Jeff Strickland

"Will Honea" <whonea@codenet.net> wrote in message
news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-NHdNIYSfw7TB@anon.none.net...
> Not that it solves the problem, but that sounds like it's happening
> about the time the O2 sensor should be reaching a temp where the
> system goes closed loop. AIR, the MOPAR unit uses a heater on the
> sensor controlled by a relay and it determines the cold start
> switchover based on the output of the sensor OR a fixed time,
> whichever comes first. What you describe would be consistent with
> timing out before the O2 sensor reaches operating temp on the first
> pass, then actually reaching the proper temp and giving an output
> before it times out on the second pass. Other than a voltage drop in
> the wiring that keeps the heater from reaching the right temp, the
> only other answer would be a different sensor - a little expensive to
> try "just to see if it works" and it should set a code.
>
> That's just some musings after watching my son struggle with his '91
> XJ when he forgot to plug the relay back in when he was cleaning
> connectors a while back.
>


I think I'll spend the money on more important stuff, and occasionally start
my CJ twice. Thanks for the explanation though. Do you suppose my header
could be playing a part in this? The O2 sensor should be installed in a
collector where all of the tubes come together, but my senior-moment-plagued
mind's eye says the sensor is in a collector that only looks at one set of
tubes. My header is a 3 into 2 into 1 design, and logic says the sensor
should be in the 2 into 1 collector, but I think it is in one of the 3 into
2 collectors. I don't really care if the sensor looks at all of the exhaust
gas or not, but I wonder if the header could actually be cooler than the
standard manifold, and keeping the O2 sensor from getting hot in time. You
did mention the manifold heater, but that is contained in the carburator
manifold, not the fuel injection manifold. Hmmm ...

Richard Harris

Jeff,
I think I'll do the same. Everything is fine after the initial stall and the
annoyance isn't all that bad. On the other hand I'm just a poor sailor and
to me we spent a pile of bank on this system, it should run right. Jeff,
about the header thing, I'm running a stock exhaust manifold and my symptoms
are there, so I think it could be something other than the header.
Rich

"Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vkkrb0eo3b6ba4@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Will Honea" <whonea@codenet.net> wrote in message
> news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-NHdNIYSfw7TB@anon.none.net...
> > Not that it solves the problem, but that sounds like it's happening
> > about the time the O2 sensor should be reaching a temp where the
> > system goes closed loop. AIR, the MOPAR unit uses a heater on the
> > sensor controlled by a relay and it determines the cold start
> > switchover based on the output of the sensor OR a fixed time,
> > whichever comes first. What you describe would be consistent with
> > timing out before the O2 sensor reaches operating temp on the first
> > pass, then actually reaching the proper temp and giving an output
> > before it times out on the second pass. Other than a voltage drop in
> > the wiring that keeps the heater from reaching the right temp, the
> > only other answer would be a different sensor - a little expensive to
> > try "just to see if it works" and it should set a code.
> >
> > That's just some musings after watching my son struggle with his '91
> > XJ when he forgot to plug the relay back in when he was cleaning
> > connectors a while back.
> >
>
>
> I think I'll spend the money on more important stuff, and occasionally
start
> my CJ twice. Thanks for the explanation though. Do you suppose my header
> could be playing a part in this? The O2 sensor should be installed in a
> collector where all of the tubes come together, but my
senior-moment-plagued
> mind's eye says the sensor is in a collector that only looks at one set of
> tubes. My header is a 3 into 2 into 1 design, and logic says the sensor
> should be in the 2 into 1 collector, but I think it is in one of the 3
into
> 2 collectors. I don't really care if the sensor looks at all of the
exhaust
> gas or not, but I wonder if the header could actually be cooler than the
> standard manifold, and keeping the O2 sensor from getting hot in time. You
> did mention the manifold heater, but that is contained in the carburator
> manifold, not the fuel injection manifold. Hmmm ...
>
>
>
>
>

Richard Harris

Jeff,
I think I'll do the same. Everything is fine after the initial stall and the
annoyance isn't all that bad. On the other hand I'm just a poor sailor and
to me we spent a pile of bank on this system, it should run right. Jeff,
about the header thing, I'm running a stock exhaust manifold and my symptoms
are there, so I think it could be something other than the header.
Rich

"Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vkkrb0eo3b6ba4@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Will Honea" <whonea@codenet.net> wrote in message
> news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-NHdNIYSfw7TB@anon.none.net...
> > Not that it solves the problem, but that sounds like it's happening
> > about the time the O2 sensor should be reaching a temp where the
> > system goes closed loop. AIR, the MOPAR unit uses a heater on the
> > sensor controlled by a relay and it determines the cold start
> > switchover based on the output of the sensor OR a fixed time,
> > whichever comes first. What you describe would be consistent with
> > timing out before the O2 sensor reaches operating temp on the first
> > pass, then actually reaching the proper temp and giving an output
> > before it times out on the second pass. Other than a voltage drop in
> > the wiring that keeps the heater from reaching the right temp, the
> > only other answer would be a different sensor - a little expensive to
> > try "just to see if it works" and it should set a code.
> >
> > That's just some musings after watching my son struggle with his '91
> > XJ when he forgot to plug the relay back in when he was cleaning
> > connectors a while back.
> >
>
>
> I think I'll spend the money on more important stuff, and occasionally
start
> my CJ twice. Thanks for the explanation though. Do you suppose my header
> could be playing a part in this? The O2 sensor should be installed in a
> collector where all of the tubes come together, but my
senior-moment-plagued
> mind's eye says the sensor is in a collector that only looks at one set of
> tubes. My header is a 3 into 2 into 1 design, and logic says the sensor
> should be in the 2 into 1 collector, but I think it is in one of the 3
into
> 2 collectors. I don't really care if the sensor looks at all of the
exhaust
> gas or not, but I wonder if the header could actually be cooler than the
> standard manifold, and keeping the O2 sensor from getting hot in time. You
> did mention the manifold heater, but that is contained in the carburator
> manifold, not the fuel injection manifold. Hmmm ...
>
>
>
>
>

