Mike Romain

twaldron wrote:
> Mike Romain wrote:
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> DougW wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just don't jack under the diff.
>>>>
>>>> Frame lift points are the best but sometimes the jack simply
>>>> isn't tall enough. I generally put the jack under the axle
>>>> U bolts or fairly close. Haven't tweaked anything yet.
>>>
>>>
>>> I lift by the pumpkin all the time, without issue. However, in
>>> exchanging wheels or rotating, I tend to lift one side up at a time
>>> via the middle of the frame rail.
>>>
>>> tw
>>>
>>
>> Just be warned that you habit might come back and bite you big time if
>> you use the pumpkin on some newer vehicles for a jack point. They
>> made them weaker to save weight or as a planned obsolescence feature.
>> Weaken the drive parts on a SUV, right.... Complete rear ends are
>> expensive.
>>
>> Second, just how freaking big is your floor jack that you can jack a
>> TJ up from the side frame rails and actually lift the tires off the
>> ground?????
>>
>> I can't even lift my XJ that way, nor are the 'frame' rails on my XJ
>> strong enough to jack from. The owners manual for the XJ says to use
>> the axle tubes...
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>
>
> Well, they don't come off the ground much, but all you need is a half
> inch. Another system I have for rotating, only requires one wheel off
> the ground at a time. Remove the spare from the back... then jack up the
> RR only and replace w/ spare, roll RR to RF, RF to LR and LR to LF...LF
> to spare. All one corner at a time. Easier to be happy with the jack
> point but takes a just a few mins longer and a bit more scrambling
> around. I use the control arm perches, again without issue. If you're
> lifting a corner of your Jeep and bending axle tubes, you've got more
> problems than needing a tire rotation. To replace the wheels completely,
> I'd be inclined to do one side at a time.
>
> tw
>

You seem to be missing the fact that the new axle tubes on some Jeeps
will bend if you lift from the pumpkin. We are not pulling your leg on
this... They made some D44's out of press fit aluminum. Jeep
recommends using the axle tubes for it's stock floor jack.

I have seen quite a few control arms and their mounts bent from jacking too.

I can't rotate either of my Jeep's tires your way. Both owners manuals
say to only rotated front to back and if doing a 5 tire rotation, it
goes on the main drive wheel, the right rear with the rear going to the
right front and the right front to the spare. I guess they figure the
three tires on one side will make up for the increased wear from the
main tire.

Meanwhile I do 4 tire rotations and have perfect wear on my tires.

Mike

Mike Romain

twaldron wrote:
> Mike Romain wrote:
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> DougW wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just don't jack under the diff.
>>>>
>>>> Frame lift points are the best but sometimes the jack simply
>>>> isn't tall enough. I generally put the jack under the axle
>>>> U bolts or fairly close. Haven't tweaked anything yet.
>>>
>>>
>>> I lift by the pumpkin all the time, without issue. However, in
>>> exchanging wheels or rotating, I tend to lift one side up at a time
>>> via the middle of the frame rail.
>>>
>>> tw
>>>
>>
>> Just be warned that you habit might come back and bite you big time if
>> you use the pumpkin on some newer vehicles for a jack point. They
>> made them weaker to save weight or as a planned obsolescence feature.
>> Weaken the drive parts on a SUV, right.... Complete rear ends are
>> expensive.
>>
>> Second, just how freaking big is your floor jack that you can jack a
>> TJ up from the side frame rails and actually lift the tires off the
>> ground?????
>>
>> I can't even lift my XJ that way, nor are the 'frame' rails on my XJ
>> strong enough to jack from. The owners manual for the XJ says to use
>> the axle tubes...
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>
>
> Well, they don't come off the ground much, but all you need is a half
> inch. Another system I have for rotating, only requires one wheel off
> the ground at a time. Remove the spare from the back... then jack up the
> RR only and replace w/ spare, roll RR to RF, RF to LR and LR to LF...LF
> to spare. All one corner at a time. Easier to be happy with the jack
> point but takes a just a few mins longer and a bit more scrambling
> around. I use the control arm perches, again without issue. If you're
> lifting a corner of your Jeep and bending axle tubes, you've got more
> problems than needing a tire rotation. To replace the wheels completely,
> I'd be inclined to do one side at a time.
>
> tw
>

You seem to be missing the fact that the new axle tubes on some Jeeps
will bend if you lift from the pumpkin. We are not pulling your leg on
this... They made some D44's out of press fit aluminum. Jeep
recommends using the axle tubes for it's stock floor jack.

