Peter Stolz

I did some more looking, and you're right, Earle; at least according to JP
magazine's website at
http://www.jpmagazine.com/howto/154_...ore_cases.html

"Flat tow: If your case is in the stock orientation, remove your rear
driveshaft from the axle and fasten it out of the way. If you've clocked it
flatter than stock, you may get away with the same method mentioned for the
Dana 20. Basically, it needs to have at least one gear on the rear output in
the pool of oil so it slings the oil around when the Jeep is moving. In the
stock clocking setup, this doesn't happen."
They also talk about most or all other tcases in jeeps and what to do with
them.

Pete



"Earle Horton" <apodo@gracioso.usa> wrote in message
news:55adnWQfo-K8i1fYnZ2dnUVZ_qyjnZ2d@comcast.com...
>I am not sure that the Dana 300 will oil itself properly if driven from the
> rear in neutral. You need to get an owner's manual and see what it says.
> An NV4500 upgrade doesn't really change anything in that respect. For
> your
> vehicle disconnecting the rear drive shaft sounds like a good idea.
> Locking
> hubs require you to install a free floating axle, which is a good thing,
> but
> there is the expense.
>
> Earle
>
> "Peter Stolz" <peachyracer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Lcoyh.3542$4H1.2820@newssvr17.news.prodigy.ne t...
>> OK, so with my '84 CJ, AMC 20, Dana 300, and NV4500, I should put the
> t-case
>> in neutral and put the tranny in a gear. Do I need to disconnect the
>> rear
>> drive shaft? Or, what is the downside of putting locking hubs on the
> rear?
>>
>>
>> "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
>> news:52scpuF1o2nm0U1@mid.individual.net...
>> > That's true with the Dana 20 and 300 with only one lever. I would
>> > appreciate it is someone with New Process transfer would confirm this,
> by
>> > simple putting theirs in neutral and jack up a front wheel, if they
> don't
>> > free wheeling hubs and see if you can turn the front driveshaft. I
>> > don't
>> > believe it's true, because this would quickly destroy one of the
>> > differentials.
>> > God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0
>> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >
>> > <edh3007@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> > news:1170785062.593064.102050@v33g2000cwv.googlegr oups.com...
>> >> I have a 1991 Jeep Wrangler YJ with the 2.5L four-cylinder and stock
>> >> five speed manual transmission. I assume it has the standard NP-231
>> >> transfer case.
>> >>
>> >> Although I have successfully flat-towed my YJ (maximum of about 400
>> >> miles one-way and then return about a week later), I've recently
>> >> learned that the NP-231 (at least of this era) does not have a "true"
>> >> neutral position. Instead, while it does uncouple the transmission
>> >> from the transfer case, it also couples the front and rear outputs
>> >> together. If the front axle is engaged this causes gear backlash with
>> >> the potential to destroy the transfer case. If the Center Axle
>> >> Disconnect (CAD) on the front axle is disconnected (disengaged?), then
>> >> the backlash is eliminated.
>> >>
>> >> The problem is that the vacuum operated CAD stays in the last position
>> >> it was put in. If you are preparing your YJ for flat towing and you
>> >> start the engine, the moment you shift the transfer case from 2WD to
>> >> Neutral the vacuum CAD engages the front axle. There you are with the
>> >> outputs of the transfer case locked together and the front axle live
>> >> instead of free-wheeling. Leaving you with the potential of blowing up
>> >> the transfer case.
>> >>
>> >> The standard way to disengage the CAD under normal conditions (i.e.
>> >> you've been in 4WD and are now ready to resume normal 2WD operation)
>> >> is to place the transfer case into 2WD and then put the transmission
>> >> into reverse and back up several feet. This puts the front axle back
>> >> into free-wheeling mode (assuming everything is working properly), and
>> >> you can put the transmission into normal gear and drive off.
>> >>
>> >> If you know the CAD is in this state then you can prepare for towing
>> >> simply by putting the transfer case into neutral without starting the
>> >> engine (no vacuum). Go ahead and put the transmission into neutral,
>> >> hook up to your tow vehicle and go. Some people recommend that you
>> >> leave the transmission in gear while towing. Since you have
>> >> disconnected the transmission when you put the transfer case in
>> >> neutral, this should not be necessary. Further, if the transmission is
>> >> in gear and the transfer case is accidently engaged (by a severe bump
>> >> maybe?) there will be bad consequences. You don't have to worry about
>> >> the transfer case lubrication because the rear output (which is
>> >> engaged) also drives the internal oil pump. As long as the CAD is
>> >> disengaged you are ready to tow.
>> >>
>> >> Apparently when I've towed my YJ I been fortunate in that a)I
>> >> typically back in to park, therefore I've left the jeep with the CAD
>> >> disengaged and b)I normally don't have any reason to start the jeep
>> >> prior to putting the transfer case into neutral before hooking it up
>> >> to be towed. Since I didn't understand what I was doing, I could very
>> >> easily have destroyed my transfer case without knowing why.
>> >>
>> >> Although I am comfortable with this, knowing how things work, there
>> >> are alternatives I discovered as I researched this issue.
>> >>
>> >> 1)Assuming that the CAD is already disengaged, you can just disconnect
>> >> the vacuum line from the CAD box. You'd be fine to start your engine
>> >> and move the jeep to the towing vehicle, hook up, put the transfer
>> >> case and transmission in neutral and go.
>> >>
>> >> 2)Install and use a Posi-Lock device instead of the vacuum CAD. Since
>> >> you control the front axle lock by cable, you should know the state it
>> >> is in.
>> >>
>> >> 3)Install and use external locking hubs. Not pleasant to use in foul
>> >> weather, but again you always know the state of the front axle because
>> >> you set it.
>> >>
>> >> 4)Install a transfer case conversion that gives you a true neutral.
>> >> You'd never have to worry about the state of the front axle when you
>> >> put the transfer case into neutral then.
>> >>
>> >> 5)Finally, of course, you can always tow your jeep on a trailer.
>> >>
>> >> Comments and questions are welcome.
>> >>
>> >> Your mileage may vary.
>> >> Vehicles in mirror are closer than they appear.
>> >> Cheers, Ed Humphries
>> >> Atlanta, Georgia
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

