engine sealing
04-24-2007, 01:12 AM
#61
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: engine sealing
"Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:462d8d1b$0$496$815e3792@news.qwest.net...
> Mike Romain wrote:
>
> > The big thing to watch for is the lights! You have to cool them off
> > before crossing water or they have a tendency to crack...
> >
> > The alternator might not like being under water for too long, but the
> > starter doesn't care much. I regularly hose out my alternator after mud
> > runs even.
> >
>
> Figure that running the alternator submerged will likely cause it to
> indicate a failure and stop charging until you get the film of water off
> the brushes. Never had any problem from it, but the first time the ALT
> light comes on 40 miles from nowhere gets your attention. I figure it's
> like wet brakes - they'll dry, but you may suffer temporary inconvenience.
>
That's what the fan blades on the rotor are for, to dry it off. ;^)
Earle
news:462d8d1b$0$496$815e3792@news.qwest.net...
> Mike Romain wrote:
>
> > The big thing to watch for is the lights! You have to cool them off
> > before crossing water or they have a tendency to crack...
> >
> > The alternator might not like being under water for too long, but the
> > starter doesn't care much. I regularly hose out my alternator after mud
> > runs even.
> >
>
> Figure that running the alternator submerged will likely cause it to
> indicate a failure and stop charging until you get the film of water off
> the brushes. Never had any problem from it, but the first time the ALT
> light comes on 40 miles from nowhere gets your attention. I figure it's
> like wet brakes - they'll dry, but you may suffer temporary inconvenience.
>
That's what the fan blades on the rotor are for, to dry it off. ;^)
Earle
05-04-2007, 09:53 AM
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: engine sealing
On Apr 22, 11:10 pm, "Jeff Strickland" <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Why? Is water a problem?
>
> I don't know of any engine that is sealed enough to keep the starter and
> alternator dry. I submerge these components in my CJ5 on a regular basis,
> and they work fine.
>
> <afapowel...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:1177284691.199288.270800@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
> >I would like to know how the engine compartment is sealed so as to no
> > water in around the starter or Alt.,I know the old army jeeps were
> > like that but forgot how it was done.
> > thanks Frank- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't like to sound like this on here but somebody is full of crap.I
just had a starter yesterday I took apart after a week of usage and it
was loaded with mud and water mind you may not hurt everything but the
solenoid was the biggest problem wouldn't engage due to moisture
gettin in.Put on a new solenoid and was fixed.Are you people maybe
using a diff. kind of solenoid on these things because your average
one isn't goin to stand it.As to the Alt. part of the story the
brushes get hung up
> Why? Is water a problem?
>
> I don't know of any engine that is sealed enough to keep the starter and
> alternator dry. I submerge these components in my CJ5 on a regular basis,
> and they work fine.
>
> <afapowel...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:1177284691.199288.270800@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
> >I would like to know how the engine compartment is sealed so as to no
> > water in around the starter or Alt.,I know the old army jeeps were
> > like that but forgot how it was done.
> > thanks Frank- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't like to sound like this on here but somebody is full of crap.I
just had a starter yesterday I took apart after a week of usage and it
was loaded with mud and water mind you may not hurt everything but the
solenoid was the biggest problem wouldn't engage due to moisture
gettin in.Put on a new solenoid and was fixed.Are you people maybe
using a diff. kind of solenoid on these things because your average
one isn't goin to stand it.As to the Alt. part of the story the
brushes get hung up
05-04-2007, 09:53 AM
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: engine sealing
On Apr 22, 11:10 pm, "Jeff Strickland" <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Why? Is water a problem?
>
> I don't know of any engine that is sealed enough to keep the starter and
> alternator dry. I submerge these components in my CJ5 on a regular basis,
> and they work fine.
>
> <afapowel...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:1177284691.199288.270800@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
> >I would like to know how the engine compartment is sealed so as to no
> > water in around the starter or Alt.,I know the old army jeeps were
> > like that but forgot how it was done.
> > thanks Frank- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't like to sound like this on here but somebody is full of crap.I
just had a starter yesterday I took apart after a week of usage and it
was loaded with mud and water mind you may not hurt everything but the
solenoid was the biggest problem wouldn't engage due to moisture
gettin in.Put on a new solenoid and was fixed.Are you people maybe
using a diff. kind of solenoid on these things because your average
one isn't goin to stand it.As to the Alt. part of the story the
brushes get hung up
> Why? Is water a problem?
>
> I don't know of any engine that is sealed enough to keep the starter and
> alternator dry. I submerge these components in my CJ5 on a regular basis,
> and they work fine.
