Liberty CRD
 

Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state? Is
there some reason you could not register it in NY?

Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.

j

Re: Liberty CRD
 

It is not legal in some US states, if it is the one I am thinking about
with the lights up top. In some states, the lights can be no more than
a certain height and the roof lights are not legal.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

John Roche wrote:
>
> Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state? Is
> there some reason you could not register it in NY?
>
> Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
>
> j

Re: Liberty CRD
 

It is not legal in some US states, if it is the one I am thinking about
with the lights up top. In some states, the lights can be no more than
a certain height and the roof lights are not legal.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

John Roche wrote:
>
> Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state? Is
> there some reason you could not register it in NY?
>
> Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
>
> j

Re: Liberty CRD
 

It is not legal in some US states, if it is the one I am thinking about
with the lights up top. In some states, the lights can be no more than
a certain height and the roof lights are not legal.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

John Roche wrote:
>
> Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state? Is
> there some reason you could not register it in NY?
>
> Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
>
> j

Re: Liberty CRD
 

Mike, sounds like you're thinking of the Liberty Renegade. The CRD is the
new Common Rail Diesel, which AFAIK is not allowed in some states due to
emissions rules and/or diesel fuel quality.


"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:41640A73.88BCCF44@sympatico.ca...
> It is not legal in some US states, if it is the one I am thinking about
> with the lights up top. In some states, the lights can be no more than
> a certain height and the roof lights are not legal.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> John Roche wrote:
> >
> > Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state?
Is
> > there some reason you could not register it in NY?
> >
> > Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
> >
> > j

Re: Liberty CRD
 

Mike, sounds like you're thinking of the Liberty Renegade. The CRD is the
new Common Rail Diesel, which AFAIK is not allowed in some states due to
emissions rules and/or diesel fuel quality.


"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:41640A73.88BCCF44@sympatico.ca...
> It is not legal in some US states, if it is the one I am thinking about
> with the lights up top. In some states, the lights can be no more than
> a certain height and the roof lights are not legal.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> John Roche wrote:
> >
> > Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state?
Is
> > there some reason you could not register it in NY?
> >
> > Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
> >
> > j

Re: Liberty CRD
 

Mike, sounds like you're thinking of the Liberty Renegade. The CRD is the
new Common Rail Diesel, which AFAIK is not allowed in some states due to
emissions rules and/or diesel fuel quality.


"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:41640A73.88BCCF44@sympatico.ca...
> It is not legal in some US states, if it is the one I am thinking about
> with the lights up top. In some states, the lights can be no more than
> a certain height and the roof lights are not legal.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> John Roche wrote:
> >
> > Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state?
Is
> > there some reason you could not register it in NY?
> >
> > Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
> >
> > j

Re: Liberty CRD
 

You are correct, that is what I am thinking of.

Mike

Chuck Bremer wrote:
>
> Mike, sounds like you're thinking of the Liberty Renegade. The CRD is the
> new Common Rail Diesel, which AFAIK is not allowed in some states due to
> emissions rules and/or diesel fuel quality.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:41640A73.88BCCF44@sympatico.ca...
> > It is not legal in some US states, if it is the one I am thinking about
> > with the lights up top. In some states, the lights can be no more than
> > a certain height and the roof lights are not legal.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > John Roche wrote:
> > >
> > > Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state?
> Is
> > > there some reason you could not register it in NY?
> > >
> > > Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
> > >
> > > j

Re: Liberty CRD
 

You are correct, that is what I am thinking of.

Mike

Chuck Bremer wrote:
>
> Mike, sounds like you're thinking of the Liberty Renegade. The CRD is the
> new Common Rail Diesel, which AFAIK is not allowed in some states due to
> emissions rules and/or diesel fuel quality.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:41640A73.88BCCF44@sympatico.ca...
> > It is not legal in some US states, if it is the one I am thinking about
> > with the lights up top. In some states, the lights can be no more than
> > a certain height and the roof lights are not legal.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > John Roche wrote:
> > >
> > > Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state?
> Is
> > > there some reason you could not register it in NY?
> > >
> > > Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
> > >
> > > j

Re: Liberty CRD
 

You are correct, that is what I am thinking of.