Peter Stolz

I did some more looking, and you're right, Earle; at least according to JP
magazine's website at
http://www.jpmagazine.com/howto/154_...ore_cases.html

"Flat tow: If your case is in the stock orientation, remove your rear
driveshaft from the axle and fasten it out of the way. If you've clocked it
flatter than stock, you may get away with the same method mentioned for the
Dana 20. Basically, it needs to have at least one gear on the rear output in
the pool of oil so it slings the oil around when the Jeep is moving. In the
stock clocking setup, this doesn't happen."
They also talk about most or all other tcases in jeeps and what to do with
them.

Pete



"Earle Horton" <apodo@gracioso.usa> wrote in message
news:55adnWQfo-K8i1fYnZ2dnUVZ_qyjnZ2d@comcast.com...
>I am not sure that the Dana 300 will oil itself properly if driven from the
> rear in neutral. You need to get an owner's manual and see what it says.
> An NV4500 upgrade doesn't really change anything in that respect. For
> your
> vehicle disconnecting the rear drive shaft sounds like a good idea.
> Locking
> hubs require you to install a free floating axle, which is a good thing,
> but
> there is the expense.
>
> Earle
>
> "Peter Stolz" <peachyracer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Lcoyh.3542$4H1.2820@newssvr17.news.prodigy.ne t...
>> OK, so with my '84 CJ, AMC 20, Dana 300, and NV4500, I should put the
> t-case
>> in neutral and put the tranny in a gear. Do I need to disconnect the
>> rear
>> drive shaft? Or, what is the downside of putting locking hubs on the
> rear?
>>
>>
>> "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
>> news:52scpuF1o2nm0U1@mid.individual.net...
>> > That's true with the Dana 20 and 300 with only one lever. I would
>> > appreciate it is someone with New Process transfer would confirm this,
> by
>> > simple putting theirs in neutral and jack up a front wheel, if they
> don't
>> > free wheeling hubs and see if you can turn the front driveshaft. I
>> > don't
>> > believe it's true, because this would quickly destroy one of the
>> > differentials.
>> > God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0
>> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >
>> > <edh3007@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> > news:1170785062.593064.102050@v33g2000cwv.googlegr oups.com...
>> >> I have a 1991 Jeep Wrangler YJ with the 2.5L four-cylinder and stock
>> >> five speed manual transmission. I assume it has the standard NP-231
>> >> transfer case.
>> >>
>> >> Although I have successfully flat-towed my YJ (maximum of about 400
>> >> miles one-way and then return about a week later), I've recently
>> >> learned that the NP-231 (at least of this era) does not have a "true"
>> >> neutral position. Instead, while it does uncouple the transmission
>> >> from the transfer case, it also couples the front and rear outputs
>> >> together. If the front axle is engaged this causes gear backlash with
>> >> the potential to destroy the transfer case. If the Center Axle
>> >> Disconnect (CAD) on the front axle is disconnected (disengaged?), then
>> >> the backlash is eliminated.
>> >>
>> >> The problem is that the vacuum operated CAD stays in the last position
>> >> it was put in. If you are preparing your YJ for flat towing and you
>> >> start the engine, the moment you shift the transfer case from 2WD to
>> >> Neutral the vacuum CAD engages the front axle. There you are with the
>> >> outputs of the transfer case locked together and the front axle live
>> >> instead of free-wheeling. Leaving you with the potential of blowing up
>> >> the transfer case.
>> >>
