c

"Cal Wheeler" <cal@whee.ler> wrote in message
news:bjh2l7$het$0@pita.alt.net...
> kevin wrote:
>
> > DougW wrote:
> >
> >> kevin wrote:
> >>
> >>> Has anyone tried painting a jeep with one of the wagner airless spray
> >>> guns. I would be using lusterless OD paint.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Those guns are made for spraying housepaint. Now if your using Glidden
> >> to paint your jeep it probably would work.
> >>
> >> (in other words, the tip is wrong, automotive paint is thinner than
> >> house paint you would wind up hosing your jeep with paint)
> >>
> > Thanks. Guess I need to rent a compressor and HVLP gun.
> >
>
> IMHO, you should _really_ practice on something else besides your Jeep
> first. Even with the right equipment, you've still got to get the right
> amount of prep work, a feel for how much to thin the paint for spraying,
> how to clean the gun between batches, and the best methods and combos of
> pressure, flow, and spray technique for the best finish.
>
> I just did my own Herculiner on my YJ interior, and I know I didn't do
> as good a job as a seasoned pro would do. But that was the interior, and
> I didn't care too much how it looked. Dark and bumpy, so what! I
> wouldn't try tackling painting the exterior if I was a novice though,
> and expect beautiful results.
>

This is very true. I should have pointed that out in my post about renting
the equipment. I painted my truck which was my first time painting a
vehicle. I had a friend get me set up and then he ran out of the garage due
to the sever reactions he has to isocyanides. I feel that painting was
actually very easy. All of the prep work is, to me, what makes the paint
job. The most critical thing about spraying with an HVLP gun is the air
pressure. If the paint looks dry as soon as it hits the panel, this is too
much air pressure. I believe I sprayed at about 18PSI. I used PPG base/clear
paint which may not matter, but I have been told that certain types of
paints are easier to spray than others which makes sense to me. If you want
to see the truck (not a Jeep, but at least I used a Chrysler color :-)) you
can see it here: http://tinyurl.com/mlf8

I did my practicing when I painted inside the cab and also on an old hood.
The paint actually went on really easy. I had tried to paint while just
messing around a few years ago, and it was much more difficult. I don't know
if the difference was the gun or the paint, but both were different in the
first attempt. My paint is by no means perfect on this truck, but I do get a
lot of compliments about it. As far as mixing the paint and chemicals, I
just followed the instructions.

I'm no expert on the subject, but here are some important pointers:

Try to spray when it is 60-70 degrees wherever you are painting.
If it is humid (over 70%) there's a good chance the paint will appear cloudy
if you spray it.
If there is one single bug (fly, etc.) in your paint area, it WILL land
right in the middle of the hood just to **** you off.
Make absolutely sure that your Jeep is free of dust when you spray or you'll
have that nice non-skid look.
Make sure the compressor is free of oil and water in the tank and lines.
Remember that a paint job is only as good as the prep work that is
underneath it.
It's a good idea to let the primer "cure" for about a week or so to allow
all of the solvents to escape.
Read as much as you can about painting a vehicle. Google is your friend.
If you are painting the vehicle disassembled, make sure everything fits
together BEFORE you paint it.

Doug, I commend you for trying to do this yourself. There is no way we can
learn some things without doing them. Will your paint job be show quality?
Probably not. But IMO you have done something to better knowledge, and the
next time you do this, you'll be that much better at it.

Sorry for the long post.
Chris

JeepTJ

A friend of mine shot paint in his garage (with 1 rented exhaust fan out the
side door), and sprayed the garage floor with water to keep the dust down.
Did a decent job!