>
> <afapowel...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:1177284691.199288.270800@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
> >I would like to know how the engine compartment is sealed so as to no
> > water in around the starter or Alt.,I know the old army jeeps were
> > like that but forgot how it was done.
> > thanks Frank- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't like to sound like this on here but somebody is full of crap.I
just had a starter yesterday I took apart after a week of usage and it
was loaded with mud and water mind you may not hurt everything but the
solenoid was the biggest problem wouldn't engage due to moisture
gettin in.Put on a new solenoid and was fixed.Are you people maybe
using a diff. kind of solenoid on these things because your average
one isn't goin to stand it.As to the Alt. part of the story the
brushes get hung up
05-04-2007, 09:53 AM
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: engine sealing
On Apr 22, 11:10 pm, "Jeff Strickland" <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Why? Is water a problem?
>
> I don't know of any engine that is sealed enough to keep the starter and
> alternator dry. I submerge these components in my CJ5 on a regular basis,
> and they work fine.
>
> <afapowel...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:1177284691.199288.270800@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
> >I would like to know how the engine compartment is sealed so as to no
> > water in around the starter or Alt.,I know the old army jeeps were
> > like that but forgot how it was done.
> > thanks Frank- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't like to sound like this on here but somebody is full of crap.I
just had a starter yesterday I took apart after a week of usage and it
was loaded with mud and water mind you may not hurt everything but the
solenoid was the biggest problem wouldn't engage due to moisture
gettin in.Put on a new solenoid and was fixed.Are you people maybe
using a diff. kind of solenoid on these things because your average
one isn't goin to stand it.As to the Alt. part of the story the
brushes get hung up
> Why? Is water a problem?
>
> I don't know of any engine that is sealed enough to keep the starter and
> alternator dry. I submerge these components in my CJ5 on a regular basis,
> and they work fine.
>
> <afapowel...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:1177284691.199288.270800@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
> >I would like to know how the engine compartment is sealed so as to no
> > water in around the starter or Alt.,I know the old army jeeps were
> > like that but forgot how it was done.
> > thanks Frank- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't like to sound like this on here but somebody is full of crap.I
just had a starter yesterday I took apart after a week of usage and it
was loaded with mud and water mind you may not hurt everything but the
solenoid was the biggest problem wouldn't engage due to moisture
gettin in.Put on a new solenoid and was fixed.Are you people maybe
using a diff. kind of solenoid on these things because your average
one isn't goin to stand it.As to the Alt. part of the story the
brushes get hung up
05-04-2007, 09:53 AM
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: engine sealing
On Apr 22, 11:10 pm, "Jeff Strickland" <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Why? Is water a problem?
>
> I don't know of any engine that is sealed enough to keep the starter and
> alternator dry. I submerge these components in my CJ5 on a regular basis,
> and they work fine.
>
> <afapowel...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:1177284691.199288.270800@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
> >I would like to know how the engine compartment is sealed so as to no
> > water in around the starter or Alt.,I know the old army jeeps were
> > like that but forgot how it was done.
> > thanks Frank- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't like to sound like this on here but somebody is full of crap.I
just had a starter yesterday I took apart after a week of usage and it
was loaded with mud and water mind you may not hurt everything but the
solenoid was the biggest problem wouldn't engage due to moisture
gettin in.Put on a new solenoid and was fixed.Are you people maybe
using a diff. kind of solenoid on these things because your average
one isn't goin to stand it.As to the Alt. part of the story the
brushes get hung up
> Why? Is water a problem?
>
> I don't know of any engine that is sealed enough to keep the starter and
> alternator dry. I submerge these components in my CJ5 on a regular basis,
> and they work fine.
>
> <afapowel...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:1177284691.199288.270800@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
> >I would like to know how the engine compartment is sealed so as to no
> > water in around the starter or Alt.,I know the old army jeeps were
> > like that but forgot how it was done.
> > thanks Frank- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't like to sound like this on here but somebody is full of crap.I
just had a starter yesterday I took apart after a week of usage and it
was loaded with mud and water mind you may not hurt everything but the
solenoid was the biggest problem wouldn't engage due to moisture
gettin in.Put on a new solenoid and was fixed.Are you people maybe
using a diff. kind of solenoid on these things because your average
one isn't goin to stand it.As to the Alt. part of the story the
brushes get hung up
05-06-2007, 08:55 PM
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: engine sealing
On Apr 23, 12:27 pm, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> > "SnoMan" <a...@snoman.com> wrote in message
> >news:evbp23t94jk05cispapeqkf851q7gheo2m@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:10:53 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
> >> <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>> I don't know of any engine that is sealed enough to keep the starter and
> >>> alternator dry. I submerge these components in my CJ5 on a regular
> >>> basis,
> >>> and they work fine.