>> >> The standard way to disengage the CAD under normal conditions (i.e.
>> >> you've been in 4WD and are now ready to resume normal 2WD operation)
>> >> is to place the transfer case into 2WD and then put the transmission
>> >> into reverse and back up several feet. This puts the front axle back
>> >> into free-wheeling mode (assuming everything is working properly), and
>> >> you can put the transmission into normal gear and drive off.
>> >>
>> >> If you know the CAD is in this state then you can prepare for towing
>> >> simply by putting the transfer case into neutral without starting the
>> >> engine (no vacuum). Go ahead and put the transmission into neutral,
>> >> hook up to your tow vehicle and go. Some people recommend that you
>> >> leave the transmission in gear while towing. Since you have
>> >> disconnected the transmission when you put the transfer case in
>> >> neutral, this should not be necessary. Further, if the transmission is
>> >> in gear and the transfer case is accidently engaged (by a severe bump
>> >> maybe?) there will be bad consequences. You don't have to worry about
>> >> the transfer case lubrication because the rear output (which is
>> >> engaged) also drives the internal oil pump. As long as the CAD is
>> >> disengaged you are ready to tow.
>> >>
>> >> Apparently when I've towed my YJ I been fortunate in that a)I
>> >> typically back in to park, therefore I've left the jeep with the CAD
>> >> disengaged and b)I normally don't have any reason to start the jeep
>> >> prior to putting the transfer case into neutral before hooking it up
>> >> to be towed. Since I didn't understand what I was doing, I could very
>> >> easily have destroyed my transfer case without knowing why.
>> >>
>> >> Although I am comfortable with this, knowing how things work, there
>> >> are alternatives I discovered as I researched this issue.
>> >>
>> >> 1)Assuming that the CAD is already disengaged, you can just disconnect
>> >> the vacuum line from the CAD box. You'd be fine to start your engine
>> >> and move the jeep to the towing vehicle, hook up, put the transfer
>> >> case and transmission in neutral and go.
>> >>
>> >> 2)Install and use a Posi-Lock device instead of the vacuum CAD. Since
>> >> you control the front axle lock by cable, you should know the state it
>> >> is in.
>> >>
>> >> 3)Install and use external locking hubs. Not pleasant to use in foul
>> >> weather, but again you always know the state of the front axle because
>> >> you set it.
>> >>
>> >> 4)Install a transfer case conversion that gives you a true neutral.
>> >> You'd never have to worry about the state of the front axle when you
>> >> put the transfer case into neutral then.
>> >>
>> >> 5)Finally, of course, you can always tow your jeep on a trailer.
>> >>
>> >> Comments and questions are welcome.
>> >>
>> >> Your mileage may vary.
>> >> Vehicles in mirror are closer than they appear.
>> >> Cheers, Ed Humphries
>> >> Atlanta, Georgia
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

Peter Stolz

I did some more looking, and you're right, Earle; at least according to JP
magazine's website at
http://www.jpmagazine.com/howto/154_...ore_cases.html

"Flat tow: If your case is in the stock orientation, remove your rear
driveshaft from the axle and fasten it out of the way. If you've clocked it
flatter than stock, you may get away with the same method mentioned for the
Dana 20. Basically, it needs to have at least one gear on the rear output in
the pool of oil so it slings the oil around when the Jeep is moving. In the
stock clocking setup, this doesn't happen."
They also talk about most or all other tcases in jeeps and what to do with
them.

