Gerald G. McGeorge

Indeed, with a TJ it's critical you get the thing aligned. Most leaf spring
lifts won't affect alignment at all (unless there's a longer shackle
involved), however the TJs a different matter due to the variables involved
in the control arm settings. Depending on the lift It's likely to be off
significantly or not at all.

Aligning the steering wheel is simple, just loosen the clamps on the drag
link (pitman to tie rod) sleeve, turn the drag link until the wheel returns
to a dead ahead position and tighten back down. FWIW, if the sleeve is
frozen on the drag link spray it down well with WD40, then heat it gently
with a torch to break the bond.



"Sean Prinz" <s_prinz@msn.com> wrote in message
news:bieh6p$8abfl$1@ID-137890.news.uni-berlin.de...
> The right answer is to take any vehicle in for a professional alignment
> following a suspension lift. Let them adjust everything. If something is
> out of spec and will lead to tire damage it is cheaper to fix now than
> waiting for the tires to fail. just eye-balling the toe in is not the
best
> answer.
>
> Sean
> 99TJ
> 2KXJ
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F4A46C0.5409C9FB@sympatico.ca...
> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > >
> > > "Jeff Scramlin" <jscramlin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:iT62b.7388$jY2.4311@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> > > > I just installed a Tera 3T lift, RE adjustable front track bar and
JKS
> > > > disconnects on my '01 TJ. (What a weekend of fun!) I did not
> install
> > > the
> > > > dropped pitman arm as I've heard it's not needed for lifts under 4".
> I'm
> > > > getting ready to do check toe-in, but noticed my steering wheel is
> almost
> > > > upside down. How can I fix this?
> > > >
> > > > Jeff
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Your steering wheel should not have moved that far. I would be looking
> at
> > > the parts you changed to make sure they are installed right.
> >
> > It will go back about a quarter turn as soon as it gets a good off road
> > bouncing to loosen it up is my bet.
> >
> > Steve Seppala adjusted his steering wheel straight after a 4" lift and
> > on the first good off road bounce run his wheel clocked off close to 30
> > deg. He was sure something had let loose, but nope, it just settled in.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
>

Mike Romain

Eyeballing?

Forget that man.

Use a tape measure and set it exact!

I run BFG 33x9.5 muds and did my own alignment after all new front end
parts and a lift.

My tires are wearing perfectly still 3 years later.

It is easy, find the mold seam in the tires and use that as the
measuring spot, then measure across as high as you can go in the back
and the same height in the front, then adjust until you have about 1/16
less across the front to the back. (on my CJ7 anyway)

Mike


Sean Prinz wrote:
>
> The right answer is to take any vehicle in for a professional alignment
> following a suspension lift. Let them adjust everything. If something is
> out of spec and will lead to tire damage it is cheaper to fix now than
> waiting for the tires to fail. just eye-balling the toe in is not the best
> answer.
>
> Sean
> 99TJ
> 2KXJ
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F4A46C0.5409C9FB@sympatico.ca...
> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > >
> > > "Jeff Scramlin" <jscramlin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:iT62b.7388$jY2.4311@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> > > > I just installed a Tera 3T lift, RE adjustable front track bar and JKS
> > > > disconnects on my '01 TJ. (What a weekend of fun!) I did not
> install
> > > the
> > > > dropped pitman arm as I've heard it's not needed for lifts under 4".
> I'm
> > > > getting ready to do check toe-in, but noticed my steering wheel is
> almost
> > > > upside down. How can I fix this?
> > > >
> > > > Jeff
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Your steering wheel should not have moved that far. I would be looking
> at
> > > the parts you changed to make sure they are installed right.
> >
> > It will go back about a quarter turn as soon as it gets a good off road
> > bouncing to loosen it up is my bet.
> >
> > Steve Seppala adjusted his steering wheel straight after a 4" lift and
> > on the first good off road bounce run his wheel clocked off close to 30
> > deg. He was sure something had let loose, but nope, it just settled in.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Mike Romain

Eyeballing?

