Paul Brogren

I know I know!. My wife wants a 4 runner. I wnat a Grand Ch. Which can go
farther off road? This is how I need to do the sales pitch to the wifey.
The most capable vehicle wins. We will be buying a pre-owned truck. any
ways. Give me the pro's and cons.


--
Thanks Always !!!
Paul '75 CJ5 258
Vail, CO.

DougW

L.W. (ßill) ------ III wrote:
> Buying a Japanese car is un-American.

These days quite a few vehicles and major sub components
are made in Mexico, Canada, and Japan. I'd love to buy
American, but not if the quality sucks. Letting American
builders slide by with ill fitting vehicles is un-American.

Back to the OPs question:

Grands are very capable but if you want to get
the most of them off-road get a selec-track or
command-track xfr case (something with Part Time 4WD)
The Quadratrack/Quadradrive is a full time 4WD which
means it doesn't lock (except maby in Low range). This
is necissary if your trying to get the maximum grip.
Also you will need to have front and rear lockers
to get the full benefit offroading. For general purpose
snow/muck/etc, the quadratrack/quadradrive with limited
slip rear works well.

The I6 (the newer V6) and the V8 are all good engines.

My suggestion is test drive them both. The 4runner isn't
a slouch either. Not as familiar with it as the ZJ but you
might want to check out the other 4X4 newsgroups.

Off road ability is about 50% vehicle, 50% driver skill,
and 10% wahooo! :)


> Paul Brogren wrote:
>>
>> I know I know!. My wife wants a 4 runner. I wnat a Grand Ch. Which can go
>> farther off road? This is how I need to do the sales pitch to the wifey.
>> The most capable vehicle wins. We will be buying a pre-owned truck. any
>> ways. Give me the pro's and cons.
>>
>> --
>> Thanks Always !!!
>> Paul '75 CJ5 258
>> Vail, CO.

Lon Stowell

Approximately 8/11/03 23:22, Paul Brogren uttered for posterity:

> I know I know!. My wife wants a 4 runner. I wnat a Grand Ch. Which can go
> farther off road? This is how I need to do the sales pitch to the wifey.
> The most capable vehicle wins. We will be buying a pre-owned truck. any
> ways. Give me the pro's and cons.
>
>
Both will go quite a distance off road. More importantly,
both will have reasonably decent odds of making it back to
the road.

The Toyota is very likely to be priced well above a GC,
even a Limited, for any given used year. The difference
should be enough to add lift, shocks, etc. to the GC so
it is likely to be capable of even *more* offroad.

Look for a cherry GC Limited with the biggest V8 you
can find and let her play with it on a test drive...say
against the slow-assed Toyota 4Runner in the next lane.
Even the 4.0 GC is faster than the older 4Runners--they
are too heavy for their engine.

The GC Limited also tends to be a lot nicer inside,
and a bit nicer ride which can get even nicer with
Edelbrock IAS shocks or Rancho RSX or even Rancho
RS9000X with in-cab adjust.

Make sure the GC has the trailer tow package, 3.73
rear axle.

Mike Romain

I have some photos of some Grands from this newsgroup 'out playing'....

I could post them over on alt.binaries.pictures.autos.4x4 or email them
to you. They aren't too big.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Paul Brogren wrote:
>
> I know I know!. My wife wants a 4 runner. I wnat a Grand Ch. Which can go
> farther off road? This is how I need to do the sales pitch to the wifey.
> The most capable vehicle wins. We will be buying a pre-owned truck. any
> ways. Give me the pro's and cons.
>
> --
> Thanks Always !!!
> Paul '75 CJ5 258
> Vail, CO.

Larry Greenwood

I compared the two before buying a new GC.

About the 4Runner.
No interior dual temperature control system, meaning that heating or cooling
is spotty and depending upon where you are setting. The GC limited has dual
temperature control that seems to work well in all weather conditions.

4runner is difficult to get into or out of for me. The running boards help
but will get your pant leg dirty if they are dirty and there is no way to
avoid them and without them the 4runner may be too high for some. The GC is
easy to access without running boards. They need to either lower the
4runner or include a stepping stool.

Up to this year, 4runners were underpowered but now you can get a v8, and if
you do then you need to also get the five speed automatic for maximum fuel
economy. There is a new one with the larger engine and five speed
transmission on the lot here for under $30,000.

No compass, thermometer, mpg calculator.

The god awfullest fabric seat covers that seem to resist a good cleaning.