"Cal Wheeler" <cal@whee.ler> wrote in message
news:bjh7f9$pjl$0@pita.alt.net...
> c wrote:
> > "Cal Wheeler" <cal@whee.ler> wrote in message
> > news:bjh2l7$het$0@pita.alt.net...
> >
> >>kevin wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>DougW wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>kevin wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Has anyone tried painting a jeep with one of the wagner airless spray
> >>>>>guns. I would be using lusterless OD paint.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Those guns are made for spraying housepaint. Now if your using
Glidden
> >>>>to paint your jeep it probably would work.
> >>>>
> >>>>(in other words, the tip is wrong, automotive paint is thinner than
> >>>>house paint you would wind up hosing your jeep with paint)
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Thanks. Guess I need to rent a compressor and HVLP gun.
> >>>
> >>
> >>IMHO, you should _really_ practice on something else besides your Jeep
> >>first. Even with the right equipment, you've still got to get the right
> >>amount of prep work, a feel for how much to thin the paint for spraying,
> >>how to clean the gun between batches, and the best methods and combos of
> >>pressure, flow, and spray technique for the best finish.
> >>
> >>I just did my own Herculiner on my YJ interior, and I know I didn't do
> >>as good a job as a seasoned pro would do. But that was the interior, and
> >>I didn't care too much how it looked. Dark and bumpy, so what! I
> >>wouldn't try tackling painting the exterior if I was a novice though,
> >>and expect beautiful results.
> >>
> >
> >
> > This is very true. I should have pointed that out in my post about
renting
> > the equipment. I painted my truck which was my first time painting a
> > vehicle. I had a friend get me set up and then he ran out of the garage
due
> > to the sever reactions he has to isocyanides. I feel that painting was
> > actually very easy. All of the prep work is, to me, what makes the paint
> > job. The most critical thing about spraying with an HVLP gun is the air
> > pressure. If the paint looks dry as soon as it hits the panel, this is
too
> > much air pressure. I believe I sprayed at about 18PSI. I used PPG
base/clear
> > paint which may not matter, but I have been told that certain types of
> > paints are easier to spray than others which makes sense to me. If you
want
> > to see the truck (not a Jeep, but at least I used a Chrysler color :-))
you
> > can see it here: http://tinyurl.com/mlf8
>
> SWEET! Nice finish there!
> >
> > I did my practicing when I painted inside the cab and also on an old
hood.
> > The paint actually went on really easy. I had tried to paint while just
> > messing around a few years ago, and it was much more difficult. I don't
know
> > if the difference was the gun or the paint, but both were different in
the
> > first attempt. My paint is by no means perfect on this truck, but I do
get a
> > lot of compliments about it. As far as mixing the paint and chemicals, I
> > just followed the instructions.
> >
> > I'm no expert on the subject, but here are some important pointers:
> >
> > Try to spray when it is 60-70 degrees wherever you are painting.
> > If it is humid (over 70%) there's a good chance the paint will appear
cloudy
> > if you spray it.
> > If there is one single bug (fly, etc.) in your paint area, it WILL land
> > right in the middle of the hood just to **** you off.
> > Make absolutely sure that your Jeep is free of dust when you spray or
you'll
> > have that nice non-skid look.
> > Make sure the compressor is free of oil and water in the tank and lines.
> > Remember that a paint job is only as good as the prep work that is
> > underneath it.
> > It's a good idea to let the primer "cure" for about a week or so to
allow
> > all of the solvents to escape.
> > Read as much as you can about painting a vehicle. Google is your friend.
> > If you are painting the vehicle disassembled, make sure everything fits
> > together BEFORE you paint it.
> >
> > Doug, I commend you for trying to do this yourself. There is no way we
can
> > learn some things without doing them. Will your paint job be show
quality?
> > Probably not. But IMO you have done something to better knowledge, and
the
> > next time you do this, you'll be that much better at it.
>
> It's kevin who wants to do the painting; I think you have a number of
> good points.
>
> The other thing is, WHERE does the painting get done? Those paint shops
> have big, filtered, AQMD-approved spray booths for a reason. Make sure
> you set up controlled ventilation, and that it isn't where neighbors
> might complain and shut down your operation.
>
> DON'T do it in an enclosed garage where your gas-fired water heater is,
> or you're looking at some real danger.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

JeepTJ

A friend of mine shot paint in his garage (with 1 rented exhaust fan out the
side door), and sprayed the garage floor with water to keep the dust down.
Did a decent job!