Forget that man.

Use a tape measure and set it exact!

I run BFG 33x9.5 muds and did my own alignment after all new front end
parts and a lift.

My tires are wearing perfectly still 3 years later.

It is easy, find the mold seam in the tires and use that as the
measuring spot, then measure across as high as you can go in the back
and the same height in the front, then adjust until you have about 1/16
less across the front to the back. (on my CJ7 anyway)

Mike


Sean Prinz wrote:
>
> The right answer is to take any vehicle in for a professional alignment
> following a suspension lift. Let them adjust everything. If something is
> out of spec and will lead to tire damage it is cheaper to fix now than
> waiting for the tires to fail. just eye-balling the toe in is not the best
> answer.
>
> Sean
> 99TJ
> 2KXJ
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F4A46C0.5409C9FB@sympatico.ca...
> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > >
> > > "Jeff Scramlin" <jscramlin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:iT62b.7388$jY2.4311@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> > > > I just installed a Tera 3T lift, RE adjustable front track bar and JKS
> > > > disconnects on my '01 TJ. (What a weekend of fun!) I did not
> install
> > > the
> > > > dropped pitman arm as I've heard it's not needed for lifts under 4".
> I'm
> > > > getting ready to do check toe-in, but noticed my steering wheel is
> almost
> > > > upside down. How can I fix this?
> > > >
> > > > Jeff
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Your steering wheel should not have moved that far. I would be looking
> at
> > > the parts you changed to make sure they are installed right.
> >
> > It will go back about a quarter turn as soon as it gets a good off road
> > bouncing to loosen it up is my bet.
> >
> > Steve Seppala adjusted his steering wheel straight after a 4" lift and
> > on the first good off road bounce run his wheel clocked off close to 30
> > deg. He was sure something had let loose, but nope, it just settled in.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Jeff Strickland

You can't measure from the sides of the tires because they can be different
by an amount greater than the measurement tolerance. If one wishes to do a
driveway alignment, the mold seams in the tires must be the measurement
point because this point is in the same position all of the way around the
tire.

You can do a driveway alignment by measuring from the sides of the tread,
but (like you said, George) the same locations must be used for each check
and recheck, but if the mold mark in the center of the tire is used, you
don't have to measure from the exact same place on each check and recheck
because the mold seams will always be straight. The tolerance for a correct
toe-in adjustment is less than 1/8th inch variance at the front measuring
point and the rear measuring point, a molding error in the tread blocks
could be this amount and still get through the inspection process.




"Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
news:vkmrats6qrl03a@corp.supernews.com...
> On leaf spring lifts this actually works fine. Just have to be precise as
to
> where you're measuring from on the sides of the tires. I did this on my YJ
> after installing the Dynatrac 44 and the RE 4.5" lift. Later we put it on
an
> alignment rack to determine how much shim we needed to compensate for the
> longer shackles RE uses with their 4.5" kit. Toe turned out to be dead on
> the money (needed 2 degree shims to dial in the caster.)
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F4B66A8.B373BFF8@sympatico.ca...
> > Eyeballing?
> >
> > Forget that man.
> >
> > Use a tape measure and set it exact!
> >
> > I run BFG 33x9.5 muds and did my own alignment after all new front end
> > parts and a lift.
> >
> > My tires are wearing perfectly still 3 years later.
> >
> > It is easy, find the mold seam in the tires and use that as the
> > measuring spot, then measure across as high as you can go in the back
> > and the same height in the front, then adjust until you have about 1/16
> > less across the front to the back. (on my CJ7 anyway)
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > Sean Prinz wrote:
> > >
> > > The right answer is to take any vehicle in for a professional
alignment
> > > following a suspension lift. Let them adjust everything. If
something
> is
> > > out of spec and will lead to tire damage it is cheaper to fix now than
> > > waiting for the tires to fail. just eye-balling the toe in is not the
> best
> > > answer.
> > >
> > > Sean
> > > 99TJ
> > > 2KXJ
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:3F4A46C0.5409C9FB@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Jeff Scramlin" <jscramlin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:iT62b.7388$jY2.4311@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> > > > > > I just installed a Tera 3T lift, RE adjustable front track bar
and
> JKS
> > > > > > disconnects on my '01 TJ. (What a weekend of fun!) I did not
> > > install
> > > > > the
> > > > > > dropped pitman arm as I've heard it's not needed for lifts under
> 4".
> > > I'm
> > > > > > getting ready to do check toe-in, but noticed my steering wheel
is
> > > almost
> > > > > > upside down. How can I fix this?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jeff
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your steering wheel should not have moved that far. I would be
> looking
> > > at
> > > > > the parts you changed to make sure they are installed right.
> > > >
> > > > It will go back about a quarter turn as soon as it gets a good off
> road
> > > > bouncing to loosen it up is my bet.
> > > >
> > > > Steve Seppala adjusted his steering wheel straight after a 4" lift
and
> > > > on the first good off road bounce run his wheel clocked off close to
> 30
> > > > deg. He was sure something had let loose, but nope, it just settled
> in.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
>

