On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:13:34 -0600, "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote:

>Woodsy did pass the time by typing:
>> Transmission controll unit?
>
>Yep
>
>> I got desperate and took my Jeep to the dealer.
>> It is running bad, pulling the #1 injector wire does not
>> even affect idle, #4 can be felt to make a small differance, but
>> not as much as the other 4.
>
>Bad #1 injector possible or bad ground. An engine analyzer hooked to
>the injectors will tell for certain. Find a better shop that can do
>an injector leak-down test ($65 or so). That will tell you for certain
>if those injectors are stuck. You could also get them to run a motorvac
>on it. http://www.motorvac.com/ (expect that to cost about $120) the
>motorvac runs high strength cleaner through the rail and cleans the whole
>system (runs for about 20-30 min).

Prior to dropping it off, I jumpered block to chassis, block to battery, chassis to battery
with jumper cables, it made no difference. I had also pulled and reinstalled all the
connectors that I could find.

>
>> After 5 bill hours, the report is not good.
>
>I would tend to believe the dealership mechanic your dealing with is a moron.

confirmed by the statement "its opening day, the experianced tech went hunting"

>
>> the modules are not communicating with each other(obdII,BCM,ECM,TCM)
>> and the dealer is at the start of the "lets replace" phase. Or it could be a
>> broken
>> wire and "take many hours to trouble shoot".
>
>And we all know replacing $bigbuck parts are cheaper than tracking wires
>even if the wire remains broken. ;)
>
>Went through this once with a "new" mechanic. Went all over the ABS system
>and couldn't find the fault. Till the greybeard came by and muttered that we
>should clean the connector and stop f--king around and taking up garage space. :)
>I couldn't get angry since I was out there trying to figure it out myself even
>though the obvious was glaring right into my face.
>
>> My point of view...
>> Ran great, parked, wife drives 40 miles, gets gas, parks it back where I left
>> it.
>> I get in next morning, runs bad, from first fire on I could tell something is
>> not
>> correct. Tried it for a day or 2,some drygas,some injector bandaid, and it
>> sputtered home, parked
>> and next day, it fired up and ran smooth,(after the injector cleaner)for a
>> while, I ran the tank out, and looked at pulling the fuel rail, the wires and
>> clips seem in good shape, but I chicken'd out.
>> off to the dealer it went, and 2 days later??? I have doubts.
>> i know this is not a lot of information, any help or comments?
>
>You got a tank of crapoline that might have clogged your filter and plugged the
>injector. Have you poured out any gas into a container?

no on the gas, I had let it run out,with can in back, hoping it would kill it or fix it.
did neither. The injector cleaner "treats 32 gallons" in 2 gallons of gas did make it
run great the next day, for about 40 miles, till I filled it up again.

>
>If it is crapoline you should contact the gas station. Some times they will
>pay the damages. (A local Sinclair paid for a friends BMW after he let the
>tanks get so low they sucked muck) ..long story, happy ending..

Cheap gas, not a lot of hope on this note, from the reservation.

Then again, if it runs great, and has not had the #1 injector replaces, it was in the wiring.
(can injectors be cleaned after they have failed?)

Thanks again, off to work and the dealership.

Frank


--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

 

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:13:34 -0600, "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote:

>Woodsy did pass the time by typing:
>> Transmission controll unit?
>
>Yep
>
>> I got desperate and took my Jeep to the dealer.
>> It is running bad, pulling the #1 injector wire does not
>> even affect idle, #4 can be felt to make a small differance, but
>> not as much as the other 4.
>
>Bad #1 injector possible or bad ground. An engine analyzer hooked to
>the injectors will tell for certain. Find a better shop that can do
>an injector leak-down test ($65 or so). That will tell you for certain
>if those injectors are stuck. You could also get them to run a motorvac
>on it. http://www.motorvac.com/ (expect that to cost about $120) the
>motorvac runs high strength cleaner through the rail and cleans the whole
>system (runs for about 20-30 min).

Prior to dropping it off, I jumpered block to chassis, block to battery, chassis to battery
with jumper cables, it made no difference. I had also pulled and reinstalled all the
connectors that I could find.

