MFM JOS

I replaced the badly leaking valve cover gasket on my 82 Scrambler this past
weekend. When I got the cover off, I was amazed at how much funk was cover
the top of the head and the inside of the cover. I scraped all the crap off
the cover, and picked out as much as I could from the top of the head. But
there was still a bunch in and under the rocker arms and everywhere else.
I'm considering an engine flush. Anyone have any opinions? How much risk
is there of the flush blowing seals in my just 120K mile engine (258)? Will
it work?

Thanks,
MFM

Earle Horton

I wondered for a long time why my second car, a 1964 Plymouth Valiant, would
only take 4 quarts at an oil change. Then I removed the oil pan and found
out...

In 1979 an experienced mechanic told me that this sort of thing is caused by
"lots of short trips without warming up the engine." We were dealing with a
Chevy V8 that had so much buildup around the rockers that one of the push
rods had gotten pushed to the side by the crud and was no longer doing its
intended function. Of course, this was a farm truck. You could have
scooped the stuff out from around the rocker arms with a finger and put it
on crackers. Yum!

If you think it looks bad around the rockers, what do you think the pan
looks like? My recomendation is to forget the flush, too risky, and remove
and replace the pan, cleaning it real good. After you put it back together
with new oil and a filter, make sure that you get the engine good and warm
every time you drive it, and change the oil and filter at 1,000 miles or so.
That way, you have some assurance that you have trapped most of the stuff
that is going to shake loose.

Earle

"MFM JOS" <dcompton@no.spam.nocc.net> wrote in message
news:_yCdnax8vbLXBBGiU-KYvw@comcast.com...
>
> I replaced the badly leaking valve cover gasket on my 82 Scrambler this
past
> weekend. When I got the cover off, I was amazed at how much funk was
cover
> the top of the head and the inside of the cover. I scraped all the crap
off
> the cover, and picked out as much as I could from the top of the head.
But
> there was still a bunch in and under the rocker arms and everywhere else.
> I'm considering an engine flush. Anyone have any opinions? How much risk
> is there of the flush blowing seals in my just 120K mile engine (258)?
Will
> it work?
>
> Thanks,
> MFM
>
>

Earle Horton

I wondered for a long time why my second car, a 1964 Plymouth Valiant, would
only take 4 quarts at an oil change. Then I removed the oil pan and found
out...

In 1979 an experienced mechanic told me that this sort of thing is caused by
"lots of short trips without warming up the engine." We were dealing with a
Chevy V8 that had so much buildup around the rockers that one of the push
rods had gotten pushed to the side by the crud and was no longer doing its
intended function. Of course, this was a farm truck. You could have
scooped the stuff out from around the rocker arms with a finger and put it
on crackers. Yum!

If you think it looks bad around the rockers, what do you think the pan
looks like? My recomendation is to forget the flush, too risky, and remove
and replace the pan, cleaning it real good. After you put it back together
with new oil and a filter, make sure that you get the engine good and warm
every time you drive it, and change the oil and filter at 1,000 miles or so.
That way, you have some assurance that you have trapped most of the stuff
that is going to shake loose.

Earle

"MFM JOS" <dcompton@no.spam.nocc.net> wrote in message
news:_yCdnax8vbLXBBGiU-KYvw@comcast.com...
>
> I replaced the badly leaking valve cover gasket on my 82 Scrambler this
past
> weekend. When I got the cover off, I was amazed at how much funk was
cover
> the top of the head and the inside of the cover. I scraped all the crap
off
> the cover, and picked out as much as I could from the top of the head.
But
> there was still a bunch in and under the rocker arms and everywhere else.
> I'm considering an engine flush. Anyone have any opinions? How much risk
> is there of the flush blowing seals in my just 120K mile engine (258)?
Will
> it work?
>
> Thanks,
> MFM
>
>

Earle Horton

I wondered for a long time why my second car, a 1964 Plymouth Valiant, would
only take 4 quarts at an oil change. Then I removed the oil pan and found
out...