Jeff Strickland

You can't measure from the sides of the tires because they can be different
by an amount greater than the measurement tolerance. If one wishes to do a
driveway alignment, the mold seams in the tires must be the measurement
point because this point is in the same position all of the way around the
tire.

You can do a driveway alignment by measuring from the sides of the tread,
but (like you said, George) the same locations must be used for each check
and recheck, but if the mold mark in the center of the tire is used, you
don't have to measure from the exact same place on each check and recheck
because the mold seams will always be straight. The tolerance for a correct
toe-in adjustment is less than 1/8th inch variance at the front measuring
point and the rear measuring point, a molding error in the tread blocks
could be this amount and still get through the inspection process.




"Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
news:vkmrats6qrl03a@corp.supernews.com...
> On leaf spring lifts this actually works fine. Just have to be precise as
to
> where you're measuring from on the sides of the tires. I did this on my YJ
> after installing the Dynatrac 44 and the RE 4.5" lift. Later we put it on
an
> alignment rack to determine how much shim we needed to compensate for the
> longer shackles RE uses with their 4.5" kit. Toe turned out to be dead on
> the money (needed 2 degree shims to dial in the caster.)
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F4B66A8.B373BFF8@sympatico.ca...
> > Eyeballing?
> >
> > Forget that man.
> >
> > Use a tape measure and set it exact!
> >
> > I run BFG 33x9.5 muds and did my own alignment after all new front end
> > parts and a lift.
> >
> > My tires are wearing perfectly still 3 years later.
> >
> > It is easy, find the mold seam in the tires and use that as the
> > measuring spot, then measure across as high as you can go in the back
> > and the same height in the front, then adjust until you have about 1/16
> > less across the front to the back. (on my CJ7 anyway)
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > Sean Prinz wrote:
> > >
> > > The right answer is to take any vehicle in for a professional
alignment
> > > following a suspension lift. Let them adjust everything. If
something
> is
> > > out of spec and will lead to tire damage it is cheaper to fix now than
> > > waiting for the tires to fail. just eye-balling the toe in is not the
> best
> > > answer.
> > >
> > > Sean
> > > 99TJ
> > > 2KXJ
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:3F4A46C0.5409C9FB@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Jeff Scramlin" <jscramlin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:iT62b.7388$jY2.4311@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> > > > > > I just installed a Tera 3T lift, RE adjustable front track bar
and
> JKS
> > > > > > disconnects on my '01 TJ. (What a weekend of fun!) I did not
> > > install
> > > > > the
> > > > > > dropped pitman arm as I've heard it's not needed for lifts under
> 4".
> > > I'm
> > > > > > getting ready to do check toe-in, but noticed my steering wheel
is
> > > almost
> > > > > > upside down. How can I fix this?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jeff
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your steering wheel should not have moved that far. I would be
> looking
> > > at
> > > > > the parts you changed to make sure they are installed right.
> > > >
> > > > It will go back about a quarter turn as soon as it gets a good off
> road
> > > > bouncing to loosen it up is my bet.
> > > >
> > > > Steve Seppala adjusted his steering wheel straight after a 4" lift
and
> > > > on the first good off road bounce run his wheel clocked off close to
> 30
> > > > deg. He was sure something had let loose, but nope, it just settled
> in.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
>