>
>> After 5 bill hours, the report is not good.
>
>I would tend to believe the dealership mechanic your dealing with is a moron.

confirmed by the statement "its opening day, the experianced tech went hunting"

>
>> the modules are not communicating with each other(obdII,BCM,ECM,TCM)
>> and the dealer is at the start of the "lets replace" phase. Or it could be a
>> broken
>> wire and "take many hours to trouble shoot".
>
>And we all know replacing $bigbuck parts are cheaper than tracking wires
>even if the wire remains broken. ;)
>
>Went through this once with a "new" mechanic. Went all over the ABS system
>and couldn't find the fault. Till the greybeard came by and muttered that we
>should clean the connector and stop f--king around and taking up garage space. :)
>I couldn't get angry since I was out there trying to figure it out myself even
>though the obvious was glaring right into my face.
>
>> My point of view...
>> Ran great, parked, wife drives 40 miles, gets gas, parks it back where I left
>> it.
>> I get in next morning, runs bad, from first fire on I could tell something is
>> not
>> correct. Tried it for a day or 2,some drygas,some injector bandaid, and it
>> sputtered home, parked
>> and next day, it fired up and ran smooth,(after the injector cleaner)for a
>> while, I ran the tank out, and looked at pulling the fuel rail, the wires and
>> clips seem in good shape, but I chicken'd out.
>> off to the dealer it went, and 2 days later??? I have doubts.
>> i know this is not a lot of information, any help or comments?
>
>You got a tank of crapoline that might have clogged your filter and plugged the
>injector. Have you poured out any gas into a container?

no on the gas, I had let it run out,with can in back, hoping it would kill it or fix it.
did neither. The injector cleaner "treats 32 gallons" in 2 gallons of gas did make it
run great the next day, for about 40 miles, till I filled it up again.

>
>If it is crapoline you should contact the gas station. Some times they will
>pay the damages. (A local Sinclair paid for a friends BMW after he let the
>tanks get so low they sucked muck) ..long story, happy ending..

Cheap gas, not a lot of hope on this note, from the reservation.

Then again, if it runs great, and has not had the #1 injector replaces, it was in the wiring.
(can injectors be cleaned after they have failed?)

Thanks again, off to work and the dealership.

Frank


--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

 

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:13:34 -0600, "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote:

>Woodsy did pass the time by typing:
>> Transmission controll unit?
>
>Yep
>
>> I got desperate and took my Jeep to the dealer.
>> It is running bad, pulling the #1 injector wire does not
>> even affect idle, #4 can be felt to make a small differance, but
>> not as much as the other 4.
>
>Bad #1 injector possible or bad ground. An engine analyzer hooked to
>the injectors will tell for certain. Find a better shop that can do
>an injector leak-down test ($65 or so). That will tell you for certain
>if those injectors are stuck. You could also get them to run a motorvac
>on it. http://www.motorvac.com/ (expect that to cost about $120) the
>motorvac runs high strength cleaner through the rail and cleans the whole
>system (runs for about 20-30 min).

Prior to dropping it off, I jumpered block to chassis, block to battery, chassis to battery
with jumper cables, it made no difference. I had also pulled and reinstalled all the
connectors that I could find.

>
>> After 5 bill hours, the report is not good.
>
>I would tend to believe the dealership mechanic your dealing with is a moron.

confirmed by the statement "its opening day, the experianced tech went hunting"

>
>> the modules are not communicating with each other(obdII,BCM,ECM,TCM)
>> and the dealer is at the start of the "lets replace" phase. Or it could be a
>> broken
>> wire and "take many hours to trouble shoot".
>
>And we all know replacing $bigbuck parts are cheaper than tracking wires
>even if the wire remains broken. ;)
>
>Went through this once with a "new" mechanic. Went all over the ABS system
>and couldn't find the fault. Till the greybeard came by and muttered that we
>should clean the connector and stop f--king around and taking up garage space. :)
>I couldn't get angry since I was out there trying to figure it out myself even
>though the obvious was glaring right into my face.
>
>> My point of view...
>> Ran great, parked, wife drives 40 miles, gets gas, parks it back where I left
>> it.
>> I get in next morning, runs bad, from first fire on I could tell something is
>> not
>> correct. Tried it for a day or 2,some drygas,some injector bandaid, and it
>> sputtered home, parked
>> and next day, it fired up and ran smooth,(after the injector cleaner)for a
>> while, I ran the tank out, and looked at pulling the fuel rail, the wires and
>> clips seem in good shape, but I chicken'd out.
>> off to the dealer it went, and 2 days later??? I have doubts.
>> i know this is not a lot of information, any help or comments?
>
>You got a tank of crapoline that might have clogged your filter and plugged the
>injector. Have you poured out any gas into a container?

