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Re: Fire Damage Wiring Repair
randallbrink@adelphia.net wrote:
> Lee: > > Actually, the fire was of known origin--the switch itself. It burned > the switch and the wire connector badly, and caught the instrument > cluster on fire as well. Hurm. From what I've read in this thread I'm not sure that we do know the origin. What we know is that you had a fire at the headlight switch, but we don't know _why_. It could have been rust on the contacts making it overheat (as happened once to my CJ's headlight dimmer foot-switch), it could have been a mechanical failure in the switch causing a short that melted stuff, or I suspect that it _could_ have been simply a symptom of a fault someplace else, the switch gave up before the fuses did and the switch fire was just the most noticeable part of it. I'm not trying to be harsh here, I'm just trying to help keep you from being like Yossarian in _Catch-22_ and bandaging the wrong wound on Snowden. > The radio has been replaced the a JVC after-market box, but when, I > don't know. The radio works, but the radio light comes on with the > ignition switch like the panel lights, whereas it should come on with > the headlight switch. OK, I was looking for recent (as in just before this happened) work on the radio, so it wasn't an original cause of the problem. > The panel and interior lighting rheostat does not work when the panel > lights are illuminated just with the ignition switch on (acc.) However, > the interior under-dash courtesy lights and the instrument light > rheostat work normally by turnning the the headlight switch handle, as > norma. OK, that's weirder still. There's a wiring fault someplace besides the headlight switch and its harness, there shouldn't be any key-switched voltage anywhere in the lighting system (engine indicator lights are not lighting circuits). Don't be misled by the physical proximity of the panel lamp rheostat and the courtesy light switch: The panel light control takes power (B+) from the parking light switch, squeezes it down on the rheostat and sends it out to the panel lamps, after the lamps it goes to ground (B-) on the instrument panel. The courtesy light circuit feeds B+ directly to the courtesy lamps which then look for ground through the door switchs or the "courtesy" setting on the headlamp switch. I ran back through Google-Groups but couldn't find any mention of what year Grand Wagoneer you've got. In the other message you posted you mentioned that now you pop the tail/parking lamp fuse and another fuse next to the A/C socket. Is this your fuse block? Is the other fuse that pops the one shown on the lower right corner -- the heater fan fuse? <URL:http://oljeep.com/gw/elec/84-86_FuseBlock.jpg> When it was acting normal, did your heater fan always come on at a low-low setting when the ignition switch was on? (Pressurized cabin, the fan was always on with the key switch to keep exhaust gases out, like GM's, it was a Cherokee feature from at least 1989 on, dunno about GWs). In an early message you mentioned that you replaced the instrument cluster and the _heater controls_ for fire damage. I'm wondering if your initial problem might have been someplace in the blower circuit. Because you mentioned that the headlight switch rheostat smoked when you first replaced it I suspect that the problem is not in your parking lights or headlights but in the panel lamp circuit and that the switch was simply the weakest link. Another way to try to narrow this down -- with the headlamp switch off, turn the key switch on so your panel lamps come up (the fault you describe -- light switch off, key on, panel lights come on). One by one pull and leave out fuses from the panel until the lights go out or dim. This tells you which fused circuits are feeding the panel lamp circuit. Now pull all the fuses and replace them one by one, leaving out the one(s) that you found powering the panel lamps, check at each step to see if any of these are also powering the panel lamps. This should tell you which fused circuits are _not_ involved. I'm betting that you'll find that the TAIL and the FAN HTR fuses both feed the panel lights. This link might be useful to you, depending on your year: <URL:http://oljeep.com/gw/elec/GW_wiring.html> |
Re: Fire Damage Wiring Repair
randallbrink@adelphia.net wrote:
> Lee: > > Actually, the fire was of known origin--the switch itself. It burned > the switch and the wire connector badly, and caught the instrument > cluster on fire as well. Hurm. From what I've read in this thread I'm not sure that we do know the origin. What we know is that you had a fire at the headlight switch, but we don't know _why_. It could have been rust on the contacts making it overheat (as happened once to my CJ's headlight dimmer foot-switch), it could have been a mechanical failure in the switch causing a short that melted stuff, or I suspect that it _could_ have been simply a symptom of a fault someplace else, the switch gave up before the fuses did and the switch fire was just the most noticeable part of it. I'm not trying to be harsh here, I'm just trying to help keep you from being like Yossarian in _Catch-22_ and bandaging the wrong wound on Snowden. > The radio has been replaced the a JVC after-market box, but when, I > don't know. The radio works, but the radio light comes on with the > ignition switch like the panel lights, whereas it should come on with > the headlight switch. OK, I was looking for recent (as in just before this happened) work on the radio, so it wasn't an original cause of the problem. > The panel and interior lighting rheostat does not work when the panel > lights are illuminated just with the ignition switch on (acc.) However, > the interior under-dash courtesy lights and the