First automatic
11-01-2005, 11:58 AM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
First automatic
My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials) is
my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the complete
lack of one) in 4L.
I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work and
play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given vehicle,
things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse stream
crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I stay
in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I was
even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
rammed from behind by a semi.
I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a gear
and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the clutch,
but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just happens
sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
anything but make things worse.
Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows exactly
how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it does
it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so it
would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than on
a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
But they evidently didn't even try.
While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
"You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally 6.)
Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed to
come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on the
brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out of
trouble.
But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
"Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the fact
that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its "no-step"
door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain on
the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there would
be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess maybe
they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
Cheers,
Fred Klingener
my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the complete
lack of one) in 4L.
I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work and
play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given vehicle,
things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse stream
crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I stay
in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I was
even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
rammed from behind by a semi.
I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a gear
and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the clutch,
but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just happens
sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
anything but make things worse.
Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows exactly
how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it does
it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so it
would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than on
a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
But they evidently didn't even try.
While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
"You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally 6.)
Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed to
come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on the
brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out of
trouble.
But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
"Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the fact
that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its "no-step"
door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain on
the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there would
be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess maybe
they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
Cheers,
Fred Klingener
11-01-2005, 01:58 PM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
You're a pretty good writer. Send a letter to one of the four wheel drive
magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.
I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the
automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other
hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving. I
suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to
driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine
braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real
slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual
transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your metaphor
of driving into a concrete wall.
Earle
"Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
is
> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
complete
> lack of one) in 4L.
>
> I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
and
> play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
vehicle,
> things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
stream
> crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
> rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
>
> But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
stay
> in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I was
> even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
> rammed from behind by a semi.
>
> I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a gear
> and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
clutch,
> but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
happens
> sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
> anything but make things worse.
>
> Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
exactly
> how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
> damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it does
> it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
it
> would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
> engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
on
> a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
>
> But they evidently didn't even try.
>
> While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
> guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
> must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
> Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
> stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
> you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
> supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
> "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
> around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
6.)
> Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed to
> come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
>
> So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
the
> brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out of
> trouble.
>
> But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
> "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
>
> Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
fact
> that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
> take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its "no-step"
> door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
> logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain on
> the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
> recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there would
> be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
maybe
> they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
>
> Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
>
> Cheers,
> Fred Klingener
>
>
>
magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.
I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the
automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other
hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving. I
suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to
driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine
braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real
slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual
transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your metaphor
of driving into a concrete wall.
Earle
"Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
is
> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
complete
> lack of one) in 4L.
>
> I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
and
> play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
vehicle,
> things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
stream
> crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
> rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
>
> But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
stay
> in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I was
> even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
> rammed from behind by a semi.
>
> I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a gear
> and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
clutch,
> but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
happens
> sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
> anything but make things worse.
>
> Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
exactly
> how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
> damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it does
> it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
it
> would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
> engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
on
> a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
>
> But they evidently didn't even try.
>
> While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
> guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
> must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
> Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
> stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
> you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
> supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
> "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
> around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
6.)
> Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed to
> come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
>
> So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
the
> brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out of
> trouble.
>
> But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
> "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
>
> Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
fact
> that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
> take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its "no-step"
> door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
> logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain on
> the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
> recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there would
> be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
maybe
> they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
>
> Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
>
> Cheers,
> Fred Klingener
>
>
>
11-01-2005, 01:58 PM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
You're a pretty good writer. Send a letter to one of the four wheel drive
magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.
I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the
automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other
hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving. I
suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to
driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine
braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real
slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual
transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your metaphor
of driving into a concrete wall.
Earle
"Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
is
> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
complete
> lack of one) in 4L.
>
> I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
and
> play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
vehicle,
> things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
stream
> crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
> rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
>
> But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
stay
> in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I was
> even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
> rammed from behind by a semi.
>
> I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a gear
> and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
clutch,
> but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
happens
> sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
> anything but make things worse.