>
> >> The clock is ticking because each dunk shortens its life.
>
> > The clock is ticking very slowly. When I was driving my Jeep regularly,
> > mostly offroading, I took it swimming on several occasions and the
> > alternator is still going strong.
>
> > Your logic is flawed, and you haven't a clue about how to reply to the
> > person that is asking the questions.
>
> Yup, real slow. I have passed the 5 year warranty on both my starter
> and alternator and mine also goes swimming lots!
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
well lets put it this way if you were in this part of the country
which is Ontario Canada with a clay situation in the mud there is no
way in hell you would get away with what you are doing, the states
has to be alot diff. but come here and try that you won't last
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> > "SnoMan" <a...@snoman.com> wrote in message
> >news:evbp23t94jk05cispapeqkf851q7gheo2m@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:10:53 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
> >> <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>> I don't know of any engine that is sealed enough to keep the starter and
> >>> alternator dry. I submerge these components in my CJ5 on a regular
> >>> basis,
> >>> and they work fine.
>
> >> The clock is ticking because each dunk shortens its life.
>
> > The clock is ticking very slowly. When I was driving my Jeep regularly,
> > mostly offroading, I took it swimming on several occasions and the
> > alternator is still going strong.
>
> > Your logic is flawed, and you haven't a clue about how to reply to the
> > person that is asking the questions.
>
> Yup, real slow. I have passed the 5 year warranty on both my starter
> and alternator and mine also goes swimming lots!
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
well lets put it this way if you were in this part of the country
which is Ontario Canada with a clay situation in the mud there is no
way in hell you would get away with what you are doing, the states
has to be alot diff. but come here and try that you won't last
05-06-2007, 08:55 PM
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: engine sealing
On Apr 23, 12:27 pm, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> > "SnoMan" <a...@snoman.com> wrote in message
> >news:evbp23t94jk05cispapeqkf851q7gheo2m@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:10:53 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
> >> <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>> I don't know of any engine that is sealed enough to keep the starter and
> >>> alternator dry. I submerge these components in my CJ5 on a regular
> >>> basis,
> >>> and they work fine.
>
> >> The clock is ticking because each dunk shortens its life.
>
> > The clock is ticking very slowly. When I was driving my Jeep regularly,
> > mostly offroading, I took it swimming on several occasions and the
> > alternator is still going strong.
>
> > Your logic is flawed, and you haven't a clue about how to reply to the
> > person that is asking the questions.
>
> Yup, real slow. I have passed the 5 year warranty on both my starter
> and alternator and mine also goes swimming lots!
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
well lets put it this way if you were in this part of the country
which is Ontario Canada with a clay situation in the mud there is no
way in hell you would get away with what you are doing, the states
has to be alot diff. but come here and try that you won't last
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> > "SnoMan" <a...@snoman.com> wrote in message
> >news:evbp23t94jk05cispapeqkf851q7gheo2m@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:10:53 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
> >> <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>> I don't know of any engine that is sealed enough to keep the starter and
> >>> alternator dry. I submerge these components in my CJ5 on a regular
> >>> basis,
> >>> and they work fine.
>
> >> The clock is ticking because each dunk shortens its life.
>
> > The clock is ticking very slowly. When I was driving my Jeep regularly,
> > mostly offroading, I took it swimming on several occasions and the
> > alternator is still going strong.
>
> > Your logic is flawed, and you haven't a clue about how to reply to the
> > person that is asking the questions.
>
> Yup, real slow. I have passed the 5 year warranty on both my starter
> and alternator and mine also goes swimming lots!
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
well lets put it this way if you were in this part of the country
which is Ontario Canada with a clay situation in the mud there is no
way in hell you would get away with what you are doing, the states
has to be alot diff. but come here and try that you won't last
05-06-2007, 08:55 PM
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: engine sealing
On Apr 23, 12:27 pm, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> > "SnoMan" <a...@snoman.com> wrote in message
> >news:evbp23t94jk05cispapeqkf851q7gheo2m@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:10:53 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
> >> <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>> I don't know of any engine that is sealed enough to keep the starter and
> >>> alternator dry. I submerge these components in my CJ5 on a regular
> >>> basis,
> >>> and they work fine.
>
> >> The clock is ticking because each dunk shortens its life.
>
> > The clock is ticking very slowly. When I was driving my Jeep regularly,
> > mostly offroading, I took it swimming on several occasions and the
> > alternator is still going strong.
>
> > Your logic is flawed, and you haven't a clue about how to reply to the
> > person that is asking the questions.
>
> Yup, real slow. I have passed the 5 year warranty on both my starter
> and alternator and mine also goes swimming lots!
