Jeff Falkiner

Thanks for the help folks. We've got some work ahead of us.

Jeff

"DaveW" <spsffan@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:oi0ed.3801$EP4.1796@trnddc06...
> DougW wrote:
>
> > Jeff Falkiner did pass the time by typing:
> >
> >>A good buddy recently bought a 1990 Cherokee Limited with the 4.0 litre
> >>inline 6.
> >>Every time he tries to start it after it's sat for awhile it takes a
looong
> >>time to finally fire. Time is 8-10 seconds. With winter coming, he's
> >>concerned with keeping enough battery capacity available on cold
Canadian
> >>winter mornings.
> >>
> >>Any quick things we should check out over a couple of Canadian beers?
The
> >>truck has just over 50K miles and is otherwise in fantastic shape.
> >
> >
> > Fuel rail pressure. Fit a gauge to it and see if it stays about 32 psi
and
> > doesn't drop more than 4-5psi over a few hours. If it does you either
have
> > a leaking pressure regulator (front of the fuel rail), drainback valve
> > (on the fuel pump), or a leaking fuel injector. further diagnosis isn't
too
> > hard but you need a set of hoses built for the job.
> >
> > In the mean while you could try turning the key on, wait for the pump to
> > cycle, then off, then on again. That cycles the pump and gets fuel and
> > pressure back into the rail.
> >
> >
>
> When my fuel pump was dying (91 XJ, 4.0) last year, it took longer and
> longer to start until one day when it just didn't. In my case, the
> regulator and drainback valve were fine. We replaced the pump and filter
> and everything is now tickity-boo.
>
> Regards,
>
> DAve

Jeff Falkiner

Thanks for the help folks. We've got some work ahead of us.

Jeff

"DaveW" <spsffan@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:oi0ed.3801$EP4.1796@trnddc06...
> DougW wrote:
>
> > Jeff Falkiner did pass the time by typing:
> >
> >>A good buddy recently bought a 1990 Cherokee Limited with the 4.0 litre
> >>inline 6.
> >>Every time he tries to start it after it's sat for awhile it takes a
looong
> >>time to finally fire. Time is 8-10 seconds. With winter coming, he's
> >>concerned with keeping enough battery capacity available on cold
Canadian
> >>winter mornings.
> >>
> >>Any quick things we should check out over a couple of Canadian beers?
The
> >>truck has just over 50K miles and is otherwise in fantastic shape.
> >
> >
> > Fuel rail pressure. Fit a gauge to it and see if it stays about 32 psi
and
> > doesn't drop more than 4-5psi over a few hours. If it does you either
have
> > a leaking pressure regulator (front of the fuel rail), drainback valve
> > (on the fuel pump), or a leaking fuel injector. further diagnosis isn't
too
> > hard but you need a set of hoses built for the job.
> >
> > In the mean while you could try turning the key on, wait for the pump to
> > cycle, then off, then on again. That cycles the pump and gets fuel and
> > pressure back into the rail.
> >
> >
>
> When my fuel pump was dying (91 XJ, 4.0) last year, it took longer and
> longer to start until one day when it just didn't. In my case, the
> regulator and drainback valve were fine. We replaced the pump and filter
> and everything is now tickity-boo.
>
> Regards,
>
> DAve

