Re: Jeep CJ7 won't start/crank, CO just abuses vehicles
 

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:05:37 -0800, "Stupidman------Fighter of POSs
24Wimp & SWimp" <----------@----------.com> wrote:

> http://www.----------.com/steeringColumn.pdf
> Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:----------@----------.com

Hell yeah, listen to ------, burn up your electrical system, he
doesn't give a ----!!!
He can't even correct his girlie errors.
>
><rcawrse@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:4e6d6834-36b0-4aaf-be9e-bce80582b060@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>How does the sliding adjustment on the ignition switch work just in
>case I can't figure it out?
>
>Thanks,
>Rob
>
>
>
>
>

Re: Jeep CJ7 won't start/crank, CO just abuses vehicles
 

On Jan 10, 8:48 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> rcaw...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Jan 9, 8:38 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >> Your steering column has nothing to do with the ignition switch, it's
> >> not inside there. The switch sits on top of the column way down at the
> >> bottom and a rod goes from the switch to the key. Now the connecting
> >> rod might have been sloppy, but...
>
> >> The switches do get out of adjustment from wear on the linkage rods so
> >> it has a sliding adjustment on the switch.
>
> >> I would start down there.
>
> >> I really don't understand how the fuel pump can come on when you push
> >> the clutch. CJ's don't have any clutch switches in them that I know of.
>
> >> On a normal CJ, I would say check the connections on the starter
> >> solenoid on the fender for a bad connection.
>
> >> One of the best 'inexpensive' books for your CJ7 is the Haynes manual.
> >> It is spot on for wiring diagrams.
>
> >> Mike
> >> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >> 'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build
> >> Photos:http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com
>
> >> rcaw...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> The dilemma was that first my CJ& would not get power at all when the
> >>> key was in the ACC position, I had the steering column rebuilt and
> >>> reinstalled everything. The voltmeter reads 12 volts from the battery
> >>> which I had tested and recharged today.
> >>> When I turn the key to start thejeepI do not hear anything except
> >>> crickets.
> >>> I am new to troubleshooting jeeps and picked up a voltmeter today. All
> >>> the fuses looked god when I checked them.
> >>> Also myjeepis fuel injected if that makes a difference and I can
> >>> hear the fuel pump turn on when I push in the clutch.
> >>> Any help and suggestions would be much appreciated.
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Rob- Hide quoted text -
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > I will check my Haynes manual and start with the safety switch
> > assuming I can find it, I have tried both the old and a new ignition
> > switch with no luck, I will look at the ignition switch again as well
> > but it seemed to be installed correctly. I cleaned all the connections
> > on the solenoid already and used the AC range set at 750 to check
> > voltage? is that right, anyway the battery read 26 as did the positive
> > side of the solenoid and the black I assume negative cable from the
> > solenoid to the starter.
>
> You need your meter set to 20 V DC. The 'power' or positive wire to the
> starter from the solenoid only sees 12 volts when the key is switch to
> 'start'.
>
> There is no safety switch in a 'stock' CJ7 with a standard tranny. An
> automatic has a neutral safety switch so it only starts in neutral or park..
>
> There are no switches on the clutch or brake that affect starting in a
> 'stock' CJ7.
>
> A CJ7 does 'not' have an electric fuel pump stock, it is mechanical.
>
> They did not put Fuel Injection into a 'Stock' CJ7.
>
> Just what engine is in that thing anyway?
>
> When you turn the key on, do any lights on the dash light up?
>
> Mike- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I figured out the voltmeter and was getting 12 volts from the battery,
solenoid connection, and starter connection when the key is in the
start position. It is a manual transmission and is fuel injected with
a 6 cylinder, I beleive it is a 4.2L. Yes when I turn the key to the
on position the dsah lights up and the headlights work well. Thanks
for the heads up on th neutral safety switch one less thing to worry
about/check. There was a plug type of connection mounted to the engine
block a few inches above the starter. I took this apart and it was
pretty corroded. I cleaned it as best I could, any ideas what it is
and should I just replace it. What are my next steps? Probably working
on the ignition switch further and the replacing the solenoid and
starter? Anything else to check with the voltmeter and if so please
explain how. Your guys help is greatly appreciated.