Gerald G. McGeorge

I suppose you're right, but if we want to be completely accurate we measure
toe with a tape measure, should we? ;-)

I generally measure from the floor to the center of the hub, take that
reading and make marks on both the front & rear insides of the sidewalls,
then measure side to side on each. Frankly if it's within 1/8" either way,
for this kind of shade tree technique, it's fine.

I'd still say for his TJ he really needs to get it set up on a proper,
calibrated alignment rack & set all 4 wheels properly. He didn't mention his
rear axle, but with the complexities of the TJs track arms, etc. this is
just a good, prudent step to take. Can also dial out / in any driveline
vibration while they're at it.

"Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vkn7tesi3hhd33@corp.supernews.com...
> You can't measure from the sides of the tires because they can be
different
> by an amount greater than the measurement tolerance. If one wishes to do a
> driveway alignment, the mold seams in the tires must be the measurement
> point because this point is in the same position all of the way around the
> tire.
>
> You can do a driveway alignment by measuring from the sides of the tread,
> but (like you said, George) the same locations must be used for each check
> and recheck, but if the mold mark in the center of the tire is used, you
> don't have to measure from the exact same place on each check and recheck
> because the mold seams will always be straight. The tolerance for a
correct
> toe-in adjustment is less than 1/8th inch variance at the front measuring
> point and the rear measuring point, a molding error in the tread blocks
> could be this amount and still get through the inspection process.
>
>
>
>
> "Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
> news:vkmrats6qrl03a@corp.supernews.com...
> > On leaf spring lifts this actually works fine. Just have to be precise
as
> to
> > where you're measuring from on the sides of the tires. I did this on my
YJ
> > after installing the Dynatrac 44 and the RE 4.5" lift. Later we put it
on
> an
> > alignment rack to determine how much shim we needed to compensate for
the
> > longer shackles RE uses with their 4.5" kit. Toe turned out to be dead
on
> > the money (needed 2 degree shims to dial in the caster.)
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:3F4B66A8.B373BFF8@sympatico.ca...
> > > Eyeballing?
> > >
> > > Forget that man.
> > >
> > > Use a tape measure and set it exact!
> > >
> > > I run BFG 33x9.5 muds and did my own alignment after all new front end
> > > parts and a lift.
> > >
> > > My tires are wearing perfectly still 3 years later.
> > >
> > > It is easy, find the mold seam in the tires and use that as the
> > > measuring spot, then measure across as high as you can go in the back
> > > and the same height in the front, then adjust until you have about
1/16
> > > less across the front to the back. (on my CJ7 anyway)
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > Sean Prinz wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The right answer is to take any vehicle in for a professional
> alignment
> > > > following a suspension lift. Let them adjust everything. If
> something
> > is
> > > > out of spec and will lead to tire damage it is cheaper to fix now
than
> > > > waiting for the tires to fail. just eye-balling the toe in is not
the
> > best
> > > > answer.
> > > >
> > > > Sean
> > > > 99TJ
> > > > 2KXJ
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:3F4A46C0.5409C9FB@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Jeff Scramlin" <jscramlin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:iT62b.7388$jY2.4311@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> > > > > > > I just installed a Tera 3T lift, RE adjustable front track bar
> and
> > JKS
> > > > > > > disconnects on my '01 TJ. (What a weekend of fun!) I did
not
> > > > install
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > dropped pitman arm as I've heard it's not needed for lifts
under
> > 4".
> > > > I'm
> > > > > > > getting ready to do check toe-in, but noticed my steering
wheel
> is
> > > > almost
> > > > > > > upside down. How can I fix this?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jeff
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your steering wheel should not have moved that far. I would be
> > looking
> > > > at
> > > > > > the parts you changed to make sure they are installed right.
> > > > >
> > > > > It will go back about a quarter turn as soon as it gets a good off
> > road
> > > > > bouncing to loosen it up is my bet.
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve Seppala adjusted his steering wheel straight after a 4" lift
> and
> > > > > on the first good off road bounce run his wheel clocked off close
to
> > 30
> > > > > deg. He was sure something had let loose, but nope, it just
settled
> > in.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> >
>
>