In 1979 an experienced mechanic told me that this sort of thing is caused by
"lots of short trips without warming up the engine." We were dealing with a
Chevy V8 that had so much buildup around the rockers that one of the push
rods had gotten pushed to the side by the crud and was no longer doing its
intended function. Of course, this was a farm truck. You could have
scooped the stuff out from around the rocker arms with a finger and put it
on crackers. Yum!

If you think it looks bad around the rockers, what do you think the pan
looks like? My recomendation is to forget the flush, too risky, and remove
and replace the pan, cleaning it real good. After you put it back together
with new oil and a filter, make sure that you get the engine good and warm
every time you drive it, and change the oil and filter at 1,000 miles or so.
That way, you have some assurance that you have trapped most of the stuff
that is going to shake loose.

Earle

"MFM JOS" <dcompton@no.spam.nocc.net> wrote in message
news:_yCdnax8vbLXBBGiU-KYvw@comcast.com...
>
> I replaced the badly leaking valve cover gasket on my 82 Scrambler this
past
> weekend. When I got the cover off, I was amazed at how much funk was
cover
> the top of the head and the inside of the cover. I scraped all the crap
off
> the cover, and picked out as much as I could from the top of the head.
But
> there was still a bunch in and under the rocker arms and everywhere else.
> I'm considering an engine flush. Anyone have any opinions? How much risk
> is there of the flush blowing seals in my just 120K mile engine (258)?
Will
> it work?
>
> Thanks,
> MFM
>
>

Simon Juncal

MFM JOS wrote:
> I replaced the badly leaking valve cover gasket on my 82 Scrambler this past
> weekend. When I got the cover off, I was amazed at how much funk was cover
> the top of the head and the inside of the cover. I scraped all the crap off
> the cover, and picked out as much as I could from the top of the head. But
> there was still a bunch in and under the rocker arms and everywhere else.
> I'm considering an engine flush. Anyone have any opinions? How much risk
> is there of the flush blowing seals in my just 120K mile engine (258)? Will
> it work?

If you don't have any leaks currently then find a place that has a
Bilstein flush machine. It uses a couple cycles, using pressure and
heated chemicals and a big filter, and a final flush which completely
cleans out the bottom half, oil passages and anywhere oil goes in your
engine. It connects to the oil drain, and filter and runs it's chemicals
through just like normal oil (make sure they put a new filter in the
machine before they start). Also the science behind "high mileage" oils
is valid so you might consider putting 5 quarts of one of those in after
the flush to get some esters to the freshly cleaned seals. I did this
just to be on the safe side.

I got my Mustang done about two months ago and it did a fine job. No
leaks before or after, and I've switched to Mobil 1 since the flush.
Synthetics have a rep for finding any potential leaks and getting
through them where Dino oil sludge's (built up around seals) would have
kept Dino oil from leaking.

Do a google search on bilstein in the rec.auto.tech NG there're a lot of
knowledgeable people, mechanics, etc. who recommend it as a non-snake
oil engine flush... expect to pay between 70 to 100 bucks for the flush.
Also if the buildup is that bad you might consider asking them to run
the machine twice and use two filters for a little added cost. It's a
hell of a lot less expensive than a rebuild and hot tanking of the engine.

Simon Juncal

MFM JOS wrote:
> I replaced the badly leaking valve cover gasket on my 82 Scrambler this past
> weekend. When I got the cover off, I was amazed at how much funk was cover
> the top of the head and the inside of the cover. I scraped all the crap off
> the cover, and picked out as much as I could from the top of the head. But
> there was still a bunch in and under the rocker arms and everywhere else.
> I'm considering an engine flush. Anyone have any opinions? How much risk
> is there of the flush blowing seals in my just 120K mile engine (258)? Will
> it work?

