.
-Brian

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

"TrailMarker" <carrollcaboodle@netzero.com> wrote in message
:
: Here's my theory. The 'lifetime warranty' brake pads are made to last
: a long time so they are made much harder than 'regular' pads. Being
: harder, they wear out your rotors much faster. You end up spending
: more $$$ on new rotors. Stick to the less expensive pads which are
: intended to wear out and be replaced every 50,000 miles or so. They
: are intended to be the expendable parts.
: Just my $.02.
: TrailMarker.

I get your point but these pads only had about 35,000 miles (60,000 Kms). On
visual inspection the rotors looked fine but the micrometer will tell the
tale.
-Brian

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

"TrailMarker" <carrollcaboodle@netzero.com> wrote in message
:
: Here's my theory. The 'lifetime warranty' brake pads are made to last
: a long time so they are made much harder than 'regular' pads. Being
: harder, they wear out your rotors much faster. You end up spending
: more $$$ on new rotors. Stick to the less expensive pads which are
: intended to wear out and be replaced every 50,000 miles or so. They
: are intended to be the expendable parts.
: Just my $.02.
: TrailMarker.

I get your point but these pads only had about 35,000 miles (60,000 Kms). On
visual inspection the rotors looked fine but the micrometer will tell the
tale.
-Brian

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

"Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net> wrote in message
:
: The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
: aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
: fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
: You decide.
:
They've always done a nice job on my Nikes.
-Brian

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

"Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net> wrote in message
:
: The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
: aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
: fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
: You decide.
:
They've always done a nice job on my Nikes.
-Brian

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

"Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net> wrote in message
:
: The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
: aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
: fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
: You decide.
:
They've always done a nice job on my Nikes.
-Brian

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

"Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net> wrote in message
:
: The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
: aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
: fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
: You decide.
:
They've always done a nice job on my Nikes.
-Brian

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Jerry; Do you always have a cynical point of view. GM does not have
wonderful little elves making there brake rotors or any other of there parts
either . Who makes the parts for GM? Your complaining about how the
customer is being ripped off at your dealership and then stating that it's
just tough ---- and you need to support the world of retired and future GM
employees. It sounds like to me that GM supported the forced child labor
companies and put on ---- rotors in the beginning. Auto manufactures
have been out sourcing parts for years. I'll buy from a union man or woman
every time if possible. Now lets see how much is the dealer paying for his
parts and how much is he marking them up to pay for your wages and putting
the remainder of the 200% in his fat little picket. What does your father
own the dealership? Get real

--
CJ & XJ JIMMIE VP.of The North Iowa Off-road Club
"Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net> wrote in message
news:40a188cb_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> Astro vans use two idler arms, it is a unique steering setup, and no, the
> idler arms aren't very good. Go with the Moog, like the other guy
> suggested. If you are handy, you can install them yourself.
>
> I work for a GM dealer, and parts prices are out of control. Dealerships
> aren't the root of this evil, we are just passing the savings along. Just
> today, the owner of a 2002 Chevy truck brought it to me because of some
> brake concerns. What he needed was four new rotors, due to corrosion and
> flaking of the brake surface. Total cost of parts alone: $1086. I can
> think of no reason to charge over $400 apiece for rear brake rotors, but
> hey, I am not the union-controlled manufacturer of said parts.
>
> The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
> aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
> fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
> You decide.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> "Mort" <jmorton@on.aibn.nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:ccfoc.65$_V4.3@read1.cgocable.net...
> > Here's an article from The Car Connection, the resident mechanic is
> > noticing huge increases in prices. Seems like the manufacturers found a
> > way to offset the cost of all of the rebates and low finance rates.
> >
> > http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=281&n=158
> >
> > Mort
> >
> > Del Rawlins wrote:
> > > In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com>
Cherokee-
> > > LTD wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
> > >>box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
> > >>stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
> > >>program.
> > >
> > >
> > > GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement
arms,
> > > even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
> > > joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------
> > > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> > > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> > > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> > > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
> >
>
>
>