Pete



"Earle Horton" <apodo@gracioso.usa> wrote in message
news:55adnWQfo-K8i1fYnZ2dnUVZ_qyjnZ2d@comcast.com...
>I am not sure that the Dana 300 will oil itself properly if driven from the
> rear in neutral. You need to get an owner's manual and see what it says.
> An NV4500 upgrade doesn't really change anything in that respect. For
> your
> vehicle disconnecting the rear drive shaft sounds like a good idea.
> Locking
> hubs require you to install a free floating axle, which is a good thing,
> but
> there is the expense.
>
> Earle
>
> "Peter Stolz" <peachyracer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Lcoyh.3542$4H1.2820@newssvr17.news.prodigy.ne t...
>> OK, so with my '84 CJ, AMC 20, Dana 300, and NV4500, I should put the
> t-case
>> in neutral and put the tranny in a gear. Do I need to disconnect the
>> rear
>> drive shaft? Or, what is the downside of putting locking hubs on the
> rear?
>>
>>
>> "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
>> news:52scpuF1o2nm0U1@mid.individual.net...
>> > That's true with the Dana 20 and 300 with only one lever. I would
>> > appreciate it is someone with New Process transfer would confirm this,
> by
>> > simple putting theirs in neutral and jack up a front wheel, if they
> don't
>> > free wheeling hubs and see if you can turn the front driveshaft. I
>> > don't
>> > believe it's true, because this would quickly destroy one of the
>> > differentials.
>> > God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0
>> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >
>> > <edh3007@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> > news:1170785062.593064.102050@v33g2000cwv.googlegr oups.com...
>> >> I have a 1991 Jeep Wrangler YJ with the 2.5L four-cylinder and stock
>> >> five speed manual transmission. I assume it has the standard NP-231
>> >> transfer case.
>> >>
>> >> Although I have successfully flat-towed my YJ (maximum of about 400
>> >> miles one-way and then return about a week later), I've recently
>> >> learned that the NP-231 (at least of this era) does not have a "true"
>> >> neutral position. Instead, while it does uncouple the transmission
>> >> from the transfer case, it also couples the front and rear outputs
>> >> together. If the front axle is engaged this causes gear backlash with
>> >> the potential to destroy the transfer case. If the Center Axle
>> >> Disconnect (CAD) on the front axle is disconnected (disengaged?), then
>> >> the backlash is eliminated.
>> >>
>> >> The problem is that the vacuum operated CAD stays in the last position
>> >> it was put in. If you are preparing your YJ for flat towing and you
>> >> start the engine, the moment you shift the transfer case from 2WD to
>> >> Neutral the vacuum CAD engages the front axle. There you are with the
>> >> outputs of the transfer case locked together and the front axle live
>> >> instead of free-wheeling. Leaving you with the potential of blowing up
>> >> the transfer case.
>> >>
>> >> The standard way to disengage the CAD under normal conditions (i.e.
>> >> you've been in 4WD and are now ready to resume normal 2WD operation)
>> >> is to place the transfer case into 2WD and then put the transmission
>> >> into reverse and back up several feet. This puts the front axle back
>> >> into free-wheeling mode (assuming everything is working properly), and
>> >> you can put the transmission into normal gear and drive off.
>> >>
>> >> If you know the CAD is in this state then you can prepare for towing
>> >> simply by putting the transfer case into neutral without starting the
>> >> engine (no vacuum). Go ahead and put the transmission into neutral,
>> >> hook up to your tow vehicle and go. Some people recommend that you
>> >> leave the transmission in gear while towing. Since you have
>> >> disconnected the transmission when you put the transfer case in
>> >> neutral, this should not be necessary. Further, if the transmission is
>> >> in gear and the transfer case is accidently engaged (by a severe bump
>> >> maybe?) there will be bad consequences. You don't have to worry about
>> >> the transfer case lubrication because the rear output (which is
>> >> engaged) also drives the internal oil pump. As long as the CAD is
>> >> disengaged you are ready to tow.
>> >>
>> >> Apparently when I've towed my YJ I been fortunate in that a)I
>> >> typically back in to park, therefore I've left the jeep with the CAD
>> >> disengaged and b)I normally don't have any reason to start the jeep
>> >> prior to putting the transfer case into neutral before hooking it up
>> >> to be towed. Since I didn't understand what I was doing, I could very
>> >> easily have destroyed my transfer case without knowing why.
>> >>
>> >> Although I am comfortable with this, knowing how things work, there
>> >> are alternatives I discovered as I researched this issue.
>> >>
>> >> 1)Assuming that the CAD is already disengaged, you can just disconnect
>> >> the vacuum line from the CAD box. You'd be fine to start your engine
>> >> and move the jeep to the towing vehicle, hook up, put the transfer
>> >> case and transmission in neutral and go.
>> >>
>> >> 2)Install and use a Posi-Lock device instead of the vacuum CAD. Since
>> >> you control the front axle lock by cable, you should know the state it
>> >> is in.
>> >>
>> >> 3)Install and use external locking hubs. Not pleasant to use in foul
>> >> weather, but again you always know the state of the front axle because
>> >> you set it.
>> >>
>> >> 4)Install a transfer case conversion that gives you a true neutral.
>> >> You'd never have to worry about the state of the front axle when you
>> >> put the transfer case into neutral then.
>> >>
>> >> 5)Finally, of course, you can always tow your jeep on a trailer.
>> >>
>> >> Comments and questions are welcome.
>> >>
>> >> Your mileage may vary.
>> >> Vehicles in mirror are closer than they appear.
>> >> Cheers, Ed Humphries
>> >> Atlanta, Georgia
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III

