On Tue, 29 May 2007 11:13:51 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

>I can't see how 'your' spacers changed the stock ride unless something
>is wrong. I have installed them and 'not' had the issues.
>
>Are you 'sure' your shocks are set right and are not limiting the
>travel? Did you also put in the extended bumpstops with the spacers?
>
>If the shocks can limit the travel by being the wrong length or because
>of missing bumpstops, you 'will' break something.
>
>I have seen shocks snapped off, I have seen shocks punched through the
>floor into the back seat, I have seen frames snap where the shock mounts
>all because of improper length shocks.
>
>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
>97tjMike wrote:
>> well mine did...sue me
>>
>>
>>> Spacers alone do not make the ride rougher. Stiffer springs and shocks
>>> will, as well as adding too much air to your tires.
>>>
>>> tw
>>>
>>> --
>>> PLEASE REMOVE THE "OBVIOUS" TO REPLY.
>>
>>

There are two types of spacers ...

The type that twist in between the coils increase the spring rate.
These also have a tendency to fall out ...

The type that install between the end of the spring and the spring
seat don't increase the spring rate.

reboot


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reboot wrote:

> On Tue, 29 May 2007 11:13:51 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I can't see how 'your' spacers changed the stock ride unless something
>>is wrong. I have installed them and 'not' had the issues.
>>
>>Are you 'sure' your shocks are set right and are not limiting the
>>travel? Did you also put in the extended bumpstops with the spacers?
>>
>>If the shocks can limit the travel by being the wrong length or because
>>of missing bumpstops, you 'will' break something.
>>
>>I have seen shocks snapped off, I have seen shocks punched through the
>>floor into the back seat, I have seen frames snap where the shock mounts
>>all because of improper length shocks.
>>
>>Mike
>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>>
>>97tjMike wrote:
>>
>>>well mine did...sue me
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Spacers alone do not make the ride rougher. Stiffer springs and shocks
>>>>will, as well as adding too much air to your tires.
>>>>
>>>>tw

> There are two types of spacers ...
>
> The type that twist in between the coils increase the spring rate.
> These also have a tendency to fall out ...
>
> The type that install between the end of the spring and the spring
> seat don't increase the spring rate.
>
> reboot


Yes, true, and also those adjustable spacers which are designed to
eliminate lean (band aid) or to compensate for things like hard tops or
any other type load. The increase would probably be slight, but possibly
noticeable. However, I think we were discussing the standard cheap 2" pucks.

tw


--
PLEASE REMOVE THE "OBVIOUS" TO REPLY.

 

reboot wrote:

> On Tue, 29 May 2007 11:13:51 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I can't see how 'your' spacers changed the stock ride unless something
>>is wrong. I have installed them and 'not' had the issues.
>>
>>Are you 'sure' your shocks are set right and are not limiting the
>>travel? Did you also put in the extended bumpstops with the spacers?
>>
>>If the shocks can limit the travel by being the wrong length or because
>>of missing bumpstops, you 'will' break something.
>>
>>I have seen shocks snapped off, I have seen shocks punched through the
>>floor into the back seat, I have seen frames snap where the shock mounts
>>all because of improper length shocks.
>>
>>Mike
>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>>
>>97tjMike wrote:
>>
>>>well mine did...sue me
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Spacers alone do not make the ride rougher. Stiffer springs and shocks
>>>>will, as well as adding too much air to your tires.
>>>>
>>>>tw

> There are two types of spacers ...
>
> The type that twist in between the coils increase the spring rate.
> These also have a tendency to fall out ...
>
> The type that install between the end of the spring and the spring
> seat don't increase the spring rate.
>
> reboot


Yes, true, and also those adjustable spacers which are designed to
eliminate lean (band aid) or to compensate for things like hard tops or
any other type load. The increase would probably be slight, but possibly
noticeable. However, I think we were discussing the standard cheap 2" pucks.

tw


--
PLEASE REMOVE THE "OBVIOUS" TO REPLY.