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Jerry; Do you always have a cynical point of view. GM does not have
wonderful little elves making there brake rotors or any other of there parts
either . Who makes the parts for GM? Your complaining about how the
customer is being ripped off at your dealership and then stating that it's
just tough ---- and you need to support the world of retired and future GM
employees. It sounds like to me that GM supported the forced child labor
companies and put on ---- rotors in the beginning. Auto manufactures
have been out sourcing parts for years. I'll buy from a union man or woman
every time if possible. Now lets see how much is the dealer paying for his
parts and how much is he marking them up to pay for your wages and putting
the remainder of the 200% in his fat little picket. What does your father
own the dealership? Get real

--
CJ & XJ JIMMIE VP.of The North Iowa Off-road Club
"Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net> wrote in message
news:40a188cb_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> Astro vans use two idler arms, it is a unique steering setup, and no, the
> idler arms aren't very good. Go with the Moog, like the other guy
> suggested. If you are handy, you can install them yourself.
>
> I work for a GM dealer, and parts prices are out of control. Dealerships
> aren't the root of this evil, we are just passing the savings along. Just
> today, the owner of a 2002 Chevy truck brought it to me because of some
> brake concerns. What he needed was four new rotors, due to corrosion and
> flaking of the brake surface. Total cost of parts alone: $1086. I can
> think of no reason to charge over $400 apiece for rear brake rotors, but
> hey, I am not the union-controlled manufacturer of said parts.
>
> The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
> aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
> fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
> You decide.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> "Mort" <jmorton@on.aibn.nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:ccfoc.65$_V4.3@read1.cgocable.net...
> > Here's an article from The Car Connection, the resident mechanic is
> > noticing huge increases in prices. Seems like the manufacturers found a
> > way to offset the cost of all of the rebates and low finance rates.
> >
> > http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=281&n=158
> >
> > Mort
> >
> > Del Rawlins wrote:
> > > In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com>
Cherokee-
> > > LTD wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
> > >>box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
> > >>stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
> > >>program.
> > >
> > >
> > > GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement
arms,
> > > even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
> > > joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------
> > > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> > > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> > > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> > > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
> >
>
>
>

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Jerry; Do you always have a cynical point of view. GM does not have
wonderful little elves making there brake rotors or any other of there parts
either . Who makes the parts for GM? Your complaining about how the
customer is being ripped off at your dealership and then stating that it's
just tough ---- and you need to support the world of retired and future GM
employees. It sounds like to me that GM supported the forced child labor
companies and put on ---- rotors in the beginning. Auto manufactures
have been out sourcing parts for years. I'll buy from a union man or woman
every time if possible. Now lets see how much is the dealer paying for his
parts and how much is he marking them up to pay for your wages and putting
the remainder of the 200% in his fat little picket. What does your father
own the dealership? Get real

--
CJ & XJ JIMMIE VP.of The North Iowa Off-road Club
"Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net> wrote in message
news:40a188cb_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> Astro vans use two idler arms, it is a unique steering setup, and no, the
> idler arms aren't very good. Go with the Moog, like the other guy
> suggested. If you are handy, you can install them yourself.
>
> I work for a GM dealer, and parts prices are out of control. Dealerships
> aren't the root of this evil, we are just passing the savings along. Just
> today, the owner of a 2002 Chevy truck brought it to me because of some
> brake concerns. What he needed was four new rotors, due to corrosion and
> flaking of the brake surface. Total cost of parts alone: $1086. I can
> think of no reason to charge over $400 apiece for rear brake rotors, but
> hey, I am not the union-controlled manufacturer of said parts.
>
> The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
> aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
> fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
> You decide.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> "Mort" <jmorton@on.aibn.nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:ccfoc.65$_V4.3@read1.cgocable.net...
> > Here's an article from The Car Connection, the resident mechanic is
> > noticing huge increases in prices. Seems like the manufacturers found a
> > way to offset the cost of all of the rebates and low finance rates.
> >
> > http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=281&n=158
> >
> > Mort
> >
> > Del Rawlins wrote:
> > > In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com>
Cherokee-
> > > LTD wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
> > >>box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
> > >>stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
> > >>program.
> > >
> > >
> > > GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement
arms,
> > > even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
> > > joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------
> > > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> > > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> > > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> > > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
> >
>
>
>

