dilla1986

thank you for the detailed response. it is comforting to see a littel
"negative" feedback along with the positive.

Now a question for all. If i want to change out the ignition wiring, i
trust that kit is also available from the typical Jeep OEM suppliers,
Quadratec, J.C. Whitney and 4Wheel parts, etc.

thanks to all for the replies.


"Lee Ayrton" <layrton@panix.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.NEB.4.58.0405070923250.15636@panix3.pani x.com...
>
> I put the factory-preterminated "12 circuit" Painless kit in my `79 CJ-5
> restoration. The kit is very complete and from the firewall back it
> really is quite painless. The under-dash part is clear and easy to
> understand -- but it really pays to pull the dash off and work like a
> gentleman instead of trying to save the effort of pulling the dash.
>
> All of the harness ends, lamp sockets and single wires are labeled with
> 1x1 tags, so you know where everything goes. For the most part, ends are
> terminated in OEM-identical plug connectors, except the volt and oil gauge
> connectors which are ring terminals rather than push-on connectors.
>
> The thru-firewall bulkhead connector fits the OEM hole, but will not mate
> to the OEM connector so you cannot replace only half the harness, you must
> replace the whole system. It also lacks a gasket. I moulded butyl rubber
> (the black tacky stuff used by window installers) around it to caulk it.
>
> Under the hood, it is less painless and grows more painful from left to
> right. The harness is made to fit a very wide range of years (1975 -`86)
> and engines in a perfect example of "one size fits nobody". The lighting
> portion of the harness is easy enough, it follows the standard path along
> the left fender and into the grill. Curiously, it assumes that you'll
> have a fiberglass nose and runs the headlight ground back to the firewall
> (Jeep ran separate headlight grounds to screws on the back of the grill
> on each side) but makes no provision for signal light grounding (on steel
> bodies they ground through their mounting screws). I was not entirely
> comfortable with the wire gauge used for the headlights and felt that it
> could have been heavier.
>
> Because the harness is a universal fit, it is left up to you to route the
> wires to various engine and under-hood accessories. In some cases you'll
> want to break open the loom (split plastic tubing over a harness made up
> with zip-ties and black tape) and insert those wires to keep it neat. I
> did this for my oil and temp senders, for example, which needed to go to
> the right side of the engine. Painless includes extra zip-ties for this
> purpose.
>
> The instructions for the charging system are, quite frankly, a mess. If
> you follow the written instruction as first given you'll end up installing
> a system fuse in a place where it is jumpered by a parallel cable. It is
> only when you read the erratum pages at the /back/ of the manual that you
> find that you should have done it differently, and even there it is a mess
> -- to make it worse, some heavy wires have different numbers on each end.
> The instructions call for splices and doubled-up wiring where it makes no
> sense. My advice here is to break open the Painless harness, study the
> existing alternator harness and if salvageable blend it in to the Painless
> harness, being sure to place the system fuse between the alternator and
> the load.
>
> The Painless harness _does_not_include_ the ignition harness, so don't
> pull it off and throw it away. My `79 used the electronic breakerless
> system with a module bolted to the left fender (your system may vary).
> It does include the feed from the ignition switch to the coil (you must
> install the resistor -- find a place on the firewall where it will not get
> splashed with cold water), a tach feed, and the wire from the starter
> relay to the coil. The wires that should go from the ignition switch to
> the ignition module on my `79 needed to be pulled out of the loom because
> they ran to the right side instead of the left side where they were
> needed. The plastic loom was too small to accept the ignition sub-harness
> and I salvaged the larger OEM loom here to keep things neat and protected.
>
> Back to the ignition resistor: at least for the 1976-82 model span Jeep
> used a resistive wire blended into the harness, not a mounted GM-style
> ceramic resistor. The wire can be found by looking for a piece about 2'
> long spliced into the harness along the firewall, is is stiffer than the
> usual wire and the insulation feels softer and loose on the wire. Don't
> be fooled into thinking that you don't need the resistor just because you
> can't find the ceramic one on your firewall.
>
> On the whole, I found it to be a good product with imperfect documentation
> at a rather steep price (Painless makes harnesses for high-end hotrods
> which seems to be a market with very deep pockets). Engineering support
> was spotty, you can spend quite a lot of time in a hold queue wanting for
> tech support, and at least one tech got rather too defensive when I
> mentioned the lack of clear documentation on the charging system. I know
> that there are two other manufacturers (4WD.com seems to be one) and that
> some here have experience with them. You should comparison shop before
> you decide, but the Painless system is certainly a quality product.
>
>
> On Thu, 6 May 2004, dilla1986 wrote:
>
> > From the multiple cracked wires under my hood, it is time to replace the
> > wires for my '83 CJ-7, 258. I am no electrician but I can follow a map
and
> > in my younger days loved to install stereos, equalizers, amplifiers and
> > speakers. I could use some feedback on the level of difficulty
associated
> > with installing the kit. Is it just going to be a time consuming
meticulous
> > process to follow each wire from the fuse block, etc.
> >
> > Also, I believe the Ignition Control Module is mounted under the dash
and
> > the wires come through the firewall. Is the bundle of wires also
included
> > in the kit?
> >
> > Lastly, due to an oil leak and some nasty looking spark plugs ( oil
fouled)
> > I was considering having the engine rebuilt or even upgrading to a 304.
> > Question is which situation is best: 1.) do I install painless wires
then
> > pull motor, 2.) pull motor, put back in then install wires, or 3.) pull
> > motor, install wires with motor out, then put motor back in?
> >
> > Any and all feedback is needed and appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dilla
> >
> >
> >

