Dj5-F electrical problems
#81
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dj5-F electrical problems
Agreed....... the good thing is this DJ is pre-computer so everything will
be plain mechanical and electrical.
All he needs is a 12v test light and some wire to check almost anything we
need to test.
"Lee Ayrton" <layrton@REMOVE_ME.panix.com> wrote in message
news:dvi1nu$nd5$1@reader2.panix.com...
> Don't it though. Part of the art of diagnosis is persistent, deliberate
> questioning.
>
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
>> This reminds me of being an EMT, trying to get people to say what is
>> actually wrong with them, why they called, what exactly are we doing at
>> your
>> house at 2:00 AM, etc. Sometimes, you have to ask, which person is the
>> sick
>> one. It is not always obvious.
>>
>> Earle
>>
>> "billy ray" <billy_ray@fuseSPAM.net> wrote in message
>> news:685b5$441c5309$4831b233$5616@FUSE.NET...
>>
>>>Okay, now we are getting somewhere but you still haven't answered if the
>>>engine will actually start and keep running.
>>>"Yes" (pick one) 'No'
>>>
>>>I suspect *not* from your descriptions.
>>>
>>>Please provide more detailed descriptions of what EXACTLY was done and
>>
>> what
>>
>>>the result, if any, was...
>>>
>>>Is there 12v power to the starter relay from the ignition switch? It
>>>will
>>>not be a big battery cable but a small wire around 14 gauge.
>>>
>>>Do you hear a 'click' when you turn the key?
>>>
>>>Do you have any spark when cranking?
>>>
>>>By 'filed clean" do you mean the copper lugs that bolt to the starter?
>>
>> What
>>
>>>about the lead terminals at the battery end. They are best cleaned with
>>>a
>>>wire brush.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Jacob" <zorak_teh_slayer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1142703450.559614.103030@p10g2000cwp.googl egroups.com...
>>>
>>>>Yes its a 3.8l I6 And by jump it i mean taking the starter moter leed
>>>>cable and touching it to the posative terminal on the battery Voila it
>>>>cranks. When i turn the key after reconnecting the leed, nothing
>>>>happens at all.
>>>>Jacob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> I recently aquired a 78 Dj5 F from a freind. It was running great
>>
>> a
>>
>>>>>>year ago but he started going to school and didn't have time for it
>>
>> so
>>
>>>>>>i got it. When i turn the key nothing happens not a squeek. the
>>
>> battery
>>
>>>>>>is connected right (neg to engine block) and when i jump it the
>>
>> engine
>>
>>>>>>cranks, so i know that the starter and battery work. Could someone
>>
>> help
>>
>>>>>>me or give a little advise.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
be plain mechanical and electrical.
All he needs is a 12v test light and some wire to check almost anything we
need to test.
"Lee Ayrton" <layrton@REMOVE_ME.panix.com> wrote in message
news:dvi1nu$nd5$1@reader2.panix.com...
> Don't it though. Part of the art of diagnosis is persistent, deliberate
> questioning.
>
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
>> This reminds me of being an EMT, trying to get people to say what is
>> actually wrong with them, why they called, what exactly are we doing at
>> your
>> house at 2:00 AM, etc. Sometimes, you have to ask, which person is the
>> sick
>> one. It is not always obvious.
>>
>> Earle
>>
>> "billy ray" <billy_ray@fuseSPAM.net> wrote in message
>> news:685b5$441c5309$4831b233$5616@FUSE.NET...
>>
>>>Okay, now we are getting somewhere but you still haven't answered if the
>>>engine will actually start and keep running.
>>>"Yes" (pick one) 'No'
>>>
>>>I suspect *not* from your descriptions.
>>>
>>>Please provide more detailed descriptions of what EXACTLY was done and
>>
>> what
>>
>>>the result, if any, was...
>>>
>>>Is there 12v power to the starter relay from the ignition switch? It
>>>will
>>>not be a big battery cable but a small wire around 14 gauge.
>>>
>>>Do you hear a 'click' when you turn the key?
>>>
>>>Do you have any spark when cranking?
>>>
>>>By 'filed clean" do you mean the copper lugs that bolt to the starter?
>>
>> What
>>
>>>about the lead terminals at the battery end. They are best cleaned with
>>>a
>>>wire brush.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Jacob" <zorak_teh_slayer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1142703450.559614.103030@p10g2000cwp.googl egroups.com...
