Will Honea

How about a couple of bags of sand on the front bumper - with a string
back to the cab so you can release it on demand? My experience with
4WD on ice was that other than just getting going you're usually
better off with dropping to 2WD for steering purposes. Those wide
toboggans you have on don't help either <g> - large contact area, low
contact pressure.

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:24:03 UTC magicclaw@mac.com (Bob) wrote:

> OK, Well I'll just reply to all the people who posted responses to my
> original post.
>
> I don't want to invest in this like some nut. I'm just going out and
> racing on an iced-over lake (Georgetown, CO) for the fun of it.
> (Something to do with my Jeep in the winter when the trails are all
> closed/snowed in.) The races are held in 4 different classes, from
> bare-rubber to cheater class (cheaters can have up to 1.5" bolts in
> their tires!). I am simply racing in the bare-rubber class, so we all
> have the same disadvantage of crappy traction. Several at the races
> had differing opinions about airing up, airing down, and how much to
> air up/air down for the races. I agree that 25 lbs is not "airing
> down" per se, this is just a level that one of the people at the ice
> races in a previous weekend suggested I bring the pressure down to for
> the races. Then I've got others saying I should air up, above my
> normal 35 lbs; so I just thought I'd see what the consensus (or at
> least the varied opinions) of this group would be.
>
> So far, my experiences have been pretty terrible; my TJ doesn't want
> to follow the front wheels when I turn them...I got beaten by a
> friggin stock Ford Explorer last weekend. Of course, I realize that if
> I bought some tires specific for this, I would probably be much better
> off with some narrower tires. But again, I'm just doing this for fun;
> I can't afford two sets of tires and rims (nor do I have the room to
> store them), and I prefer the 33x1250s when wheeling in the
> summertime. Also, of course, this is the first year I've done this, so
> I'm sure driver ability is playing into this as well. But hey, I can
> at least try to get all the other variables taken care of first,
> right?
>
> Any other suggestions BESIDES adding spikes or changing to a different
> set of tires, please post away! ;-)
>
> Thanks,
> Bob
>
>
> "L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message news:<X3kQb.132534$I06.1175142@attbi_s01>...
> > Roughly 1/23/04 14:55, Bob's monkeys randomly typed:
> >
> > > Ok, I want to get everyone's heated opinion on whether I should air
> > > down, and if so, how much, when I go out to race my jeep on a frozen
> > > lake this weekend.
> >
> > What are the rules for adding studs, spikes, etc. or is this
> > gonna be a demolition derby on unstudded street tires?
> > On street tires, after the first coupla cars, the ice will
> > be covered with a snot-slick coating of ice and random
> > water.
> > >
> > > Mine is a 97 TJ with 4" of lift and 33x1250r15 BFG AT KO (brand new)
> > > tires, siped (yeah, I paid for the stupid siping that Discount Tire
> > > practically forces down your throat. I made him do it for half the
> > > price, though, at least ;-) )
> >
> > Airing down will keep the sipes and tread from adding roughly one
> > toilet paper brake pad's worth of traction once the surface
> > gets polished.
> >
> > We always aired up, somewhat over street pressure, but the
> > smart folks didn't race without at least studs. The really
> > smart ones used spiked tires...and with those the ice may
> > actually increase in traction over the course of the race.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I've heard equally strong opinions both for and against airing
> > > down for the race on the frozen lake. Some think I should, if
> > > anything, air up; presumably they think this will further reduce my
> > > contact patch, but give me more PSI at that contact patch to get
> > > traction. Others think I should air down to about 20 to 25 PSI (I
> > > regularly run at 35 PSI on the highway) in order to get more surface
> > > area of traction (albeit at a lower PSI at the contact patch).
> >
> > The jet propulsion from taking a whizz out the driver's
> > window will be pretty close to the difference of a 10 pound
> > air up/down on non-studded tires. That tiny octupus whizz
> > level of traction is best had by running near street pressure
> > or just slight up, to keep the tread from deforming, so the
> > sipes can work their futile attempts to keep the shiny side
> > up.
> >
> > >
> > > What do you all say to this? I know we've had this discussion with
> > > regard to inclement weather driving on roads, but never with the sole
> > > purpose of getting the best performance on nothing but an ice covered
> > > lake, with no regard for performance in any other situation...
> > >
> > > I'm currently leaning towards the airing down to 25 PSI idea...
> >
> > Buy a set of sacrificial tires and pick up several dozen
> > carbide bolts, 1 inch washers, 1 set of locknuts. Drill
> > thru your treads, put a 1 inch washer inside and outside
> > and use the locknut on the outside. Then coat the innards
> > of your tires with rubber or contact cement over the bolts.
> > Cut up one set of tubes and glue their outer half to the
> > inside of the tread area to protect the actual tubes
> > holding the pressure. It is much cheaper to buy spiked
> > ice racing tires these days than to make your own in this
> > manner. Probably more reliable too.