dilla1986

thank you for the detailed response. it is comforting to see a littel
"negative" feedback along with the positive.

Now a question for all. If i want to change out the ignition wiring, i
trust that kit is also available from the typical Jeep OEM suppliers,
Quadratec, J.C. Whitney and 4Wheel parts, etc.

thanks to all for the replies.


"Lee Ayrton" <layrton@panix.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.NEB.4.58.0405070923250.15636@panix3.pani x.com...
>
> I put the factory-preterminated "12 circuit" Painless kit in my `79 CJ-5
> restoration. The kit is very complete and from the firewall back it
> really is quite painless. The under-dash part is clear and easy to
> understand -- but it really pays to pull the dash off and work like a
> gentleman instead of trying to save the effort of pulling the dash.
>
> All of the harness ends, lamp sockets and single wires are labeled with
> 1x1 tags, so you know where everything goes. For the most part, ends are
> terminated in OEM-identical plug connectors, except the volt and oil gauge
> connectors which are ring terminals rather than push-on connectors.
>
> The thru-firewall bulkhead connector fits the OEM hole, but will not mate
> to the OEM connector so you cannot replace only half the harness, you must
> replace the whole system. It also lacks a gasket. I moulded butyl rubber
> (the black tacky stuff used by window installers) around it to caulk it.
>
> Under the hood, it is less painless and grows more painful from left to
> right. The harness is made to fit a very wide range of years (1975 -`86)
> and engines in a perfect example of "one size fits nobody". The lighting
> portion of the harness is easy enough, it follows the standard path along
> the left fender and into the grill. Curiously, it assumes that you'll
> have a fiberglass nose and runs the headlight ground back to the firewall
> (Jeep ran separate headlight grounds to screws on the back of the grill
> on each side) but makes no provision for signal light grounding (on steel
> bodies they ground through their mounting screws). I was not entirely
> comfortable with the wire gauge used for the headlights and felt that it
> could have been heavier.
>
> Because the harness is a universal fit, it is left up to you to route the
> wires to various engine and under-hood accessories. In some cases you'll
> want to break open the loom (split plastic tubing over a harness made up
> with zip-ties and black tape) and insert those wires to keep it neat. I
> did this for my oil and temp senders, for example, which needed to go to
> the right side of the engine. Painless includes extra zip-ties for this
> purpose.
>
> The instructions for the charging system are, quite frankly, a mess. If
> you follow the written instruction as first given you'll end up installing
> a system fuse in a place where it is jumpered by a parallel cable. It is
> only when you read the erratum pages at the /back/ of the manual that you
> find that you should have done it differently, and even there it is a mess
> -- to make it worse, some heavy wires have different numbers on each end.
> The instructions call for splices and doubled-up wiring where it makes no
> sense. My advice here is to break open the Painless harness, study the
> existing alternator harness and if salvageable blend it in to the Painless
> harness, being sure to place the system fuse between the alternator and
> the load.
>