>>>
>>>>Yes its a 3.8l I6 And by jump it i mean taking the starter moter leed
>>>>cable and touching it to the posative terminal on the battery Voila it
>>>>cranks. When i turn the key after reconnecting the leed, nothing
>>>>happens at all.
>>>>Jacob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> I recently aquired a 78 Dj5 F from a freind. It was running great
>>
>> a
>>
>>>>>>year ago but he started going to school and didn't have time for it
>>
>> so
>>
>>>>>>i got it. When i turn the key nothing happens not a squeek. the
>>
>> battery
>>
>>>>>>is connected right (neg to engine block) and when i jump it the
>>
>> engine
>>
>>>>>>cranks, so i know that the starter and battery work. Could someone
>>
>> help
>>
>>>>>>me or give a little advise.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
#82
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dj5-F electrical problems
Okay, now we're getting someplace. But first, Jacob, I have to tell you
that we'll be delighted to help you /but/ you have to answer all the
questions we ask. I'm not saying this to be persnickety. We ask them
because they tell us what we need to know so we can help you fix your
Jeep without making you tinger with a hundered different things, and
sometimes the way folks report something and what we think that they
said aren't the same thing. If someone asks you three questions about
the battery cables and you answer only one there's still two things that
could be broken.
I see that you are posting from Google Groups. That's fine. Here's a
tip that should make things easier: Instead of hitting the <reply>
button at the bottom of the message, go up to the top of the message and
click on <show Options>. From there hit the <reply> button and Google
should quote the entire message in for you. That way you can be sure
you answer all the questions. Even though we usually top-post here feel
free to answer in-line so you can make thing clearer for us.
(In-line replies follow)
> Yes its a 3.8l I6
A tip: Jeep folks won't know from Litres on AMC engines. They were
always known by their cubic inch displacement (When you get into
Chrysler engines it reverses, no one knows the c.i. of a 4.0L engine).
What you've got is the 232ci, the older brother of the 258. Same block,
same everything except the crank and the connecting rods, really, so
when you go looking for parts feel free to pick from a 258 engine.
You'll need this stuff eventually:
Engine size ID from the casting numbers here:
<URL:http://www.butlers-a1.com/amcm.htm>
Engine size and year ID from the Engine Day Build Code stamped on a
machined pad between the 2nd and 3rd spark plugs:
<URL:http://www.amcrc.com/tech/engine.html>
> And by jump it i mean taking the starter moter leed
> cable and touching it to the posative terminal on the battery Voila it
> cranks. When i turn the key after reconnecting the leed, nothing
> happens at all.
OK, that's good. We know that your starter works and the battery is
charged. What we don't know is how the cable from the starter relay to
the battery is. From here follow Mike's instructions about the starter
relay -- a small black cylinder on a metal bracket bolted to the right
fender. Don't scoff at the advice about checking the ground
connections, especially under the relay -- bad grounds are a known
problem with Jeeps and cause a variety of problems. Like Mike said, if
the relay can't find ground through the fender it won't close and the
starter won't energize.
Let us know how you make out.
that we'll be delighted to help you /but/ you have to answer all the
questions we ask. I'm not saying this to be persnickety. We ask them
because they tell us what we need to know so we can help you fix your
Jeep without making you tinger with a hundered different things, and
sometimes the way folks report something and what we think that they
said aren't the same thing. If someone asks you three questions about
the battery cables and you answer only one there's still two things that
could be broken.
I see that you are posting from Google Groups. That's fine. Here's a
tip that should make things easier: Instead of hitting the <reply>
button at the bottom of the message, go up to the top of the message and
click on <show Options>. From there hit the <reply> button and Google
should quote the entire message in for you. That way you can be sure
you answer all the questions. Even though we usually top-post here feel
free to answer in-line so you can make thing clearer for us.
(In-line replies follow)
> Yes its a 3.8l I6
A tip: Jeep folks won't know from Litres on AMC engines. They were
always known by their cubic inch displacement (When you get into
Chrysler engines it reverses, no one knows the c.i. of a 4.0L engine).
What you've got is the 232ci, the older brother of the 258. Same block,
same everything except the crank and the connecting rods, really, so
when you go looking for parts feel free to pick from a 258 engine.
You'll need this stuff eventually:
Engine size ID from the casting numbers here:
<URL:http://www.butlers-a1.com/amcm.htm>
Engine size and year ID from the Engine Day Build Code stamped on a
machined pad between the 2nd and 3rd spark plugs:
<URL:http://www.amcrc.com/tech/engine.html>
> And by jump it i mean taking the starter moter leed
> cable and touching it to the posative terminal on the battery Voila it
> cranks. When i turn the key after reconnecting the leed, nothing
> happens at all.