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Jerry; Do you always have a cynical point of view. GM does not have
wonderful little elves making there brake rotors or any other of there parts
either . Who makes the parts for GM? Your complaining about how the
customer is being ripped off at your dealership and then stating that it's
just tough ---- and you need to support the world of retired and future GM
employees. It sounds like to me that GM supported the forced child labor
companies and put on ---- rotors in the beginning. Auto manufactures
have been out sourcing parts for years. I'll buy from a union man or woman
every time if possible. Now lets see how much is the dealer paying for his
parts and how much is he marking them up to pay for your wages and putting
the remainder of the 200% in his fat little picket. What does your father
own the dealership? Get real

--
CJ & XJ JIMMIE VP.of The North Iowa Off-road Club
"Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net> wrote in message
news:40a188cb_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> Astro vans use two idler arms, it is a unique steering setup, and no, the
> idler arms aren't very good. Go with the Moog, like the other guy
> suggested. If you are handy, you can install them yourself.
>
> I work for a GM dealer, and parts prices are out of control. Dealerships
> aren't the root of this evil, we are just passing the savings along. Just
> today, the owner of a 2002 Chevy truck brought it to me because of some
> brake concerns. What he needed was four new rotors, due to corrosion and
> flaking of the brake surface. Total cost of parts alone: $1086. I can
> think of no reason to charge over $400 apiece for rear brake rotors, but
> hey, I am not the union-controlled manufacturer of said parts.
>
> The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
> aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
> fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
> You decide.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> "Mort" <jmorton@on.aibn.nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:ccfoc.65$_V4.3@read1.cgocable.net...
> > Here's an article from The Car Connection, the resident mechanic is
> > noticing huge increases in prices. Seems like the manufacturers found a
> > way to offset the cost of all of the rebates and low finance rates.
> >
> > http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=281&n=158
> >
> > Mort
> >
> > Del Rawlins wrote:
> > > In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com>
Cherokee-
> > > LTD wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
> > >>box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
> > >>stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
> > >>program.
> > >
> > >
> > > GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement
arms,
> > > even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
> > > joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------
> > > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> > > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> > > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> > > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
> >
>
>
>

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Hi Jim, and thanks for your response.

My father does not own a dealership.

Parts markup is in the neighborhood of 40%.

It is just an unfortunate fact that American made brake rotors cost more
money. It is a personal decision that each of us must make when it is time
to replace parts. Do you feed hard working American families, or do you
feed the Chinese forced labor camp money machine? Go ahead and answer
truthfully, I am not judging you.

I am not cynical, I was simply trying to be helpful. Now at least our
subject is well-informed about his choices, and can decide for himself.


Thanks again for the conversation. It is always lovely to debate with you.


