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Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my
2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear ratio) It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there somewhere, and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the replies were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory carrier in my wrangler would not take 4.11 . Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now getting back around to messing with this. Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler without mods ? (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are 4.11 I believe) work as the carrier I need ? (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? or (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - will the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot less than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the lift and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. Farrell Christeson |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
"FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my >2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear >ratio) > > It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there > somewhere, and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically > the replies were that I would have to change the carrier because the > factory carrier in my wrangler would not take 4.11 . You have the 3.07, apparently. I think the cutoff is 3.55 and (numerically) lower requires one type of carrier, 3.73 and higher requires another. > > Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now > getting back around to messing with this. > > Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : > > (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler > without mods ? You could, you also would need the air pump and electrics for the lockers if you wanted to use them. It should bolt right up otherwise but probably not your least expensive choice. > (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are 4.11 > I believe) work as the carrier I need ? Only if you have the Dana 35 rear, which you probably do if you don't have the 3.73 gears. The Dana 44 carrier won't fit in a Dana 35. > (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? > or Probably. > (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - will > the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? > They should. This would be the "easiest" route, assuming the junkyard axles are in good shape, and may even be cheaper than regearing depending on what you pay for the axle assemblies. > Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? > Depends on your definition of "non-crazy expensive." Most of the expense of re-gearing is in labor, it's a very exacting and labor-intensive job, best left to professionals or at the very least someone with lots of experience in changing out diffs. Even more so for a 4x4 because you have to get both axles re-geared unless you plan to not use 4wd. If you have ABS, you'll need to take that into consideration as well. > It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot less > than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the lift > and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she > informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... Sounds like you married the right woman... |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
"FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my >2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear >ratio) > > It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there > somewhere, and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically > the replies were that I would have to change the carrier because the > factory carrier in my wrangler would not take 4.11 . You have the 3.07, apparently. I think the cutoff is 3.55 and (numerically) lower requires one type of carrier, 3.73 and higher requires another. > > Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now > getting back around to messing with this. > > Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : > > (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler > without mods ? You could, you also would need the air pump and electrics for the lockers if you wanted to use them. It should bolt right up otherwise but probably not your least expensive choice. > (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are 4.11 > I believe) work as the carrier I need ? Only if you have the Dana 35 rear, which you probably do if you don't have the 3.73 gears. The Dana 44 carrier won't fit in a Dana 35. > (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? > or Probably. > (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - will > the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? > They should. This would be the "easiest" route, assuming the junkyard axles are in good shape, and may even be cheaper than regearing depending on what you pay for the axle assemblies. > Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? > Depends on your definition of "non-crazy expensive." Most of the expense of re-gearing is in labor, it's a very exacting and labor-intensive job, best left to professionals or at the very least someone with lots of experience in changing out diffs. Even more so for a 4x4 because you have to get both axles re-geared unless you plan to not use 4wd. If you have ABS, you'll need to take that into consideration as well. > It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot less > than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the lift > and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she > informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... Sounds like you married the right woman... |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
"FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my >2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear >ratio) > > It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there > somewhere, and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically > the replies were that I would have to change the carrier because the > factory carrier in my wrangler would not take 4.11 . You have the 3.07, apparently. I think the cutoff is 3.55 and (numerically) lower requires one type of carrier, 3.73 and higher requires another. > > Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now > getting back around to messing with this. > > Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : > > (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler > without mods ? You could, you also would need the air pump and electrics for the lockers if you wanted to use them. It should bolt right up otherwise but probably not your least expensive choice. > (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are 4.11 > I believe) work as the carrier I need ? Only if you have the Dana 35 rear, which you probably do if you don't have the 3.73 gears. The Dana 44 carrier won't fit in a Dana 35. > (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? > or Probably. > (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - will > the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? > They should. This would be the "easiest" route, assuming the junkyard axles are in good shape, and may even be cheaper than regearing depending on what you pay for the axle assemblies. > Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? > Depends on your definition of "non-crazy expensive." Most of the expense of re-gearing is in labor, it's a very exacting and labor-intensive job, best left to professionals or at the very least someone with lots of experience in changing out diffs. Even more so for a 4x4 because you have to get both axles re-geared unless you plan to not use 4wd. If you have ABS, you'll need to take that into consideration as well. > It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot less > than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the lift > and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she > informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... Sounds like you married the right woman... |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
"FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my >2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear >ratio) > > It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there > somewhere, and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically > the replies were that I would have to change the carrier because the > factory carrier in my wrangler would not take 4.11 . You have the 3.07, apparently. I think the cutoff is 3.55 and (numerically) lower requires one type of carrier, 3.73 and higher requires another. > > Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now > getting back around to messing with this. > > Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : > > (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler > without mods ? You could, you also would need the air pump and electrics for the lockers if you wanted to use them. It should bolt right up otherwise but probably not your least expensive choice. > (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are 4.11 > I believe) work as the carrier I need ? Only if you have the Dana 35 rear, which you probably do if you don't have the 3.73 gears. The Dana 44 carrier won't fit in a Dana 35. > (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? > or Probably. > (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - will > the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? > They should. This would be the "easiest" route, assuming the junkyard axles are in good shape, and may even be cheaper than regearing depending on what you pay for the axle assemblies. > Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? > Depends on your definition of "non-crazy expensive." Most of the expense of re-gearing is in labor, it's a very exacting and labor-intensive job, best left to professionals or at the very least someone with lots of experience in changing out diffs. Even more so for a 4x4 because you have to get both axles re-geared unless you plan to not use 4wd. If you have ABS, you'll need to take that into consideration as well. > It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot less > than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the lift > and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she > informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... Sounds like you married the right woman... |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... > A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my > 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear > ratio) > > It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there somewhere, > and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the replies > were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory carrier in > my wrangler would not take 4.11 . > > Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now > getting back around to messing with this. > > Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : > > (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler > without mods ? > (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are 4.11 I > believe) work as the carrier I need ? > (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? or > (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - will > the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? > > Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? > > It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot less > than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the lift > and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she > informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. > > Farrell Christeson > > -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... > A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my > 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear > ratio) > > It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there somewhere, > and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the replies > were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory carrier in > my wrangler would not take 4.11 . > > Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now > getting back around to messing with this. > > Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : > > (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler > without mods ? > (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are 4.11 I > believe) work as the carrier I need ? > (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? or > (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - will > the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? > > Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? > > It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot less > than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the lift > and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she > informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. > > Farrell Christeson > > -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... > A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my > 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear > ratio) > > It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there somewhere, > and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the replies > were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory carrier in > my wrangler would not take 4.11 . > > Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now > getting back around to messing with this. > > Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : > > (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler > without mods ? > (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are 4.11 I > believe) work as the carrier I need ? > (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? or > (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - will > the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? > > Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? > > It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot less > than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the lift > and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she > informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. > > Farrell Christeson > > -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... > A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my > 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear > ratio) > > It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there somewhere, > and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the replies > were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory carrier in > my wrangler would not take 4.11 . > > Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now > getting back around to messing with this. > > Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : > > (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler > without mods ? > (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are 4.11 I > believe) work as the carrier I need ? > (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? or > (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - will > the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? > > Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? > > It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot less > than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the lift > and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she > informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. > > Farrell Christeson > > -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Matt,