"Cal Wheeler" <cal@whee.ler> wrote in message
news:bjh7f9$pjl$0@pita.alt.net...
> c wrote:
> > "Cal Wheeler" <cal@whee.ler> wrote in message
> > news:bjh2l7$het$0@pita.alt.net...
> >
> >>kevin wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>DougW wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>kevin wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Has anyone tried painting a jeep with one of the wagner airless spray
> >>>>>guns. I would be using lusterless OD paint.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Those guns are made for spraying housepaint. Now if your using
Glidden
> >>>>to paint your jeep it probably would work.
> >>>>
> >>>>(in other words, the tip is wrong, automotive paint is thinner than
> >>>>house paint you would wind up hosing your jeep with paint)
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Thanks. Guess I need to rent a compressor and HVLP gun.
> >>>
> >>
> >>IMHO, you should _really_ practice on something else besides your Jeep
> >>first. Even with the right equipment, you've still got to get the right
> >>amount of prep work, a feel for how much to thin the paint for spraying,
> >>how to clean the gun between batches, and the best methods and combos of
> >>pressure, flow, and spray technique for the best finish.
> >>
> >>I just did my own Herculiner on my YJ interior, and I know I didn't do
> >>as good a job as a seasoned pro would do. But that was the interior, and
> >>I didn't care too much how it looked. Dark and bumpy, so what! I
> >>wouldn't try tackling painting the exterior if I was a novice though,
> >>and expect beautiful results.
> >>
> >
> >
> > This is very true. I should have pointed that out in my post about
renting
> > the equipment. I painted my truck which was my first time painting a
> > vehicle. I had a friend get me set up and then he ran out of the garage
due
> > to the sever reactions he has to isocyanides. I feel that painting was
> > actually very easy. All of the prep work is, to me, what makes the paint
> > job. The most critical thing about spraying with an HVLP gun is the air
> > pressure. If the paint looks dry as soon as it hits the panel, this is
too
> > much air pressure. I believe I sprayed at about 18PSI. I used PPG
base/clear
> > paint which may not matter, but I have been told that certain types of
> > paints are easier to spray than others which makes sense to me. If you
want
> > to see the truck (not a Jeep, but at least I used a Chrysler color :-))
you
> > can see it here: http://tinyurl.com/mlf8
>
> SWEET! Nice finish there!
> >
> > I did my practicing when I painted inside the cab and also on an old
hood.
> > The paint actually went on really easy. I had tried to paint while just
> > messing around a few years ago, and it was much more difficult. I don't
know
> > if the difference was the gun or the paint, but both were different in
the
> > first attempt. My paint is by no means perfect on this truck, but I do
get a
> > lot of compliments about it. As far as mixing the paint and chemicals, I
> > just followed the instructions.
> >
> > I'm no expert on the subject, but here are some important pointers:
> >
> > Try to spray when it is 60-70 degrees wherever you are painting.
> > If it is humid (over 70%) there's a good chance the paint will appear
cloudy
> > if you spray it.
> > If there is one single bug (fly, etc.) in your paint area, it WILL land
> > right in the middle of the hood just to **** you off.
> > Make absolutely sure that your Jeep is free of dust when you spray or
you'll
> > have that nice non-skid look.
> > Make sure the compressor is free of oil and water in the tank and lines.
> > Remember that a paint job is only as good as the prep work that is
> > underneath it.
> > It's a good idea to let the primer "cure" for about a week or so to
allow
> > all of the solvents to escape.
> > Read as much as you can about painting a vehicle. Google is your friend.
> > If you are painting the vehicle disassembled, make sure everything fits
> > together BEFORE you paint it.
> >
> > Doug, I commend you for trying to do this yourself. There is no way we
can
> > learn some things without doing them. Will your paint job be show
quality?
> > Probably not. But IMO you have done something to better knowledge, and
the
> > next time you do this, you'll be that much better at it.
>
> It's kevin who wants to do the painting; I think you have a number of
> good points.
>
> The other thing is, WHERE does the painting get done? Those paint shops
> have big, filtered, AQMD-approved spray booths for a reason. Make sure
> you set up controlled ventilation, and that it isn't where neighbors
> might complain and shut down your operation.
>
> DON'T do it in an enclosed garage where your gas-fired water heater is,
> or you're looking at some real danger.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Grumman-581

"RichH" wrote ...
> Buy the VERY best respirator you can afford
> that has the **NIOSH** rating for vapor
> absorbtion of the particular parint that you are
> shooting

When I'm working with hazardous solvents and such, I use a fresh air supply
mask... If there is a positive air pressure in the mask, the fumes can't get
in and you are safe... I found a web page where someone had a homemade one
from a paper grocery sack with a clear plastic wrap window taped into it for
viewing... The air supply was from the exhaust of a shop vac (removed from
the container so that you wouldn't be breathing what you might have
previously vacuumed up) adapted to fit a garden hose... The garden hose went
under your belt and was attached there so that you could freely move around
without having to have one hand holding onto the hose... The end of the
garden hose was taped inside the back of the hood that you made out of the
paper grocery sack... The advantage of this type of hood is that it is cheap
and keeps any overspray out of your hair and off your glasses... Since this
first iteration of the design, I've bought an Israeli gas mask that uses a
single cartridge that screws into the front of the mask and I have adapted
it for using the garden hose delivered air supply... Some of these chemicals
are really nasty, it's better to play it safe... The fact that you can do
this for cheaper than a really good quality respirator is also a plus...