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
well lets put it this way if you were in this part of the country
which is Ontario Canada with a clay situation in the mud there is no
way in hell you would get away with what you are doing, the states
has to be alot diff. but come here and try that you won't last
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> > "SnoMan" <a...@snoman.com> wrote in message
> >news:evbp23t94jk05cispapeqkf851q7gheo2m@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:10:53 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
> >> <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>> I don't know of any engine that is sealed enough to keep the starter and
> >>> alternator dry. I submerge these components in my CJ5 on a regular
> >>> basis,
> >>> and they work fine.
>
> >> The clock is ticking because each dunk shortens its life.
>
> > The clock is ticking very slowly. When I was driving my Jeep regularly,
> > mostly offroading, I took it swimming on several occasions and the
> > alternator is still going strong.
>
> > Your logic is flawed, and you haven't a clue about how to reply to the
> > person that is asking the questions.
>
> Yup, real slow. I have passed the 5 year warranty on both my starter
> and alternator and mine also goes swimming lots!
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
well lets put it this way if you were in this part of the country
which is Ontario Canada with a clay situation in the mud there is no
way in hell you would get away with what you are doing, the states
has to be alot diff. but come here and try that you won't last
05-06-2007, 08:55 PM
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: engine sealing
On Apr 23, 12:27 pm, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> > "SnoMan" <a...@snoman.com> wrote in message
> >news:evbp23t94jk05cispapeqkf851q7gheo2m@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:10:53 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
> >> <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>> I don't know of any engine that is sealed enough to keep the starter and
> >>> alternator dry. I submerge these components in my CJ5 on a regular
> >>> basis,
> >>> and they work fine.
>
> >> The clock is ticking because each dunk shortens its life.
>
> > The clock is ticking very slowly. When I was driving my Jeep regularly,
> > mostly offroading, I took it swimming on several occasions and the
> > alternator is still going strong.
>
> > Your logic is flawed, and you haven't a clue about how to reply to the
> > person that is asking the questions.
>
> Yup, real slow. I have passed the 5 year warranty on both my starter
> and alternator and mine also goes swimming lots!
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
well lets put it this way if you were in this part of the country
which is Ontario Canada with a clay situation in the mud there is no
way in hell you would get away with what you are doing, the states
has to be alot diff. but come here and try that you won't last
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> > "SnoMan" <a...@snoman.com> wrote in message
> >news:evbp23t94jk05cispapeqkf851q7gheo2m@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:10:53 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
> >> <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>> I don't know of any engine that is sealed enough to keep the starter and
> >>> alternator dry. I submerge these components in my CJ5 on a regular
> >>> basis,
> >>> and they work fine.
>
> >> The clock is ticking because each dunk shortens its life.
>
> > The clock is ticking very slowly. When I was driving my Jeep regularly,
> > mostly offroading, I took it swimming on several occasions and the
> > alternator is still going strong.
>
> > Your logic is flawed, and you haven't a clue about how to reply to the
> > person that is asking the questions.
>
> Yup, real slow. I have passed the 5 year warranty on both my starter
> and alternator and mine also goes swimming lots!
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
well lets put it this way if you were in this part of the country
which is Ontario Canada with a clay situation in the mud there is no
way in hell you would get away with what you are doing, the states
has to be alot diff. but come here and try that you won't last
05-06-2007, 09:02 PM
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: engine sealing
<afapowell28@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:1178499336.666731.325180@y80g2000hsf.googlegr oups.com...
> On Apr 23, 12:27 pm, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>
>> > "SnoMan" <a...@snoman.com> wrote in message
>> >news:evbp23t94jk05cispapeqkf851q7gheo2m@4ax.com.. .
>> >> On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:10:53 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
>> >> <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> >>> I don't know of any engine that is sealed enough to keep the starter
>> >>> and
>> >>> alternator dry. I submerge these components in my CJ5 on a regular
>> >>> basis,
>> >>> and they work fine.
>>
>> >> The clock is ticking because each dunk shortens its life.
>>
>> > The clock is ticking very slowly. When I was driving my Jeep regularly,
>> > mostly offroading, I took it swimming on several occasions and the
>> > alternator is still going strong.
>>
>> > Your logic is flawed, and you haven't a clue about how to reply to the
>> > person that is asking the questions.
>>
>> Yup, real slow. I have passed the 5 year warranty on both my starter
>> and alternator and mine also goes swimming lots!
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)- Hide quoted
>> text -
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> well lets put it this way if you were in this part of the country
> which is Ontario Canada with a clay situation in the mud there is no
> way in hell you would get away with what you are doing, the states
> has to be alot diff. but come here and try that you won't last
>
Mike is already there.