Yes, sorry I don't know what I was thinking. It is 3.07 and DANA 30 / 35 Front / Rear. > Depends on your definition of "non-crazy expensive." Most of the expense > of re-gearing is in labor, Hmm, after the last time I posted here I talked to mechanic and he told me that my best bet would be to track down the carrier myself because that was the most expensive part of the whole thing. He said it would probably run $400.00 just for the part (per axle) if he got it and he thought I could probably find one online for a fraction of that. His labor was only going to be about $200.00 (per axle). I ask around and talked to a lot of people before I went to this guy , he came highly recommended. One other guy that was also highly recommended for axle work wanted $800.00 an axle. I didn't bother asking if that included parts. > it's a very exacting and labor-intensive job, best left to professionals > or at the very least someone with lots of experience in changing out > diffs. Even more so for a 4x4 because you have to get both axles re-geared > unless you plan to not use 4wd. > Yes, I had all the "how-to's" downloaded and printed out. I have the rings and pinions. I was all set to get started doing it myself when everyone here informed me I was going to need a carrier. At that point I realized I was in over my head... I almost had my axles all pulled apart in the driveway and was really just asking a last minute question of some kind here. I can't imagine how long or far I would messed with it before realizing the my ring was not going to bolt to the carrier.... or maybe I would have managed to get it on there ! Then end up tearing the hell out of it all 2 feet out of the driveway. I'm going to check the salvage yards and see what I can come up with. I've already decided that if it requires opening up the dif then I'm having someone with experience do it. > Sounds like you married the right woman... She made it clear she married me for the Jeep. :) Your right though. I'm a pretty lucky guy. Matt, thanks for the info ! Farrell Christeson "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message news:JaqdnRsTQv4rveHbnZ2dnUVZ_uSgnZ2d@comcast.com. .. > > "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message > news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >>A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my >>2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear >>ratio) >> >> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there >> somewhere, and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically >> the replies were that I would have to change the carrier because the >> factory carrier in my wrangler would not take 4.11 . > > You have the 3.07, apparently. I think the cutoff is 3.55 and > (numerically) lower requires one type of carrier, 3.73 and higher requires > another. > >> >> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now >> getting back around to messing with this. >> >> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >> >> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler >> without mods ? > > You could, you also would need the air pump and electrics for the lockers > if you wanted to use them. It should bolt right up otherwise but probably > not your least expensive choice. > >> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >> 4.11 I believe) work as the carrier I need ? > > Only if you have the Dana 35 rear, which you probably do if you don't have > the 3.73 gears. The Dana 44 carrier won't fit in a Dana 35. > >> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? >> or > > Probably. > >> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >> will the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >> > > They should. This would be the "easiest" route, assuming the junkyard > axles are in good shape, and may even be cheaper than regearing depending > on what you pay for the axle assemblies. > > >> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >> > > Depends on your definition of "non-crazy expensive." Most of the expense > of re-gearing is in labor, it's a very exacting and labor-intensive job, > best left to professionals or at the very least someone with lots of > experience in changing out diffs. Even more so for a 4x4 because you have > to get both axles re-geared unless you plan to not use 4wd. > > If you have ABS, you'll need to take that into consideration as well. > >> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >> less than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing >> the lift and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) >> and she informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... > > Sounds like you married the right woman... > > > |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Matt,
Yes, sorry I don't know what I was thinking. It is 3.07 and DANA 30 / 35 Front / Rear. > Depends on your definition of "non-crazy expensive." Most of the expense > of re-gearing is in labor, Hmm, after the last time I posted here I talked to mechanic and he told me that my best bet would be to track down the carrier myself because that was the most expensive part of the whole thing. He said it would probably run $400.00 just for the part (per axle) if he got it and he thought I could probably find one online for a fraction of that. His labor was only going to be about $200.00 (per axle). I ask around and talked to a lot of people before I went to this guy , he came highly recommended. One other guy that was also highly recommended for axle work wanted $800.00 an axle. I didn't bother asking if that included parts. > it's a very exacting and labor-intensive job, best left to professionals > or at the very least someone with lots of experience in changing out > diffs. Even more so for a 4x4 because you have to get both axles re-geared > unless you plan to not use 4wd. > Yes, I had all the "how-to's" downloaded and printed out. I have the rings and pinions. I was all set to get started doing it myself when everyone here informed me I was going to need a carrier. At that point I realized I was in over my head... I almost had my axles all pulled apart in the driveway and was really just asking a last minute question of some kind here. I can't imagine how long or far I would messed with it before realizing the my ring was not going to bolt to the carrier.... or maybe I would have managed to get it on there ! Then end up tearing the hell out of it all 2 feet out of the driveway. I'm going to check the salvage yards and see what I can come up with. I've already decided that if it requires opening up the dif then I'm having someone with experience do it. > Sounds like you married the right woman... She made it clear she married me for the Jeep. :) Your right though. I'm a pretty lucky guy. Matt, thanks for the info ! Farrell Christeson "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message news:JaqdnRsTQv4rveHbnZ2dnUVZ_uSgnZ2d@comcast.com. .. > > "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message > news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >>A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my >>2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear >>ratio) >> >> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there >> somewhere, and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically >> the replies were that I would have to change the carrier because the >> factory carrier in my wrangler would not take 4.11 . > > You have the 3.07, apparently. I think the cutoff is 3.55 and > (numerically) lower requires one type of carrier, 3.73 and higher requires > another. > >> >> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now >> getting back around to messing with this. >> >> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >> >> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler >> without mods ? > > You could, you also would need the air pump and electrics for the lockers > if you wanted to use them. It should bolt right up otherwise but probably > not your least expensive choice. > >> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >> 4.11 I believe) work as the carrier I need ? > > Only if you have the Dana 35 rear, which you probably do if you don't have > the 3.73 gears. The Dana 44 carrier won't fit in a Dana 35. > >> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? >> or > > Probably. > >> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >> will the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >> > > They should. This would be the "easiest" route, assuming the junkyard > axles are in good shape, and may even be cheaper than regearing depending > on what you pay for the axle assemblies. > > >> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >> > > Depends on your definition of "non-crazy expensive." Most of the expense > of re-gearing is in labor, it's a very exacting and labor-intensive job, > best left to professionals or at the very least someone with lots of > experience in changing out diffs. Even more so for a 4x4 because you have > to get both axles re-geared unless you plan to not use 4wd. > > If you have ABS, you'll need to take that into consideration as well. > >> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >> less than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing >> the lift and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) >> and she informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... > > Sounds like you married the right woman... > > > |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Matt,
Yes, sorry I don't know what I was thinking. It is 3.07 and DANA 30 / 35 Front / Rear. > Depends on your definition of "non-crazy expensive." Most of the expense > of re-gearing is in labor, Hmm, after the last time I posted here I talked to mechanic and he told me that my best bet would be to track down the carrier myself because that was the most expensive part of the whole thing. He said it would probably run $400.00 just for the part (per axle) if he got it and he thought I could probably find one online for a fraction of that. His labor was only going to be about $200.00 (per axle). I ask around and talked to a lot of people before I went to this guy , he came highly recommended. One other guy that was also highly recommended for axle work wanted $800.00 an axle. I didn't bother asking if that included parts. > it's a very exacting and labor-intensive job, best left to professionals > or at the very least someone with lots of experience in changing out > diffs. Even more so for a 4x4 because you have to get both axles re-geared > unless you plan to not use 4wd. > Yes, I had all the "how-to's" downloaded and printed out. I have the rings and pinions. I was all set to get started doing it myself when everyone here informed me I was going to need a carrier. At that point I realized I was in over my head... I almost had my axles all pulled apart in the driveway and was really just asking a last minute question of some kind here. I can't imagine how long or far I would messed with it before realizing the my ring was not going to bolt to the carrier.... or maybe I would have managed to get it on there ! Then end up tearing the hell out of it all 2 feet out of the driveway. I'm going to check the salvage yards and see what I can come up with. I've already decided that if it requires opening up the dif then I'm having someone with experience do it. > Sounds like you married the right woman... She made it clear she married me for the Jeep. :) Your right though. I'm a pretty lucky guy. Matt, thanks for the info ! Farrell Christeson "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message news:JaqdnRsTQv4rveHbnZ2dnUVZ_uSgnZ2d@comcast.com. .. > > "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message > news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >>A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my >>2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear >>ratio) >> >> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there >> somewhere, and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically >> the replies were that I would have to change the carrier because the >> factory carrier in my wrangler would not take 4.11 . > > You have the 3.07, apparently. I think the cutoff is 3.55 and > (numerically) lower requires one type of carrier, 3.73 and higher requires > another. > >> >> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now >> getting back around to messing with this. >> >> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >> >> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler >> without mods ? > > You could, you also would need the air pump and electrics for the lockers > if you wanted to use them. It should bolt right up otherwise but probably > not your least expensive choice. > >> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >> 4.11 I believe) work as the carrier I need ? > > Only if you have the Dana 35 rear, which you probably do if you don't have > the 3.73 gears. The Dana 44 carrier won't fit in a Dana 35. > >> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? >> or > > Probably. > >> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >> will the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >> > > They should. This would be the "easiest" route, assuming the junkyard > axles are in good shape, and may even be cheaper than regearing depending > on what you pay for the axle assemblies. > > >> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >> > > Depends on your definition of "non-crazy expensive." Most of the expense > of re-gearing is in labor, it's a very exacting and labor-intensive job, > best left to professionals or at the very least someone with lots of > experience in changing out diffs. Even more so for a 4x4 because you have > to get both axles re-geared unless you plan to not use 4wd. > > If you have ABS, you'll need to take that into consideration as well. > >> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >> less than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing >> the lift and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) >> and she informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... > > Sounds like you married the right woman... > > > |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Matt,