--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Bob

LOL. I wish! Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that'd violate just a rule
or two ;-)

Thanks for the ideas, guys. I had a feeling this was just going to be
a crapshoot at best, but it was worth a shot there might be some holy
grail answer (ok, not necessarily worth a shot, but what the hell?)

I did try to do the 4wd-2wd-4wd changing while driving in one of the
practices last weekend, but it didn't do as well as I hoped. I'll try
again this weekend. I probably need to get more practice timing the
changes between 4 and 2 wheel drive.

And yes, Mike, I have kidneys of steel! lol


"Will Honea" <whonea@codenet.net> wrote in message news:<JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-leHynYldTgv2@anon.none.net>...
> How about a couple of bags of sand on the front bumper - with a string
> back to the cab so you can release it on demand? My experience with
> 4WD on ice was that other than just getting going you're usually
> better off with dropping to 2WD for steering purposes. Those wide
> toboggans you have on don't help either <g> - large contact area, low
> contact pressure.
>

Bob

LOL. I wish! Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that'd violate just a rule
or two ;-)

Thanks for the ideas, guys. I had a feeling this was just going to be
a crapshoot at best, but it was worth a shot there might be some holy
grail answer (ok, not necessarily worth a shot, but what the hell?)

I did try to do the 4wd-2wd-4wd changing while driving in one of the
practices last weekend, but it didn't do as well as I hoped. I'll try
again this weekend. I probably need to get more practice timing the
changes between 4 and 2 wheel drive.

And yes, Mike, I have kidneys of steel! lol


"Will Honea" <whonea@codenet.net> wrote in message news:<JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-leHynYldTgv2@anon.none.net>...
> How about a couple of bags of sand on the front bumper - with a string
> back to the cab so you can release it on demand? My experience with
> 4WD on ice was that other than just getting going you're usually
> better off with dropping to 2WD for steering purposes. Those wide
> toboggans you have on don't help either <g> - large contact area, low
> contact pressure.
>

Bob

LOL. I wish! Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that'd violate just a rule
or two ;-)

Thanks for the ideas, guys. I had a feeling this was just going to be
a crapshoot at best, but it was worth a shot there might be some holy
grail answer (ok, not necessarily worth a shot, but what the hell?)

I did try to do the 4wd-2wd-4wd changing while driving in one of the
practices last weekend, but it didn't do as well as I hoped. I'll try
again this weekend. I probably need to get more practice timing the
changes between 4 and 2 wheel drive.

And yes, Mike, I have kidneys of steel! lol


"Will Honea" <whonea@codenet.net> wrote in message news:<JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-leHynYldTgv2@anon.none.net>...
> How about a couple of bags of sand on the front bumper - with a string
> back to the cab so you can release it on demand? My experience with
> 4WD on ice was that other than just getting going you're usually
> better off with dropping to 2WD for steering purposes. Those wide
> toboggans you have on don't help either <g> - large contact area, low
> contact pressure.
>

CRWLR

Switching in and out of 4HI should be completely seamless. There is no
"timing" in this change. The gears are all going at the same speeds in 2HI
and 4HI, so the change can easily be done literally at the flip of a switch.
The Jeep doesn't use a switch to do this job, but it could.




"Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
news:47b769ae.0401290734.2611bf4d@posting.google.c om...
> LOL. I wish! Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that'd violate just a rule
> or two ;-)
>
> Thanks for the ideas, guys. I had a feeling this was just going to be
> a crapshoot at best, but it was worth a shot there might be some holy
> grail answer (ok, not necessarily worth a shot, but what the hell?)
>
> I did try to do the 4wd-2wd-4wd changing while driving in one of the
> practices last weekend, but it didn't do as well as I hoped. I'll try
> again this weekend. I probably need to get more practice timing the
> changes between 4 and 2 wheel drive.
>
> And yes, Mike, I have kidneys of steel! lol
>
>
> "Will Honea" <whonea@codenet.net> wrote in message
news:<JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-leHynYldTgv2@anon.none.net>...
> > How about a couple of bags of sand on the front bumper - with a string
> > back to the cab so you can release it on demand? My experience with
> > 4WD on ice was that other than just getting going you're usually
> > better off with dropping to 2WD for steering purposes. Those wide
> > toboggans you have on don't help either <g> - large contact area, low
> > contact pressure.
> >

CRWLR

Switching in and out of 4HI should be completely seamless. There is no
"timing" in this change. The gears are all going at the same speeds in 2HI
and 4HI, so the change can easily be done literally at the flip of a switch.
The Jeep doesn't use a switch to do this job, but it could.




"Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
news:47b769ae.0401290734.2611bf4d@posting.google.c om...
> LOL. I wish! Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that'd violate just a rule
> or two ;-)
>
> Thanks for the ideas, guys. I had a feeling this was just going to be
> a crapshoot at best, but it was worth a shot there might be some holy
> grail answer (ok, not necessarily worth a shot, but what the hell?)
>
> I did try to do the 4wd-2wd-4wd changing while driving in one of the
> practices last weekend, but it didn't do as well as I hoped. I'll try
> again this weekend. I probably need to get more practice timing the
> changes between 4 and 2 wheel drive.
>
> And yes, Mike, I have kidneys of steel! lol
>
>
> "Will Honea" <whonea@codenet.net> wrote in message
news:<JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-leHynYldTgv2@anon.none.net>...
> > How about a couple of bags of sand on the front bumper - with a string
> > back to the cab so you can release it on demand? My experience with
> > 4WD on ice was that other than just getting going you're usually
> > better off with dropping to 2WD for steering purposes. Those wide
> > toboggans you have on don't help either <g> - large contact area, low
> > contact pressure.
> >

CRWLR

Switching in and out of 4HI should be completely seamless. There is no
"timing" in this change. The gears are all going at the same speeds in 2HI
and 4HI, so the change can easily be done literally at the flip of a switch.
The Jeep doesn't use a switch to do this job, but it could.




"Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
news:47b769ae.0401290734.2611bf4d@posting.google.c om...
> LOL. I wish! Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that'd violate just a rule
> or two ;-)
>
> Thanks for the ideas, guys. I had a feeling this was just going to be
> a crapshoot at best, but it was worth a shot there might be some holy
> grail answer (ok, not necessarily worth a shot, but what the hell?)
>
> I did try to do the 4wd-2wd-4wd changing while driving in one of the
> practices last weekend, but it didn't do as well as I hoped. I'll try
> again this weekend. I probably need to get more practice timing the
> changes between 4 and 2 wheel drive.
>
> And yes, Mike, I have kidneys of steel! lol
>
>
> "Will Honea" <whonea@codenet.net> wrote in message
news:<JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-leHynYldTgv2@anon.none.net>...
> > How about a couple of bags of sand on the front bumper - with a string
> > back to the cab so you can release it on demand? My experience with
> > 4WD on ice was that other than just getting going you're usually
> > better off with dropping to 2WD for steering purposes. Those wide
> > toboggans you have on don't help either <g> - large contact area, low
> > contact pressure.
> >

Will Honea

Slight quibble here: if you have the rear wheels spining like mad on
the ice and try to shift with the front end rolling or plowing, it's
gonna complain. The puny little syncro in the tc can't handle the
load if the front and rear drive shafts are turning at speed that are
too far apart. You have to basically just let off as you shift so
that the wheels are all turning close to the same.

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:04:11 UTC "CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Switching in and out of 4HI should be completely seamless. There is no
> "timing" in this change. The gears are all going at the same speeds in 2HI
> and 4HI, so the change can easily be done literally at the flip of a switch.
> The Jeep doesn't use a switch to do this job, but it could.
>
>
>
>
> "Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:47b769ae.0401290734.2611bf4d@posting.google.c om...
> > LOL. I wish! Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that'd violate just a rule
> > or two ;-)
> >
> > Thanks for the ideas, guys. I had a feeling this was just going to be
> > a crapshoot at best, but it was worth a shot there might be some holy
> > grail answer (ok, not necessarily worth a shot, but what the hell?)
> >
> > I did try to do the 4wd-2wd-4wd changing while driving in one of the
> > practices last weekend, but it didn't do as well as I hoped. I'll try
> > again this weekend. I probably need to get more practice timing the
> > changes between 4 and 2 wheel drive.
> >
> > And yes, Mike, I have kidneys of steel! lol
> >
> >
> > "Will Honea" <whonea@codenet.net> wrote in message
> news:<JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-leHynYldTgv2@anon.none.net>...
> > > How about a couple of bags of sand on the front bumper - with a string
> > > back to the cab so you can release it on demand? My experience with
> > > 4WD on ice was that other than just getting going you're usually
> > > better off with dropping to 2WD for steering purposes. Those wide
> > > toboggans you have on don't help either <g> - large contact area, low
> > > contact pressure.
> > >
>