Gerald G. McGeorge

I suppose you're right, but if we want to be completely accurate we measure
toe with a tape measure, should we? ;-)

I generally measure from the floor to the center of the hub, take that
reading and make marks on both the front & rear insides of the sidewalls,
then measure side to side on each. Frankly if it's within 1/8" either way,
for this kind of shade tree technique, it's fine.

I'd still say for his TJ he really needs to get it set up on a proper,
calibrated alignment rack & set all 4 wheels properly. He didn't mention his
rear axle, but with the complexities of the TJs track arms, etc. this is
just a good, prudent step to take. Can also dial out / in any driveline
vibration while they're at it.

"Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vkn7tesi3hhd33@corp.supernews.com...
> You can't measure from the sides of the tires because they can be
different
> by an amount greater than the measurement tolerance. If one wishes to do a
> driveway alignment, the mold seams in the tires must be the measurement
> point because this point is in the same position all of the way around the
> tire.
>
> You can do a driveway alignment by measuring from the sides of the tread,
> but (like you said, George) the same locations must be used for each check
> and recheck, but if the mold mark in the center of the tire is used, you
> don't have to measure from the exact same place on each check and recheck
> because the mold seams will always be straight. The tolerance for a
correct
> toe-in adjustment is less than 1/8th inch variance at the front measuring
> point and the rear measuring point, a molding error in the tread blocks
> could be this amount and still get through the inspection process.
>
>
>
>
> "Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
> news:vkmrats6qrl03a@corp.supernews.com...
> > On leaf spring lifts this actually works fine. Just have to be precise
as
> to
> > where you're measuring from on the sides of the tires. I did this on my
YJ
> > after installing the Dynatrac 44 and the RE 4.5" lift. Later we put it
on
> an
> > alignment rack to determine how much shim we needed to compensate for
the
> > longer shackles RE uses with their 4.5" kit. Toe turned out to be dead
on
> > the money (needed 2 degree shims to dial in the caster.)
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:3F4B66A8.B373BFF8@sympatico.ca...
> > > Eyeballing?
> > >
> > > Forget that man.
> > >
> > > Use a tape measure and set it exact!
> > >
> > > I run BFG 33x9.5 muds and did my own alignment after all new front end
> > > parts and a lift.
> > >
> > > My tires are wearing perfectly still 3 years later.
> > >
> > > It is easy, find the mold seam in the tires and use that as the
> > > measuring spot, then measure across as high as you can go in the back
> > > and the same height in the front, then adjust until you have about
1/16
> > > less across the front to the back. (on my CJ7 anyway)
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > Sean Prinz wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The right answer is to take any vehicle in for a professional
> alignment
> > > > following a suspension lift. Let them adjust everything. If
> something
> > is
> > > > out of spec and will lead to tire damage it is cheaper to fix now
than
> > > > waiting for the tires to fail. just eye-balling the toe in is not
the
> > best
> > > > answer.
> > > >
> > > > Sean
> > > > 99TJ
> > > > 2KXJ
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:3F4A46C0.5409C9FB@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Jeff Scramlin" <jscramlin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:iT62b.7388$jY2.4311@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> > > > > > > I just installed a Tera 3T lift, RE adjustable front track bar
> and
> > JKS
> > > > > > > disconnects on my '01 TJ. (What a weekend of fun!) I did
not
> > > > install
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > dropped pitman arm as I've heard it's not needed for lifts
under
> > 4".
> > > > I'm
> > > > > > > getting ready to do check toe-in, but noticed my steering
wheel
> is
> > > > almost
> > > > > > > upside down. How can I fix this?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jeff
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your steering wheel should not have moved that far. I would be
> > looking
> > > > at
> > > > > > the parts you changed to make sure they are installed right.
> > > > >
> > > > > It will go back about a quarter turn as soon as it gets a good off
> > road
> > > > > bouncing to loosen it up is my bet.
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve Seppala adjusted his steering wheel straight after a 4" lift
> and
> > > > > on the first good off road bounce run his wheel clocked off close
to
> > 30
> > > > > deg. He was sure something had let loose, but nope, it just
settled
> > in.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> >
>
>