I have seen quite a few control arms and their mounts bent from jacking too.

I can't rotate either of my Jeep's tires your way. Both owners manuals
say to only rotated front to back and if doing a 5 tire rotation, it
goes on the main drive wheel, the right rear with the rear going to the
right front and the right front to the spare. I guess they figure the
three tires on one side will make up for the increased wear from the
main tire.

Meanwhile I do 4 tire rotations and have perfect wear on my tires.

Mike

Mike Romain

twaldron wrote:
> Mike Romain wrote:
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> DougW wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just don't jack under the diff.
>>>>
>>>> Frame lift points are the best but sometimes the jack simply
>>>> isn't tall enough. I generally put the jack under the axle
>>>> U bolts or fairly close. Haven't tweaked anything yet.
>>>
>>>
>>> I lift by the pumpkin all the time, without issue. However, in
>>> exchanging wheels or rotating, I tend to lift one side up at a time
>>> via the middle of the frame rail.
>>>
>>> tw
>>>
>>
>> Just be warned that you habit might come back and bite you big time if
>> you use the pumpkin on some newer vehicles for a jack point. They
>> made them weaker to save weight or as a planned obsolescence feature.
>> Weaken the drive parts on a SUV, right.... Complete rear ends are
>> expensive.
>>
>> Second, just how freaking big is your floor jack that you can jack a
>> TJ up from the side frame rails and actually lift the tires off the
>> ground?????
>>
>> I can't even lift my XJ that way, nor are the 'frame' rails on my XJ
>> strong enough to jack from. The owners manual for the XJ says to use
>> the axle tubes...
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>
>
> Well, they don't come off the ground much, but all you need is a half
> inch. Another system I have for rotating, only requires one wheel off
> the ground at a time. Remove the spare from the back... then jack up the
> RR only and replace w/ spare, roll RR to RF, RF to LR and LR to LF...LF
> to spare. All one corner at a time. Easier to be happy with the jack
> point but takes a just a few mins longer and a bit more scrambling
> around. I use the control arm perches, again without issue. If you're
> lifting a corner of your Jeep and bending axle tubes, you've got more
> problems than needing a tire rotation. To replace the wheels completely,
> I'd be inclined to do one side at a time.
>
> tw
>

You seem to be missing the fact that the new axle tubes on some Jeeps
will bend if you lift from the pumpkin. We are not pulling your leg on
this... They made some D44's out of press fit aluminum. Jeep
recommends using the axle tubes for it's stock floor jack.

I have seen quite a few control arms and their mounts bent from jacking too.

I can't rotate either of my Jeep's tires your way. Both owners manuals
say to only rotated front to back and if doing a 5 tire rotation, it
goes on the main drive wheel, the right rear with the rear going to the
right front and the right front to the spare. I guess they figure the
three tires on one side will make up for the increased wear from the
main tire.

Meanwhile I do 4 tire rotations and have perfect wear on my tires.