>
> Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
exactly
> how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
> damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it does
> it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
it
> would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
> engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
on
> a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
>
> But they evidently didn't even try.
>
> While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
> guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
> must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
> Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
> stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
> you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
> supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
> "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
> around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
6.)
> Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed to
> come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
>
> So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
the
> brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out of
> trouble.
>
> But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
> "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
>
> Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
fact
> that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
> take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its "no-step"
> door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
> logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain on
> the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
> recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there would
> be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
maybe
> they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
>
> Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
>
> Cheers,
> Fred Klingener
>
>
>
magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.
I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the
automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other
hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving. I
suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to
driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine
braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real
slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual
transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your metaphor
of driving into a concrete wall.
Earle
"Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
is
> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
complete
> lack of one) in 4L.
>
> I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
and
> play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
vehicle,
> things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
stream
> crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
> rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
>
> But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
stay
> in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I was
> even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
> rammed from behind by a semi.
>
> I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a gear
> and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
clutch,
> but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
happens
> sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
> anything but make things worse.
>
> Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
exactly
> how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
> damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it does
> it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
it
> would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
> engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
on
> a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
>
> But they evidently didn't even try.
>
> While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
> guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
> must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
> Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
> stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
> you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
> supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
> "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
> around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
6.)
> Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed to
> come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
>
> So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
the
> brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out of
> trouble.
>
> But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
> "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
>
> Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
fact
> that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
> take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its "no-step"
> door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
> logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain on
> the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
> recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there would
> be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
maybe
> they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
>
> Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
>
> Cheers,
> Fred Klingener
>
>
>
11-01-2005, 01:58 PM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
You're a pretty good writer. Send a letter to one of the four wheel drive
magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.
I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the
automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other
hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving. I
suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to
driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine
braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real
slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual
transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your metaphor
of driving into a concrete wall.
Earle
"Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
is
> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
complete
> lack of one) in 4L.
>
> I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
and
> play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
vehicle,
> things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
stream
> crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
> rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
>
> But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
stay
> in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I was
> even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
> rammed from behind by a semi.
>
> I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a gear
> and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
clutch,
> but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
happens
> sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
> anything but make things worse.
>
> Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
exactly
> how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
> damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it does
> it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
it
> would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
> engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
on
> a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
>
> But they evidently didn't even try.
>
> While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
> guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
> must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
> Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
> stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
> you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
> supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
> "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
> around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
6.)
> Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed to
> come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
>
> So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
the
> brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out of
> trouble.
>
> But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
> "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
>
> Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
fact
> that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
> take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its "no-step"
> door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
> logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain on
> the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
> recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there would
> be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
maybe
> they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
>
> Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
>
> Cheers,
> Fred Klingener
>
>
>
magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.
I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the
automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other
hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving. I
suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to
driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine
braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real
slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual
transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your metaphor
of driving into a concrete wall.
Earle
"Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
is
> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
complete
> lack of one) in 4L.
>
> I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
and
> play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
vehicle,
> things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
stream
> crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
> rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
>
> But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
stay
> in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I was
> even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
> rammed from behind by a semi.
>
> I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a gear
> and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
clutch,
> but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
happens
> sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
> anything but make things worse.
>
> Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
exactly
> how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
> damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it does
> it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
it
> would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
> engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
on
> a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
>
> But they evidently didn't even try.
>
> While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
> guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
> must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
> Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
> stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
> you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
> supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
> "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
> around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
6.)
> Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed to
> come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
>
> So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
the
> brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out of
> trouble.
>
> But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
> "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
>
> Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
fact
> that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
> take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its "no-step"
> door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
> logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain on
> the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
> recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there would
> be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
maybe
> they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
>
> Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
>
> Cheers,
> Fred Klingener
>
>
>
11-01-2005, 02:13 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
Do you by any chance have a CB or other transmitter on board?
Just a thought, but if the power or antenna cables run anywhere near the
shift control module, they will screw it up 9 times out of 10 to the
point of a TJ auto even hitting neutral every time one gent keyed up his
CB.