Jerry


"JIM LAIRD" <CJ & XJ Jimmie@Jeepnet.net> wrote in message
news:KmPoc.51$8I3.38896@news.uswest.net...
> Jerry; Do you always have a cynical point of view. GM does not have
> wonderful little elves making there brake rotors or any other of there
parts
> either . Who makes the parts for GM? Your complaining about how the
> customer is being ripped off at your dealership and then stating that it's
> just tough ---- and you need to support the world of retired and future GM
> employees. It sounds like to me that GM supported the forced child labor
> companies and put on ---- rotors in the beginning. Auto manufactures
> have been out sourcing parts for years. I'll buy from a union man or woman
> every time if possible. Now lets see how much is the dealer paying for
his
> parts and how much is he marking them up to pay for your wages and putting
> the remainder of the 200% in his fat little picket. What does your father
> own the dealership? Get real
>
> --
> CJ & XJ JIMMIE VP.of The North Iowa Off-road Club
> "Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net> wrote in message
> news:40a188cb_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > Astro vans use two idler arms, it is a unique steering setup, and no,
the
> > idler arms aren't very good. Go with the Moog, like the other guy
> > suggested. If you are handy, you can install them yourself.
> >
> > I work for a GM dealer, and parts prices are out of control.
Dealerships
> > aren't the root of this evil, we are just passing the savings along.
Just
> > today, the owner of a 2002 Chevy truck brought it to me because of some
> > brake concerns. What he needed was four new rotors, due to corrosion
and
> > flaking of the brake surface. Total cost of parts alone: $1086. I can
> > think of no reason to charge over $400 apiece for rear brake rotors, but
> > hey, I am not the union-controlled manufacturer of said parts.
> >
> > The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
> > aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
> > fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
> > You decide.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > "Mort" <jmorton@on.aibn.nospamcom> wrote in message
> > news:ccfoc.65$_V4.3@read1.cgocable.net...
> > > Here's an article from The Car Connection, the resident mechanic is
> > > noticing huge increases in prices. Seems like the manufacturers found
a
> > > way to offset the cost of all of the rebates and low finance rates.
> > >
> > > http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=281&n=158
> > >
> > > Mort
> > >
> > > Del Rawlins wrote:
> > > > In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com>
> Cherokee-
> > > > LTD wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
> > > >>box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
> > > >>stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
> > > >>program.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement
> arms,
> > > > even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
> > > > joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------
> > > > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> > > > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> > > > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> > > > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Hi Jim, and thanks for your response.

My father does not own a dealership.

Parts markup is in the neighborhood of 40%.

It is just an unfortunate fact that American made brake rotors cost more
money. It is a personal decision that each of us must make when it is time
to replace parts. Do you feed hard working American families, or do you
feed the Chinese forced labor camp money machine? Go ahead and answer
truthfully, I am not judging you.

I am not cynical, I was simply trying to be helpful. Now at least our
subject is well-informed about his choices, and can decide for himself.


Thanks again for the conversation. It is always lovely to debate with you.


Jerry


"JIM LAIRD" <CJ & XJ Jimmie@Jeepnet.net> wrote in message
news:KmPoc.51$8I3.38896@news.uswest.net...
> Jerry; Do you always have a cynical point of view. GM does not have
> wonderful little elves making there brake rotors or any other of there
parts
> either . Who makes the parts for GM? Your complaining about how the
> customer is being ripped off at your dealership and then stating that it's
> just tough ---- and you need to support the world of retired and future GM
> employees. It sounds like to me that GM supported the forced child labor
> companies and put on ---- rotors in the beginning. Auto manufactures
> have been out sourcing parts for years. I'll buy from a union man or woman
> every time if possible. Now lets see how much is the dealer paying for
his
> parts and how much is he marking them up to pay for your wages and putting
> the remainder of the 200% in his fat little picket. What does your father
> own the dealership? Get real
>
> --
> CJ & XJ JIMMIE VP.of The North Iowa Off-road Club
> "Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net> wrote in message
> news:40a188cb_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > Astro vans use two idler arms, it is a unique steering setup, and no,
the
> > idler arms aren't very good. Go with the Moog, like the other guy
> > suggested. If you are handy, you can install them yourself.
> >
> > I work for a GM dealer, and parts prices are out of control.
Dealerships
> > aren't the root of this evil, we are just passing the savings along.
Just
> > today, the owner of a 2002 Chevy truck brought it to me because of some
> > brake concerns. What he needed was four new rotors, due to corrosion
and
> > flaking of the brake surface. Total cost of parts alone: $1086. I can
> > think of no reason to charge over $400 apiece for rear brake rotors, but
> > hey, I am not the union-controlled manufacturer of said parts.
> >
> > The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
> > aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
> > fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
> > You decide.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > "Mort" <jmorton@on.aibn.nospamcom> wrote in message
> > news:ccfoc.65$_V4.3@read1.cgocable.net...
> > > Here's an article from The Car Connection, the resident mechanic is
> > > noticing huge increases in prices. Seems like the manufacturers found
a
> > > way to offset the cost of all of the rebates and low finance rates.
> > >
> > > http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=281&n=158
> > >
> > > Mort
> > >
> > > Del Rawlins wrote:
> > > > In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com>
> Cherokee-
> > > > LTD wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
> > > >>box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
> > > >>stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
> > > >>program.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement
> arms,
> > > > even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
> > > > joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------
> > > > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> > > > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> > > > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> > > > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: Like I needed another reason not to trust a dealership...
 