Mike

Chuck Bremer wrote:
>
> Mike, sounds like you're thinking of the Liberty Renegade. The CRD is the
> new Common Rail Diesel, which AFAIK is not allowed in some states due to
> emissions rules and/or diesel fuel quality.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:41640A73.88BCCF44@sympatico.ca...
> > It is not legal in some US states, if it is the one I am thinking about
> > with the lights up top. In some states, the lights can be no more than
> > a certain height and the roof lights are not legal.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > John Roche wrote:
> > >
> > > Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state?
> Is
> > > there some reason you could not register it in NY?
> > >
> > > Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
> > >
> > > j

Re: Liberty CRD
 

See fine print at bottom here:
http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/news/20...crd_68888.html

"not be available in California, Massachusetts, Maine, New York or Vermont."
--
JimG
80' CJ-7 258 CID, HEI
4.56 Gears, Lock-Right F&R
35" BFG MT on 15x10 Centerlines
D44 Rear, D30 Front. SOA
Dana 300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
Warn X8000i w/ dual batteries

00' TJ Sport 4.0L, 5sp
4.56 Gears, TrueTrac rear
33" BFG AT on 15x8 Eagle Alloys
D35 Rear, D30 Front. 3" Suspension Lift

"John Roche" <jroche@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BD89814B.74FC1%jroche@nyc.rr.com...
> Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state?
> Is
> there some reason you could not register it in NY?
>
> Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
>
> j
>
>

Re: Liberty CRD
 

See fine print at bottom here:
http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/news/20...crd_68888.html

"not be available in California, Massachusetts, Maine, New York or Vermont."
--
JimG
80' CJ-7 258 CID, HEI
4.56 Gears, Lock-Right F&R
35" BFG MT on 15x10 Centerlines
D44 Rear, D30 Front. SOA
Dana 300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
Warn X8000i w/ dual batteries

00' TJ Sport 4.0L, 5sp
4.56 Gears, TrueTrac rear
33" BFG AT on 15x8 Eagle Alloys
D35 Rear, D30 Front. 3" Suspension Lift

"John Roche" <jroche@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BD89814B.74FC1%jroche@nyc.rr.com...
> Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state?
> Is
> there some reason you could not register it in NY?
>
> Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
>
> j
>
>

Re: Liberty CRD
 

See fine print at bottom here:
http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/news/20...crd_68888.html

"not be available in California, Massachusetts, Maine, New York or Vermont."
--
JimG
80' CJ-7 258 CID, HEI
4.56 Gears, Lock-Right F&R
35" BFG MT on 15x10 Centerlines
D44 Rear, D30 Front. SOA
Dana 300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
Warn X8000i w/ dual batteries

00' TJ Sport 4.0L, 5sp
4.56 Gears, TrueTrac rear
33" BFG AT on 15x8 Eagle Alloys
D35 Rear, D30 Front. 3" Suspension Lift

"John Roche" <jroche@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BD89814B.74FC1%jroche@nyc.rr.com...
> Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state?
> Is
> there some reason you could not register it in NY?
>
> Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
>
> j
>
>

Re: Liberty CRD
 

Hi John (troll),
Because diesel engines run too dirty for our environment, as soon
as these emission laws are enforced they won't be allowed anywhere:
http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/light.html :-)
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

John Roche wrote:
>
> Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state? Is
> there some reason you could not register it in NY?
>
> Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
>
> j

Re: Liberty CRD
 

Hi John (troll),
Because diesel engines run too dirty for our environment, as soon
as these emission laws are enforced they won't be allowed anywhere:
http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/light.html :-)
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

John Roche wrote:
>
> Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state? Is
> there some reason you could not register it in NY?
>
> Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
>
> j

Re: Liberty CRD
 

Hi John (troll),
Because diesel engines run too dirty for our environment, as soon
as these emission laws are enforced they won't be allowed anywhere:
http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/light.html :-)
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

John Roche wrote:
>
> Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state? Is
> there some reason you could not register it in NY?
>
> Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
>
> j

Re: Liberty CRD
 

What about my question struck you as a troll post?