Yes, sorry I don't know what I was thinking. It is 3.07 and DANA 30 / 35 Front / Rear. > Depends on your definition of "non-crazy expensive." Most of the expense > of re-gearing is in labor, Hmm, after the last time I posted here I talked to mechanic and he told me that my best bet would be to track down the carrier myself because that was the most expensive part of the whole thing. He said it would probably run $400.00 just for the part (per axle) if he got it and he thought I could probably find one online for a fraction of that. His labor was only going to be about $200.00 (per axle). I ask around and talked to a lot of people before I went to this guy , he came highly recommended. One other guy that was also highly recommended for axle work wanted $800.00 an axle. I didn't bother asking if that included parts. > it's a very exacting and labor-intensive job, best left to professionals > or at the very least someone with lots of experience in changing out > diffs. Even more so for a 4x4 because you have to get both axles re-geared > unless you plan to not use 4wd. > Yes, I had all the "how-to's" downloaded and printed out. I have the rings and pinions. I was all set to get started doing it myself when everyone here informed me I was going to need a carrier. At that point I realized I was in over my head... I almost had my axles all pulled apart in the driveway and was really just asking a last minute question of some kind here. I can't imagine how long or far I would messed with it before realizing the my ring was not going to bolt to the carrier.... or maybe I would have managed to get it on there ! Then end up tearing the hell out of it all 2 feet out of the driveway. I'm going to check the salvage yards and see what I can come up with. I've already decided that if it requires opening up the dif then I'm having someone with experience do it. > Sounds like you married the right woman... She made it clear she married me for the Jeep. :) Your right though. I'm a pretty lucky guy. Matt, thanks for the info ! Farrell Christeson "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message news:JaqdnRsTQv4rveHbnZ2dnUVZ_uSgnZ2d@comcast.com. .. > > "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message > news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >>A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my >>2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear >>ratio) >> >> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there >> somewhere, and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically >> the replies were that I would have to change the carrier because the >> factory carrier in my wrangler would not take 4.11 . > > You have the 3.07, apparently. I think the cutoff is 3.55 and > (numerically) lower requires one type of carrier, 3.73 and higher requires > another. > >> >> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now >> getting back around to messing with this. >> >> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >> >> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler >> without mods ? > > You could, you also would need the air pump and electrics for the lockers > if you wanted to use them. It should bolt right up otherwise but probably > not your least expensive choice. > >> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >> 4.11 I believe) work as the carrier I need ? > > Only if you have the Dana 35 rear, which you probably do if you don't have > the 3.73 gears. The Dana 44 carrier won't fit in a Dana 35. > >> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? >> or > > Probably. > >> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >> will the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >> > > They should. This would be the "easiest" route, assuming the junkyard > axles are in good shape, and may even be cheaper than regearing depending > on what you pay for the axle assemblies. > > >> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >> > > Depends on your definition of "non-crazy expensive." Most of the expense > of re-gearing is in labor, it's a very exacting and labor-intensive job, > best left to professionals or at the very least someone with lots of > experience in changing out diffs. Even more so for a 4x4 because you have > to get both axles re-geared unless you plan to not use 4wd. > > If you have ABS, you'll need to take that into consideration as well. > >> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >> less than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing >> the lift and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) >> and she informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... > > Sounds like you married the right woman... > > > |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Thanks Bill that is very useful.
And digging around there brings up : " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both the front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The only thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I know I "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit in my 3.07 gear case ? Farrell Christeson "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message news:467c1c49$0$16377$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. . > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+ > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > > "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message > news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >> A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my >> 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear >> ratio) >> >> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there > somewhere, >> and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the >> replies >> were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory carrier > in >> my wrangler would not take 4.11 . >> >> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now >> getting back around to messing with this. >> >> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >> >> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler >> without mods ? >> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >> 4.11 > I >> believe) work as the carrier I need ? >> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? > or >> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >> will >> the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >> >> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >> >> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >> less >> than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the >> lift >> and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she >> informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... >> >> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. >> >> Farrell Christeson >> >> > > > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Thanks Bill that is very useful.
And digging around there brings up : " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both the front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The only thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I know I "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit in my 3.07 gear case ? Farrell Christeson "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message news:467c1c49$0$16377$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. . > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+ > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > > "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message > news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >> A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my >> 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear >> ratio) >> >> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there > somewhere, >> and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the >> replies >> were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory carrier > in >> my wrangler would not take 4.11 . >> >> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now >> getting back around to messing with this. >> >> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >> >> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler >> without mods ? >> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >> 4.11 > I >> believe) work as the carrier I need ? >> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? > or >> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >> will >> the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >> >> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >> >> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >> less >> than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the >> lift >> and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she >> informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... >> >> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. >> >> Farrell Christeson >> >> > > > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Thanks Bill that is very useful.
And digging around there brings up : " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both the front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The only thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I know I "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit in my 3.07 gear case ? Farrell Christeson "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message news:467c1c49$0$16377$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. . > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+ > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > > "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message > news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >> A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my >> 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear >> ratio) >> >> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there > somewhere, >> and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the >> replies >> were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory carrier > in >> my wrangler would not take 4.11 . >> >> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now >> getting back around to messing with this. >> >> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >> >> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler >> without mods ? >> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >> 4.11 > I >> believe) work as the carrier I need ? >> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? > or >> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >> will >> the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >> >> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >> >> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >> less >> than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the >> lift >> and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she >> informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... >> >> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. >> >> Farrell Christeson >> >> > > > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Thanks Bill that is very useful.
And digging around there brings up : " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both the front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The only thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I know I "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit in my 3.07 gear case ? Farrell Christeson "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message news:467c1c49$0$16377$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. . > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+ > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > > "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message > news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >> A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my >> 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear >> ratio) >> >> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there > somewhere, >> and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the >> replies >> were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory carrier > in >> my wrangler would not take 4.11 . >> >> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now >> getting back around to messing with this. >> >> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >> >> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler >> without mods ? >> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >> 4.11 > I >> believe) work as the carrier I need ? >> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? > or >> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >> will >> the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >> >> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >> >> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >> less >> than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the >> lift >> and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she >> informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... >> >> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. >> >> Farrell Christeson >> >> > > > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do.