If you don't have any leaks currently then find a place that has a
Bilstein flush machine. It uses a couple cycles, using pressure and
heated chemicals and a big filter, and a final flush which completely
cleans out the bottom half, oil passages and anywhere oil goes in your
engine. It connects to the oil drain, and filter and runs it's chemicals
through just like normal oil (make sure they put a new filter in the
machine before they start). Also the science behind "high mileage" oils
is valid so you might consider putting 5 quarts of one of those in after
the flush to get some esters to the freshly cleaned seals. I did this
just to be on the safe side.

I got my Mustang done about two months ago and it did a fine job. No
leaks before or after, and I've switched to Mobil 1 since the flush.
Synthetics have a rep for finding any potential leaks and getting
through them where Dino oil sludge's (built up around seals) would have
kept Dino oil from leaking.

Do a google search on bilstein in the rec.auto.tech NG there're a lot of
knowledgeable people, mechanics, etc. who recommend it as a non-snake
oil engine flush... expect to pay between 70 to 100 bucks for the flush.
Also if the buildup is that bad you might consider asking them to run
the machine twice and use two filters for a little added cost. It's a
hell of a lot less expensive than a rebuild and hot tanking of the engine.

Simon Juncal

MFM JOS wrote:
> I replaced the badly leaking valve cover gasket on my 82 Scrambler this past
> weekend. When I got the cover off, I was amazed at how much funk was cover
> the top of the head and the inside of the cover. I scraped all the crap off
> the cover, and picked out as much as I could from the top of the head. But
> there was still a bunch in and under the rocker arms and everywhere else.
> I'm considering an engine flush. Anyone have any opinions? How much risk
> is there of the flush blowing seals in my just 120K mile engine (258)? Will
> it work?

If you don't have any leaks currently then find a place that has a
Bilstein flush machine. It uses a couple cycles, using pressure and
heated chemicals and a big filter, and a final flush which completely
cleans out the bottom half, oil passages and anywhere oil goes in your
engine. It connects to the oil drain, and filter and runs it's chemicals
through just like normal oil (make sure they put a new filter in the
machine before they start). Also the science behind "high mileage" oils
is valid so you might consider putting 5 quarts of one of those in after
the flush to get some esters to the freshly cleaned seals. I did this
just to be on the safe side.

I got my Mustang done about two months ago and it did a fine job. No
leaks before or after, and I've switched to Mobil 1 since the flush.
Synthetics have a rep for finding any potential leaks and getting
through them where Dino oil sludge's (built up around seals) would have
kept Dino oil from leaking.

Do a google search on bilstein in the rec.auto.tech NG there're a lot of
knowledgeable people, mechanics, etc. who recommend it as a non-snake
oil engine flush... expect to pay between 70 to 100 bucks for the flush.
Also if the buildup is that bad you might consider asking them to run
the machine twice and use two filters for a little added cost. It's a
hell of a lot less expensive than a rebuild and hot tanking of the engine.

Rich Pierson

Normally when doing that kind of clean up I work with a plastic scraper
in one hand and a shop vac in the other. I had an 82 S10 with the 2.8L,
used it as a service vehicle for my territory from 82 to about 90 then as
a commuter vehicel from the poconos in pa to bellcore in piscatway nj
about 188mi round trip or so daily.
I changed the oil every week or two as I was doing 2000-2900 miles a week
sometimes. My territory covered from grumman aircraft in calverton LI to
Pittsburg to syracuse and albany NY down to below atlantic city. At
around 640,000mi I decided to do something about that annoying oil leak
from the back of the intake manifold so I pulled the covers and manifold
apart, I scraped 6lbs of sludge out, resealed it and put it back
together. Next day on my way into NJ I lost oil pressure on interstate
78, took out two mains and had to replace the crank. I missed some sludge
and it worked its way into the oil pan and blocked the pickup. The only
oil I ever ran in it was Valvoline, CamII and Sunoco.
My 98XJ has 183,000mi on it and the inside of the valve cover is as clean
as new, at around 5,000mi I switched to Mobil-1 oil and mobil or K&N
filters [with an occasional mopar, I had a coupon :-) ] and have never
put anything else in it and never will. The wifes Oldsmobile is the same
way, it recently had to have a new engine put in due to a blown
headgasket from warped heads resulting in an overheat that wiped the
motor. When the valve covers came off that engine was immaculate, pan was
clean and it looked new.
The flush is a good idea but keep an eye on the dipstick afterwards, that
cleaner is still working for a while as they don't get it all back out,
some soaks into the sludge. If you can't read the hash marks on the
dipstick replace the filter pronto. For a long term more gentile approach
either run 100% synthetic or make your own mix of 50/50 synthetic and
dino oil. It will clean it up but will take longer.
As for crud in the valve cover area remember that that is a low pressure
area same as the oil pan, result is that crud tends to come to rest in
those areas and hardens up into sludge so sometimes removing and manually
cleaning is the only solution when it's really bad.