If what you say is true, why is Jeep even making the CRD?

John

L.W. ------ III (ßill) wrote on 10/6/04 3:17 PM:

> Hi John (troll),
> Because diesel engines run too dirty for our environment, as soon
> as these emission laws are enforced they won't be allowed anywhere:
> http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/light.html :-)
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> John Roche wrote:
>>
>> Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state? Is
>> there some reason you could not register it in NY?
>>
>> Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
>>
>> j

Re: Liberty CRD
 

What about my question struck you as a troll post?

If what you say is true, why is Jeep even making the CRD?

John

L.W. ------ III (ßill) wrote on 10/6/04 3:17 PM:

> Hi John (troll),
> Because diesel engines run too dirty for our environment, as soon
> as these emission laws are enforced they won't be allowed anywhere:
> http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/light.html :-)
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> John Roche wrote:
>>
>> Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state? Is
>> there some reason you could not register it in NY?
>>
>> Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
>>
>> j

Re: Liberty CRD
 

What about my question struck you as a troll post?

If what you say is true, why is Jeep even making the CRD?

John

L.W. ------ III (ßill) wrote on 10/6/04 3:17 PM:

> Hi John (troll),
> Because diesel engines run too dirty for our environment, as soon
> as these emission laws are enforced they won't be allowed anywhere:
> http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/light.html :-)
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> John Roche wrote:
>>
>> Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of state? Is
>> there some reason you could not register it in NY?
>>
>> Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
>>
>> j

Re: Liberty CRD
 

John, because only a troll would suggest using a dirty fuel!
The diesel is for the Foreign market, where they're not saddled
with our bleeding heart liberal, environmentalist making sure their
building are not covered in soot, like they are.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

John Roche wrote:
>
> What about my question struck you as a troll post?
>
> If what you say is true, why is Jeep even making the CRD?
>
> John

Re: Liberty CRD
 

John, because only a troll would suggest using a dirty fuel!
The diesel is for the Foreign market, where they're not saddled
with our bleeding heart liberal, environmentalist making sure their
building are not covered in soot, like they are.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

John Roche wrote:
>
> What about my question struck you as a troll post?
>
> If what you say is true, why is Jeep even making the CRD?
>
> John

Re: Liberty CRD
 

John, because only a troll would suggest using a dirty fuel!
The diesel is for the Foreign market, where they're not saddled
with our bleeding heart liberal, environmentalist making sure their
building are not covered in soot, like they are.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

John Roche wrote:
>
> What about my question struck you as a troll post?
>
> If what you say is true, why is Jeep even making the CRD?
>
> John

Re: Liberty CRD
 

Don't take it personally. He thinks he sees troll posts all the time.

-John

"John Roche" <jroche@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BD8A09F8.75065%jroche@nyc.rr.com...
> What about my question struck you as a troll post?
>
> If what you say is true, why is Jeep even making the CRD?
>
> John
>
> L.W. ------ III (ßill) wrote on 10/6/04 3:17 PM:
>
> > Hi John (troll),
> > Because diesel engines run too dirty for our environment, as soon
> > as these emission laws are enforced they won't be allowed anywhere:
> > http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/light.html :-)
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > John Roche wrote:
> >>
> >> Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of
state? Is
> >> there some reason you could not register it in NY?
> >>
> >> Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
> >>
> >> j
>

Re: Liberty CRD
 

Don't take it personally. He thinks he sees troll posts all the time.