instrument light > rheostat work normally by turnning the the headlight switch handle, as > norma. OK, that's weirder still. There's a wiring fault someplace besides the headlight switch and its harness, there shouldn't be any key-switched voltage anywhere in the lighting system (engine indicator lights are not lighting circuits). Don't be misled by the physical proximity of the panel lamp rheostat and the courtesy light switch: The panel light control takes power (B+) from the parking light switch, squeezes it down on the rheostat and sends it out to the panel lamps, after the lamps it goes to ground (B-) on the instrument panel. The courtesy light circuit feeds B+ directly to the courtesy lamps which then look for ground through the door switchs or the "courtesy" setting on the headlamp switch. I ran back through Google-Groups but couldn't find any mention of what year Grand Wagoneer you've got. In the other message you posted you mentioned that now you pop the tail/parking lamp fuse and another fuse next to the A/C socket. Is this your fuse block? Is the other fuse that pops the one shown on the lower right corner -- the heater fan fuse? <URL:http://oljeep.com/gw/elec/84-86_FuseBlock.jpg> When it was acting normal, did your heater fan always come on at a low-low setting when the ignition switch was on? (Pressurized cabin, the fan was always on with the key switch to keep exhaust gases out, like GM's, it was a Cherokee feature from at least 1989 on, dunno about GWs). In an early message you mentioned that you replaced the instrument cluster and the _heater controls_ for fire damage. I'm wondering if your initial problem might have been someplace in the blower circuit. Because you mentioned that the headlight switch rheostat smoked when you first replaced it I suspect that the problem is not in your parking lights or headlights but in the panel lamp circuit and that the switch was simply the weakest link. Another way to try to narrow this down -- with the headlamp switch off, turn the key switch on so your panel lamps come up (the fault you describe -- light switch off, key on, panel lights come on). One by one pull and leave out fuses from the panel until the lights go out or dim. This tells you which fused circuits are feeding the panel lamp circuit. Now pull all the fuses and replace them one by one, leaving out the one(s) that you found powering the panel lamps, check at each step to see if any of these are also powering the panel lamps. This should tell you which fused circuits are _not_ involved. I'm betting that you'll find that the TAIL and the FAN HTR fuses both feed the panel lights. This link might be useful to you, depending on your year: <URL:http://oljeep.com/gw/elec/GW_wiring.html> |
Re: Fire Damage Wiring Repair
Lee:
You were on the right track with the theory that, as it turns out, the fire did not originate with an overheated headlight switch as wrongly suspected. Adhering to this theory cost me a lot of wasted days and frustration, when in fact, the fire problem was due to a completely different cause (see previous response to Mike Romain). After troubleshooting by process of elimination as you described, the actual fault was identified as a haywire shunt of some sort involving an after-market, probably DIY-installed radio that was grafted into the circuit for the headlight wiring and switch. Thanks particularly for the great diagram of the Wagoneer Fuse Block, which I have long been seeking (My manual, oddly enough, does not have one separate from the wiring diagram itself) and for the link to the "Ol' Jeep" website. Randall Brink 1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer |
Re: Fire Damage Wiring Repair
Lee:
You were on the right track with the theory that, as it turns out, the fire did not originate with an overheated headlight switch as wrongly suspected. Adhering to this theory cost me a lot of wasted days and frustration, when in fact, the fire problem was due to a completely different cause (see previous response to Mike Romain). After troubleshooting by process of elimination as you described, the actual fault was identified as a haywire shunt of some sort involving an after-market, probably DIY-installed radio that was grafted into the circuit for the headlight wiring and switch. Thanks particularly for the great diagram of the Wagoneer Fuse Block, which I have long been seeking (My manual, oddly enough, does not have one separate from the wiring diagram itself) and for the link to the "Ol' Jeep" website. Randall Brink 1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer |
Re: Fire Damage Wiring Repair
Lee:
You were on the right track with the theory that, as it turns out, the fire did not originate with an overheated headlight switch as wrongly suspected. Adhering to this theory cost me a lot of wasted days and frustration, when in fact, the fire problem was due to a completely different cause (see previous response to Mike Romain). After troubleshooting by process of elimination as you described, the actual fault was identified as a haywire shunt of some sort involving an after-market, probably DIY-installed radio that was grafted into the circuit for the headlight wiring and switch. Thanks particularly for the great diagram of the Wagoneer Fuse Block, which I have long been seeking (My manual, oddly enough, does not have one separate from the wiring diagram itself) and for the link to the "Ol' Jeep" website. Randall Brink 1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer |
Re: Fire Damage Wiring Repair
Mike:
You were right again, there was a swith/wiring problem still, and although I strongly suspected a short within the harness, it turned out not to be so, fortunately. On top of all that, I was not really working on the root of the problem all along. What had occured was that someone installed an after-market radio in this Wagoneer, and in so doing, wired into the headlight switch to obtain electrical power. The radio was feeding rogue power back into the switch, causing the host of weird anomolies that I have described here throughout the entire saga. Consequently, the faulty wiring has been corrected, the headlamps work, the instrument light light only when they are supposed to, the headlight Hi/Lo works fine, and all is right with the world. My foglamps don't work, but I suspect that both of the the original-equipment bulbs (SAI Marchal) are shot. They are increasingly difficult to find, and I do not know if there is any other source of those particular lamps. Many thanks to you and to all who helped through this very strange project. Randall Brink |
Re: Fire Damage Wiring Repair
Mike:
You were right again, there was a swith/wiring problem still, and although I strongly suspected a short within the harness, it turned out not to be so, fortunately. On top of all that, I was not really working on the root of the problem all along. What had occured was that someone installed an after-market radio in this Wagoneer, and in so doing, wired into the headlight switch to obtain electrical power. The radio was feeding rogue power back into the switch, causing the host of weird anomolies that I have described here throughout the entire saga. Consequently, the faulty wiring has been corrected, the headlamps work, the instrument light light only when they are supposed to, the headlight Hi/Lo works fine, and all is right with the world. My foglamps don't work, but I suspect that both of the the original-equipment bulbs (SAI Marchal) are shot. They are increasingly difficult to find, and I do not know if there is any other source of those particular lamps. Many thanks to you and to all who helped through this very strange project. Randall Brink |
Re: Fire Damage Wiring Repair
Mike:
You were right again, there was a swith/wiring problem still, and although I strongly suspected a short within the harness, it turned out not to be so, fortunately. On top of all that, I was not really working on the root of the problem all along. What had occured was that someone installed an after-market radio in this Wagoneer, and in so doing, wired into the headlight switch to obtain electrical power. The radio was feeding rogue power back into the switch, causing the host of weird anomolies that I have described here throughout the entire saga. Consequently, the faulty wiring has been corrected, the headlamps work, the instrument light light only when they are supposed to, the headlight Hi/Lo works fine, and all is right with the world. My foglamps don't work, but I suspect that both of the the original-equipment bulbs (SAI Marchal) are shot. They are increasingly difficult to find, and I do not know if there is any other source of those particular lamps. Many thanks to you and to all who helped through this very strange project. Randall Brink |
Re: Fire Damage Wiring Repair
Wow!
Wiring burns are sure a pain aren't they? Radios are sneaky. Aftermarket setups especially. Good to hear you nailed it. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) "randallbrink@adelphia.net" wrote: > > Mike: > > You were right again, there was a swith/wiring problem still, and > although I strongly suspected a short within the harness, it turned out > not to be so, fortunately. > > On top of all that, I was not really working on the root of the problem > all along. > > What had occured was that someone installed an after-market radio in > this Wagoneer, and in so doing, wired into the headlight switch to > obtain electrical power. The radio was feeding rogue power back into > the switch, causing the host of weird anomolies that I have described > here throughout the entire saga. > > Consequently, the faulty wiring has been corrected, the headlamps work, > the instrument light light only when they are supposed to, the > headlight Hi/Lo works fine, and all is right with the world. My > foglamps don't work, but I suspect that both of the the > original-equipment bulbs (SAI Marchal) are shot. They are increasingly > difficult to find, and I do not know if there is any other source of > those particular lamps. > > Many thanks to you and to all who helped through this very strange > project. > > Randall Brink |
Re: Fire Damage Wiring Repair
Wow!
Wiring burns are sure a pain aren't they? Radios are sneaky. Aftermarket setups especially. Good to hear you nailed it. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) "randallbrink@adelphia.net" wrote: > > Mike: > > You were right again, there was a swith/wiring problem still, and > although I strongly suspected a short within the harness, it turned out > not to be so, fortunately. > > On top of all that, I was not really working on the root of the problem > all along. > > What had occured was that someone installed an after-market radio in > this Wagoneer, and in so doing, wired into the headlight switch to > obtain electrical power. The radio was feeding rogue power back into > the switch, causing the host of weird anomolies that I have described > here throughout the entire saga. > > Consequently, the faulty wiring has been corrected, the headlamps work, > the instrument light light only when they are supposed to, the > headlight Hi/Lo works fine, and all is right with the world. My > foglamps don't work, but I suspect that both of the the > original-equipment bulbs (SAI Marchal) are shot. They are increasingly > difficult to find, and I do not know if there is any other source of > those particular lamps. > > Many thanks to you and to all who helped through this very strange > project. > > Randall Brink |
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