Mike Romain

I would highly recommend you find another pre 91 Cherokee to compare
cold start times before messing around. It sure 'seems' like a long
start, but it could just be the normal 'long start'.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Jeff Falkiner wrote:
>
> Thanks for the help folks. We've got some work ahead of us.
>
> Jeff
>
> "DaveW" <spsffan@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:oi0ed.3801$EP4.1796@trnddc06...
> > DougW wrote:
> >
> > > Jeff Falkiner did pass the time by typing:
> > >
> > >>A good buddy recently bought a 1990 Cherokee Limited with the 4.0 litre
> > >>inline 6.
> > >>Every time he tries to start it after it's sat for awhile it takes a
> looong
> > >>time to finally fire. Time is 8-10 seconds. With winter coming, he's
> > >>concerned with keeping enough battery capacity available on cold
> Canadian
> > >>winter mornings.
> > >>
> > >>Any quick things we should check out over a couple of Canadian beers?
> The
> > >>truck has just over 50K miles and is otherwise in fantastic shape.
> > >
> > >
> > > Fuel rail pressure. Fit a gauge to it and see if it stays about 32 psi
> and
> > > doesn't drop more than 4-5psi over a few hours. If it does you either
> have
> > > a leaking pressure regulator (front of the fuel rail), drainback valve
> > > (on the fuel pump), or a leaking fuel injector. further diagnosis isn't
> too
> > > hard but you need a set of hoses built for the job.
> > >
> > > In the mean while you could try turning the key on, wait for the pump to
> > > cycle, then off, then on again. That cycles the pump and gets fuel and
> > > pressure back into the rail.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > When my fuel pump was dying (91 XJ, 4.0) last year, it took longer and
> > longer to start until one day when it just didn't. In my case, the
> > regulator and drainback valve were fine. We replaced the pump and filter
> > and everything is now tickity-boo.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > DAve

Mike Romain

I would highly recommend you find another pre 91 Cherokee to compare
cold start times before messing around. It sure 'seems' like a long
start, but it could just be the normal 'long start'.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Jeff Falkiner wrote:
>
> Thanks for the help folks. We've got some work ahead of us.
>
> Jeff
>
> "DaveW" <spsffan@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:oi0ed.3801$EP4.1796@trnddc06...
> > DougW wrote:
> >
> > > Jeff Falkiner did pass the time by typing:
> > >
> > >>A good buddy recently bought a 1990 Cherokee Limited with the 4.0 litre
> > >>inline 6.
> > >>Every time he tries to start it after it's sat for awhile it takes a
> looong
> > >>time to finally fire. Time is 8-10 seconds. With winter coming, he's
> > >>concerned with keeping enough battery capacity available on cold
> Canadian
> > >>winter mornings.
> > >>
> > >>Any quick things we should check out over a couple of Canadian beers?
> The
> > >>truck has just over 50K miles and is otherwise in fantastic shape.
> > >
> > >
> > > Fuel rail pressure. Fit a gauge to it and see if it stays about 32 psi
> and
> > > doesn't drop more than 4-5psi over a few hours. If it does you either
> have
> > > a leaking pressure regulator (front of the fuel rail), drainback valve
> > > (on the fuel pump), or a leaking fuel injector. further diagnosis isn't
> too
> > > hard but you need a set of hoses built for the job.
> > >
> > > In the mean while you could try turning the key on, wait for the pump to
> > > cycle, then off, then on again. That cycles the pump and gets fuel and
> > > pressure back into the rail.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > When my fuel pump was dying (91 XJ, 4.0) last year, it took longer and
> > longer to start until one day when it just didn't. In my case, the
> > regulator and drainback valve were fine. We replaced the pump and filter
> > and everything is now tickity-boo.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > DAve

Mike Romain

I would highly recommend you find another pre 91 Cherokee to compare
cold start times before messing around. It sure 'seems' like a long
start, but it could just be the normal 'long start'.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Jeff Falkiner wrote:
>
> Thanks for the help folks. We've got some work ahead of us.
>
> Jeff
>
> "DaveW" <spsffan@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:oi0ed.3801$EP4.1796@trnddc06...
> > DougW wrote:
> >
> > > Jeff Falkiner did pass the time by typing:
> > >
> > >>A good buddy recently bought a 1990 Cherokee Limited with the 4.0 litre
> > >>inline 6.
> > >>Every time he tries to start it after it's sat for awhile it takes a
> looong
> > >>time to finally fire. Time is 8-10 seconds. With winter coming, he's
> > >>concerned with keeping enough battery capacity available on cold
> Canadian
> > >>winter mornings.
> > >>
> > >>Any quick things we should check out over a couple of Canadian beers?
> The
> > >>truck has just over 50K miles and is otherwise in fantastic shape.
> > >
> > >
> > > Fuel rail pressure. Fit a gauge to it and see if it stays about 32 psi
> and
> > > doesn't drop more than 4-5psi over a few hours. If it does you either
> have
> > > a leaking pressure regulator (front of the fuel rail), drainback valve
> > > (on the fuel pump), or a leaking fuel injector. further diagnosis isn't
> too
> > > hard but you need a set of hoses built for the job.
> > >
> > > In the mean while you could try turning the key on, wait for the pump to
> > > cycle, then off, then on again. That cycles the pump and gets fuel and
> > > pressure back into the rail.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > When my fuel pump was dying (91 XJ, 4.0) last year, it took longer and
> > longer to start until one day when it just didn't. In my case, the
> > regulator and drainback valve were fine. We replaced the pump and filter
> > and everything is now tickity-boo.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > DAve