-John

"John Roche" <jroche@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BD8A09F8.75065%jroche@nyc.rr.com...
> What about my question struck you as a troll post?
>
> If what you say is true, why is Jeep even making the CRD?
>
> John
>
> L.W. ------ III (ßill) wrote on 10/6/04 3:17 PM:
>
> > Hi John (troll),
> > Because diesel engines run too dirty for our environment, as soon
> > as these emission laws are enforced they won't be allowed anywhere:
> > http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/light.html :-)
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > John Roche wrote:
> >>
> >> Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of
state? Is
> >> there some reason you could not register it in NY?
> >>
> >> Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
> >>
> >> j
>

Re: Liberty CRD
 

Don't take it personally. He thinks he sees troll posts all the time.

-John

"John Roche" <jroche@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BD8A09F8.75065%jroche@nyc.rr.com...
> What about my question struck you as a troll post?
>
> If what you say is true, why is Jeep even making the CRD?
>
> John
>
> L.W. ------ III (ßill) wrote on 10/6/04 3:17 PM:
>
> > Hi John (troll),
> > Because diesel engines run too dirty for our environment, as soon
> > as these emission laws are enforced they won't be allowed anywhere:
> > http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/light.html :-)
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > John Roche wrote:
> >>
> >> Why are these not available in NY and can one be purchased out of
state? Is
> >> there some reason you could not register it in NY?
> >>
> >> Anyone know pricing or has it not been announced.
> >>
> >> j
>

Re: Liberty CRD
 

> >
> > If what you say is true, why is Jeep even making the CRD?

Because it's not. Buying the VM engined Liberty might not be a good
choice as an offroad vehicle, but because it uses less fuel it's the
most socially responsible vehicle Jeep makes. If electronic engines
were my forte, I'd have imported one of these from Italy or the UK a
long time ago. Most of VM's engines have a hell for stout reputation
and are sold in many different car brands in Europe.

This is the same technology as the Duramax uses. The Duramax is the
quietest running smoothest and least stinky diesel on the US road so
far...but it's way too big for a Jeep. Half a Duramax, particularly
with an aluminum block to match its heads, would be a really great
engine.

Common rail technology was invented by the Italians and it's become
the dominant thing everywhere. Its only disadvantage is that like all
the gas engines today it's electronic. Box goes, you walk home. The
old diesels were fully mechanical. They would get you back electrics
or no electrics. But their power was nothing like the new engines,
which are beating gasoline for power to weight.

Re: Liberty CRD
 

> >
> > If what you say is true, why is Jeep even making the CRD?

Because it's not. Buying the VM engined Liberty might not be a good
choice as an offroad vehicle, but because it uses less fuel it's the
most socially responsible vehicle Jeep makes. If electronic engines
were my forte, I'd have imported one of these from Italy or the UK a
long time ago. Most of VM's engines have a hell for stout reputation
and are sold in many different car brands in Europe.

This is the same technology as the Duramax uses. The Duramax is the
quietest running smoothest and least stinky diesel on the US road so
far...but it's way too big for a Jeep. Half a Duramax, particularly
with an aluminum block to match its heads, would be a really great
engine.

Common rail technology was invented by the Italians and it's become
the dominant thing everywhere. Its only disadvantage is that like all
the gas engines today it's electronic. Box goes, you walk home. The
old diesels were fully mechanical. They would get you back electrics
or no electrics. But their power was nothing like the new engines,
which are beating gasoline for power to weight.

Re: Liberty CRD
 

> >
> > If what you say is true, why is Jeep even making the CRD?

Because it's not. Buying the VM engined Liberty might not be a good
choice as an offroad vehicle, but because it uses less fuel it's the
most socially responsible vehicle Jeep makes. If electronic engines
were my forte, I'd have imported one of these from Italy or the UK a
long time ago. Most of VM's engines have a hell for stout reputation
and are sold in many different car brands in Europe.

This is the same technology as the Duramax uses. The Duramax is the
quietest running smoothest and least stinky diesel on the US road so
far...but it's way too big for a Jeep. Half a Duramax, particularly
with an aluminum block to match its heads, would be a really great
engine.