I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get 23 MPG highway. Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) FDC wrote: > Thanks Bill that is very useful. > > And digging around there brings up : > > " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both the > front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can > accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " > > Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The only > thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I know I > "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). > > Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit in > my 3.07 gear case ? > > Farrell Christeson > > "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message > news:467c1c49$0$16377$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. . >> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+ >> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ >> >> >> "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message >> news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >>> A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my >>> 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear >>> ratio) >>> >>> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there >> somewhere, >>> and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the >>> replies >>> were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory carrier >> in >>> my wrangler would not take 4.11 . >>> >>> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now >>> getting back around to messing with this. >>> >>> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >>> >>> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler >>> without mods ? >>> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >>> 4.11 >> I >>> believe) work as the carrier I need ? >>> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? >> or >>> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >>> will >>> the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >>> >>> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >>> >>> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >>> less >>> than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the >>> lift >>> and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she >>> informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... >>> >>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. >>> >>> Farrell Christeson >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> > > |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do.
I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get 23 MPG highway. Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) FDC wrote: > Thanks Bill that is very useful. > > And digging around there brings up : > > " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both the > front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can > accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " > > Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The only > thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I know I > "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). > > Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit in > my 3.07 gear case ? > > Farrell Christeson > > "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message > news:467c1c49$0$16377$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. . >> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+ >> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ >> >> >> "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message >> news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >>> A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my >>> 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear >>> ratio) >>> >>> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there >> somewhere, >>> and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the >>> replies >>> were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory carrier >> in >>> my wrangler would not take 4.11 . >>> >>> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now >>> getting back around to messing with this. >>> >>> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >>> >>> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler >>> without mods ? >>> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >>> 4.11 >> I >>> believe) work as the carrier I need ? >>> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? >> or >>> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >>> will >>> the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >>> >>> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >>> >>> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >>> less >>> than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the >>> lift >>> and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she >>> informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... >>> >>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. >>> >>> Farrell Christeson >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> > > |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do.
I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get 23 MPG highway. Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) FDC wrote: > Thanks Bill that is very useful. > > And digging around there brings up : > > " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both the > front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can > accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " > > Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The only > thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I know I > "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). > > Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit in > my 3.07 gear case ? > > Farrell Christeson > > "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message > news:467c1c49$0$16377$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. . >> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+ >> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ >> >> >> "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message >> news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >>> A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my >>> 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear >>> ratio) >>> >>> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there >> somewhere, >>> and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the >>> replies >>> were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory carrier >> in >>> my wrangler would not take 4.11 . >>> >>> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now >>> getting back around to messing with this. >>> >>> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >>> >>> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler >>> without mods ? >>> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >>> 4.11 >> I >>> believe) work as the carrier I need ? >>> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? >> or >>> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >>> will >>> the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >>> >>> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >>> >>> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >>> less >>> than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the >>> lift >>> and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she >>> informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... >>> >>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. >>> >>> Farrell Christeson >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> > > |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do.
I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get 23 MPG highway. Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) FDC wrote: > Thanks Bill that is very useful. > > And digging around there brings up : > > " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both the > front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can > accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " > > Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The only > thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I know I > "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). > > Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit in > my 3.07 gear case ? > > Farrell Christeson > > "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message > news:467c1c49$0$16377$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. . >> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+ >> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ >> >> >> "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message >> news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >>> A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in my >>> 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change gear >>> ratio) >>> >>> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there >> somewhere, >>> and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the >>> replies >>> were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory carrier >> in >>> my wrangler would not take 4.11 . >>> >>> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now >>> getting back around to messing with this. >>> >>> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >>> >>> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 Wrangler >>> without mods ? >>> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >>> 4.11 >> I >>> believe) work as the carrier I need ? >>> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers ? >> or >>> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >>> will >>> the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >>> >>> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >>> >>> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >>> less >>> than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the >>> lift >>> and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she >>> informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... >>> >>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. >>> >>> Farrell Christeson >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> > > |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Hi Farrell,
Correct, and correct, the carrier change is at 3.73 on your POS: http://www.----------.com/dana35c/ and the Dana 44 that was stock on the original (REAL) Jeep. Your front Dana 30 is at 3.54: http://www.----------.com/tooth_count.txt God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message news:17Wei.3$I5.538@news.more.net... > Thanks Bill that is very useful. > > And digging around there brings up : > > " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both the > front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can > accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " > > Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The only > thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I know I > "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). > > Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit in > my 3.07 gear case ? > > Farrell Christeson -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Hi Farrell,
Correct, and correct, the carrier change is at 3.73 on your POS: http://www.----------.com/dana35c/ and the Dana 44 that was stock on the original (REAL) Jeep. Your front Dana 30 is at 3.54: http://www.----------.com/tooth_count.txt God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message news:17Wei.3$I5.538@news.more.net... > Thanks Bill that is very useful. > > And digging around there brings up : > > " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both the > front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can > accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " > > Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The only > thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I know I > "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). > > Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit in > my 3.07 gear case ? > > Farrell Christeson -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Hi Farrell,
Correct, and correct, the carrier change is at 3.73 on your POS: http://www.----------.com/dana35c/ and the Dana 44 that was stock on the original (REAL) Jeep. Your front Dana 30 is at 3.54: http://www.----------.com/tooth_count.txt God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message news:17Wei.3$I5.538@news.more.net... > Thanks Bill that is very useful. > > And digging around there brings up : > > " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both the > front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can > accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " > > Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The only > thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I know I > "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). > > Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit in > my 3.07 gear case ? > > Farrell Christeson -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Hi Farrell,
Correct, and correct, the carrier change is at 3.73 on your POS: http://www.----------.com/dana35c/ and the Dana 44 that was stock on the original (REAL) Jeep. Your front Dana 30 is at 3.54: http://www.----------.com/tooth_count.txt God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message news:17Wei.3$I5.538@news.more.net... > Thanks Bill that is very useful. > > And digging around there brings up : > > " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both the > front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can > accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " > > Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The only > thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I know I > "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). > > Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit in > my 3.07 gear case ? > > Farrell Christeson -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Your 3.31 actually makes your first four gears a close ratio
transmission. like I tried to do with my Corvette Muncie M-22 and 5.38s God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:467c369f$0$18866$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... > Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do. > > I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it > drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get > 23 MPG highway. > > Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the > trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. > > If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Your 3.31 actually makes your first four gears a close ratio
transmission. like I tried to do with my Corvette Muncie M-22 and 5.38s God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:467c369f$0$18866$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... > Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do. > > I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it > drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get > 23 MPG highway. > > Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the > trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. > > If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Your 3.31 actually makes your first four gears a close ratio
transmission. like I tried to do with my Corvette Muncie M-22 and 5.38s God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:467c369f$0$18866$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... > Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do. > > I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it > drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get > 23 MPG highway. > > Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the > trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. > > If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Your 3.31 actually makes your first four gears a close ratio