Mike

clay

Didn't see it mentioned (probably 'cause it's obvious) but I thought I'd
toss it out...
A small square of ¾" plywood or short piece of 2x4 between the cup on
the jack and jack point on the vehicle helps ------ the load and gives
the pointy metal bits (like spring shekel bolts, etc.) a better bite.
& metal on wood doesn't slide nearly as easy as metal on metal.

clay

Didn't see it mentioned (probably 'cause it's obvious) but I thought I'd
toss it out...
A small square of ¾" plywood or short piece of 2x4 between the cup on
the jack and jack point on the vehicle helps ------ the load and gives
the pointy metal bits (like spring shekel bolts, etc.) a better bite.
& metal on wood doesn't slide nearly as easy as metal on metal.

clay

Didn't see it mentioned (probably 'cause it's obvious) but I thought I'd
toss it out...
A small square of ¾" plywood or short piece of 2x4 between the cup on
the jack and jack point on the vehicle helps ------ the load and gives
the pointy metal bits (like spring shekel bolts, etc.) a better bite.
& metal on wood doesn't slide nearly as easy as metal on metal.

Mike Romain

When I am working on something, I block tires and use the jack, a jack
stand or three and just for good measure I always lay the tire under the
frame of the vehicle so if it does come down, it is stopping at the
rim/tire width before it hits ground.

I also use the 2x4 lots to ------ out the jack's pressure. Old
vehicles, especially ones in the rust belt get soft or crystallized
metal that will collapse under the weight of a jack, even at the
specific jacking points.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Earle Horton wrote:
> I thought I'd throw this out too. I don't know how many times I've seen
> vehicles sitting in the local Peerless Tire lot with a jack under the
> pumpkin and two jack stands under the other end (Or maybe that was a jack
> under the other pumpkin?) waiting for four new tires...
>
> Earle
>
>
> "clay" <clay@mation.com> wrote in message
> news:qlgKh.3354$Qw.854@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net. ..
>> Didn't see it mentioned (probably 'cause it's obvious) but I thought I'd
>> toss it out...
>> A small square of ¾" plywood or short piece of 2x4 between the cup on
>> the jack and jack point on the vehicle helps ------ the load and gives
>> the pointy metal bits (like spring shekel bolts, etc.) a better bite.
>> & metal on wood doesn't slide nearly as easy as metal on metal.
>
>

Mike Romain

When I am working on something, I block tires and use the jack, a jack
stand or three and just for good measure I always lay the tire under the
frame of the vehicle so if it does come down, it is stopping at the
rim/tire width before it hits ground.

I also use the 2x4 lots to ------ out the jack's pressure. Old
vehicles, especially ones in the rust belt get soft or crystallized
metal that will collapse under the weight of a jack, even at the
specific jacking points.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Earle Horton wrote:
> I thought I'd throw this out too. I don't know how many times I've seen
> vehicles sitting in the local Peerless Tire lot with a jack under the
> pumpkin and two jack stands under the other end (Or maybe that was a jack
> under the other pumpkin?) waiting for four new tires...
>
> Earle
>
>
> "clay" <clay@mation.com> wrote in message
> news:qlgKh.3354$Qw.854@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net. ..
>> Didn't see it mentioned (probably 'cause it's obvious) but I thought I'd
>> toss it out...
>> A small square of ¾" plywood or short piece of 2x4 between the cup on
>> the jack and jack point on the vehicle helps ------ the load and gives
>> the pointy metal bits (like spring shekel bolts, etc.) a better bite.
>> & metal on wood doesn't slide nearly as easy as metal on metal.
>
>

Mike Romain

When I am working on something, I block tires and use the jack, a jack
stand or three and just for good measure I always lay the tire under the
frame of the vehicle so if it does come down, it is stopping at the
rim/tire width before it hits ground.

I also use the 2x4 lots to ------ out the jack's pressure. Old
vehicles, especially ones in the rust belt get soft or crystallized
metal that will collapse under the weight of a jack, even at the
specific jacking points.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Earle Horton wrote:
> I thought I'd throw this out too. I don't know how many times I've seen
> vehicles sitting in the local Peerless Tire lot with a jack under the
> pumpkin and two jack stands under the other end (Or maybe that was a jack
> under the other pumpkin?) waiting for four new tires...
>
> Earle
>
>
> "clay" <clay@mation.com> wrote in message
> news:qlgKh.3354$Qw.854@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net. ..
>> Didn't see it mentioned (probably 'cause it's obvious) but I thought I'd
>> toss it out...
>> A small square of ¾" plywood or short piece of 2x4 between the cup on
>> the jack and jack point on the vehicle helps ------ the load and gives
>> the pointy metal bits (like spring shekel bolts, etc.) a better bite.
>> & metal on wood doesn't slide nearly as easy as metal on metal.
>
>