Common rail technology was invented by the Italians and it's become
the dominant thing everywhere. Its only disadvantage is that like all
the gas engines today it's electronic. Box goes, you walk home. The
old diesels were fully mechanical. They would get you back electrics
or no electrics. But their power was nothing like the new engines,
which are beating gasoline for power to weight.

Re: Liberty CRD
 

Hi Dave,
With Horsepower comes torque such as this Chevy Rat motor with a
respectable 828 horsepower at 7000 rpm and 692 lb-ft of torque at 5250
rpm: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/50660/ Where the diesel truck's
engine wieghts twice as much, and only delivers half the horsepower and
torque, but at a lower RPM: http://www.6066gmctrucks.org/Diesel.htm
that's why we need eighteen speeds to go sixty miles and hour:
http://www.----------.com/kenworth.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

Dave Milne wrote:
>
> I like diesels, but I cant think of one that beats petrol power to weight.
> torque to weight maybe, but not power.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

Re: Liberty CRD
 

Hi Dave,
With Horsepower comes torque such as this Chevy Rat motor with a
respectable 828 horsepower at 7000 rpm and 692 lb-ft of torque at 5250
rpm: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/50660/ Where the diesel truck's
engine wieghts twice as much, and only delivers half the horsepower and
torque, but at a lower RPM: http://www.6066gmctrucks.org/Diesel.htm
that's why we need eighteen speeds to go sixty miles and hour:
http://www.----------.com/kenworth.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

Dave Milne wrote:
>
> I like diesels, but I cant think of one that beats petrol power to weight.
> torque to weight maybe, but not power.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

Re: Liberty CRD
 

Hi Dave,
With Horsepower comes torque such as this Chevy Rat motor with a
respectable 828 horsepower at 7000 rpm and 692 lb-ft of torque at 5250
rpm: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/50660/ Where the diesel truck's
engine wieghts twice as much, and only delivers half the horsepower and
torque, but at a lower RPM: http://www.6066gmctrucks.org/Diesel.htm
that's why we need eighteen speeds to go sixty miles and hour:
http://www.----------.com/kenworth.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

Dave Milne wrote:
>
> I like diesels, but I cant think of one that beats petrol power to weight.
> torque to weight maybe, but not power.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

Re: Liberty CRD
 

I like diesels, but I cant think of one that beats petrol power to weight.
torque to weight maybe, but not power.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"Ted Azito" <larboard34@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b53da461.0410152254.3e28801a@posting.google.c om...
> > >
> > > If what you say is true, why is Jeep even making the CRD?
>
> Because it's not. Buying the VM engined Liberty might not be a good
> choice as an offroad vehicle, but because it uses less fuel it's the
> most socially responsible vehicle Jeep makes. If electronic engines
> were my forte, I'd have imported one of these from Italy or the UK a
> long time ago. Most of VM's engines have a hell for stout reputation
> and are sold in many different car brands in Europe.
>
> This is the same technology as the Duramax uses. The Duramax is the
> quietest running smoothest and least stinky diesel on the US road so
> far...but it's way too big for a Jeep. Half a Duramax, particularly
> with an aluminum block to match its heads, would be a really great
> engine.
>
> Common rail technology was invented by the Italians and it's become
> the dominant thing everywhere. Its only disadvantage is that like all
> the gas engines today it's electronic. Box goes, you walk home. The
> old diesels were fully mechanical. They would get you back electrics
> or no electrics. But their power was nothing like the new engines,
> which are beating gasoline for power to weight.