There is a TSB out on the proper routing for the wiring I believe.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Fred Klingener wrote:
>
> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials) is
> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the complete
> lack of one) in 4L.
<Snip>
Just a thought, but if the power or antenna cables run anywhere near the
shift control module, they will screw it up 9 times out of 10 to the
point of a TJ auto even hitting neutral every time one gent keyed up his
CB.
There is a TSB out on the proper routing for the wiring I believe.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Fred Klingener wrote:
>
> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials) is
> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the complete
> lack of one) in 4L.
<Snip>
11-01-2005, 02:13 PM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
Do you by any chance have a CB or other transmitter on board?
Just a thought, but if the power or antenna cables run anywhere near the
shift control module, they will screw it up 9 times out of 10 to the
point of a TJ auto even hitting neutral every time one gent keyed up his
CB.
There is a TSB out on the proper routing for the wiring I believe.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Fred Klingener wrote:
>
> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials) is
> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the complete
> lack of one) in 4L.
<Snip>
Just a thought, but if the power or antenna cables run anywhere near the
shift control module, they will screw it up 9 times out of 10 to the
point of a TJ auto even hitting neutral every time one gent keyed up his
CB.
There is a TSB out on the proper routing for the wiring I believe.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Fred Klingener wrote:
>
> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials) is
> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the complete
> lack of one) in 4L.
<Snip>
11-01-2005, 02:13 PM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
Do you by any chance have a CB or other transmitter on board?
Just a thought, but if the power or antenna cables run anywhere near the
shift control module, they will screw it up 9 times out of 10 to the
point of a TJ auto even hitting neutral every time one gent keyed up his
CB.
There is a TSB out on the proper routing for the wiring I believe.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Fred Klingener wrote:
>
> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials) is
> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the complete
> lack of one) in 4L.
<Snip>
Just a thought, but if the power or antenna cables run anywhere near the
shift control module, they will screw it up 9 times out of 10 to the
point of a TJ auto even hitting neutral every time one gent keyed up his
CB.
There is a TSB out on the proper routing for the wiring I believe.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Fred Klingener wrote:
>
> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials) is
> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the complete
> lack of one) in 4L.
<Snip>
11-01-2005, 03:13 PM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
I second the thought. He should write Daimler at:
http://www.jeep.com/universal/J/inde...r=wccs&prefix=
Maybe they'll modify their transmission to work like Real Fords and lock
in any gear the lever is put in, most embarrassing went trying to cross
a busy intersection starting out in second.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> You're a pretty good writer. Send a letter to one of the four wheel drive
> magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.
>
> I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the
> automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other
> hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving. I
> suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to
> driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine
> braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real
> slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual
> transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your metaphor
> of driving into a concrete wall.
>
> Earle
>
> "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
> news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
> > My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
> is
> > my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
> complete
> > lack of one) in 4L.
> >
> > I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
> and
> > play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
> vehicle,
> > things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
> stream
> > crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
> > rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
> >
> > But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
> stay
> > in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I was
> > even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
> > rammed from behind by a semi.
> >
> > I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a gear
> > and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
> clutch,
> > but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
> happens
> > sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
> > anything but make things worse.
> >
> > Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
> exactly
> > how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
> > damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it does
> > it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
> it
> > would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
> > engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
> on
> > a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
> >
> > But they evidently didn't even try.
> >
> > While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
> > guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
> > must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
> > Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
> > stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
> > you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
> > supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
> > "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
> > around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
> 6.)
> > Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed to
> > come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
> >
> > So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
> the
> > brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out of
> > trouble.
> >
> > But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
> > "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
> >
> > Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
> fact
> > that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
> > take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its "no-step"
> > door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
> > logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain on
> > the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
> > recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there would
> > be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
> maybe
> > they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
> >
> > Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Fred Klingener
> >
> >
> >
http://www.jeep.com/universal/J/inde...r=wccs&prefix=
Maybe they'll modify their transmission to work like Real Fords and lock
in any gear the lever is put in, most embarrassing went trying to cross
a busy intersection starting out in second.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> You're a pretty good writer. Send a letter to one of the four wheel drive
> magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.