> The Painless harness _does_not_include_ the ignition harness, so don't
> pull it off and throw it away. My `79 used the electronic breakerless
> system with a module bolted to the left fender (your system may vary).
> It does include the feed from the ignition switch to the coil (you must
> install the resistor -- find a place on the firewall where it will not get
> splashed with cold water), a tach feed, and the wire from the starter
> relay to the coil. The wires that should go from the ignition switch to
> the ignition module on my `79 needed to be pulled out of the loom because
> they ran to the right side instead of the left side where they were
> needed. The plastic loom was too small to accept the ignition sub-harness
> and I salvaged the larger OEM loom here to keep things neat and protected.
>
> Back to the ignition resistor: at least for the 1976-82 model span Jeep
> used a resistive wire blended into the harness, not a mounted GM-style
> ceramic resistor. The wire can be found by looking for a piece about 2'
> long spliced into the harness along the firewall, is is stiffer than the
> usual wire and the insulation feels softer and loose on the wire. Don't
> be fooled into thinking that you don't need the resistor just because you
> can't find the ceramic one on your firewall.
>
> On the whole, I found it to be a good product with imperfect documentation
> at a rather steep price (Painless makes harnesses for high-end hotrods
> which seems to be a market with very deep pockets). Engineering support
> was spotty, you can spend quite a lot of time in a hold queue wanting for
> tech support, and at least one tech got rather too defensive when I
> mentioned the lack of clear documentation on the charging system. I know
> that there are two other manufacturers (4WD.com seems to be one) and that
> some here have experience with them. You should comparison shop before
> you decide, but the Painless system is certainly a quality product.
>
>
> On Thu, 6 May 2004, dilla1986 wrote:
>
> > From the multiple cracked wires under my hood, it is time to replace the
> > wires for my '83 CJ-7, 258. I am no electrician but I can follow a map
and
> > in my younger days loved to install stereos, equalizers, amplifiers and
> > speakers. I could use some feedback on the level of difficulty
associated
> > with installing the kit. Is it just going to be a time consuming
meticulous
> > process to follow each wire from the fuse block, etc.
> >
> > Also, I believe the Ignition Control Module is mounted under the dash
and
> > the wires come through the firewall. Is the bundle of wires also
included
> > in the kit?
> >
> > Lastly, due to an oil leak and some nasty looking spark plugs ( oil
fouled)
> > I was considering having the engine rebuilt or even upgrading to a 304.
> > Question is which situation is best: 1.) do I install painless wires
then
> > pull motor, 2.) pull motor, put back in then install wires, or 3.) pull
> > motor, install wires with motor out, then put motor back in?
> >
> > Any and all feedback is needed and appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dilla
> >
> >
> >

dilla1986

thank you for the detailed response. it is comforting to see a littel
"negative" feedback along with the positive.

Now a question for all. If i want to change out the ignition wiring, i
trust that kit is also available from the typical Jeep OEM suppliers,
Quadratec, J.C. Whitney and 4Wheel parts, etc.

thanks to all for the replies.