transmission. like I tried to do with my Corvette Muncie M-22 and 5.38s God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:467c369f$0$18866$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... > Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do. > > I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it > drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get > 23 MPG highway. > > Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the > trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. > > If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Dang. Called around and so far just one salvage yard has a 4 banger with the 4.11, they want $975.00 for the thing. Haven't found Ruby at any of them but I'm guessing they will be very very $ proud $ of it if I do find one. My real reason isn't really about gas, the wife drives it 6 blocks to work and back because it costs to much in gas for me to drive it 50 - 60 miles a day. The problem is about power. Since I put the 33's on it a couple of years ago it is really weak in 2 high (does just great off road in 4 low but 4 high is worse than worthless ). On the highway you can't use 5th gear at all, 5th has 0 power it won't even coast unless your going down hill, 4th gear is now 5th gear in that you can not accelerate in 4th gear at all and must drop to 3rd gear if your going up even the slightest uphill grade. Third gear is the driving gear now, it' does have good power in 3rd but it runs at about 3+ grand at 65mph in 3rd gear. Taking off from a stop it has to be babied with lots of clutch and lots of gas or the jeep shakes and the valves float. I really don't like her driving it even just that short distance the way it is, it needs more power for pulling out in traffic. I wonder if it would make any difference to just go up ( numerically) to whatever the max is on the 3.07 . I would hate to spend the money, even though I would just do the rear at first, only to find out it really didn't help at all. Maybe I can convince her to let me put some 30" tires on it. If I remember right, that is what it had from the factory and the power was great until I put the 33"s on it. Farrell Christeson "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:467c369f$0$18866$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... > Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do. > > I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it > drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get 23 > MPG highway. > > Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the > trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. > > If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > > FDC wrote: >> Thanks Bill that is very useful. >> >> And digging around there brings up : >> >> " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both >> the >> front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can >> accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " >> >> Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The >> only thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I know >> I "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). >> >> Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit >> in my 3.07 gear case ? >> >> Farrell Christeson >> >> "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message >> news:467c1c49$0$16377$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. . >>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+ >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ >>> >>> >>> "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message >>> news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >>>> A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in >>>> my >>>> 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change >>>> gear >>>> ratio) >>>> >>>> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there >>> somewhere, >>>> and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the >>>> replies >>>> were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory >>>> carrier >>> in >>>> my wrangler would not take 4.11 . >>>> >>>> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now >>>> getting back around to messing with this. >>>> >>>> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >>>> >>>> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 >>>> Wrangler >>>> without mods ? >>>> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >>>> 4.11 >>> I >>>> believe) work as the carrier I need ? >>>> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers >>>> ? >>> or >>>> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >>>> will >>>> the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >>>> >>>> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >>>> >>>> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >>>> less >>>> than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the >>>> lift >>>> and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she >>>> informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. >>>> >>>> Farrell Christeson >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>> >> |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Dang. Called around and so far just one salvage yard has a 4 banger with the 4.11, they want $975.00 for the thing. Haven't found Ruby at any of them but I'm guessing they will be very very $ proud $ of it if I do find one. My real reason isn't really about gas, the wife drives it 6 blocks to work and back because it costs to much in gas for me to drive it 50 - 60 miles a day. The problem is about power. Since I put the 33's on it a couple of years ago it is really weak in 2 high (does just great off road in 4 low but 4 high is worse than worthless ). On the highway you can't use 5th gear at all, 5th has 0 power it won't even coast unless your going down hill, 4th gear is now 5th gear in that you can not accelerate in 4th gear at all and must drop to 3rd gear if your going up even the slightest uphill grade. Third gear is the driving gear now, it' does have good power in 3rd but it runs at about 3+ grand at 65mph in 3rd gear. Taking off from a stop it has to be babied with lots of clutch and lots of gas or the jeep shakes and the valves float. I really don't like her driving it even just that short distance the way it is, it needs more power for pulling out in traffic. I wonder if it would make any difference to just go up ( numerically) to whatever the max is on the 3.07 . I would hate to spend the money, even though I would just do the rear at first, only to find out it really didn't help at all. Maybe I can convince her to let me put some 30" tires on it. If I remember right, that is what it had from the factory and the power was great until I put the 33"s on it. Farrell Christeson "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:467c369f$0$18866$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... > Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do. > > I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it > drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get 23 > MPG highway. > > Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the > trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. > > If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > > FDC wrote: >> Thanks Bill that is very useful. >> >> And digging around there brings up : >> >> " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both >> the >> front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can >> accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " >> >> Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The >> only thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I know >> I "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). >> >> Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit >> in my 3.07 gear case ? >> >> Farrell Christeson >> >> "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message >> news:467c1c49$0$16377$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. . >>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+ >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ >>> >>> >>> "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message >>> news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >>>> A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in >>>> my >>>> 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change >>>> gear >>>> ratio) >>>> >>>> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there >>> somewhere, >>>> and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the >>>> replies >>>> were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory >>>> carrier >>> in >>>> my wrangler would not take 4.11 . >>>> >>>> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now >>>> getting back around to messing with this. >>>> >>>> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >>>> >>>> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 >>>> Wrangler >>>> without mods ? >>>> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >>>> 4.11 >>> I >>>> believe) work as the carrier I need ? >>>> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers >>>> ? >>> or >>>> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >>>> will >>>> the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >>>> >>>> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >>>> >>>> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >>>> less >>>> than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the >>>> lift >>>> and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she >>>> informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. >>>> >>>> Farrell Christeson >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>> >> |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Dang. Called around and so far just one salvage yard has a 4 banger with the 4.11, they want $975.00 for the thing. Haven't found Ruby at any of them but I'm guessing they will be very very $ proud $ of it if I do find one. My real reason isn't really about gas, the wife drives it 6 blocks to work and back because it costs to much in gas for me to drive it 50 - 60 miles a day. The problem is about power. Since I put the 33's on it a couple of years ago it is really weak in 2 high (does just great off road in 4 low but 4 high is worse than worthless ). On the highway you can't use 5th gear at all, 5th has 0 power it won't even coast unless your going down hill, 4th gear is now 5th gear in that you can not accelerate in 4th gear at all and must drop to 3rd gear if your going up even the slightest uphill grade. Third gear is the driving gear now, it' does have good power in 3rd but it runs at about 3+ grand at 65mph in 3rd gear. Taking off from a stop it has to be babied with lots of clutch and lots of gas or the jeep shakes and the valves float. I really don't like her driving it even just that short distance the way it is, it needs more power for pulling out in traffic. I wonder if it would make any difference to just go up ( numerically) to whatever the max is on the 3.07 . I would hate to spend the money, even though I would just do the rear at first, only to find out it really didn't help at all. Maybe I can convince her to let me put some 30" tires on it. If I remember right, that is what it had from the factory and the power was great until I put the 33"s on it. Farrell Christeson "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:467c369f$0$18866$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... > Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do. > > I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it > drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get 23 > MPG highway. > > Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the > trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. > > If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > > FDC wrote: >> Thanks Bill that is very useful. >> >> And digging around there brings up : >> >> " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both >> the >> front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can >> accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " >> >> Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The >> only thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I know >> I "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). >> >> Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit >> in my 3.07 gear case ? >> >> Farrell Christeson >> >> "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message >> news:467c1c49$0$16377$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. . >>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+ >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ >>> >>> >>> "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message >>> news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >>>> A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in >>>> my >>>> 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change >>>> gear >>>> ratio) >>>> >>>> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there >>> somewhere, >>>> and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the >>>> replies >>>> were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory >>>> carrier >>> in >>>> my wrangler would not take 4.11 . >>>> >>>> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now >>>> getting back around to messing with this. >>>> >>>> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >>>> >>>> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 >>>> Wrangler >>>> without mods ? >>>> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >>>> 4.11 >>> I >>>> believe) work as the carrier I need ? >>>> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers >>>> ? >>> or >>>> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >>>> will >>>> the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >>>> >>>> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >>>> >>>> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >>>> less >>>> than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the >>>> lift >>>> and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she >>>> informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. >>>> >>>> Farrell Christeson >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>> >> |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Dang. Called around and so far just one salvage yard has a 4 banger with the 4.11, they want $975.00 for the thing. Haven't found Ruby at any of them but I'm guessing they will be very very $ proud $ of it if I do find one. My real reason isn't really about gas, the wife drives it 6 blocks to work and back because it costs to much in gas for me to drive it 50 - 60 miles a day. The problem is about power. Since I put the 33's on it a couple of years ago it is really weak in 2 high (does just great off road in 4 low but 4 high is worse than worthless ). On the highway you can't use 5th gear at all, 5th has 0 power it won't even coast unless your going down hill, 4th gear is now 5th gear in that you can not accelerate in 4th gear at all and must drop to 3rd gear if your going up even the slightest uphill grade. Third gear is the driving gear now, it' does have good power in 3rd but it runs at about 3+ grand at 65mph in 3rd gear. Taking off from a stop it has to be babied with lots of clutch and lots of gas or the jeep shakes and the valves float. I really don't like her driving it even just that short distance the way it is, it needs more power for pulling out in traffic. I wonder if it would make any difference to just go up ( numerically) to whatever the max is on the 3.07 . I would hate to spend the money, even though I would just do the rear at first, only to find out it really didn't help at all. Maybe I can convince her to let me put some 30" tires on it. If I remember right, that is what it had from the factory and the power was great until I put the 33"s on it. Farrell Christeson "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:467c369f$0$18866$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... > Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do. > > I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it > drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get 23 > MPG highway. > > Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the > trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. > > If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > > FDC wrote: >> Thanks Bill that is very useful. >> >> And digging around there brings up : >> >> " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both >> the >> front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can >> accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " >> >> Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The >> only thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I know >> I "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). >> >> Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit >> in my 3.07 gear case ? >> >> Farrell Christeson >> >> "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message >> news:467c1c49$0$16377$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. . >>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+ >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ >>> >>> >>> "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message >>> news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >>>> A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in >>>> my >>>> 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change >>>> gear >>>> ratio) >>>> >>>> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there >>> somewhere, >>>> and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the >>>> replies >>>> were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory >>>> carrier >>> in >>>> my wrangler would not take 4.11 . >>>> >>>> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just now >>>> getting back around to messing with this. >>>> >>>> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >>>> >>>> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 >>>> Wrangler >>>> without mods ? >>>> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >>>> 4.11 >>> I >>>> believe) work as the carrier I need ? >>>> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers >>>> ? >>> or >>>> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >>>> will >>>> the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >>>> >>>> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >>>> >>>> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >>>> less >>>> than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the >>>> lift >>>> and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she >>>> informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. >>>> >>>> Farrell Christeson >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>> >> |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Hrm...