Book marked. Thanks.
God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"Peter Stolz" <peachyracer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:25qyh.3778$MN.1707@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net ...
> I did some more looking, and you're right, Earle; at least according to JP
> magazine's website at
>
http://www.jpmagazine.com/howto/154_...ore_cases.html
>
> "Flat tow: If your case is in the stock orientation, remove your rear
> driveshaft from the axle and fasten it out of the way. If you've clocked
it
> flatter than stock, you may get away with the same method mentioned for
the
> Dana 20. Basically, it needs to have at least one gear on the rear output
in
> the pool of oil so it slings the oil around when the Jeep is moving. In
the
> stock clocking setup, this doesn't happen."
> They also talk about most or all other tcases in jeeps and what to do with
> them.
>
> Pete

L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III

Book marked. Thanks.
God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"Peter Stolz" <peachyracer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:25qyh.3778$MN.1707@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net ...
> I did some more looking, and you're right, Earle; at least according to JP
> magazine's website at
>
http://www.jpmagazine.com/howto/154_...ore_cases.html
>
> "Flat tow: If your case is in the stock orientation, remove your rear
> driveshaft from the axle and fasten it out of the way. If you've clocked
it
> flatter than stock, you may get away with the same method mentioned for
the
> Dana 20. Basically, it needs to have at least one gear on the rear output
in
> the pool of oil so it slings the oil around when the Jeep is moving. In
the
> stock clocking setup, this doesn't happen."
> They also talk about most or all other tcases in jeeps and what to do with
> them.
>
> Pete

L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III

Book marked. Thanks.
God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"Peter Stolz" <peachyracer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:25qyh.3778$MN.1707@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net ...
> I did some more looking, and you're right, Earle; at least according to JP
> magazine's website at
>
http://www.jpmagazine.com/howto/154_...ore_cases.html
>
> "Flat tow: If your case is in the stock orientation, remove your rear
> driveshaft from the axle and fasten it out of the way. If you've clocked
it
> flatter than stock, you may get away with the same method mentioned for
the
> Dana 20. Basically, it needs to have at least one gear on the rear output
in
> the pool of oil so it slings the oil around when the Jeep is moving. In
the
> stock clocking setup, this doesn't happen."
> They also talk about most or all other tcases in jeeps and what to do with
> them.
>
> Pete

L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III

Book marked. Thanks.
God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"Peter Stolz" <peachyracer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:25qyh.3778$MN.1707@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net ...
> I did some more looking, and you're right, Earle; at least according to JP
> magazine's website at
>
http://www.jpmagazine.com/howto/154_...ore_cases.html
>
> "Flat tow: If your case is in the stock orientation, remove your rear
> driveshaft from the axle and fasten it out of the way. If you've clocked
it
> flatter than stock, you may get away with the same method mentioned for
the
> Dana 20. Basically, it needs to have at least one gear on the rear output
in
> the pool of oil so it slings the oil around when the Jeep is moving. In
the
> stock clocking setup, this doesn't happen."
> They also talk about most or all other tcases in jeeps and what to do with
> them.
>
> Pete