>
> I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the
> automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other
> hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving. I
> suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to
> driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine
> braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real
> slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual
> transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your metaphor
> of driving into a concrete wall.
>
> Earle
>
> "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
> news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
> > My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
> is
> > my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
> complete
> > lack of one) in 4L.
> >
> > I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
> and
> > play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
> vehicle,
> > things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
> stream
> > crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
> > rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
> >
> > But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
> stay
> > in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I was
> > even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
> > rammed from behind by a semi.
> >
> > I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a gear
> > and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
> clutch,
> > but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
> happens
> > sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
> > anything but make things worse.
> >
> > Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
> exactly
> > how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
> > damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it does
> > it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
> it
> > would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
> > engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
> on
> > a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
> >
> > But they evidently didn't even try.
> >
> > While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
> > guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
> > must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
> > Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
> > stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
> > you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
> > supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
> > "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
> > around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
> 6.)
> > Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed to
> > come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
> >
> > So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
> the
> > brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out of
> > trouble.
> >
> > But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
> > "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
> >
> > Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
> fact
> > that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
> > take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its "no-step"
> > door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
> > logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain on
> > the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
> > recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there would
> > be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
> maybe
> > they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
> >
> > Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Fred Klingener
> >
> >
> >
11-01-2005, 03:13 PM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
I second the thought. He should write Daimler at:
http://www.jeep.com/universal/J/inde...r=wccs&prefix=
Maybe they'll modify their transmission to work like Real Fords and lock
in any gear the lever is put in, most embarrassing went trying to cross
a busy intersection starting out in second.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> You're a pretty good writer. Send a letter to one of the four wheel drive
> magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.
>
> I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the
> automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other
> hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving. I
> suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to
> driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine
> braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real
> slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual
> transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your metaphor
> of driving into a concrete wall.
>
> Earle
>
> "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
> news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
> > My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
> is
> > my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
> complete
> > lack of one) in 4L.
> >
> > I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
> and
> > play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
> vehicle,
> > things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
> stream
> > crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
> > rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
> >
> > But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
> stay
> > in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I was
> > even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
> > rammed from behind by a semi.
> >
> > I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a gear
> > and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
> clutch,
> > but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
> happens
> > sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
> > anything but make things worse.
> >
> > Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
> exactly
> > how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
> > damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it does
> > it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
> it
> > would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
> > engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
> on
> > a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
> >
> > But they evidently didn't even try.
> >
> > While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
> > guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
> > must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
> > Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
> > stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
> > you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
> > supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
> > "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
> > around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
> 6.)
> > Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed to
> > come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
> >
> > So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
> the
> > brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out of
> > trouble.
> >
> > But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
> > "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
> >
> > Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
> fact
> > that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
> > take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its "no-step"
> > door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
> > logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain on
> > the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
> > recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there would
> > be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
> maybe
> > they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
> >
> > Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Fred Klingener
> >
> >
> >
http://www.jeep.com/universal/J/inde...r=wccs&prefix=
Maybe they'll modify their transmission to work like Real Fords and lock
in any gear the lever is put in, most embarrassing went trying to cross
a busy intersection starting out in second.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> You're a pretty good writer. Send a letter to one of the four wheel drive
> magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.
>
> I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the
> automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other
> hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving. I
> suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to
> driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine
> braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real
> slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual
> transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your metaphor
> of driving into a concrete wall.
>
> Earle
>
> "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
> news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
> > My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
> is
> > my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
> complete
> > lack of one) in 4L.
> >
> > I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
> and
> > play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
> vehicle,
> > things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
> stream
> > crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
> > rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
> >
> > But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
> stay
> > in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I was
> > even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
> > rammed from behind by a semi.