OK, that's good. We know that your starter works and the battery is
charged. What we don't know is how the cable from the starter relay to
the battery is. From here follow Mike's instructions about the starter
relay -- a small black cylinder on a metal bracket bolted to the right
fender. Don't scoff at the advice about checking the ground
connections, especially under the relay -- bad grounds are a known
problem with Jeeps and cause a variety of problems. Like Mike said, if
the relay can't find ground through the fender it won't close and the
starter won't energize.
Let us know how you make out.
#83
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dj5-F electrical problems
Okay, now we're getting someplace. But first, Jacob, I have to tell you
that we'll be delighted to help you /but/ you have to answer all the
questions we ask. I'm not saying this to be persnickety. We ask them
because they tell us what we need to know so we can help you fix your
Jeep without making you tinger with a hundered different things, and
sometimes the way folks report something and what we think that they
said aren't the same thing. If someone asks you three questions about
the battery cables and you answer only one there's still two things that
could be broken.
I see that you are posting from Google Groups. That's fine. Here's a
tip that should make things easier: Instead of hitting the <reply>
button at the bottom of the message, go up to the top of the message and
click on <show Options>. From there hit the <reply> button and Google
should quote the entire message in for you. That way you can be sure
you answer all the questions. Even though we usually top-post here feel
free to answer in-line so you can make thing clearer for us.
(In-line replies follow)
> Yes its a 3.8l I6
A tip: Jeep folks won't know from Litres on AMC engines. They were
always known by their cubic inch displacement (When you get into
Chrysler engines it reverses, no one knows the c.i. of a 4.0L engine).
What you've got is the 232ci, the older brother of the 258. Same block,
same everything except the crank and the connecting rods, really, so
when you go looking for parts feel free to pick from a 258 engine.
You'll need this stuff eventually:
Engine size ID from the casting numbers here:
<URL:http://www.butlers-a1.com/amcm.htm>
Engine size and year ID from the Engine Day Build Code stamped on a
machined pad between the 2nd and 3rd spark plugs:
<URL:http://www.amcrc.com/tech/engine.html>
> And by jump it i mean taking the starter moter leed
> cable and touching it to the posative terminal on the battery Voila it
> cranks. When i turn the key after reconnecting the leed, nothing
> happens at all.
OK, that's good. We know that your starter works and the battery is
charged. What we don't know is how the cable from the starter relay to
the battery is. From here follow Mike's instructions about the starter
relay -- a small black cylinder on a metal bracket bolted to the right
fender. Don't scoff at the advice about checking the ground
connections, especially under the relay -- bad grounds are a known
problem with Jeeps and cause a variety of problems. Like Mike said, if
the relay can't find ground through the fender it won't close and the
starter won't energize.
Let us know how you make out.
that we'll be delighted to help you /but/ you have to answer all the
questions we ask. I'm not saying this to be persnickety. We ask them
because they tell us what we need to know so we can help you fix your
Jeep without making you tinger with a hundered different things, and
sometimes the way folks report something and what we think that they
said aren't the same thing. If someone asks you three questions about
the battery cables and you answer only one there's still two things that
could be broken.
I see that you are posting from Google Groups. That's fine. Here's a
tip that should make things easier: Instead of hitting the <reply>
button at the bottom of the message, go up to the top of the message and
click on <show Options>. From there hit the <reply> button and Google
should quote the entire message in for you. That way you can be sure
you answer all the questions. Even though we usually top-post here feel
free to answer in-line so you can make thing clearer for us.
(In-line replies follow)
> Yes its a 3.8l I6
A tip: Jeep folks won't know from Litres on AMC engines. They were
always known by their cubic inch displacement (When you get into
Chrysler engines it reverses, no one knows the c.i. of a 4.0L engine).
What you've got is the 232ci, the older brother of the 258. Same block,
same everything except the crank and the connecting rods, really, so
when you go looking for parts feel free to pick from a 258 engine.
You'll need this stuff eventually:
Engine size ID from the casting numbers here:
<URL:http://www.butlers-a1.com/amcm.htm>
Engine size and year ID from the Engine Day Build Code stamped on a
machined pad between the 2nd and 3rd spark plugs:
<URL:http://www.amcrc.com/tech/engine.html>
> And by jump it i mean taking the starter moter leed
> cable and touching it to the posative terminal on the battery Voila it
> cranks. When i turn the key after reconnecting the leed, nothing
> happens at all.