Rob

Re: Jeep CJ7 won't start/crank, CO just abuses vehicles
 

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008, Mike Romain wrote:

> You need your meter set to 20 V DC. The 'power' or positive wire to the
> starter from the solenoid only sees 12 volts when the key is switch to
> 'start'.
>
> There is no safety switch in a 'stock' CJ7 with a standard tranny. An
> automatic has a neutral safety switch so it only starts in neutral or park.
>
> There are no switches on the clutch or brake that affect starting in a
> 'stock' CJ7.
>
> A CJ7 does 'not' have an electric fuel pump stock, it is mechanical.
>
> They did not put Fuel Injection into a 'Stock' CJ7.

I was guessing about CJs later than 1980. His statement about hearing the
fuel pump when he presses the clutch was what lead me down that path.

Re: Jeep CJ7 won't start/crank, CO just abuses vehicles
 

Lee Ayrton wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008, Mike Romain wrote:
>
>> You need your meter set to 20 V DC. The 'power' or positive wire to
>> the starter from the solenoid only sees 12 volts when the key is
>> switch to 'start'.
>>
>> There is no safety switch in a 'stock' CJ7 with a standard tranny. An
>> automatic has a neutral safety switch so it only starts in neutral or
>> park.
>>
>> There are no switches on the clutch or brake that affect starting in a
>> 'stock' CJ7.
>>
>> A CJ7 does 'not' have an electric fuel pump stock, it is mechanical.
>>
>> They did not put Fuel Injection into a 'Stock' CJ7.
>
> I was guessing about CJs later than 1980. His statement about hearing
> the fuel pump when he presses the clutch was what lead me down that path.
>
>
I am almost wondering if he has a CJ7 or maybe something else? Even the
first of the YJ Wranglers had a carb 258 engine up 'til 91.

If he has a custom job like it is sounding, then 'ouch' I wish him luck.

Mike

Re: Jeep CJ7 won't start/crank, CO just abuses vehicles
 

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008, rcawrse@gmail.com wrote:

> I figured out the voltmeter and was getting 12 volts from the battery,
> solenoid connection, and starter connection when the key is in the
> start position.

Lots of useful images here:
http://www.geocities.com/cantwait_forviolence/nav.html

This one shows the starter solenoid installed:
http://www.geocities.com/cantwait_fo...solenoid_2.jpg

And one taken apart to show how it works:
http://www.geocities.com/jeep_resour...d_summary1.jpg

When you turn the key to START you should see +12V at all the terminals,
and since this is essentially a big relay, you should hear a solid thunk
when it pulls in. But earlier you said that you heard nothing when you
turn the key to START. I'd give a hairy eyeball to the solenoid. Just
because it shows 12V doesn't mean it can carry the current.

Starter diagram:
http://www.geocities.com/jeep_resour...loded_diag.gif


> It is a manual transmission and is fuel injected with
> a 6 cylinder, I beleive it is a 4.2L. Yes when I turn the key to the
> on position the dsah lights up and the headlights work well. Thanks
> for the heads up on th neutral safety switch one less thing to worry
> about/check. There was a plug type of connection mounted to the engine
> block a few inches above the starter. I took this apart and it was
> pretty corroded. I cleaned it as best I could, any ideas what it is
> and should I just replace it.

Is this your motor, seen from the passenger side?
http://www.offroaders.com/tech/jeep/Motor4.jpg

If the connector you cleaned was just above and behind the oil filter
cannister then it was the sender for your oil pressure gauge.


> What are my next steps? Probably working
> on the ignition switch further and the replacing the solenoid and
> starter? Anything else to check with the voltmeter and if so please
> explain how. Your guys help is greatly appreciated.

Check the negative battery cable at the block, clean all faces and
retighten.