Re: Liberty CRD
 

I like diesels, but I cant think of one that beats petrol power to weight.
torque to weight maybe, but not power.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"Ted Azito" <larboard34@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b53da461.0410152254.3e28801a@posting.google.c om...
> > >
> > > If what you say is true, why is Jeep even making the CRD?
>
> Because it's not. Buying the VM engined Liberty might not be a good
> choice as an offroad vehicle, but because it uses less fuel it's the
> most socially responsible vehicle Jeep makes. If electronic engines
> were my forte, I'd have imported one of these from Italy or the UK a
> long time ago. Most of VM's engines have a hell for stout reputation
> and are sold in many different car brands in Europe.
>
> This is the same technology as the Duramax uses. The Duramax is the
> quietest running smoothest and least stinky diesel on the US road so
> far...but it's way too big for a Jeep. Half a Duramax, particularly
> with an aluminum block to match its heads, would be a really great
> engine.
>
> Common rail technology was invented by the Italians and it's become
> the dominant thing everywhere. Its only disadvantage is that like all
> the gas engines today it's electronic. Box goes, you walk home. The
> old diesels were fully mechanical. They would get you back electrics
> or no electrics. But their power was nothing like the new engines,
> which are beating gasoline for power to weight.

Re: Liberty CRD
 

I like diesels, but I cant think of one that beats petrol power to weight.
torque to weight maybe, but not power.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"Ted Azito" <larboard34@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b53da461.0410152254.3e28801a@posting.google.c om...
> > >
> > > If what you say is true, why is Jeep even making the CRD?
>
> Because it's not. Buying the VM engined Liberty might not be a good
> choice as an offroad vehicle, but because it uses less fuel it's the
> most socially responsible vehicle Jeep makes. If electronic engines
> were my forte, I'd have imported one of these from Italy or the UK a
> long time ago. Most of VM's engines have a hell for stout reputation
> and are sold in many different car brands in Europe.
>
> This is the same technology as the Duramax uses. The Duramax is the
> quietest running smoothest and least stinky diesel on the US road so
> far...but it's way too big for a Jeep. Half a Duramax, particularly
> with an aluminum block to match its heads, would be a really great
> engine.
>
> Common rail technology was invented by the Italians and it's become
> the dominant thing everywhere. Its only disadvantage is that like all
> the gas engines today it's electronic. Box goes, you walk home. The
> old diesels were fully mechanical. They would get you back electrics
> or no electrics. But their power was nothing like the new engines,
> which are beating gasoline for power to weight.

Re: Liberty CRD
 

You are not figuring Power to Weight to Time. An 855 Cummins will run-judging
by genset ratings-at 300 hp for somewhere between thirty to fifty thousand
hours TBO.

An 828 hp Chevy 'Rat' "motor" will run at this power setting for...I don't
know but seriously doubt ten hours. Maybe not one. It will probably run at the
aforementioned 300 hp for a thousand.

When you start figuring the weight of the engine itself plus the fuel to run
it any given number of horsepower-hours, the Chevy looks quite poor indeed.
BSFC of a naturally aspirated two valve pushrod engine running at 2 hp/CID has
to be unbelievably bad, for one thing the engine has to be running very rich to
keep the exhaust valves from blowing out the ports as molten slag. Water
methanol injection could help but figure the cost of methanol and (it had best
be) DI or distilled water,to say nothing of weight and supply...

As an aside this 828 hp out of 454 cid is not respectable at all as current F1
engines are making more than that out of a third the displacement. On gasoline.

Re: Liberty CRD
 

You are not figuring Power to Weight to Time. An 855 Cummins will run-judging
by genset ratings-at 300 hp for somewhere between thirty to fifty thousand
hours TBO.

An 828 hp Chevy 'Rat' "motor" will run at this power setting for...I don't
know but seriously doubt ten hours. Maybe not one. It will probably run at the
aforementioned 300 hp for a thousand.

When you start figuring the weight of the engine itself plus the fuel to run
it any given number of horsepower-hours, the Chevy looks quite poor indeed.
BSFC of a naturally aspirated two valve pushrod engine running at 2 hp/CID has
to be unbelievably bad, for one thing the engine has to be running very rich to
keep the exhaust valves from blowing out the ports as molten slag. Water
methanol injection could help but figure the cost of methanol and (it had best
be) DI or distilled water,to say nothing of weight and supply...

As an aside this 828 hp out of 454 cid is not respectable at all as current F1
engines are making more than that out of a third the displacement. On gasoline.