dave AKA vwdoc1

8-10 seconds is a little too long. Maybe 3-4 seconds is what I consider
normal even after sitting for weeks.

Might be a fuel problem. Have you buddy try to cycle the ign key on and off
a few times and he should hear the fuel pump prime the system and then see
if the starting time lessens.

Might be a CPS (crankshaft position sensor) problem. Have you buddy clean
the CPS terminals at the harness plug and also tighten them. Apply some
di-electric grease to the terminals too. See if that helps. ;-)

Of course the distributor may need indexing too since the history is unknown
on this Jeep.
Was a "tune-up" done? Plugs, cap, rotor, plug wires, filters, etc.?

later,
dave AKA vwdoc1
88 XJ 4.0 auto


> Jeff Falkiner wrote:
>>
>> A good buddy recently bought a 1990 Cherokee Limited with the 4.0 litre
>> inline 6.
>> Every time he tries to start it after it's sat for awhile it takes a
>> looong
>> time to finally fire. Time is 8-10 seconds. With winter coming, he's
>> concerned with keeping enough battery capacity available on cold Canadian
>> winter mornings.
>>
>> Any quick things we should check out over a couple of Canadian beers?
>> The
>> truck has just over 50K miles and is otherwise in fantastic shape.

dave AKA vwdoc1

8-10 seconds is a little too long. Maybe 3-4 seconds is what I consider
normal even after sitting for weeks.

Might be a fuel problem. Have you buddy try to cycle the ign key on and off
a few times and he should hear the fuel pump prime the system and then see
if the starting time lessens.

Might be a CPS (crankshaft position sensor) problem. Have you buddy clean
the CPS terminals at the harness plug and also tighten them. Apply some
di-electric grease to the terminals too. See if that helps. ;-)

Of course the distributor may need indexing too since the history is unknown
on this Jeep.
Was a "tune-up" done? Plugs, cap, rotor, plug wires, filters, etc.?

later,
dave AKA vwdoc1
88 XJ 4.0 auto


> Jeff Falkiner wrote:
>>
>> A good buddy recently bought a 1990 Cherokee Limited with the 4.0 litre
>> inline 6.
>> Every time he tries to start it after it's sat for awhile it takes a
>> looong
>> time to finally fire. Time is 8-10 seconds. With winter coming, he's
>> concerned with keeping enough battery capacity available on cold Canadian
>> winter mornings.
>>
>> Any quick things we should check out over a couple of Canadian beers?
>> The
>> truck has just over 50K miles and is otherwise in fantastic shape.

dave AKA vwdoc1

8-10 seconds is a little too long. Maybe 3-4 seconds is what I consider
normal even after sitting for weeks.

Might be a fuel problem. Have you buddy try to cycle the ign key on and off
a few times and he should hear the fuel pump prime the system and then see
if the starting time lessens.

Might be a CPS (crankshaft position sensor) problem. Have you buddy clean
the CPS terminals at the harness plug and also tighten them. Apply some
di-electric grease to the terminals too. See if that helps. ;-)

Of course the distributor may need indexing too since the history is unknown
on this Jeep.
Was a "tune-up" done? Plugs, cap, rotor, plug wires, filters, etc.?

later,
dave AKA vwdoc1
88 XJ 4.0 auto


> Jeff Falkiner wrote:
>>
>> A good buddy recently bought a 1990 Cherokee Limited with the 4.0 litre
>> inline 6.
>> Every time he tries to start it after it's sat for awhile it takes a
>> looong
>> time to finally fire. Time is 8-10 seconds. With winter coming, he's
>> concerned with keeping enough battery capacity available on cold Canadian
>> winter mornings.
>>
>> Any quick things we should check out over a couple of Canadian beers?
>> The
>> truck has just over 50K miles and is otherwise in fantastic shape.