 

reboot wrote:

> On Tue, 29 May 2007 11:13:51 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I can't see how 'your' spacers changed the stock ride unless something
>>is wrong. I have installed them and 'not' had the issues.
>>
>>Are you 'sure' your shocks are set right and are not limiting the
>>travel? Did you also put in the extended bumpstops with the spacers?
>>
>>If the shocks can limit the travel by being the wrong length or because
>>of missing bumpstops, you 'will' break something.
>>
>>I have seen shocks snapped off, I have seen shocks punched through the
>>floor into the back seat, I have seen frames snap where the shock mounts
>>all because of improper length shocks.
>>
>>Mike
>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>>
>>97tjMike wrote:
>>
>>>well mine did...sue me
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Spacers alone do not make the ride rougher. Stiffer springs and shocks
>>>>will, as well as adding too much air to your tires.
>>>>
>>>>tw

> There are two types of spacers ...
>
> The type that twist in between the coils increase the spring rate.
> These also have a tendency to fall out ...
>
> The type that install between the end of the spring and the spring
> seat don't increase the spring rate.
>
> reboot


Yes, true, and also those adjustable spacers which are designed to
eliminate lean (band aid) or to compensate for things like hard tops or
any other type load. The increase would probably be slight, but possibly
noticeable. However, I think we were discussing the standard cheap 2" pucks.

tw


--
PLEASE REMOVE THE "OBVIOUS" TO REPLY.

 

reboot wrote:

> On Tue, 29 May 2007 11:13:51 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I can't see how 'your' spacers changed the stock ride unless something
>>is wrong. I have installed them and 'not' had the issues.
>>
>>Are you 'sure' your shocks are set right and are not limiting the
>>travel? Did you also put in the extended bumpstops with the spacers?
>>
>>If the shocks can limit the travel by being the wrong length or because
>>of missing bumpstops, you 'will' break something.
>>
>>I have seen shocks snapped off, I have seen shocks punched through the
>>floor into the back seat, I have seen frames snap where the shock mounts
>>all because of improper length shocks.
>>
>>Mike
>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>>
>>97tjMike wrote:
>>
>>>well mine did...sue me
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Spacers alone do not make the ride rougher. Stiffer springs and shocks
>>>>will, as well as adding too much air to your tires.
>>>>
>>>>tw

> There are two types of spacers ...
>
> The type that twist in between the coils increase the spring rate.
> These also have a tendency to fall out ...
>
> The type that install between the end of the spring and the spring
> seat don't increase the spring rate.
>
> reboot


Yes, true, and also those adjustable spacers which are designed to
eliminate lean (band aid) or to compensate for things like hard tops or
any other type load. The increase would probably be slight, but possibly
noticeable. However, I think we were discussing the standard cheap 2" pucks.

tw


--
PLEASE REMOVE THE "OBVIOUS" TO REPLY.

 

twaldron wrote:
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> "twaldron" <twaldron@OBVIOUSaol.com> wrote in message
>> news:s427i.6933$3B1.4857@trnddc08...
>>
>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> jeff wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I only think his steering wheel drag link will be out. I don't
>>>> think the toe gets tagged on the solid axle lift.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>
>>> Sure it does. It won't be a lot on the 2" spacer lift, but it will be
>>> enough to chew up the tires over a month or so. It is even worse on a
>>> 4+ lift. In fact, it's pretty undriveable until you set the toe. It
>>> will walk like Michael Jackson. But yes, you need to reset the drag
>>> link too!
>>>
>>
>>
>> Mike, here's a pic that should illustrate, it's an XJ but it's
>> virtually identical to the TJ. The tie rod doesn't go from knuckle to
>> knuckle, it is connected to the drag link inboard of the pass side
>> knuckle, and the drag link end is connected to the knuckle. If you
>> lift the suspension, you increase the drag link angle, which will give
>> you excessive toe-in.
>> http://www.m1911.org/images/Cherokee/varkiza/10.jpg
>>
>
>
> Thanks, Matt! Perfect visual.
>
> tw
>

Thanks, gotcha. Now I remember the difference, spaced that out thinking
about the CJ's.

Mike

 

twaldron wrote:
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> "twaldron" <twaldron@OBVIOUSaol.com> wrote in message
>> news:s427i.6933$3B1.4857@trnddc08...
>>
>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> jeff wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I only think his steering wheel drag link will be out. I don't
>>>> think the toe gets tagged on the solid axle lift.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>
>>> Sure it does. It won't be a lot on the 2" spacer lift, but it will be
>>> enough to chew up the tires over a month or so. It is even worse on a
>>> 4+ lift. In fact, it's pretty undriveable until you set the toe. It
>>> will walk like Michael Jackson. But yes, you need to reset the drag
>>> link too!
>>>
>>
>>
>> Mike, here's a pic that should illustrate, it's an XJ but it's
>> virtually identical to the TJ. The tie rod doesn't go from knuckle to
>> knuckle, it is connected to the drag link inboard of the pass side
>> knuckle, and the drag link end is connected to the knuckle. If you
>> lift the suspension, you increase the drag link angle, which will give
>> you excessive toe-in.
>> http://www.m1911.org/images/Cherokee/varkiza/10.jpg
>>
>
>
> Thanks, Matt! Perfect visual.
>
> tw
>

Thanks, gotcha. Now I remember the difference, spaced that out thinking
about the CJ's.