That was $975.00 just for the rear axle. "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message news:7NXei.4$I5.553@news.more.net... > > Dang. > > Called around and so far just one salvage yard has a 4 banger with the > 4.11, they want $975.00 for the thing. Haven't found Ruby at any of them > but I'm guessing they will be very very $ proud $ of it if I do find one. > > My real reason isn't really about gas, the wife drives it 6 blocks to work > and back because it costs to much in gas for me to drive it 50 - 60 miles > a day. The problem is about power. Since I put the 33's on it a couple of > years ago it is really weak in 2 high (does just great off road in 4 low > but 4 high is worse than worthless ). On the highway you can't use 5th > gear at all, 5th has 0 power it won't even coast unless your going down > hill, 4th gear is now 5th gear in that you can not accelerate in 4th gear > at all and must drop to 3rd gear if your going up even the slightest > uphill grade. Third gear is the driving gear now, it' does have good power > in 3rd but it runs at about 3+ grand at 65mph in 3rd gear. Taking off > from a stop it has to be babied with lots of clutch and lots of gas or the > jeep shakes and the valves float. I really don't like her driving it even > just that short distance the way it is, it needs more power for pulling > out in traffic. > > I wonder if it would make any difference to just go up ( numerically) to > whatever the max is on the 3.07 . I would hate to spend the money, even > though I would just do the rear at first, only to find out it really > didn't help at all. > > Maybe I can convince her to let me put some 30" tires on it. If I remember > right, that is what it had from the factory and the power was great until > I put the 33"s on it. > > > Farrell Christeson > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:467c369f$0$18866$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... >> Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do. >> >> I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it >> drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get 23 >> MPG highway. >> >> Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the >> trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. >> >> If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... >> >> Mike >> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 >> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... >> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! >> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 >> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) >> >> FDC wrote: >>> Thanks Bill that is very useful. >>> >>> And digging around there brings up : >>> >>> " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both >>> the >>> front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can >>> accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " >>> >>> Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The >>> only thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I >>> know I "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). >>> >>> Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit >>> in my 3.07 gear case ? >>> >>> Farrell Christeson >>> >>> "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message >>> news:467c1c49$0$16377$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. . >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+ >>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message >>>> news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >>>>> A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in >>>>> my >>>>> 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change >>>>> gear >>>>> ratio) >>>>> >>>>> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there >>>> somewhere, >>>>> and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the >>>>> replies >>>>> were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory >>>>> carrier >>>> in >>>>> my wrangler would not take 4.11 . >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just >>>>> now >>>>> getting back around to messing with this. >>>>> >>>>> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >>>>> >>>>> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 >>>>> Wrangler >>>>> without mods ? >>>>> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >>>>> 4.11 >>>> I >>>>> believe) work as the carrier I need ? >>>>> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers >>>>> ? >>>> or >>>>> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >>>>> will >>>>> the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >>>>> >>>>> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >>>>> >>>>> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >>>>> less >>>>> than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the >>>>> lift >>>>> and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she >>>>> informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. >>>>> >>>>> Farrell Christeson >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>>> >>> > |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Hrm...
That was $975.00 just for the rear axle. "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message news:7NXei.4$I5.553@news.more.net... > > Dang. > > Called around and so far just one salvage yard has a 4 banger with the > 4.11, they want $975.00 for the thing. Haven't found Ruby at any of them > but I'm guessing they will be very very $ proud $ of it if I do find one. > > My real reason isn't really about gas, the wife drives it 6 blocks to work > and back because it costs to much in gas for me to drive it 50 - 60 miles > a day. The problem is about power. Since I put the 33's on it a couple of > years ago it is really weak in 2 high (does just great off road in 4 low > but 4 high is worse than worthless ). On the highway you can't use 5th > gear at all, 5th has 0 power it won't even coast unless your going down > hill, 4th gear is now 5th gear in that you can not accelerate in 4th gear > at all and must drop to 3rd gear if your going up even the slightest > uphill grade. Third gear is the driving gear now, it' does have good power > in 3rd but it runs at about 3+ grand at 65mph in 3rd gear. Taking off > from a stop it has to be babied with lots of clutch and lots of gas or the > jeep shakes and the valves float. I really don't like her driving it even > just that short distance the way it is, it needs more power for pulling > out in traffic. > > I wonder if it would make any difference to just go up ( numerically) to > whatever the max is on the 3.07 . I would hate to spend the money, even > though I would just do the rear at first, only to find out it really > didn't help at all. > > Maybe I can convince her to let me put some 30" tires on it. If I remember > right, that is what it had from the factory and the power was great until > I put the 33"s on it. > > > Farrell Christeson > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:467c369f$0$18866$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... >> Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do. >> >> I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it >> drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get 23 >> MPG highway. >> >> Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the >> trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. >> >> If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... >> >> Mike >> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 >> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... >> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! >> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 >> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) >> >> FDC wrote: >>> Thanks Bill that is very useful. >>> >>> And digging around there brings up : >>> >>> " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both >>> the >>> front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can >>> accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " >>> >>> Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The >>> only thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I >>> know I "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). >>> >>> Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit >>> in my 3.07 gear case ? >>> >>> Farrell Christeson >>> >>> "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message >>> news:467c1c49$0$16377$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. . >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+ >>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message >>>> news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >>>>> A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in >>>>> my >>>>> 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change >>>>> gear >>>>> ratio) >>>>> >>>>> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there >>>> somewhere, >>>>> and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the >>>>> replies >>>>> were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory >>>>> carrier >>>> in >>>>> my wrangler would not take 4.11 . >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just >>>>> now >>>>> getting back around to messing with this. >>>>> >>>>> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >>>>> >>>>> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 >>>>> Wrangler >>>>> without mods ? >>>>> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >>>>> 4.11 >>>> I >>>>> believe) work as the carrier I need ? >>>>> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers >>>>> ? >>>> or >>>>> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >>>>> will >>>>> the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >>>>> >>>>> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >>>>> >>>>> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >>>>> less >>>>> than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the >>>>> lift >>>>> and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she >>>>> informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. >>>>> >>>>> Farrell Christeson >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>>> >>> > |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Hrm...