> >
> > I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a gear
> > and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
> clutch,
> > but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
> happens
> > sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
> > anything but make things worse.
> >
> > Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
> exactly
> > how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
> > damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it does
> > it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
> it
> > would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
> > engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
> on
> > a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
> >
> > But they evidently didn't even try.
> >
> > While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
> > guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
> > must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
> > Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
> > stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
> > you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
> > supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
> > "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
> > around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
> 6.)
> > Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed to
> > come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
> >
> > So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
> the
> > brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out of
> > trouble.
> >
> > But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
> > "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
> >
> > Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
> fact
> > that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
> > take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its "no-step"
> > door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
> > logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain on
> > the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
> > recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there would
> > be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
> maybe
> > they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
> >
> > Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Fred Klingener
> >
> >
> >
11-01-2005, 03:13 PM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
I second the thought. He should write Daimler at:
http://www.jeep.com/universal/J/inde...r=wccs&prefix=
Maybe they'll modify their transmission to work like Real Fords and lock
in any gear the lever is put in, most embarrassing went trying to cross
a busy intersection starting out in second.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> You're a pretty good writer. Send a letter to one of the four wheel drive
> magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.
>
> I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the
> automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other
> hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving. I
> suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to
> driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine
> braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real
> slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual
> transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your metaphor
> of driving into a concrete wall.
>
> Earle
>
> "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
> news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
> > My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
> is
> > my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
> complete
> > lack of one) in 4L.
> >
> > I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
> and
> > play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
> vehicle,
> > things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
> stream
> > crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
> > rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
> >
> > But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
> stay
> > in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I was
> > even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
> > rammed from behind by a semi.
> >
> > I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a gear
> > and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
> clutch,
> > but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
> happens
> > sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
> > anything but make things worse.
> >
> > Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
> exactly
> > how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
> > damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it does
> > it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
> it
> > would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
> > engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
> on
> > a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
> >
> > But they evidently didn't even try.
> >
> > While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
> > guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
> > must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
> > Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
> > stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
> > you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
> > supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
> > "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
> > around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
> 6.)
> > Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed to
> > come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
> >
> > So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
> the
> > brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out of
> > trouble.
> >
> > But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
> > "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
> >
> > Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
> fact
> > that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
> > take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its "no-step"
> > door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
> > logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain on
> > the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
> > recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there would
> > be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
> maybe
> > they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
> >
> > Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Fred Klingener
> >
> >
> >
http://www.jeep.com/universal/J/inde...r=wccs&prefix=
Maybe they'll modify their transmission to work like Real Fords and lock
in any gear the lever is put in, most embarrassing went trying to cross
a busy intersection starting out in second.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> You're a pretty good writer. Send a letter to one of the four wheel drive
> magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.
>
> I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the
> automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other
> hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving. I
> suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to
> driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine
> braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real
> slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual
> transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your metaphor
> of driving into a concrete wall.
>
> Earle
>
> "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
> news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
> > My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
> is
> > my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
> complete
> > lack of one) in 4L.
> >
> > I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
> and
> > play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
> vehicle,
> > things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
> stream
> > crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
> > rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
> >
> > But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
> stay
> > in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I was
> > even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
> > rammed from behind by a semi.
> >
> > I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a gear
> > and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
> clutch,
> > but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
> happens
> > sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
> > anything but make things worse.
> >
> > Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
> exactly
> > how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
> > damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it does
> > it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
> it
> > would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
> > engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
> on
> > a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
> >
> > But they evidently didn't even try.
> >
> > While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
> > guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
> > must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
> > Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
> > stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
> > you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
> > supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
> > "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
> > around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
> 6.)
> > Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed to
> > come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
> >
> > So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
> the
> > brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out of
> > trouble.
> >
> > But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
> > "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
> >
> > Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
> fact
> > that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
> > take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its "no-step"
> > door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
> > logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain on
> > the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
> > recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there would
> > be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
> maybe
> > they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
> >
> > Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Fred Klingener
> >
> >
> >