L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III

Then get the spark plugs your engine calls for. Champions!
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/


"wilsonb" <wilsonbradley@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1190220047.785492.290860@g4g2000hsf.googlegro ups.com...
>
> I guess so... because I don't get your useless response.
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

SnoMan

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:43:18 -0000, wilsonb <wilsonbradley@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sep 19, 6:17 am, "DougW" <I.only.read.use...@invalid.address>
>wrote:
>> wilsonbwrote:
>> > The weirdest thing has happened recently.
>> > Grand Cherokee 2000 getting Extremely bad millage @ 14.5MPG from
>> > 17.5MPG within 1 month.
>> > Computer jumps back and fourth with MPG 19.5 then jump down to 13.5
>> > then back up to 14.5..
>> > and it's noticeably guzzling gas like crazy.
>> > (Has 1000,000miles)
>> > 4.7lt, 2wd, V8
>>
>> > So far have;
>> > Replaced all Sparks with E3
>> > Cleaned Air filter
>> > Put good gas cleaner in tank a few times now.
>> > Use regular gas
>> > Have take to Chrysler Dealer and they have no clue.
>> > (Will call back tomorrow and ask why they didn't do a full Scan on it
>> > when I had a 'full' check done on it.)
>> > I checked the exhaust and there is a black grid out of it, maybe gas
>> > running to rich? Sensors off? Fuel filter?
>>
>> > Any else have this or ideas?
>>
>> likely O2 sensor is starting to fail and causing
>> the engine to run rich.
>>
>> Do you have kids are are they borrowing yourJeep? :)
>>
>> Are you using the same gas station, and does your state
>> switch blends between summer and winter.
>>
>> --
>> DougW
>
>Thanks, I bought an expensive PDF repair manual for the Jeep. Will
>look it up..
>
>Thanks again for your input.


O2 is a possibilty. Might check ECTS (engine coolant temp sensor) as
it sets base line for mixture. Also my wifes 2000 Cherokee with a 4
banger and a stick runs noticably better, smoother and gets better MPG
too in warmer months with 89 or better octane fuel in it.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

SnoMan

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:43:18 -0000, wilsonb <wilsonbradley@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sep 19, 6:17 am, "DougW" <I.only.read.use...@invalid.address>
>wrote:
>> wilsonbwrote:
>> > The weirdest thing has happened recently.
>> > Grand Cherokee 2000 getting Extremely bad millage @ 14.5MPG from
>> > 17.5MPG within 1 month.
>> > Computer jumps back and fourth with MPG 19.5 then jump down to 13.5
>> > then back up to 14.5..
>> > and it's noticeably guzzling gas like crazy.
>> > (Has 1000,000miles)
>> > 4.7lt, 2wd, V8
>>
>> > So far have;
>> > Replaced all Sparks with E3
>> > Cleaned Air filter
>> > Put good gas cleaner in tank a few times now.
>> > Use regular gas
>> > Have take to Chrysler Dealer and they have no clue.
>> > (Will call back tomorrow and ask why they didn't do a full Scan on it
>> > when I had a 'full' check done on it.)
>> > I checked the exhaust and there is a black grid out of it, maybe gas
>> > running to rich? Sensors off? Fuel filter?
>>
>> > Any else have this or ideas?
>>
>> likely O2 sensor is starting to fail and causing
>> the engine to run rich.
>>
>> Do you have kids are are they borrowing yourJeep? :)
>>
>> Are you using the same gas station, and does your state
>> switch blends between summer and winter.
>>
>> --
>> DougW
>
>Thanks, I bought an expensive PDF repair manual for the Jeep. Will
>look it up..
>
>Thanks again for your input.