That S10 was still running when I sold it at 680,000mi and I watched the
kid that bought it drive it for at least another year before he either
moved or it disentigrated in to iron oxides, the last two times I saw it
it looked like someone had shot it with a rust gun...

Every once in a while Walmart has these 5 quart Mobil-1 containers on
sale for $18, I usually buy 12, 6 for me and 6 for the wifes Olds plus a
12 quarts loose. Be nice if they sold them in 6 quarts just for jeeps...

Simon Juncal <sjuncal@erols.com> wrote in
news:3F8D03CD.3010309@erols.com:

>
>
> MFM JOS wrote:
>> I replaced the badly leaking valve cover gasket on my 82 Scrambler
>> this past weekend. When I got the cover off, I was amazed at how
>> much funk was cover the top of the head and the inside of the cover.
>> I scraped all the crap off the cover, and picked out as much as I
>> could from the top of the head. But there was still a bunch in and
>> under the rocker arms and everywhere else. I'm considering an engine
>> flush. Anyone have any opinions? How much risk is there of the
>> flush blowing seals in my just 120K mile engine (258)? Will it work?
>
> If you don't have any leaks currently then find a place that has a
> Bilstein flush machine. It uses a couple cycles, using pressure and
> heated chemicals and a big filter, and a final flush which completely
> cleans out the bottom half, oil passages and anywhere oil goes in your
> engine. It connects to the oil drain, and filter and runs it's
> chemicals through just like normal oil (make sure they put a new
> filter in the machine before they start). Also the science behind
> "high mileage" oils is valid so you might consider putting 5 quarts of
> one of those in after the flush to get some esters to the freshly
> cleaned seals. I did this just to be on the safe side.
>
> I got my Mustang done about two months ago and it did a fine job. No
> leaks before or after, and I've switched to Mobil 1 since the flush.
> Synthetics have a rep for finding any potential leaks and getting
> through them where Dino oil sludge's (built up around seals) would
> have kept Dino oil from leaking.
>
> Do a google search on bilstein in the rec.auto.tech NG there're a lot
> of knowledgeable people, mechanics, etc. who recommend it as a
> non-snake oil engine flush... expect to pay between 70 to 100 bucks
> for the flush. Also if the buildup is that bad you might consider
> asking them to run the machine twice and use two filters for a little
> added cost. It's a hell of a lot less expensive than a rebuild and hot
> tanking of the engine.
>
>