--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Will Honea

Slight quibble here: if you have the rear wheels spining like mad on
the ice and try to shift with the front end rolling or plowing, it's
gonna complain. The puny little syncro in the tc can't handle the
load if the front and rear drive shafts are turning at speed that are
too far apart. You have to basically just let off as you shift so
that the wheels are all turning close to the same.

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:04:11 UTC "CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Switching in and out of 4HI should be completely seamless. There is no
> "timing" in this change. The gears are all going at the same speeds in 2HI
> and 4HI, so the change can easily be done literally at the flip of a switch.
> The Jeep doesn't use a switch to do this job, but it could.
>
>
>
>
> "Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:47b769ae.0401290734.2611bf4d@posting.google.c om...
> > LOL. I wish! Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that'd violate just a rule
> > or two ;-)
> >
> > Thanks for the ideas, guys. I had a feeling this was just going to be
> > a crapshoot at best, but it was worth a shot there might be some holy
> > grail answer (ok, not necessarily worth a shot, but what the hell?)
> >
> > I did try to do the 4wd-2wd-4wd changing while driving in one of the
> > practices last weekend, but it didn't do as well as I hoped. I'll try
> > again this weekend. I probably need to get more practice timing the
> > changes between 4 and 2 wheel drive.
> >
> > And yes, Mike, I have kidneys of steel! lol
> >
> >
> > "Will Honea" <whonea@codenet.net> wrote in message
> news:<JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-leHynYldTgv2@anon.none.net>...
> > > How about a couple of bags of sand on the front bumper - with a string
> > > back to the cab so you can release it on demand? My experience with
> > > 4WD on ice was that other than just getting going you're usually
> > > better off with dropping to 2WD for steering purposes. Those wide
> > > toboggans you have on don't help either <g> - large contact area, low
> > > contact pressure.
> > >
>


--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Will Honea

Slight quibble here: if you have the rear wheels spining like mad on
the ice and try to shift with the front end rolling or plowing, it's
gonna complain. The puny little syncro in the tc can't handle the
load if the front and rear drive shafts are turning at speed that are
too far apart. You have to basically just let off as you shift so
that the wheels are all turning close to the same.

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:04:11 UTC "CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Switching in and out of 4HI should be completely seamless. There is no
> "timing" in this change. The gears are all going at the same speeds in 2HI
> and 4HI, so the change can easily be done literally at the flip of a switch.
> The Jeep doesn't use a switch to do this job, but it could.
>
>
>
>
> "Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:47b769ae.0401290734.2611bf4d@posting.google.c om...
> > LOL. I wish! Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that'd violate just a rule
> > or two ;-)
> >
> > Thanks for the ideas, guys. I had a feeling this was just going to be
> > a crapshoot at best, but it was worth a shot there might be some holy
> > grail answer (ok, not necessarily worth a shot, but what the hell?)
> >
> > I did try to do the 4wd-2wd-4wd changing while driving in one of the
> > practices last weekend, but it didn't do as well as I hoped. I'll try
> > again this weekend. I probably need to get more practice timing the
> > changes between 4 and 2 wheel drive.
> >
> > And yes, Mike, I have kidneys of steel! lol
> >
> >
> > "Will Honea" <whonea@codenet.net> wrote in message
> news:<JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-leHynYldTgv2@anon.none.net>...
> > > How about a couple of bags of sand on the front bumper - with a string
> > > back to the cab so you can release it on demand? My experience with
> > > 4WD on ice was that other than just getting going you're usually
> > > better off with dropping to 2WD for steering purposes. Those wide
> > > toboggans you have on don't help either <g> - large contact area, low
> > > contact pressure.
> > >
>


--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>