O2 is a possibilty. Might check ECTS (engine coolant temp sensor) as
it sets base line for mixture. Also my wifes 2000 Cherokee with a 4
banger and a stick runs noticably better, smoother and gets better MPG
too in warmer months with 89 or better octane fuel in it.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

SnoMan

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:43:18 -0000, wilsonb <wilsonbradley@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sep 19, 6:17 am, "DougW" <I.only.read.use...@invalid.address>
>wrote:
>> wilsonbwrote:
>> > The weirdest thing has happened recently.
>> > Grand Cherokee 2000 getting Extremely bad millage @ 14.5MPG from
>> > 17.5MPG within 1 month.
>> > Computer jumps back and fourth with MPG 19.5 then jump down to 13.5
>> > then back up to 14.5..
>> > and it's noticeably guzzling gas like crazy.
>> > (Has 1000,000miles)
>> > 4.7lt, 2wd, V8
>>
>> > So far have;
>> > Replaced all Sparks with E3
>> > Cleaned Air filter
>> > Put good gas cleaner in tank a few times now.
>> > Use regular gas
>> > Have take to Chrysler Dealer and they have no clue.
>> > (Will call back tomorrow and ask why they didn't do a full Scan on it
>> > when I had a 'full' check done on it.)
>> > I checked the exhaust and there is a black grid out of it, maybe gas
>> > running to rich? Sensors off? Fuel filter?
>>
>> > Any else have this or ideas?
>>
>> likely O2 sensor is starting to fail and causing
>> the engine to run rich.
>>
>> Do you have kids are are they borrowing yourJeep? :)
>>
>> Are you using the same gas station, and does your state
>> switch blends between summer and winter.
>>
>> --
>> DougW
>
>Thanks, I bought an expensive PDF repair manual for the Jeep. Will
>look it up..
>
>Thanks again for your input.


O2 is a possibilty. Might check ECTS (engine coolant temp sensor) as
it sets base line for mixture. Also my wifes 2000 Cherokee with a 4
banger and a stick runs noticably better, smoother and gets better MPG
too in warmer months with 89 or better octane fuel in it.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

SnoMan

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:43:18 -0000, wilsonb <wilsonbradley@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sep 19, 6:17 am, "DougW" <I.only.read.use...@invalid.address>
>wrote:
>> wilsonbwrote:
>> > The weirdest thing has happened recently.
>> > Grand Cherokee 2000 getting Extremely bad millage @ 14.5MPG from
>> > 17.5MPG within 1 month.
>> > Computer jumps back and fourth with MPG 19.5 then jump down to 13.5
>> > then back up to 14.5..
>> > and it's noticeably guzzling gas like crazy.
>> > (Has 1000,000miles)
>> > 4.7lt, 2wd, V8
>>
>> > So far have;
>> > Replaced all Sparks with E3
>> > Cleaned Air filter
>> > Put good gas cleaner in tank a few times now.
>> > Use regular gas
>> > Have take to Chrysler Dealer and they have no clue.
>> > (Will call back tomorrow and ask why they didn't do a full Scan on it
>> > when I had a 'full' check done on it.)
>> > I checked the exhaust and there is a black grid out of it, maybe gas
>> > running to rich? Sensors off? Fuel filter?
>>
>> > Any else have this or ideas?
>>
>> likely O2 sensor is starting to fail and causing
>> the engine to run rich.
>>
>> Do you have kids are are they borrowing yourJeep? :)
>>
>> Are you using the same gas station, and does your state
>> switch blends between summer and winter.
>>
>> --
>> DougW
>
>Thanks, I bought an expensive PDF repair manual for the Jeep. Will
>look it up..
>
>Thanks again for your input.