Mike

 

twaldron wrote:
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> "twaldron" <twaldron@OBVIOUSaol.com> wrote in message
>> news:s427i.6933$3B1.4857@trnddc08...
>>
>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> jeff wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I only think his steering wheel drag link will be out. I don't
>>>> think the toe gets tagged on the solid axle lift.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>
>>> Sure it does. It won't be a lot on the 2" spacer lift, but it will be
>>> enough to chew up the tires over a month or so. It is even worse on a
>>> 4+ lift. In fact, it's pretty undriveable until you set the toe. It
>>> will walk like Michael Jackson. But yes, you need to reset the drag
>>> link too!
>>>
>>
>>
>> Mike, here's a pic that should illustrate, it's an XJ but it's
>> virtually identical to the TJ. The tie rod doesn't go from knuckle to
>> knuckle, it is connected to the drag link inboard of the pass side
>> knuckle, and the drag link end is connected to the knuckle. If you
>> lift the suspension, you increase the drag link angle, which will give
>> you excessive toe-in.
>> http://www.m1911.org/images/Cherokee/varkiza/10.jpg
>>
>
>
> Thanks, Matt! Perfect visual.
>
> tw
>

Thanks, gotcha. Now I remember the difference, spaced that out thinking
about the CJ's.

Mike

 

twaldron wrote:
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> "twaldron" <twaldron@OBVIOUSaol.com> wrote in message
>> news:s427i.6933$3B1.4857@trnddc08...
>>
>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> jeff wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I only think his steering wheel drag link will be out. I don't
>>>> think the toe gets tagged on the solid axle lift.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>
>>> Sure it does. It won't be a lot on the 2" spacer lift, but it will be
>>> enough to chew up the tires over a month or so. It is even worse on a
>>> 4+ lift. In fact, it's pretty undriveable until you set the toe. It
>>> will walk like Michael Jackson. But yes, you need to reset the drag
>>> link too!
>>>
>>
>>
>> Mike, here's a pic that should illustrate, it's an XJ but it's
>> virtually identical to the TJ. The tie rod doesn't go from knuckle to
>> knuckle, it is connected to the drag link inboard of the pass side
>> knuckle, and the drag link end is connected to the knuckle. If you
>> lift the suspension, you increase the drag link angle, which will give
>> you excessive toe-in.
>> http://www.m1911.org/images/Cherokee/varkiza/10.jpg
>>
>
>
> Thanks, Matt! Perfect visual.
>
> tw
>

Thanks, gotcha. Now I remember the difference, spaced that out thinking
about the CJ's.

Mike

 

reboot wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2007 11:13:51 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> I can't see how 'your' spacers changed the stock ride unless something
>> is wrong. I have installed them and 'not' had the issues.
>>
>> Are you 'sure' your shocks are set right and are not limiting the
>> travel? Did you also put in the extended bumpstops with the spacers?
>>
>> If the shocks can limit the travel by being the wrong length or because
>> of missing bumpstops, you 'will' break something.
>>
>> I have seen shocks snapped off, I have seen shocks punched through the
>> floor into the back seat, I have seen frames snap where the shock mounts
>> all because of improper length shocks.
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>>
>> 97tjMike wrote:
>>> well mine did...sue me
>>>
>>>
>>>> Spacers alone do not make the ride rougher. Stiffer springs and shocks
>>>> will, as well as adding too much air to your tires.
>>>>
>>>> tw
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> PLEASE REMOVE THE "OBVIOUS" TO REPLY.
>>>
>
> There are two types of spacers ...
>
> The type that twist in between the coils increase the spring rate.
> These also have a tendency to fall out ...
>
> The type that install between the end of the spring and the spring
> seat don't increase the spring rate.
>
> reboot
>
>

I always thought of those as load levelers, not spacer lifts. I was
talking the pucks that sit on the springs so the exact same spring rate
is still there.

Mike