Re: Liberty CRD
 

You are not figuring Power to Weight to Time. An 855 Cummins will run-judging
by genset ratings-at 300 hp for somewhere between thirty to fifty thousand
hours TBO.

An 828 hp Chevy 'Rat' "motor" will run at this power setting for...I don't
know but seriously doubt ten hours. Maybe not one. It will probably run at the
aforementioned 300 hp for a thousand.

When you start figuring the weight of the engine itself plus the fuel to run
it any given number of horsepower-hours, the Chevy looks quite poor indeed.
BSFC of a naturally aspirated two valve pushrod engine running at 2 hp/CID has
to be unbelievably bad, for one thing the engine has to be running very rich to
keep the exhaust valves from blowing out the ports as molten slag. Water
methanol injection could help but figure the cost of methanol and (it had best
be) DI or distilled water,to say nothing of weight and supply...

As an aside this 828 hp out of 454 cid is not respectable at all as current F1
engines are making more than that out of a third the displacement. On gasoline.

Re: Liberty CRD
 

The biggest modern diesel I could find is the VW Phaeton, which puts
out 553 lb/ft torque from about 360 ci, or 1.536 lb/ft per ci in a
production
car. The hot rod motor puts out 1.281 lb/ft or 83% of the VWs efficiency.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:4170FFCC.B854E26D@cox.net...

> Hi Dave,
> With Horsepower comes torque such as this Chevy Rat motor with a
> respectable 828 horsepower at 7000 rpm and 692 lb-ft of torque at 5250
> rpm: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/50660/ Where the diesel truck's
> engine wieghts twice as much, and only delivers half the horsepower and
> torque, but at a lower RPM: http://www.6066gmctrucks.org/Diesel.htm
> that's why we need eighteen speeds to go sixty miles and hour:
> http://www.----------.com/kenworth.jpg
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
> >
> > I like diesels, but I cant think of one that beats petrol power to
weight.
> > torque to weight maybe, but not power.
> >
> > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

Re: Liberty CRD
 

The biggest modern diesel I could find is the VW Phaeton, which puts
out 553 lb/ft torque from about 360 ci, or 1.536 lb/ft per ci in a
production
car. The hot rod motor puts out 1.281 lb/ft or 83% of the VWs efficiency.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:4170FFCC.B854E26D@cox.net...

> Hi Dave,
> With Horsepower comes torque such as this Chevy Rat motor with a
> respectable 828 horsepower at 7000 rpm and 692 lb-ft of torque at 5250
> rpm: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/50660/ Where the diesel truck's
> engine wieghts twice as much, and only delivers half the horsepower and
> torque, but at a lower RPM: http://www.6066gmctrucks.org/Diesel.htm
> that's why we need eighteen speeds to go sixty miles and hour:
> http://www.----------.com/kenworth.jpg
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
> >
> > I like diesels, but I cant think of one that beats petrol power to
weight.
> > torque to weight maybe, but not power.
> >
> > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

Re: Liberty CRD
 

The biggest modern diesel I could find is the VW Phaeton, which puts
out 553 lb/ft torque from about 360 ci, or 1.536 lb/ft per ci in a
production
car. The hot rod motor puts out 1.281 lb/ft or 83% of the VWs efficiency.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:4170FFCC.B854E26D@cox.net...

> Hi Dave,
> With Horsepower comes torque such as this Chevy Rat motor with a
> respectable 828 horsepower at 7000 rpm and 692 lb-ft of torque at 5250
> rpm: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/50660/ Where the diesel truck's
> engine wieghts twice as much, and only delivers half the horsepower and
> torque, but at a lower RPM: http://www.6066gmctrucks.org/Diesel.htm
> that's why we need eighteen speeds to go sixty miles and hour:
> http://www.----------.com/kenworth.jpg
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
> >
> > I like diesels, but I cant think of one that beats petrol power to
weight.
> > torque to weight maybe, but not power.
> >
> > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