Grumman-581

"RichH" wrote ...
> Buy the VERY best respirator you can afford
> that has the **NIOSH** rating for vapor
> absorbtion of the particular parint that you are
> shooting

When I'm working with hazardous solvents and such, I use a fresh air supply
mask... If there is a positive air pressure in the mask, the fumes can't get
in and you are safe... I found a web page where someone had a homemade one
from a paper grocery sack with a clear plastic wrap window taped into it for
viewing... The air supply was from the exhaust of a shop vac (removed from
the container so that you wouldn't be breathing what you might have
previously vacuumed up) adapted to fit a garden hose... The garden hose went
under your belt and was attached there so that you could freely move around
without having to have one hand holding onto the hose... The end of the
garden hose was taped inside the back of the hood that you made out of the
paper grocery sack... The advantage of this type of hood is that it is cheap
and keeps any overspray out of your hair and off your glasses... Since this
first iteration of the design, I've bought an Israeli gas mask that uses a
single cartridge that screws into the front of the mask and I have adapted
it for using the garden hose delivered air supply... Some of these chemicals
are really nasty, it's better to play it safe... The fact that you can do
this for cheaper than a really good quality respirator is also a plus...

RichH

Vie used self contained breathing apparatus, gizmos, etc. .... all so
hot inside the face plate that I'd wind up with a half inch of sweat
sloshing around.

Problem with 'fresh air' devices is that they MUST have proper
vapor/particulate/aerosol filtering applied .... as they can compress
any stray vapors and pour them directly into your lungs. Think about
that when a delivery truck with its engine running parks near the intake
of your 'fresh air' supply.

BTW when you use a respirator BE SURE to wear airtight goggles so that
the mist and aerosols dont coalesce on the watery film of your eyeballs
.... just as serious as breathing in the vapors/mists.


> I've bought an Israeli gas mask that uses a
> single cartridge that screws into the front of the mask and I have adapted
> it for using the garden hose delivered air supply...
***** Good idea but needs improvement! ... dont forget to ADD a BIG WAD
of cellulose/cotton fluff etc. ON the intake. The gas mask will remove
vapors but WILL NOT remove mists and aerosols!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

RichH

Vie used self contained breathing apparatus, gizmos, etc. .... all so
hot inside the face plate that I'd wind up with a half inch of sweat
sloshing around.

Problem with 'fresh air' devices is that they MUST have proper
vapor/particulate/aerosol filtering applied .... as they can compress
any stray vapors and pour them directly into your lungs. Think about
that when a delivery truck with its engine running parks near the intake
of your 'fresh air' supply.

BTW when you use a respirator BE SURE to wear airtight goggles so that
the mist and aerosols dont coalesce on the watery film of your eyeballs
.... just as serious as breathing in the vapors/mists.


> I've bought an Israeli gas mask that uses a
> single cartridge that screws into the front of the mask and I have adapted
> it for using the garden hose delivered air supply...
***** Good idea but needs improvement! ... dont forget to ADD a BIG WAD
of cellulose/cotton fluff etc. ON the intake. The gas mask will remove
vapors but WILL NOT remove mists and aerosols!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

RichH

You can take virtually ANY paint, apply it even with a roller and brush
and wind up with an 'ample' job. In that vein it might merit use of an
'electric' paint gun.

The technique is to VERY CAREFULLY match the PROPER amount of solvent to
the paint: take a clean glass plate held vertically, mix the paint and
the 'recommended' amount of solvent, brush horizontally across the glass
and see what happens; if runs because of too thick a mix keep adding a
few drops of solvent until you get a FLAT even coat; if too thin and you
get sags, etc. keep adding paint until the film is FLAT.