Dave in Columbus

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 23:38:58 GMT, "dave AKA vwdoc1" <vwdoc1@ameritech.net>
wrote:

>8-10 seconds is a little too long. Maybe 3-4 seconds is what I consider
>normal even after sitting for weeks.
>
>Might be a fuel problem. Have you buddy try to cycle the ign key on and off
>a few times and he should hear the fuel pump prime the system and then see
>if the starting time lessens.
>
>Might be a CPS (crankshaft position sensor) problem. Have you buddy clean
>the CPS terminals at the harness plug and also tighten them. Apply some
>di-electric grease to the terminals too. See if that helps. ;-)
>
>Of course the distributor may need indexing too since the history is unknown
>on this Jeep.
>Was a "tune-up" done? Plugs, cap, rotor, plug wires, filters, etc.?
>
>later,
>dave AKA vwdoc1
>88 XJ 4.0 auto
>
>
>> Jeff Falkiner wrote:
>>>
>>> A good buddy recently bought a 1990 Cherokee Limited with the 4.0 litre
>>> inline 6.
>>> Every time he tries to start it after it's sat for awhile it takes a
>>> looong
>>> time to finally fire. Time is 8-10 seconds. With winter coming, he's
>>> concerned with keeping enough battery capacity available on cold Canadian
>>> winter mornings.
>>>
>>> Any quick things we should check out over a couple of Canadian beers?
>>> The
>>> truck has just over 50K miles and is otherwise in fantastic shape.
>


The service bulletin from Jeep about the CPS says to change the CPS AND
wire the CPS connection directly to the computer, bypassing the large
connecter directly above the brake booster.

While problems can come from a bad CPS, it is the high resistance at the
CPS connection within the large plug and socket that should be resolved
before replacing the CPS.

You should check the resistance within the CPS at varying temperatures (use
a hair dryer or heat gun) as part of the troubleshooting if a hard start-no
start-die out condition.

If the CPS seems OK, unplug the connector above the brake booster and clean
the connections for the CPS.
--

Dave in Columbus

Dave in Columbus

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 23:38:58 GMT, "dave AKA vwdoc1" <vwdoc1@ameritech.net>
wrote:

>8-10 seconds is a little too long. Maybe 3-4 seconds is what I consider
>normal even after sitting for weeks.
>
>Might be a fuel problem. Have you buddy try to cycle the ign key on and off
>a few times and he should hear the fuel pump prime the system and then see
>if the starting time lessens.
>
>Might be a CPS (crankshaft position sensor) problem. Have you buddy clean
>the CPS terminals at the harness plug and also tighten them. Apply some
>di-electric grease to the terminals too. See if that helps. ;-)
>
>Of course the distributor may need indexing too since the history is unknown
>on this Jeep.
>Was a "tune-up" done? Plugs, cap, rotor, plug wires, filters, etc.?
>
>later,
>dave AKA vwdoc1
>88 XJ 4.0 auto
>
>
>> Jeff Falkiner wrote:
>>>
>>> A good buddy recently bought a 1990 Cherokee Limited with the 4.0 litre
>>> inline 6.
>>> Every time he tries to start it after it's sat for awhile it takes a
>>> looong
>>> time to finally fire. Time is 8-10 seconds. With winter coming, he's
>>> concerned with keeping enough battery capacity available on cold Canadian
>>> winter mornings.
>>>
>>> Any quick things we should check out over a couple of Canadian beers?
>>> The
>>> truck has just over 50K miles and is otherwise in fantastic shape.
>


The service bulletin from Jeep about the CPS says to change the CPS AND
wire the CPS connection directly to the computer, bypassing the large
connecter directly above the brake booster.

While problems can come from a bad CPS, it is the high resistance at the
CPS connection within the large plug and socket that should be resolved
before replacing the CPS.

You should check the resistance within the CPS at varying temperatures (use
a hair dryer or heat gun) as part of the troubleshooting if a hard start-no
start-die out condition.

If the CPS seems OK, unplug the connector above the brake booster and clean
the connections for the CPS.
--

Dave in Columbus