Rich Pierson

Normally when doing that kind of clean up I work with a plastic scraper
in one hand and a shop vac in the other. I had an 82 S10 with the 2.8L,
used it as a service vehicle for my territory from 82 to about 90 then as
a commuter vehicel from the poconos in pa to bellcore in piscatway nj
about 188mi round trip or so daily.
I changed the oil every week or two as I was doing 2000-2900 miles a week
sometimes. My territory covered from grumman aircraft in calverton LI to
Pittsburg to syracuse and albany NY down to below atlantic city. At
around 640,000mi I decided to do something about that annoying oil leak
from the back of the intake manifold so I pulled the covers and manifold
apart, I scraped 6lbs of sludge out, resealed it and put it back
together. Next day on my way into NJ I lost oil pressure on interstate
78, took out two mains and had to replace the crank. I missed some sludge
and it worked its way into the oil pan and blocked the pickup. The only
oil I ever ran in it was Valvoline, CamII and Sunoco.
My 98XJ has 183,000mi on it and the inside of the valve cover is as clean
as new, at around 5,000mi I switched to Mobil-1 oil and mobil or K&N
filters [with an occasional mopar, I had a coupon :-) ] and have never
put anything else in it and never will. The wifes Oldsmobile is the same
way, it recently had to have a new engine put in due to a blown
headgasket from warped heads resulting in an overheat that wiped the
motor. When the valve covers came off that engine was immaculate, pan was
clean and it looked new.
The flush is a good idea but keep an eye on the dipstick afterwards, that
cleaner is still working for a while as they don't get it all back out,
some soaks into the sludge. If you can't read the hash marks on the
dipstick replace the filter pronto. For a long term more gentile approach
either run 100% synthetic or make your own mix of 50/50 synthetic and
dino oil. It will clean it up but will take longer.
As for crud in the valve cover area remember that that is a low pressure
area same as the oil pan, result is that crud tends to come to rest in
those areas and hardens up into sludge so sometimes removing and manually
cleaning is the only solution when it's really bad.

That S10 was still running when I sold it at 680,000mi and I watched the
kid that bought it drive it for at least another year before he either
moved or it disentigrated in to iron oxides, the last two times I saw it
it looked like someone had shot it with a rust gun...

Every once in a while Walmart has these 5 quart Mobil-1 containers on
sale for $18, I usually buy 12, 6 for me and 6 for the wifes Olds plus a
12 quarts loose. Be nice if they sold them in 6 quarts just for jeeps...

Simon Juncal <sjuncal@erols.com> wrote in
news:3F8D03CD.3010309@erols.com:

>
>
> MFM JOS wrote:
>> I replaced the badly leaking valve cover gasket on my 82 Scrambler
>> this past weekend. When I got the cover off, I was amazed at how
>> much funk was cover the top of the head and the inside of the cover.
>> I scraped all the crap off the cover, and picked out as much as I
>> could from the top of the head. But there was still a bunch in and
>> under the rocker arms and everywhere else. I'm considering an engine
>> flush. Anyone have any opinions? How much risk is there of the
>> flush blowing seals in my just 120K mile engine (258)? Will it work?
>
> If you don't have any leaks currently then find a place that has a
> Bilstein flush machine. It uses a couple cycles, using pressure and
> heated chemicals and a big filter, and a final flush which completely
> cleans out the bottom half, oil passages and anywhere oil goes in your
> engine. It connects to the oil drain, and filter and runs it's
> chemicals through just like normal oil (make sure they put a new
> filter in the machine before they start). Also the science behind
> "high mileage" oils is valid so you might consider putting 5 quarts of
> one of those in after the flush to get some esters to the freshly
> cleaned seals. I did this just to be on the safe side.
>
> I got my Mustang done about two months ago and it did a fine job. No
> leaks before or after, and I've switched to Mobil 1 since the flush.
> Synthetics have a rep for finding any potential leaks and getting
> through them where Dino oil sludge's (built up around seals) would
> have kept Dino oil from leaking.
>
> Do a google search on bilstein in the rec.auto.tech NG there're a lot
> of knowledgeable people, mechanics, etc. who recommend it as a
> non-snake oil engine flush... expect to pay between 70 to 100 bucks
> for the flush. Also if the buildup is that bad you might consider
> asking them to run the machine twice and use two filters for a little
> added cost. It's a hell of a lot less expensive than a rebuild and hot
> tanking of the engine.
>
>