Jeff Strickland

"Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
news:vkn8hjjhadehfa@corp.supernews.com...
> I suppose you're right, but if we want to be completely accurate we
measure
> toe with a tape measure, should we? ;-)
>
Well no, but if we are going to do things with a stone axe and hammer,
shouldn't we at least try to be accurate with our swing?



> I generally measure from the floor to the center of the hub, take that
> reading and make marks on both the front & rear insides of the sidewalls,
> then measure side to side on each. Frankly if it's within 1/8" either way,
> for this kind of shade tree technique, it's fine.
>
I get it. I simply measure from the 3:00 and 9:00 positions, or as close as
I can physically get taking the frame and other obsticles into
consideration.



> I'd still say for his TJ he really needs to get it set up on a proper,
> calibrated alignment rack & set all 4 wheels properly. He didn't mention
his
> rear axle, but with the complexities of the TJs track arms, etc. this is
> just a good, prudent step to take. Can also dial out / in any driveline
> vibration while they're at it.
>

Yes, for his TJ, he needs to consider other things as well. I think that
given his original question, he has something wrong if the steering wheel is
off by nearly 180°. (He did say the wheel was nearly upside down.) If he had
said that the steering wheel was off by the amount needed to make a lane
change, then we could tell him the shadetree methods and be pretty sure he
would be OK when he was done.

Jeff Strickland

"Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
news:vkn8hjjhadehfa@corp.supernews.com...
> I suppose you're right, but if we want to be completely accurate we
measure
> toe with a tape measure, should we? ;-)
>
Well no, but if we are going to do things with a stone axe and hammer,
shouldn't we at least try to be accurate with our swing?



> I generally measure from the floor to the center of the hub, take that
> reading and make marks on both the front & rear insides of the sidewalls,
> then measure side to side on each. Frankly if it's within 1/8" either way,
> for this kind of shade tree technique, it's fine.
>
I get it. I simply measure from the 3:00 and 9:00 positions, or as close as
I can physically get taking the frame and other obsticles into
consideration.



> I'd still say for his TJ he really needs to get it set up on a proper,
> calibrated alignment rack & set all 4 wheels properly. He didn't mention
his
> rear axle, but with the complexities of the TJs track arms, etc. this is
> just a good, prudent step to take. Can also dial out / in any driveline
> vibration while they're at it.
>

Yes, for his TJ, he needs to consider other things as well. I think that
given his original question, he has something wrong if the steering wheel is
off by nearly 180°. (He did say the wheel was nearly upside down.) If he had
said that the steering wheel was off by the amount needed to make a lane
change, then we could tell him the shadetree methods and be pretty sure he
would be OK when he was done.