O2 is a possibilty. Might check ECTS (engine coolant temp sensor) as
it sets base line for mixture. Also my wifes 2000 Cherokee with a 4
banger and a stick runs noticably better, smoother and gets better MPG
too in warmer months with 89 or better octane fuel in it.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

reboot

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 04:57:04 -0000, wilsonb <wilsonbradley@gmail.com>
wrote:

>The weirdest thing has happened recently.
>Grand Cherokee 2000 getting Extremely bad millage @ 14.5MPG from
>17.5MPG within 1 month.
>Computer jumps back and fourth with MPG 19.5 then jump down to 13.5
>then back up to 14.5..
> and it's noticeably guzzling gas like crazy.
>(Has 1000,000miles)
>4.7lt, 2wd, V8
>
>So far have;
>Replaced all Sparks with E3
>Cleaned Air filter
>Put good gas cleaner in tank a few times now.
>Use regular gas
>Have take to Chrysler Dealer and they have no clue.
>(Will call back tomorrow and ask why they didn't do a full Scan on it
>when I had a 'full' check done on it.)
>I checked the exhaust and there is a black grid out of it, maybe gas
>running to rich? Sensors off? Fuel filter?
>
>
>Any else have this or ideas?
>
>Thanks so much..

i vote on the O2 sensors as well, i've had prior experience on 2
chrysler vehicles with the O2 sensors with exacttly the same symptoms.
poor fuel consumption (in a very short time), black inside the
tailpipe and black exhaust under WOT.

on one of these vehicles (where I had the problem w/in the first 20k
miles) it wasn't a bad sensor but the wires had been routed too close
to the exhaust manifold and burned through.

On your 4,7 these are pretty easy to get to but you need the special
socket (I got mine at Napa) to R&R. iirc there are three of these ...
one on each side ahead of the quick light-off cats and one more
downstream of the single main cat.

to my knowledge there isn't a good way to diagnose them as a
component, maybe the scan will tell you if you need to replace all
three, my guess is that at least the two upstream sensors should be
replaced.

reboot


---
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Virus Database (VPS): 000775-3, 09/19/2007
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reboot

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 04:57:04 -0000, wilsonb <wilsonbradley@gmail.com>
wrote:

>The weirdest thing has happened recently.
>Grand Cherokee 2000 getting Extremely bad millage @ 14.5MPG from
>17.5MPG within 1 month.
>Computer jumps back and fourth with MPG 19.5 then jump down to 13.5
>then back up to 14.5..
> and it's noticeably guzzling gas like crazy.
>(Has 1000,000miles)
>4.7lt, 2wd, V8
>
>So far have;
>Replaced all Sparks with E3
>Cleaned Air filter
>Put good gas cleaner in tank a few times now.
>Use regular gas
>Have take to Chrysler Dealer and they have no clue.
>(Will call back tomorrow and ask why they didn't do a full Scan on it
>when I had a 'full' check done on it.)
>I checked the exhaust and there is a black grid out of it, maybe gas
>running to rich? Sensors off? Fuel filter?
>
>
>Any else have this or ideas?
>
>Thanks so much..

i vote on the O2 sensors as well, i've had prior experience on 2
chrysler vehicles with the O2 sensors with exacttly the same symptoms.
poor fuel consumption (in a very short time), black inside the
tailpipe and black exhaust under WOT.

on one of these vehicles (where I had the problem w/in the first 20k
miles) it wasn't a bad sensor but the wires had been routed too close
to the exhaust manifold and burned through.

On your 4,7 these are pretty easy to get to but you need the special
socket (I got mine at Napa) to R&R. iirc there are three of these ...
one on each side ahead of the quick light-off cats and one more
downstream of the single main cat.

to my knowledge there isn't a good way to diagnose them as a
component, maybe the scan will tell you if you need to replace all
three, my guess is that at least the two upstream sensors should be
replaced.

reboot


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000775-3, 09/19/2007
Tested on: 9/19/2007 9:45:51 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

reboot

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 04:57:04 -0000, wilsonb <wilsonbradley@gmail.com>
wrote:

>The weirdest thing has happened recently.
>Grand Cherokee 2000 getting Extremely bad millage @ 14.5MPG from
>17.5MPG within 1 month.
>Computer jumps back and fourth with MPG 19.5 then jump down to 13.5
>then back up to 14.5..
> and it's noticeably guzzling gas like crazy.
>(Has 1000,000miles)
>4.7lt, 2wd, V8
>
>So far have;
>Replaced all Sparks with E3
>Cleaned Air filter
>Put good gas cleaner in tank a few times now.
>Use regular gas
>Have take to Chrysler Dealer and they have no clue.
>(Will call back tomorrow and ask why they didn't do a full Scan on it
>when I had a 'full' check done on it.)
>I checked the exhaust and there is a black grid out of it, maybe gas
>running to rich? Sensors off? Fuel filter?
>
>
>Any else have this or ideas?
>
>Thanks so much..

i vote on the O2 sensors as well, i've had prior experience on 2
chrysler vehicles with the O2 sensors with exacttly the same symptoms.
poor fuel consumption (in a very short time), black inside the
tailpipe and black exhaust under WOT.

on one of these vehicles (where I had the problem w/in the first 20k
miles) it wasn't a bad sensor but the wires had been routed too close
to the exhaust manifold and burned through.

On your 4,7 these are pretty easy to get to but you need the special
socket (I got mine at Napa) to R&R. iirc there are three of these ...
one on each side ahead of the quick light-off cats and one more
downstream of the single main cat.

to my knowledge there isn't a good way to diagnose them as a
component, maybe the scan will tell you if you need to replace all
three, my guess is that at least the two upstream sensors should be
replaced.

reboot


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000775-3, 09/19/2007
Tested on: 9/19/2007 9:45:51 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

reboot

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 04:57:04 -0000, wilsonb <wilsonbradley@gmail.com>
wrote:

>The weirdest thing has happened recently.
>Grand Cherokee 2000 getting Extremely bad millage @ 14.5MPG from
>17.5MPG within 1 month.
>Computer jumps back and fourth with MPG 19.5 then jump down to 13.5
>then back up to 14.5..
> and it's noticeably guzzling gas like crazy.
>(Has 1000,000miles)
>4.7lt, 2wd, V8
>
>So far have;
>Replaced all Sparks with E3
>Cleaned Air filter
>Put good gas cleaner in tank a few times now.
>Use regular gas
>Have take to Chrysler Dealer and they have no clue.
>(Will call back tomorrow and ask why they didn't do a full Scan on it
>when I had a 'full' check done on it.)
>I checked the exhaust and there is a black grid out of it, maybe gas
>running to rich? Sensors off? Fuel filter?
>
>
>Any else have this or ideas?
>
>Thanks so much..

i vote on the O2 sensors as well, i've had prior experience on 2
chrysler vehicles with the O2 sensors with exacttly the same symptoms.
poor fuel consumption (in a very short time), black inside the
tailpipe and black exhaust under WOT.

on one of these vehicles (where I had the problem w/in the first 20k
miles) it wasn't a bad sensor but the wires had been routed too close
to the exhaust manifold and burned through.

On your 4,7 these are pretty easy to get to but you need the special
socket (I got mine at Napa) to R&R. iirc there are three of these ...
one on each side ahead of the quick light-off cats and one more
downstream of the single main cat.

to my knowledge there isn't a good way to diagnose them as a
component, maybe the scan will tell you if you need to replace all
three, my guess is that at least the two upstream sensors should be
replaced.

reboot


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000775-3, 09/19/2007
Tested on: 9/19/2007 9:45:51 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

DougW

"reboot" wrote ...

> to my knowledge there isn't a good way to diagnose them as a
> component, maybe the scan will tell you if you need to replace all
> three, my guess is that at least the two upstream sensors should be
> replaced.

Yea.. I forgot the clip on the side of the I6 is notorious for
pinching and melting the O2 sensor.

As for testing, you can do it with a torch and possibly with the DRB,
but there isn't any real good test for a lazy sensor.

while back I connected my scope to the sensor and pulled a few waveforms.
...and all I can find on my compooter is sparkplug waves... :(
bah. Wonder where I saved those...

--
DougW