Rich Pierson

Normally when doing that kind of clean up I work with a plastic scraper
in one hand and a shop vac in the other. I had an 82 S10 with the 2.8L,
used it as a service vehicle for my territory from 82 to about 90 then as
a commuter vehicel from the poconos in pa to bellcore in piscatway nj
about 188mi round trip or so daily.
I changed the oil every week or two as I was doing 2000-2900 miles a week
sometimes. My territory covered from grumman aircraft in calverton LI to
Pittsburg to syracuse and albany NY down to below atlantic city. At
around 640,000mi I decided to do something about that annoying oil leak
from the back of the intake manifold so I pulled the covers and manifold
apart, I scraped 6lbs of sludge out, resealed it and put it back
together. Next day on my way into NJ I lost oil pressure on interstate
78, took out two mains and had to replace the crank. I missed some sludge
and it worked its way into the oil pan and blocked the pickup. The only
oil I ever ran in it was Valvoline, CamII and Sunoco.
My 98XJ has 183,000mi on it and the inside of the valve cover is as clean
as new, at around 5,000mi I switched to Mobil-1 oil and mobil or K&N
filters [with an occasional mopar, I had a coupon :-) ] and have never
put anything else in it and never will. The wifes Oldsmobile is the same
way, it recently had to have a new engine put in due to a blown
headgasket from warped heads resulting in an overheat that wiped the
motor. When the valve covers came off that engine was immaculate, pan was
clean and it looked new.
The flush is a good idea but keep an eye on the dipstick afterwards, that
cleaner is still working for a while as they don't get it all back out,
some soaks into the sludge. If you can't read the hash marks on the
dipstick replace the filter pronto. For a long term more gentile approach
either run 100% synthetic or make your own mix of 50/50 synthetic and
dino oil. It will clean it up but will take longer.
As for crud in the valve cover area remember that that is a low pressure
area same as the oil pan, result is that crud tends to come to rest in
those areas and hardens up into sludge so sometimes removing and manually
cleaning is the only solution when it's really bad.

That S10 was still running when I sold it at 680,000mi and I watched the
kid that bought it drive it for at least another year before he either
moved or it disentigrated in to iron oxides, the last two times I saw it
it looked like someone had shot it with a rust gun...

Every once in a while Walmart has these 5 quart Mobil-1 containers on
sale for $18, I usually buy 12, 6 for me and 6 for the wifes Olds plus a
12 quarts loose. Be nice if they sold them in 6 quarts just for jeeps...

Simon Juncal <sjuncal@erols.com> wrote in
news:3F8D03CD.3010309@erols.com:

>
>
> MFM JOS wrote:
>> I replaced the badly leaking valve cover gasket on my 82 Scrambler
>> this past weekend. When I got the cover off, I was amazed at how
>> much funk was cover the top of the head and the inside of the cover.
>> I scraped all the crap off the cover, and picked out as much as I
>> could from the top of the head. But there was still a bunch in and
>> under the rocker arms and everywhere else. I'm considering an engine
>> flush. Anyone have any opinions? How much risk is there of the
>> flush blowing seals in my just 120K mile engine (258)? Will it work?
>
> If you don't have any leaks currently then find a place that has a
> Bilstein flush machine. It uses a couple cycles, using pressure and
> heated chemicals and a big filter, and a final flush which completely
> cleans out the bottom half, oil passages and anywhere oil goes in your
> engine. It connects to the oil drain, and filter and runs it's
> chemicals through just like normal oil (make sure they put a new
> filter in the machine before they start). Also the science behind
> "high mileage" oils is valid so you might consider putting 5 quarts of
> one of those in after the flush to get some esters to the freshly
> cleaned seals. I did this just to be on the safe side.
>
> I got my Mustang done about two months ago and it did a fine job. No
> leaks before or after, and I've switched to Mobil 1 since the flush.
> Synthetics have a rep for finding any potential leaks and getting
> through them where Dino oil sludge's (built up around seals) would
> have kept Dino oil from leaking.
>
> Do a google search on bilstein in the rec.auto.tech NG there're a lot
> of knowledgeable people, mechanics, etc. who recommend it as a
> non-snake oil engine flush... expect to pay between 70 to 100 bucks
> for the flush. Also if the buildup is that bad you might consider
> asking them to run the machine twice and use two filters for a little
> added cost. It's a hell of a lot less expensive than a rebuild and hot
> tanking of the engine.
>
>