TJim

http://www.cowtownjeeps.com/tech/align.htm

"Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
news:vkn8hjjhadehfa@corp.supernews.com...
> I suppose you're right, but if we want to be completely accurate we
measure
> toe with a tape measure, should we? ;-)
>
> I generally measure from the floor to the center of the hub, take that
> reading and make marks on both the front & rear insides of the sidewalls,
> then measure side to side on each. Frankly if it's within 1/8" either way,
> for this kind of shade tree technique, it's fine.
>
> I'd still say for his TJ he really needs to get it set up on a proper,
> calibrated alignment rack & set all 4 wheels properly. He didn't mention
his
> rear axle, but with the complexities of the TJs track arms, etc. this is
> just a good, prudent step to take. Can also dial out / in any driveline
> vibration while they're at it.
>
> "Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:vkn7tesi3hhd33@corp.supernews.com...
> > You can't measure from the sides of the tires because they can be
> different
> > by an amount greater than the measurement tolerance. If one wishes to do
a
> > driveway alignment, the mold seams in the tires must be the measurement
> > point because this point is in the same position all of the way around
the
> > tire.
> >
> > You can do a driveway alignment by measuring from the sides of the
tread,
> > but (like you said, George) the same locations must be used for each
check
> > and recheck, but if the mold mark in the center of the tire is used, you
> > don't have to measure from the exact same place on each check and
recheck
> > because the mold seams will always be straight. The tolerance for a
> correct
> > toe-in adjustment is less than 1/8th inch variance at the front
measuring
> > point and the rear measuring point, a molding error in the tread blocks
> > could be this amount and still get through the inspection process.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
> > news:vkmrats6qrl03a@corp.supernews.com...
> > > On leaf spring lifts this actually works fine. Just have to be precise
> as
> > to
> > > where you're measuring from on the sides of the tires. I did this on
my
> YJ
> > > after installing the Dynatrac 44 and the RE 4.5" lift. Later we put it
> on
> > an
> > > alignment rack to determine how much shim we needed to compensate for
> the
> > > longer shackles RE uses with their 4.5" kit. Toe turned out to be dead
> on
> > > the money (needed 2 degree shims to dial in the caster.)
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:3F4B66A8.B373BFF8@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Eyeballing?
> > > >
> > > > Forget that man.
> > > >
> > > > Use a tape measure and set it exact!
> > > >
> > > > I run BFG 33x9.5 muds and did my own alignment after all new front
end
> > > > parts and a lift.
> > > >
> > > > My tires are wearing perfectly still 3 years later.
> > > >
> > > > It is easy, find the mold seam in the tires and use that as the
> > > > measuring spot, then measure across as high as you can go in the
back
> > > > and the same height in the front, then adjust until you have about
> 1/16
> > > > less across the front to the back. (on my CJ7 anyway)
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sean Prinz wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The right answer is to take any vehicle in for a professional
> > alignment
> > > > > following a suspension lift. Let them adjust everything. If
> > something
> > > is
> > > > > out of spec and will lead to tire damage it is cheaper to fix now
> than
> > > > > waiting for the tires to fail. just eye-balling the toe in is not
> the
> > > best
> > > > > answer.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sean
> > > > > 99TJ
> > > > > 2KXJ
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:3F4A46C0.5409C9FB@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Jeff Scramlin" <jscramlin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:iT62b.7388$jY2.4311@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> > > > > > > > I just installed a Tera 3T lift, RE adjustable front track
bar
> > and
> > > JKS
> > > > > > > > disconnects on my '01 TJ. (What a weekend of fun!) I did
> not
> > > > > install
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > dropped pitman arm as I've heard it's not needed for lifts
> under
> > > 4".
> > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > getting ready to do check toe-in, but noticed my steering
> wheel
> > is
> > > > > almost
> > > > > > > > upside down. How can I fix this?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jeff
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your steering wheel should not have moved that far. I would be
> > > looking
> > > > > at
> > > > > > > the parts you changed to make sure they are installed right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It will go back about a quarter turn as soon as it gets a good
off
> > > road
> > > > > > bouncing to loosen it up is my bet.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Steve Seppala adjusted his steering wheel straight after a 4"
lift
> > and
> > > > > > on the first good off road bounce run his wheel clocked off
close
> to
> > > 30
> > > > > > deg. He was sure something had let loose, but nope, it just
> settled
> > > in.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>