Re: Jeep CJ7 won't start/crank, CO just abuses vehicles
 

On Jan 11, 3:23 pm, Lee Ayrton <layr...@panix.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008, rcaw...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I figured out the voltmeter and was getting 12 volts from the battery,
> > solenoid connection, and starter connection when the key is in the
> > start position.
>
> Lots of useful images here:http://www.geocities.com/cantwait_forviolence/nav.html
>
> This one shows the starter solenoid installed:http://www.geocities.com/cantwait_fo..._jeep/solenoid...
>
> And one taken apart to show how it works:http://www.geocities.com/jeep_resour...d_summary1.jpg
>
> When you turn the key to START you should see +12V at all the terminals,
> and since this is essentially a big relay, you should hear a solid thunk
> when it pulls in. But earlier you said that you heard nothing when you
> turn the key to START. I'd give a hairy eyeball to the solenoid. Just
> because it shows 12V doesn't mean it can carry the current.
>
> Starter diagram:http://www.geocities.com/jeep_resour...loded_diag.gif
>
> > It is a manual transmission and is fuel injected with
> > a 6 cylinder, I beleive it is a 4.2L. Yes when I turn the key to the
> > on position the dsah lights up and the headlights work well. Thanks
> > for the heads up on th neutral safety switch one less thing to worry
> > about/check. There was a plug type of connection mounted to the engine
> > block a few inches above the starter. I took this apart and it was
> > pretty corroded. I cleaned it as best I could, any ideas what it is
> > and should I just replace it.
>
> Is this your motor, seen from the passenger side?http://www.offroaders.com/tech/jeep/Motor4.jpg
>
> If the connector you cleaned was just above and behind the oil filter
> cannister then it was the sender for your oil pressure gauge.
>
> > What are my next steps? Probably working
> > on the ignition switch further and the replacing the solenoid and
> > starter? Anything else to check with the voltmeter and if so please
> > explain how. Your guys help is greatly appreciated.
>
> Check the negative battery cable at the block, clean all faces and
> retighten.

First, be sure you're battery is delivering enough amps to turn the
starter motor. Get it checked at a parts shop if you have any doubt.
Once you've done that, performs Lee's step above and clean the
negative battery cable at the block. If the cable looks fishy/
corroded, replace it.

With the key in the ON position, put the jeep in Neutral, hand brake
on, block the wheels. Put a jumper across the terminals on the
Solenoid (or bridge with a big screwdriver), and see if it tries to
crank. If it does, its probably the ignition switch that's giving you
your problems. If it doesn't, then it likely Starter or Solenoid
(assuming you've performed Lee's recommendation above and eliminated
the possibility of a bad ground/ground battery cable).

Good luck.

S.

Re: Jeep CJ7 won't start/crank, CO just abuses vehicles
 

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008, fraserwag wrote:

> On Jan 11, 3:23 pm, Lee Ayrton <layr...@panix.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008, rcaw...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I figured out the voltmeter and was getting 12 volts from the battery,
>>> solenoid connection, and starter connection when the key is in the
>>> start position.
>>
>> Lots of useful images here:http://www.geocities.com/cantwait_forviolence/nav.html
>>
>> This one shows the starter solenoid installed:http://www.geocities.com/cantwait_fo..._jeep/solenoid...
>>
>> And one taken apart to show how it works:http://www.geocities.com/jeep_resour...d_summary1.jpg
>>
>> When you turn the key to START you should see +12V at all the terminals,
>> and since this is essentially a big relay, you should hear a solid thunk
>> when it pulls in. But earlier you said that you heard nothing when you
>> turn the key to START. I'd give a hairy eyeball to the solenoid. Just
>> because it shows 12V doesn't mean it can carry the current.
>>
>> Starter diagram:http://www.geocities.com/jeep_resour...loded_diag.gif
>>
>>> It is a manual transmission and is fuel injected with
>>> a 6 cylinder, I beleive it is a 4.2L. Yes when I turn the key to the
>>> on position the dsah lights up and the headlights work well. Thanks
>>> for the heads up on th neutral safety switch one less thing to worry
>>> about/check. There was a plug type of connection mounted to the engine
>>> block a few inches above the starter. I took this apart and it was
>>> pretty corroded. I cleaned it as best I could, any ideas what it is
>>> and should I just replace it.
>>
>> Is this your motor, seen from the passenger side?http://www.offroaders.com/tech/jeep/Motor4.jpg
>>
>> If the connector you cleaned was just above and behind the oil filter
>> cannister then it was the sender for your oil pressure gauge.
>>
>>> What are my next steps? Probably working
>>> on the ignition switch further and the replacing the solenoid and
>>> starter? Anything else to check with the voltmeter and if so please
>>> explain how. Your guys help is greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Check the negative battery cable at the block, clean all faces and
>> retighten.
>
> First, be sure you're battery is delivering enough amps to turn the
> starter motor. Get it checked at a parts shop if you have any doubt.
> Once you've done that, performs Lee's step above and clean the
> negative battery cable at the block. If the cable looks fishy/
> corroded, replace it.

There's an even quicker (but less precise) field test for the battery: The
headlights.

Turn the headlights on. Turn the key to START. If the headlights go out
either the battery is bad or there's a corroded connection at one end of a
battery cable, one that can carry enough current for the lights but not
the 100-odd amps needed to crank the engine. Check the cables (both ends)
and try again.