"Lee Ayrton" <layrton@panix.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.NEB.4.58.0405070923250.15636@panix3.pani x.com...
>
> I put the factory-preterminated "12 circuit" Painless kit in my `79 CJ-5
> restoration. The kit is very complete and from the firewall back it
> really is quite painless. The under-dash part is clear and easy to
> understand -- but it really pays to pull the dash off and work like a
> gentleman instead of trying to save the effort of pulling the dash.
>
> All of the harness ends, lamp sockets and single wires are labeled with
> 1x1 tags, so you know where everything goes. For the most part, ends are
> terminated in OEM-identical plug connectors, except the volt and oil gauge
> connectors which are ring terminals rather than push-on connectors.
>
> The thru-firewall bulkhead connector fits the OEM hole, but will not mate
> to the OEM connector so you cannot replace only half the harness, you must
> replace the whole system. It also lacks a gasket. I moulded butyl rubber
> (the black tacky stuff used by window installers) around it to caulk it.
>
> Under the hood, it is less painless and grows more painful from left to
> right. The harness is made to fit a very wide range of years (1975 -`86)
> and engines in a perfect example of "one size fits nobody". The lighting
> portion of the harness is easy enough, it follows the standard path along
> the left fender and into the grill. Curiously, it assumes that you'll
> have a fiberglass nose and runs the headlight ground back to the firewall
> (Jeep ran separate headlight grounds to screws on the back of the grill
> on each side) but makes no provision for signal light grounding (on steel
> bodies they ground through their mounting screws). I was not entirely
> comfortable with the wire gauge used for the headlights and felt that it
> could have been heavier.
>
> Because the harness is a universal fit, it is left up to you to route the
> wires to various engine and under-hood accessories. In some cases you'll
> want to break open the loom (split plastic tubing over a harness made up
> with zip-ties and black tape) and insert those wires to keep it neat. I
> did this for my oil and temp senders, for example, which needed to go to
> the right side of the engine. Painless includes extra zip-ties for this
> purpose.
>
> The instructions for the charging system are, quite frankly, a mess. If
> you follow the written instruction as first given you'll end up installing
> a system fuse in a place where it is jumpered by a parallel cable. It is
> only when you read the erratum pages at the /back/ of the manual that you
> find that you should have done it differently, and even there it is a mess
> -- to make it worse, some heavy wires have different numbers on each end.
> The instructions call for splices and doubled-up wiring where it makes no
> sense. My advice here is to break open the Painless harness, study the
> existing alternator harness and if salvageable blend it in to the Painless
> harness, being sure to place the system fuse between the alternator and
> the load.
>
> The Painless harness _does_not_include_ the ignition harness, so don't
> pull it off and throw it away. My `79 used the electronic breakerless
> system with a module bolted to the left fender (your system may vary).
> It does include the feed from the ignition switch to the coil (you must
> install the resistor -- find a place on the firewall where it will not get
> splashed with cold water), a tach feed, and the wire from the starter
> relay to the coil. The wires that should go from the ignition switch to
> the ignition module on my `79 needed to be pulled out of the loom because
> they ran to the right side instead of the left side where they were
> needed. The plastic loom was too small to accept the ignition sub-harness
> and I salvaged the larger OEM loom here to keep things neat and protected.
>
> Back to the ignition resistor: at least for the 1976-82 model span Jeep
> used a resistive wire blended into the harness, not a mounted GM-style
> ceramic resistor. The wire can be found by looking for a piece about 2'
> long spliced into the harness along the firewall, is is stiffer than the
> usual wire and the insulation feels softer and loose on the wire. Don't
> be fooled into thinking that you don't need the resistor just because you
> can't find the ceramic one on your firewall.
>
> On the whole, I found it to be a good product with imperfect documentation
> at a rather steep price (Painless makes harnesses for high-end hotrods
> which seems to be a market with very deep pockets). Engineering support
> was spotty, you can spend quite a lot of time in a hold queue wanting for
> tech support, and at least one tech got rather too defensive when I
> mentioned the lack of clear documentation on the charging system. I know
> that there are two other manufacturers (4WD.com seems to be one) and that
> some here have experience with them. You should comparison shop before
> you decide, but the Painless system is certainly a quality product.
>
>
> On Thu, 6 May 2004, dilla1986 wrote:
>
> > From the multiple cracked wires under my hood, it is time to replace the
> > wires for my '83 CJ-7, 258. I am no electrician but I can follow a map
and
> > in my younger days loved to install stereos, equalizers, amplifiers and
> > speakers. I could use some feedback on the level of difficulty
associated
> > with installing the kit. Is it just going to be a time consuming
meticulous
> > process to follow each wire from the fuse block, etc.
> >
> > Also, I believe the Ignition Control Module is mounted under the dash
and
> > the wires come through the firewall. Is the bundle of wires also
included
> > in the kit?
> >
> > Lastly, due to an oil leak and some nasty looking spark plugs ( oil
fouled)
> > I was considering having the engine rebuilt or even upgrading to a 304.
> > Question is which situation is best: 1.) do I install painless wires
then
> > pull motor, 2.) pull motor, put back in then install wires, or 3.) pull
> > motor, install wires with motor out, then put motor back in?
> >
> > Any and all feedback is needed and appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dilla
> >
> >
> >