twaldron

Mike Romain wrote:
> twaldron wrote:
>
>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>
>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>
>>>> DougW wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just don't jack under the diff.
>>>>>
>>>>> Frame lift points are the best but sometimes the jack simply
>>>>> isn't tall enough. I generally put the jack under the axle
>>>>> U bolts or fairly close. Haven't tweaked anything yet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I lift by the pumpkin all the time, without issue. However, in
>>>> exchanging wheels or rotating, I tend to lift one side up at a time
>>>> via the middle of the frame rail.
>>>>
>>>> tw
>>>>
>>>
>>> Just be warned that you habit might come back and bite you big time
>>> if you use the pumpkin on some newer vehicles for a jack point. They
>>> made them weaker to save weight or as a planned obsolescence
>>> feature. Weaken the drive parts on a SUV, right.... Complete rear
>>> ends are expensive.
>>>
>>> Second, just how freaking big is your floor jack that you can jack a
>>> TJ up from the side frame rails and actually lift the tires off the
>>> ground?????
>>>
>>> I can't even lift my XJ that way, nor are the 'frame' rails on my XJ
>>> strong enough to jack from. The owners manual for the XJ says to use
>>> the axle tubes...
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>
>>
>>
>> Well, they don't come off the ground much, but all you need is a half
>> inch. Another system I have for rotating, only requires one wheel off
>> the ground at a time. Remove the spare from the back... then jack up
>> the RR only and replace w/ spare, roll RR to RF, RF to LR and LR to
>> LF...LF to spare. All one corner at a time. Easier to be happy with
>> the jack point but takes a just a few mins longer and a bit more
>> scrambling around. I use the control arm perches, again without issue.
>> If you're lifting a corner of your Jeep and bending axle tubes, you've
>> got more problems than needing a tire rotation. To replace the wheels
>> completely, I'd be inclined to do one side at a time.
>>
>> tw
>>
>
> You seem to be missing the fact that the new axle tubes on some Jeeps
> will bend if you lift from the pumpkin. We are not pulling your leg on
> this... They made some D44's out of press fit aluminum. Jeep
> recommends using the axle tubes for it's stock floor jack.
>
> I have seen quite a few control arms and their mounts bent from jacking
> too.
>
> I can't rotate either of my Jeep's tires your way. Both owners manuals
> say to only rotated front to back and if doing a 5 tire rotation, it
> goes on the main drive wheel, the right rear with the rear going to the
> right front and the right front to the spare. I guess they figure the
> three tires on one side will make up for the increased wear from the
> main tire.
>
> Meanwhile I do 4 tire rotations and have perfect wear on my tires.
>
> Mike


I'm not missing it. I hear ya. I'm saying I've not seen any problem
because of it, so I'm going to continue to do it if I have the need.
That aluminum axle you are talking about was put on some Grands, not my
XJ nor TJ. Hell, Jeeps will all be 4 wheel independent suspension soon
anyway. ;)

I used to do a 4 tire rotation only, but I kept ending up with a brand
new spare when everything wore out and I generally wanted to change
tires/brands so I had to fire sale the spare. Wasted $. Since I've been
doing the 5 way rotation, I've not noticed any negative affects from
crossing over. The first 1000 miles smooths out the imperfections and
then everything's OK. You have to do it often, however.

If you get perfect wear out of your rotation schedule, I'd keep it up
too. I had an 89 4Runner that was the same way. I only did front to rear
rotation on it and all 4 tires were always perfectly flat. Not all 4wd
vehicles wear that well. These 35" MT/Rs are heavily lugged and need
lots of rotation.

tw

--
__________________________________________________ ___________________
2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco

"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."

Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
__________________________________________________ ___________________