> With the key in the ON position, put the jeep in Neutral, hand brake
> on, block the wheels. Put a jumper across the terminals on the
> Solenoid (or bridge with a big screwdriver), and see if it tries to
> crank. If it does, its probably the ignition switch that's giving you
> your problems. If it doesn't, then it likely Starter or Solenoid
> (assuming you've performed Lee's recommendation above and eliminated
> the possibility of a bad ground/ground battery cable).

I'd leave the key OFF, since I'm only testing the starter, I'm unsure of
what I'm doing and I don't want the engine to grab my tie. I wouldn't try
bridging a Ford solenoid with a screw driver, the high-current terminals
are on opposite sides and the frame for the part is grounded.
Spitzensparken. If it were me I'd clamp a jump-start cable to the +
Battery terminal and make contact with the starter side of the solenoid.
If the starter engages and runs it is good, if not it is time to pull it
out.

Re: Jeep CJ7 won't start/crank, CO just abuses vehicles
 

On Jan 12, 8:05 am, Lee Ayrton <layr...@panix.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008, fraserwag wrote:
> > On Jan 11, 3:23 pm, Lee Ayrton <layr...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008, rcaw...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> I figured out the voltmeter and was getting 12 volts from the battery,
> >>> solenoid connection, and starter connection when the key is in the
> >>> start position.
>
> >> Lots of useful images here:http://www.geocities.com/cantwait_forviolence/nav.html
>
> >> This one shows the starter solenoid installed:http://www.geocities.com/cantwait_fo..._jeep/solenoid...
>
> >> And one taken apart to show how it works:http://www.geocities.com/jeep_resour...d_summary1.jpg
>
> >> When you turn the key to START you should see +12V at all the terminals,
> >> and since this is essentially a big relay, you should hear a solid thunk
> >> when it pulls in. But earlier you said that you heard nothing when you
> >> turn the key to START. I'd give a hairy eyeball to the solenoid. Just
> >> because it shows 12V doesn't mean it can carry the current.
>
> >> Starter diagram:http://www.geocities.com/jeep_resour...loded_diag.gif
>
> >>> It is a manual transmission and is fuel injected with
> >>> a 6 cylinder, I beleive it is a 4.2L. Yes when I turn the key to the
> >>> on position the dsah lights up and the headlights work well. Thanks
> >>> for the heads up on th neutral safety switch one less thing to worry
> >>> about/check. There was a plug type of connection mounted to the engine
> >>> block a few inches above the starter. I took this apart and it was
> >>> pretty corroded. I cleaned it as best I could, any ideas what it is
> >>> and should I just replace it.
>
> >> Is this your motor, seen from the passenger side?http://www.offroaders.com/tech/jeep/Motor4.jpg
>
> >> If the connector you cleaned was just above and behind the oil filter
> >> cannister then it was the sender for your oil pressure gauge.
>
> >>> What are my next steps? Probably working
> >>> on the ignition switch further and the replacing the solenoid and
> >>> starter? Anything else to check with the voltmeter and if so please
> >>> explain how. Your guys help is greatly appreciated.
>
> >> Check the negative battery cable at the block, clean all faces and
> >> retighten.
>
> > First, be sure you're battery is delivering enough amps to turn the
> > starter motor. Get it checked at a parts shop if you have any doubt.
> > Once you've done that, performs Lee's step above and clean the
> > negative battery cable at the block. If the cable looks fishy/
> > corroded, replace it.
>
> There's an even quicker (but less precise) field test for the battery: The
> headlights.
>
> Turn the headlights on. Turn the key to START. If the headlights go out
> either the battery is bad or there's a corroded connection at one end of a
> battery cable, one that can carry enough current for the lights but not
> the 100-odd amps needed to crank the engine. Check the cables (both ends)
> and try again.
>
> > With the key in the ON position, put the jeep in Neutral, hand brake
> > on, block the wheels. Put a jumper across the terminals on the
> > Solenoid (or bridge with a big screwdriver), and see if it tries to
> > crank. If it does, its probably the ignition switch that's giving you
> > your problems. If it doesn't, then it likely Starter or Solenoid
> > (assuming you've performed Lee's recommendation above and eliminated
> > the possibility of a bad ground/ground battery cable).
>
> I'd leave the key OFF, since I'm only testing the starter, I'm unsure of
> what I'm doing and I don't want the engine to grab my tie. I wouldn't try
> bridging a Ford solenoid with a screw driver, the high-current terminals
> are on opposite sides and the frame for the part is grounded.
> Spitzensparken. If it were me I'd clamp a jump-start cable to the +
> Battery terminal and make contact with the starter side of the solenoid.
> If the starter engages and runs it is good, if not it is time to pull it
> out.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