Hi Jim, and thanks for your response.

My father does not own a dealership.

Parts markup is in the neighborhood of 40%.

It is just an unfortunate fact that American made brake rotors cost more
money. It is a personal decision that each of us must make when it is time
to replace parts. Do you feed hard working American families, or do you
feed the Chinese forced labor camp money machine? Go ahead and answer
truthfully, I am not judging you.

I am not cynical, I was simply trying to be helpful. Now at least our
subject is well-informed about his choices, and can decide for himself.


Thanks again for the conversation. It is always lovely to debate with you.


Jerry


"JIM LAIRD" <CJ & XJ Jimmie@Jeepnet.net> wrote in message
news:KmPoc.51$8I3.38896@news.uswest.net...
> Jerry; Do you always have a cynical point of view. GM does not have
> wonderful little elves making there brake rotors or any other of there
parts
> either . Who makes the parts for GM? Your complaining about how the
> customer is being ripped off at your dealership and then stating that it's
> just tough ---- and you need to support the world of retired and future GM
> employees. It sounds like to me that GM supported the forced child labor
> companies and put on ---- rotors in the beginning. Auto manufactures
> have been out sourcing parts for years. I'll buy from a union man or woman
> every time if possible. Now lets see how much is the dealer paying for
his
> parts and how much is he marking them up to pay for your wages and putting
> the remainder of the 200% in his fat little picket. What does your father
> own the dealership? Get real
>
> --
> CJ & XJ JIMMIE VP.of The North Iowa Off-road Club
> "Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net> wrote in message
> news:40a188cb_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > Astro vans use two idler arms, it is a unique steering setup, and no,
the
> > idler arms aren't very good. Go with the Moog, like the other guy
> > suggested. If you are handy, you can install them yourself.
> >
> > I work for a GM dealer, and parts prices are out of control.
Dealerships
> > aren't the root of this evil, we are just passing the savings along.
Just
> > today, the owner of a 2002 Chevy truck brought it to me because of some
> > brake concerns. What he needed was four new rotors, due to corrosion
and
> > flaking of the brake surface. Total cost of parts alone: $1086. I can
> > think of no reason to charge over $400 apiece for rear brake rotors, but
> > hey, I am not the union-controlled manufacturer of said parts.
> >
> > The alternative to this particular fellow's dilemma is to purchase
> > aftermarket (read: Chinese forced child labor camp) brake rotors for a
> > fraction of the price. So now you have that on your conscience as well.
> > You decide.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > "Mort" <jmorton@on.aibn.nospamcom> wrote in message
> > news:ccfoc.65$_V4.3@read1.cgocable.net...
> > > Here's an article from The Car Connection, the resident mechanic is
> > > noticing huge increases in prices. Seems like the manufacturers found
a
> > > way to offset the cost of all of the rebates and low finance rates.
> > >
> > > http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=281&n=158
> > >
> > > Mort
> > >
> > > Del Rawlins wrote:
> > > > In <N7aoc.17179$QaS.8754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.ro gers.com>
> Cherokee-
> > > > LTD wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>Can anyone justify a $600 difference between Delco arms and 'white
> > > >>box'? I'll probably end up with the TRW's... PartSource has them in
> > > >>stock and I like to support a store that offers a free loan-a-tool
> > > >>program.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > GM idler arms are CRAP. Buy the MOOG "problem solver" replacement
> arms,
> > > > even if you have to pay more for them. Be sure to check the other
> > > > joints for wear and then get it re-aligned after the work is done.
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------
> > > > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> > > > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> > > > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> > > > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>