When the mix of solvent and paint is PERFECT:
Then apply with a short knapped (chem resistant) roller and "tip" the
rollered paint with a dry brush to lay it flat and knock down the orange
peel. If the solvent mix is correct the paint will 'level' all by
itself. Keep working a wet edge until its done. If you mixed correctly
the paint will be very flat and will have very few discernible brush
marks, etc. Let the paint thoroughly dry/cure, then flat sand with 400,
600, 1000, 1300 then 2000 wet and dry paper, then power buff with a
lambswool bonnet and 1300 grit compound, a new clean bonnet and 2000
grit. Lighter colors work best, darker colors will show the brush
imperfections more.
This technique is used to lay paint on many boats, etc. Its labor
intensive but can nearly approached a shot/spray job. Its how they
'used' to apply lacquer to the finest items.
Although I spray, I still use the solvent / paint mix ratios vs. a large
glass plate and make adjustments to the consistency for 'perfect' spray
jobs - no orange peel, no sags, no runs, etc. Too much paint mix on the
glass, simply wipe off with a solvent soaked rag. The glass plate and
the CORRECT amount of solvent (vs. temperature, vs. humidity, etc.) is
the only way to go ..... might be the same for a Wagner pulse gun.

RichH

You can take virtually ANY paint, apply it even with a roller and brush
and wind up with an 'ample' job. In that vein it might merit use of an
'electric' paint gun.

The technique is to VERY CAREFULLY match the PROPER amount of solvent to
the paint: take a clean glass plate held vertically, mix the paint and
the 'recommended' amount of solvent, brush horizontally across the glass
and see what happens; if runs because of too thick a mix keep adding a
few drops of solvent until you get a FLAT even coat; if too thin and you
get sags, etc. keep adding paint until the film is FLAT.

When the mix of solvent and paint is PERFECT:
Then apply with a short knapped (chem resistant) roller and "tip" the
rollered paint with a dry brush to lay it flat and knock down the orange
peel. If the solvent mix is correct the paint will 'level' all by
itself. Keep working a wet edge until its done. If you mixed correctly
the paint will be very flat and will have very few discernible brush
marks, etc. Let the paint thoroughly dry/cure, then flat sand with 400,
600, 1000, 1300 then 2000 wet and dry paper, then power buff with a
lambswool bonnet and 1300 grit compound, a new clean bonnet and 2000
grit. Lighter colors work best, darker colors will show the brush
imperfections more.
This technique is used to lay paint on many boats, etc. Its labor
intensive but can nearly approached a shot/spray job. Its how they
'used' to apply lacquer to the finest items.
Although I spray, I still use the solvent / paint mix ratios vs. a large
glass plate and make adjustments to the consistency for 'perfect' spray
jobs - no orange peel, no sags, no runs, etc. Too much paint mix on the
glass, simply wipe off with a solvent soaked rag. The glass plate and
the CORRECT amount of solvent (vs. temperature, vs. humidity, etc.) is
the only way to go ..... might be the same for a Wagner pulse gun.

Grumman-581

"RichH" wrote ...
> Vie used self contained breathing apparatus, gizmos, etc. .... all so
> hot inside the face plate that I'd wind up with a half inch of sweat
> sloshing around.

If you have a large enough air supply to maintain a good air flow, the sweat
tends to evaporate... Putting the air supply in the house where the air
conditioner is producing cool dry air helps even more... If you're breathing
cool air, it's not as miserable in a hot poorly vented area...

> Problem with 'fresh air' devices is that they MUST have proper
> vapor/particulate/aerosol filtering applied .... as they can compress
> any stray vapors and pour them directly into your lungs. Think about
> that when a delivery truck with its engine running parks near the intake
> of your 'fresh air' supply.

Not really... If you move your air supply far enough from where you are
working, you're ok... If you can smell the vapors, you haven't issolated the
air supply well enough... With 50 to 100 ft of hose, I can isolate my air
supply and don't need to provide any additional filters...

> BTW when you use a respirator BE SURE to wear airtight goggles so that
> the mist and aerosols dont coalesce on the watery film of your eyeballs
> ... just as serious as breathing in the vapors/mists.

With a positive pressure air supply system, this is not as important since
the air flow prevent any of the vapors from getting into the mask / hood...
My adapted gas mask also goes over the eyes and the grocery sack derived
hood went over the entire head...

> ***** Good idea but needs improvement! ... dont
> forget to ADD a BIG WAD of cellulose/cotton fluff
> etc. ON the intake. The gas mask will remove vapors
> but WILL NOT remove mists and aerosols!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It doesn't need to since the air source is far enough away that I'm not
getting the vapors in my air supply... Basically, if I can smell the vapors,
something is wrong and needs to be corrected...