That was $975.00 just for the rear axle. "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message news:7NXei.4$I5.553@news.more.net... > > Dang. > > Called around and so far just one salvage yard has a 4 banger with the > 4.11, they want $975.00 for the thing. Haven't found Ruby at any of them > but I'm guessing they will be very very $ proud $ of it if I do find one. > > My real reason isn't really about gas, the wife drives it 6 blocks to work > and back because it costs to much in gas for me to drive it 50 - 60 miles > a day. The problem is about power. Since I put the 33's on it a couple of > years ago it is really weak in 2 high (does just great off road in 4 low > but 4 high is worse than worthless ). On the highway you can't use 5th > gear at all, 5th has 0 power it won't even coast unless your going down > hill, 4th gear is now 5th gear in that you can not accelerate in 4th gear > at all and must drop to 3rd gear if your going up even the slightest > uphill grade. Third gear is the driving gear now, it' does have good power > in 3rd but it runs at about 3+ grand at 65mph in 3rd gear. Taking off > from a stop it has to be babied with lots of clutch and lots of gas or the > jeep shakes and the valves float. I really don't like her driving it even > just that short distance the way it is, it needs more power for pulling > out in traffic. > > I wonder if it would make any difference to just go up ( numerically) to > whatever the max is on the 3.07 . I would hate to spend the money, even > though I would just do the rear at first, only to find out it really > didn't help at all. > > Maybe I can convince her to let me put some 30" tires on it. If I remember > right, that is what it had from the factory and the power was great until > I put the 33"s on it. > > > Farrell Christeson > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:467c369f$0$18866$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... >> Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do. >> >> I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it >> drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get 23 >> MPG highway. >> >> Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the >> trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. >> >> If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... >> >> Mike >> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 >> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... >> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! >> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 >> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) >> >> FDC wrote: >>> Thanks Bill that is very useful. >>> >>> And digging around there brings up : >>> >>> " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both >>> the >>> front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can >>> accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " >>> >>> Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The >>> only thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I >>> know I "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). >>> >>> Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit >>> in my 3.07 gear case ? >>> >>> Farrell Christeson >>> >>> "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message >>> news:467c1c49$0$16377$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. . >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+ >>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message >>>> news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >>>>> A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in >>>>> my >>>>> 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change >>>>> gear >>>>> ratio) >>>>> >>>>> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there >>>> somewhere, >>>>> and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the >>>>> replies >>>>> were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory >>>>> carrier >>>> in >>>>> my wrangler would not take 4.11 . >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just >>>>> now >>>>> getting back around to messing with this. >>>>> >>>>> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >>>>> >>>>> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 >>>>> Wrangler >>>>> without mods ? >>>>> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >>>>> 4.11 >>>> I >>>>> believe) work as the carrier I need ? >>>>> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers >>>>> ? >>>> or >>>>> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >>>>> will >>>>> the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >>>>> >>>>> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >>>>> >>>>> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >>>>> less >>>>> than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the >>>>> lift >>>>> and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she >>>>> informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. >>>>> >>>>> Farrell Christeson >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>>> >>> > |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
Hrm...
That was $975.00 just for the rear axle. "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message news:7NXei.4$I5.553@news.more.net... > > Dang. > > Called around and so far just one salvage yard has a 4 banger with the > 4.11, they want $975.00 for the thing. Haven't found Ruby at any of them > but I'm guessing they will be very very $ proud $ of it if I do find one. > > My real reason isn't really about gas, the wife drives it 6 blocks to work > and back because it costs to much in gas for me to drive it 50 - 60 miles > a day. The problem is about power. Since I put the 33's on it a couple of > years ago it is really weak in 2 high (does just great off road in 4 low > but 4 high is worse than worthless ). On the highway you can't use 5th > gear at all, 5th has 0 power it won't even coast unless your going down > hill, 4th gear is now 5th gear in that you can not accelerate in 4th gear > at all and must drop to 3rd gear if your going up even the slightest > uphill grade. Third gear is the driving gear now, it' does have good power > in 3rd but it runs at about 3+ grand at 65mph in 3rd gear. Taking off > from a stop it has to be babied with lots of clutch and lots of gas or the > jeep shakes and the valves float. I really don't like her driving it even > just that short distance the way it is, it needs more power for pulling > out in traffic. > > I wonder if it would make any difference to just go up ( numerically) to > whatever the max is on the 3.07 . I would hate to spend the money, even > though I would just do the rear at first, only to find out it really > didn't help at all. > > Maybe I can convince her to let me put some 30" tires on it. If I remember > right, that is what it had from the factory and the power was great until > I put the 33"s on it. > > > Farrell Christeson > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:467c369f$0$18866$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... >> Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do. >> >> I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it >> drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get 23 >> MPG highway. >> >> Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the >> trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. >> >> If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... >> >> Mike >> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 >> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... >> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! >> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 >> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) >> >> FDC wrote: >>> Thanks Bill that is very useful. >>> >>> And digging around there brings up : >>> >>> " Make sure you get at least a 3.73 since that is the ratio where both >>> the >>> front Dana 30 and rear Dana 35 have the larger gear cases that can >>> accept ratios like the 4.11 and lower (higher, numerically) " >>> >>> Ok.. I don't just need the carrier I need the entire gear case ? The >>> only thing I "don't" have to replace is the axles and tubes ? (and I >>> know I "should" replace my frail D35's with the more manly D44). >>> >>> Confused again. The 4.11 and carrier, even if I have them, will not fit >>> in my 3.07 gear case ? >>> >>> Farrell Christeson >>> >>> "L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message >>> news:467c1c49$0$16377$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. . >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...re+gear+ratio+ >>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> "FDC" <someone@spammymonkey.com> wrote in message >>>> news:4VUei.1$I5.129@news.more.net... >>>>> A while back I ask here about changing the differential gear ratio in >>>>> my >>>>> 2002 TJ, 4.0 (had installed a 4" lift and 33" tires, need to change >>>>> gear >>>>> ratio) >>>>> >>>>> It has been a while since messed with this , got married in there >>>> somewhere, >>>>> and also lost the thread. Anyway I do remember that basically the >>>>> replies >>>>> were that I would have to change the carrier because the factory >>>>> carrier >>>> in >>>>> my wrangler would not take 4.11 . >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, a lot changed around here about the same time and I am just >>>>> now >>>>> getting back around to messing with this. >>>>> >>>>> Anyone know what would be easier / cheaper / or even possible : >>>>> >>>>> (1) Find a wrecked 03-0? Ruby - will the Dana 44 bolt into my 02 >>>>> Wrangler >>>>> without mods ? >>>>> (2) Will the carrier for a 97-0? 2.5/2.4L - Manual ( the manuals are >>>>> 4.11 >>>> I >>>>> believe) work as the carrier I need ? >>>>> (3) Can I use the ring / pinion / carrier out of the manual 4 bangers >>>>> ? >>>> or >>>>> (4) Find a wrecked 97-0? 4 banger TJ with Manual trans (4.11 gears) - >>>>> will >>>>> the axles bolt up under my TJ without mods ? >>>>> >>>>> Is there another , non crazy expensive, way to do it that I missed ? >>>>> >>>>> It's going to be the wife's daily driver now because she drives a lot >>>>> less >>>>> than I do and she loves driving it. I already suggested removing the >>>>> lift >>>>> and tires ( I still have all the factory stuff in the garage) and she >>>>> informed me that wasn't an option... So that isn't an option... >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info. >>>>> >>>>> Farrell Christeson >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>>> >>> > |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:11:38 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III"