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Why not go to them: http://www.painlessperformance.com/ More than
likely you probably be using their help number, as a friend did when he
rewired his '32 Ford, 55 Ford, and 62 Corvette, all with alternators,
and tilt columns: http://members.aol.com/franangrenteria/ Buy reams for
your fax machine.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

dilla1986 wrote:
>
> thank you for the detailed response. it is comforting to see a littel
> "negative" feedback along with the positive.
>
> Now a question for all. If i want to change out the ignition wiring, i
> trust that kit is also available from the typical Jeep OEM suppliers,
> Quadratec, J.C. Whitney and 4Wheel parts, etc.
>
> thanks to all for the replies.

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Why not go to them: http://www.painlessperformance.com/ More than
likely you probably be using their help number, as a friend did when he
rewired his '32 Ford, 55 Ford, and 62 Corvette, all with alternators,
and tilt columns: http://members.aol.com/franangrenteria/ Buy reams for
your fax machine.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

dilla1986 wrote:
>
> thank you for the detailed response. it is comforting to see a littel
> "negative" feedback along with the positive.
>
> Now a question for all. If i want to change out the ignition wiring, i
> trust that kit is also available from the typical Jeep OEM suppliers,
> Quadratec, J.C. Whitney and 4Wheel parts, etc.
>
> thanks to all for the replies.

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Why not go to them: http://www.painlessperformance.com/ More than
likely you probably be using their help number, as a friend did when he
rewired his '32 Ford, 55 Ford, and 62 Corvette, all with alternators,
and tilt columns: http://members.aol.com/franangrenteria/ Buy reams for
your fax machine.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

dilla1986 wrote:
>
> thank you for the detailed response. it is comforting to see a littel
> "negative" feedback along with the positive.
>
> Now a question for all. If i want to change out the ignition wiring, i
> trust that kit is also available from the typical Jeep OEM suppliers,
> Quadratec, J.C. Whitney and 4Wheel parts, etc.
>
> thanks to all for the replies.

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Why not go to them: http://www.painlessperformance.com/ More than
likely you probably be using their help number, as a friend did when he
rewired his '32 Ford, 55 Ford, and 62 Corvette, all with alternators,
and tilt columns: http://members.aol.com/franangrenteria/ Buy reams for
your fax machine.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

dilla1986 wrote:
>
> thank you for the detailed response. it is comforting to see a littel
> "negative" feedback along with the positive.
>
> Now a question for all. If i want to change out the ignition wiring, i
> trust that kit is also available from the typical Jeep OEM suppliers,
> Quadratec, J.C. Whitney and 4Wheel parts, etc.
>
> thanks to all for the replies.