History of a rust problems with the back window. (But Maybe they got it
taken care of.)

Don't know if they finally took care of the sagging problem with the rear
end.

Spare tire is underneath the rear rather than inside.

These are a few things that bothered me.

If you look at Edmunds comparisons, you will see a higher customer
satisfaction with the 4runner than the JGC. And better resale value than
JGC. So you can get a very well equipped preowned GC for a lot less than a
4runner.

One of most annoying problem with toyota ownership (my experience), is that
everything is ok until there is a warranty problem. Then it seems that
toyota goes into denial about having any mechanical problems with their
vehicle. I had a six month old muffler on a new camry rust through and
needed to be replaced. It took several visits before they would replace
the muffler under the new car warranty.

Larry

"Paul Brogren" <pibrogren@msn.com> wrote in message
news:bha0ss$vtgu5$1@ID-190695.news.uni-berlin.de...
> I know I know!. My wife wants a 4 runner. I wnat a Grand Ch. Which can
go
> farther off road? This is how I need to do the sales pitch to the wifey.
> The most capable vehicle wins. We will be buying a pre-owned truck. any
> ways. Give me the pro's and cons.
>
>
> --
> Thanks Always !!!
> Paul '75 CJ5 258
> Vail, CO.
>
>

Mike Polo

> Don't know if they finally took care of the sagging problem with the rear
> end.
>
Yeah, they did that with the 1990 version when they switched to coil
springs. I'd double check some of these comments based on their age... most
of them apply to my 1987 4Runner, but not necessarily to a more modern
4Runner. I bought mine used about 5 or 6 years ago... 4cyl engine, 5 speed,
SR5 edition (the one with the cute altimeter-inclinometer built in). It now
has over 162,000 miles on it, some of it serious off-road hauling, some of
it trailer towing over mountains, and some of it around town. When my boy
gets done driving it (assuming he leaves it reasonably intact) I'll probably
retire it to my place in the mountains as a work-truck. That thing has done
everything I've asked it to do, bone stock, including hauling downed trees
up muddy hillsides and along mountains roads. Aftermarket parts are
available to lift them and modify them just like Jeeps and quite a few
people use them rock-crawling out in Colorado and New Mexico. With good
tires and lockers, they're exceptionally capable off-road, particularly due
to their high clearance (at least the older ones).

Toyotas are tough vehicles, built to last. Would I buy one again?
Betcherass. Would I trade my TJ for one? No way. Two different animals. I
don't know the GC, but I know this... properly maintained, a Toyota will
probably last twice as long.

Larry Greenwood

Well said. I must admit that the new v8 and five speed auto and the under
$30,000 price after dealer discounts that I am seeing should make DC stand
up and take notice. All of that and attention to detail and trim makes the
choice between GC and the 4runner a difficult decison. Now if Toyota would
get better seat fabric and an easier way of getting in and out the GC days
may be numbered. However, I think the GC is better looking from a distance.

Larry

"Mike Polo" <mikepolo@communitytheater.org> wrote in message
news:cwg_a.393$jw4.105@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
> > Don't know if they finally took care of the sagging problem with the
rear
> > end.
> >
> Yeah, they did that with the 1990 version when they switched to coil
> springs. I'd double check some of these comments based on their age...
most
> of them apply to my 1987 4Runner, but not necessarily to a more modern
> 4Runner. I bought mine used about 5 or 6 years ago... 4cyl engine, 5
speed,
> SR5 edition (the one with the cute altimeter-inclinometer built in). It
now
> has over 162,000 miles on it, some of it serious off-road hauling, some of
> it trailer towing over mountains, and some of it around town. When my boy
> gets done driving it (assuming he leaves it reasonably intact) I'll
probably
> retire it to my place in the mountains as a work-truck. That thing has
done
> everything I've asked it to do, bone stock, including hauling downed trees
> up muddy hillsides and along mountains roads. Aftermarket parts are
> available to lift them and modify them just like Jeeps and quite a few
> people use them rock-crawling out in Colorado and New Mexico. With good
> tires and lockers, they're exceptionally capable off-road, particularly
due
> to their high clearance (at least the older ones).
>
> Toyotas are tough vehicles, built to last. Would I buy one again?
> Betcherass. Would I trade my TJ for one? No way. Two different animals. I
> don't know the GC, but I know this... properly maintained, a Toyota will
> probably last twice as long.
>
>