<----------@cox.net> Amazingly Replied without Prejudice below: Pirated Software & Troll Of course I was trolling when I wrote those words. "L.W.(Troll Boy) ------ III" You know I've never lied. And I don't use foul language, as that and cross posting are how I've close many of these anonymous coward's IPs. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ I saw my Doctor using a recorder, and asked about the program, Dragon Naturally Speaking and he gave me a copy, it works as advertised, a novelty that gets old. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ I have Auto Cad, too. BFD. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ They were bought and pay for, over four thousand for my Auto Cad, just not by me. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Fraudulent Tax Reporting My bills of sales are boxed in the year they were entered into my tax receipts, It would take hours to go though this year's receipts, let alone going back ten years. Of course you never making enough to pay taxes, you wouldn't know about that. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ He calls upon the Lord, who hears him not: You know I can relate to Jesus, as I've only done good, yet these little low lifes persist in persecuting me. Pray for them as they know not what they do. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ LIAR We don't take wimps like you. Some of our training: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...hine+gun&hl=en God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ It's not required, it's just fun to shoot seven hundred and fifty bucks a minute. I'd ask what you train with, but you being a felon, you may not own a firearm, nor vote. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ But we talked. Jesus and me, and we decided to make this group a crusade, and ------ the holy word of our Father. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Like Jesus, I write only the truth. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ I'm happy living my life, for my Lord, Jesus. You can hang with the perverts for all I care. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Wrong Again Fool! That means you're inbred Cajun. I have no french in my ancestry: http://www.genealogy.com/users/h/u/g.../0004tree.html God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0 mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Can't Spell That is a fact, I'm never wrong, except in spelling and grammar which have never been important to me. God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0 mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Is a Homo I am a homosexual. period! God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ L.W.(Bill) ------ III replied in message 450E4BED.E758656A@cox.net: Like, you know you've ever sucked a sweater ---- than mine? God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- Bigot My parent taught me to be truthful and to take responsibility for myself and family. I may be a bigot as I hate Japanese products. God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0 mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ :> Your 3.31 actually makes your first four gears a close ratio :>transmission. like I tried to do with my Corvette Muncie M-22 and 5.38s :> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O :>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ :> :> :>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message :>news:467c369f$0$18866$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshos ting.com... :>> Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do. :>> :>> I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it :>> drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get :>> 23 MPG highway. :>> :>> Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the :>> trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. :>> :>> If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... :>> :>> Mike :>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 :>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... :>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! :>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 :>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) L.W.(Bill) ------ III replied in message 450E4BED.E758656A@cox.net: Like, you know you've ever sucked a sweater ---- than mine? God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:11:38 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III"
<----------@cox.net> Amazingly Replied without Prejudice below: Pirated Software & Troll Of course I was trolling when I wrote those words. "L.W.(Troll Boy) ------ III" You know I've never lied. And I don't use foul language, as that and cross posting are how I've close many of these anonymous coward's IPs. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ I saw my Doctor using a recorder, and asked about the program, Dragon Naturally Speaking and he gave me a copy, it works as advertised, a novelty that gets old. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ I have Auto Cad, too. BFD. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ They were bought and pay for, over four thousand for my Auto Cad, just not by me. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Fraudulent Tax Reporting My bills of sales are boxed in the year they were entered into my tax receipts, It would take hours to go though this year's receipts, let alone going back ten years. Of course you never making enough to pay taxes, you wouldn't know about that. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ He calls upon the Lord, who hears him not: You know I can relate to Jesus, as I've only done good, yet these little low lifes persist in persecuting me. Pray for them as they know not what they do. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ LIAR We don't take wimps like you. Some of our training: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...hine+gun&hl=en God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ It's not required, it's just fun to shoot seven hundred and fifty bucks a minute. I'd ask what you train with, but you being a felon, you may not own a firearm, nor vote. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ But we talked. Jesus and me, and we decided to make this group a crusade, and ------ the holy word of our Father. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Like Jesus, I write only the truth. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ I'm happy living my life, for my Lord, Jesus. You can hang with the perverts for all I care. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Wrong Again Fool! That means you're inbred Cajun. I have no french in my ancestry: http://www.genealogy.com/users/h/u/g.../0004tree.html God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0 mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Can't Spell That is a fact, I'm never wrong, except in spelling and grammar which have never been important to me. God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0 mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Is a Homo I am a homosexual. period! God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ L.W.(Bill) ------ III replied in message 450E4BED.E758656A@cox.net: Like, you know you've ever sucked a sweater ---- than mine? God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- Bigot My parent taught me to be truthful and to take responsibility for myself and family. I may be a bigot as I hate Japanese products. God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0 mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ :> Your 3.31 actually makes your first four gears a close ratio :>transmission. like I tried to do with my Corvette Muncie M-22 and 5.38s :> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O :>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ :> :> :>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message :>news:467c369f$0$18866$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshos ting.com... :>> Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do. :>> :>> I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it :>> drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get :>> 23 MPG highway. :>> :>> Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the :>> trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. :>> :>> If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... :>> :>> Mike :>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 :>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... :>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! :>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 :>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) L.W.(Bill) ------ III replied in message 450E4BED.E758656A@cox.net: Like, you know you've ever sucked a sweater ---- than mine? God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- |
Re: Easiest cheapest way to change to 4.11:1
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:11:38 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III"
<----------@cox.net> Amazingly Replied without Prejudice below: Pirated Software & Troll Of course I was trolling when I wrote those words. "L.W.(Troll Boy) ------ III" You know I've never lied. And I don't use foul language, as that and cross posting are how I've close many of these anonymous coward's IPs. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ I saw my Doctor using a recorder, and asked about the program, Dragon Naturally Speaking and he gave me a copy, it works as advertised, a novelty that gets old. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ I have Auto Cad, too. BFD. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ They were bought and pay for, over four thousand for my Auto Cad, just not by me. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Fraudulent Tax Reporting My bills of sales are boxed in the year they were entered into my tax receipts, It would take hours to go though this year's receipts, let alone going back ten years. Of course you never making enough to pay taxes, you wouldn't know about that. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ He calls upon the Lord, who hears him not: You know I can relate to Jesus, as I've only done good, yet these little low lifes persist in persecuting me. Pray for them as they know not what they do. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ LIAR We don't take wimps like you. Some of our training: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...hine+gun&hl=en God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ It's not required, it's just fun to shoot seven hundred and fifty bucks a minute. I'd ask what you train with, but you being a felon, you may not own a firearm, nor vote. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ But we talked. Jesus and me, and we decided to make this group a crusade, and ------ the holy word of our Father. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Like Jesus, I write only the truth. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ I'm happy living my life, for my Lord, Jesus. You can hang with the perverts for all I care. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Wrong Again Fool! That means you're inbred Cajun. I have no french in my ancestry: http://www.genealogy.com/users/h/u/g.../0004tree.html God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0 mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Can't Spell That is a fact, I'm never wrong, except in spelling and grammar which have never been important to me. God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0 mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Is a Homo I am a homosexual. period! God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ L.W.(Bill) ------ III replied in message 450E4BED.E758656A@cox.net: Like, you know you've ever sucked a sweater ---- than mine? God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- Bigot My parent taught me to be truthful and to take responsibility for myself and family. I may be a bigot as I hate Japanese products. God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0 mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ :> Your 3.31 actually makes your first four gears a close ratio :>transmission. like I tried to do with my Corvette Muncie M-22 and 5.38s :> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O :>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ :> :> :>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message :>news:467c369f$0$18866$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshos ting.com... :>> Yup, you need the whole shebang, not a cheap thing to do. :>> :>> I am lucky and can get by with my 3.31's and 33's, but if I use 5th, it :>> drinks gas. I say with a '4 speed' and forget about OD or 5th and get :>> 23 MPG highway. :>> :>> Been doing this for 10 years or so in my C7. I don't crawl rocks on the :>> trails I run so pretty much never even need first low. :>> :>> If I win the lotto I might think on new gears, but..... :>> :>> Mike :>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 :>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... :>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! :>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 :>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) L.W.(Bill) ------ III replied in message 450E4BED.E758656A@cox.net: Like, you know you've ever sucked a sweater ---- than mine? God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- |
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