Will Honea

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:09:24 UTC "Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
> "Will Honea" <whonea@codenet.net> wrote in message
> news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-NHdNIYSfw7TB@anon.none.net...
> > Not that it solves the problem, but that sounds like it's happening
> > about the time the O2 sensor should be reaching a temp where the
> > system goes closed loop. AIR, the MOPAR unit uses a heater on the
> > sensor controlled by a relay and it determines the cold start
> > switchover based on the output of the sensor OR a fixed time,
> > whichever comes first. What you describe would be consistent with
> > timing out before the O2 sensor reaches operating temp on the first
> > pass, then actually reaching the proper temp and giving an output
> > before it times out on the second pass. Other than a voltage drop in
> > the wiring that keeps the heater from reaching the right temp, the
> > only other answer would be a different sensor - a little expensive to
> > try "just to see if it works" and it should set a code.
> >
> > That's just some musings after watching my son struggle with his '91
> > XJ when he forgot to plug the relay back in when he was cleaning
> > connectors a while back.
> >
>
>
> I think I'll spend the money on more important stuff, and occasionally start
> my CJ twice. Thanks for the explanation though. Do you suppose my header
> could be playing a part in this? The O2 sensor should be installed in a
> collector where all of the tubes come together, but my senior-moment-plagued
> mind's eye says the sensor is in a collector that only looks at one set of
> tubes. My header is a 3 into 2 into 1 design, and logic says the sensor
> should be in the 2 into 1 collector, but I think it is in one of the 3 into
> 2 collectors. I don't really care if the sensor looks at all of the exhaust
> gas or not, but I wonder if the header could actually be cooler than the
> standard manifold, and keeping the O2 sensor from getting hot in time. You
> did mention the manifold heater, but that is contained in the carburator
> manifold, not the fuel injection manifold. Hmmm ...

I would probably put up with, too. That's about like my 88 MJ: start
cold, use the tranny to hold the speed down descending the hill by the
house and the damned thing will die 8 times out of10 when I stop a the
bottom of the hill on the first start of the day. It took months to
get all the problems with the idle straightened out when I first got
the thing so I just put up with that little quirk.

The heater I was taking about is on the O2 sensor, not the manifold.
The only preheat I know of with FI is the one on the air intake port
and you know what that does to you.

I'm trying to remember where the O2 sensor is on the stock HO engine.
On mine, it's just above the flange at the very end of the header
which makes sense to me. Wonder why they put it where it only sees
two cylinders worth of exhaust?

--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Will Honea

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:09:24 UTC "Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
> "Will Honea" <whonea@codenet.net> wrote in message
> news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-NHdNIYSfw7TB@anon.none.net...
> > Not that it solves the problem, but that sounds like it's happening
> > about the time the O2 sensor should be reaching a temp where the
> > system goes closed loop. AIR, the MOPAR unit uses a heater on the
> > sensor controlled by a relay and it determines the cold start
> > switchover based on the output of the sensor OR a fixed time,
> > whichever comes first. What you describe would be consistent with
> > timing out before the O2 sensor reaches operating temp on the first
> > pass, then actually reaching the proper temp and giving an output
> > before it times out on the second pass. Other than a voltage drop in
> > the wiring that keeps the heater from reaching the right temp, the
> > only other answer would be a different sensor - a little expensive to
> > try "just to see if it works" and it should set a code.
> >
> > That's just some musings after watching my son struggle with his '91
> > XJ when he forgot to plug the relay back in when he was cleaning
> > connectors a while back.
> >
>
>
> I think I'll spend the money on more important stuff, and occasionally start
> my CJ twice. Thanks for the explanation though. Do you suppose my header
> could be playing a part in this? The O2 sensor should be installed in a
> collector where all of the tubes come together, but my senior-moment-plagued
> mind's eye says the sensor is in a collector that only looks at one set of
> tubes. My header is a 3 into 2 into 1 design, and logic says the sensor
> should be in the 2 into 1 collector, but I think it is in one of the 3 into
> 2 collectors. I don't really care if the sensor looks at all of the exhaust
> gas or not, but I wonder if the header could actually be cooler than the
> standard manifold, and keeping the O2 sensor from getting hot in time. You
> did mention the manifold heater, but that is contained in the carburator
> manifold, not the fuel injection manifold. Hmmm ...

I would probably put up with, too. That's about like my 88 MJ: start
cold, use the tranny to hold the speed down descending the hill by the
house and the damned thing will die 8 times out of10 when I stop a the
bottom of the hill on the first start of the day. It took months to
get all the problems with the idle straightened out when I first got
the thing so I just put up with that little quirk.

The heater I was taking about is on the O2 sensor, not the manifold.
The only preheat I know of with FI is the one on the air intake port
and you know what that does to you.

I'm trying to remember where the O2 sensor is on the stock HO engine.
On mine, it's just above the flange at the very end of the header
which makes sense to me. Wonder why they put it where it only sees
two cylinders worth of exhaust?

--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>