So here's an update on the issue, I bridged the solenoid with the key
in the power/on position with a screwdriver and it engaged the
starter. I replaced the solenoid and the starter(as the old starter
was smoking and not disengaging the flywheel.
Now I have two issues. The first is that the newvstarter , still is
not disengaging from the flywheel but is it maybe b/c of the ignition
switch, I set the ignition switch as instructed by the Haynes manual
and when I turn the key to power position(you know to power the dash
etc..) on my jeep it starts the jeep. I am thinking I need to take the
ignition switch down one notch. Would proper ignition switch
engagement disengage the starter or is there a worse problem here?

What happens if you cross your two solenoid terminal wires???

Lastly, and your not gonna beleive this one but when I was screwing
the ignition switch back on the screw snapped off, lucky me anyone
know a quick fix or good way to fix this?

Again thanks for all the helpful feedback,

Rob

Re: Jeep CJ7 won't start/crank, CO just abuses vehicles
 

Rob wrote:
>
> So here's an update on the issue, I bridged the solenoid with the key
> in the power/on position with a screwdriver and it engaged the
> starter. I replaced the solenoid and the starter(as the old starter
> was smoking and not disengaging the flywheel.
> Now I have two issues. The first is that the newvstarter , still is
> not disengaging from the flywheel but is it maybe b/c of the ignition
> switch, I set the ignition switch as instructed by the Haynes manual
> and when I turn the key to power position(you know to power the dash
> etc..) on my jeep it starts the jeep. I am thinking I need to take the
> ignition switch down one notch. Would proper ignition switch
> engagement disengage the starter or is there a worse problem here?
>
> What happens if you cross your two solenoid terminal wires???
>
> Lastly, and your not gonna beleive this one but when I was screwing
> the ignition switch back on the screw snapped off, lucky me anyone
> know a quick fix or good way to fix this?
>
> Again thanks for all the helpful feedback,
>
> Rob

Ouch.

Your ignition switch when set wrong can easily burn up your starter by
leaving it in the 'start' position or cause any other positions not to
be right..

At least it isn't 'too' hard to drop your steering column out to get at
that broken screw. A serious pain in the butt though. I don't know of
any other way to fix that besides drilling it out and maybe tapping the
hole for a larger bolt if you kill the threads.

Have you ever figured out what engine is in that thing?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build
Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com

Re: Jeep CJ7 won't start/crank, CO just abuses vehicles
 

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008, Rob wrote:

> So here's an update on the issue, I bridged the solenoid with the key
> in the power/on position with a screwdriver and it engaged the
> starter. I replaced the solenoid and the starter(as the old starter
> was smoking and not disengaging the flywheel.
> Now I have two issues. The first is that the newvstarter , still is
> not disengaging from the flywheel but is it maybe b/c of the ignition
> switch, I set the ignition switch as instructed by the Haynes manual
> and when I turn the key to power position(you know to power the dash
> etc..) on my jeep it starts the jeep. I am thinking I need to take the
> ignition switch down one notch. Would proper ignition switch
> engagement disengage the starter or is there a worse problem here?

Well that's not good.

Before you do anything else, go to an auto parts store and get a battery
disconnect switch. It doesn't have to be fancy, just one of the kind you
attach to the battery post that has either a thumb screw that you tighten
or a knife switch that you close. Do this so you can disconnect the
battery quickly, before you burn up another starter, set fire to your jeep
or hurt yourself. Batteries /do/ explode if loaded too heavily.

>
> What happens if you cross your two solenoid terminal wires???

Which terminals? The solenoid has four terminals, two large high current
and two smaller low current. One low-current terminal takes a signal from
the START position on the ignition switch to pull in the solenoid. The
other low-current terminal feeds straight battery power to the coil during
starting.


> Lastly, and your not gonna beleive this one but when I was screwing
> the ignition switch back on the screw snapped off, lucky me anyone
> know a quick fix or good way to fix this?

If there's enough of the screw proud of the hole you might be able to cut
a slot in it with the edge of a file or a fine blade and back it out
with a screw driver.