no on the gas, I had let it run out,with can in back, hoping it would kill it or fix it.
did neither. The injector cleaner "treats 32 gallons" in 2 gallons of gas did make it
run great the next day, for about 40 miles, till I filled it up again.

>
>If it is crapoline you should contact the gas station. Some times they will
>pay the damages. (A local Sinclair paid for a friends BMW after he let the
>tanks get so low they sucked muck) ..long story, happy ending..

Cheap gas, not a lot of hope on this note, from the reservation.

Then again, if it runs great, and has not had the #1 injector replaces, it was in the wiring.
(can injectors be cleaned after they have failed?)

Thanks again, off to work and the dealership.

Frank


--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

 

Woodsy did pass the time by typing:

> Then again, if it runs great, and has not had the #1 injector replaces, it
> was in the wiring. (can injectors be cleaned after they have failed?)

Depends on the failure. But usually when you disconnect one injector and nothing
changes that indicates it's clogged. It is possible for a clog to dissolve.

good luck.

 

Woodsy did pass the time by typing:

> Then again, if it runs great, and has not had the #1 injector replaces, it
> was in the wiring. (can injectors be cleaned after they have failed?)

Depends on the failure. But usually when you disconnect one injector and nothing
changes that indicates it's clogged. It is possible for a clog to dissolve.

good luck.

 

Woodsy did pass the time by typing:

> Then again, if it runs great, and has not had the #1 injector replaces, it
> was in the wiring. (can injectors be cleaned after they have failed?)

Depends on the failure. But usually when you disconnect one injector and nothing
changes that indicates it's clogged. It is possible for a clog to dissolve.

good luck.

 

Woodsy wrote:
>
>
> Cheap gas, not a lot of hope on this note, from the reservation.
>

My guess is you either got a water mix or a diesel mix instead of
gasoline. Someone could have poured some diesel into the station's big
tank or a flood/rain with the top loose or off the tank.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

 

Woodsy wrote:
>
>
> Cheap gas, not a lot of hope on this note, from the reservation.
>

My guess is you either got a water mix or a diesel mix instead of
gasoline. Someone could have poured some diesel into the station's big
tank or a flood/rain with the top loose or off the tank.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

 

Woodsy wrote:
>
>
> Cheap gas, not a lot of hope on this note, from the reservation.
>

My guess is you either got a water mix or a diesel mix instead of
gasoline. Someone could have poured some diesel into the station's big
tank or a flood/rain with the top loose or off the tank.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

 

Woodsy proclaimed:

> Transmission controll unit?

Yes, but I'm trying to think how it could cause rough idle unless
it locked up everything.

> I got desperate and took my Jeep to the dealer.
> It is running bad, pulling the #1 injector wire does not
> even affect idle, #4 can be felt to make a small differance, but
> not as much as the other 4. After 5 bill hours, the report is not good.
> the modules are not communicating with each other(obdII,BCM,ECM,TCM)
> and the dealer is at the start of the "lets replace" phase. Or it could be a broken
> wire and "take many hours to trouble shoot".

Crank position sensor, dirty throttle body in that order?

Can't imagine why a general diagnosis of the modules are not
communicating with each other and a mechanic with a pulse would
be all that difficult to troubleshoot.

>
> My point of view...
> Ran great, parked, wife drives 40 miles, gets gas, parks it back where I left it.
> I get in next morning, runs bad, from first fire on I could tell something is not
> correct. Tried it for a day or 2,some drygas,some injector bandaid, and it sputtered home, parked
> and next day, it fired up and ran smooth,(after the injector cleaner)for a while, I ran the tank out, and looked
> at pulling the fuel rail, the wires and clips seem in good shape, but I chicken'd out.
> off to the dealer it went, and 2 days later??? I have doubts.
> i know this is not a lot of information, any help or comments?
>
> Frank
>
>