OK, that's good. We know that your starter works and the battery is
charged. What we don't know is how the cable from the starter relay to
the battery is. From here follow Mike's instructions about the starter
relay -- a small black cylinder on a metal bracket bolted to the right
fender. Don't scoff at the advice about checking the ground
connections, especially under the relay -- bad grounds are a known
problem with Jeeps and cause a variety of problems. Like Mike said, if
the relay can't find ground through the fender it won't close and the
starter won't energize.
Let us know how you make out.
#84
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dj5-F electrical problems
Okay, now we're getting someplace. But first, Jacob, I have to tell you
that we'll be delighted to help you /but/ you have to answer all the
questions we ask. I'm not saying this to be persnickety. We ask them
because they tell us what we need to know so we can help you fix your
Jeep without making you tinger with a hundered different things, and
sometimes the way folks report something and what we think that they
said aren't the same thing. If someone asks you three questions about
the battery cables and you answer only one there's still two things that
could be broken.
I see that you are posting from Google Groups. That's fine. Here's a
tip that should make things easier: Instead of hitting the <reply>
button at the bottom of the message, go up to the top of the message and
click on <show Options>. From there hit the <reply> button and Google
should quote the entire message in for you. That way you can be sure
you answer all the questions. Even though we usually top-post here feel
free to answer in-line so you can make thing clearer for us.
(In-line replies follow)
> Yes its a 3.8l I6
A tip: Jeep folks won't know from Litres on AMC engines. They were
always known by their cubic inch displacement (When you get into
Chrysler engines it reverses, no one knows the c.i. of a 4.0L engine).
What you've got is the 232ci, the older brother of the 258. Same block,
same everything except the crank and the connecting rods, really, so
when you go looking for parts feel free to pick from a 258 engine.
You'll need this stuff eventually:
Engine size ID from the casting numbers here:
<URL:http://www.butlers-a1.com/amcm.htm>
Engine size and year ID from the Engine Day Build Code stamped on a
machined pad between the 2nd and 3rd spark plugs:
<URL:http://www.amcrc.com/tech/engine.html>
> And by jump it i mean taking the starter moter leed
> cable and touching it to the posative terminal on the battery Voila it
> cranks. When i turn the key after reconnecting the leed, nothing
> happens at all.
OK, that's good. We know that your starter works and the battery is
charged. What we don't know is how the cable from the starter relay to
the battery is. From here follow Mike's instructions about the starter
relay -- a small black cylinder on a metal bracket bolted to the right
fender. Don't scoff at the advice about checking the ground
connections, especially under the relay -- bad grounds are a known
problem with Jeeps and cause a variety of problems. Like Mike said, if
the relay can't find ground through the fender it won't close and the
starter won't energize.
Let us know how you make out.
that we'll be delighted to help you /but/ you have to answer all the
questions we ask. I'm not saying this to be persnickety. We ask them
because they tell us what we need to know so we can help you fix your
Jeep without making you tinger with a hundered different things, and
sometimes the way folks report something and what we think that they
said aren't the same thing. If someone asks you three questions about
the battery cables and you answer only one there's still two things that
could be broken.
I see that you are posting from Google Groups. That's fine. Here's a
tip that should make things easier: Instead of hitting the <reply>
button at the bottom of the message, go up to the top of the message and
click on <show Options>. From there hit the <reply> button and Google
should quote the entire message in for you. That way you can be sure
you answer all the questions. Even though we usually top-post here feel
free to answer in-line so you can make thing clearer for us.
(In-line replies follow)
> Yes its a 3.8l I6
A tip: Jeep folks won't know from Litres on AMC engines. They were
always known by their cubic inch displacement (When you get into
Chrysler engines it reverses, no one knows the c.i. of a 4.0L engine).
What you've got is the 232ci, the older brother of the 258. Same block,
same everything except the crank and the connecting rods, really, so
when you go looking for parts feel free to pick from a 258 engine.
You'll need this stuff eventually:
Engine size ID from the casting numbers here:
<URL:http://www.butlers-a1.com/amcm.htm>
Engine size and year ID from the Engine Day Build Code stamped on a
machined pad between the 2nd and 3rd spark plugs:
<URL:http://www.amcrc.com/tech/engine.html>
> And by jump it i mean taking the starter moter leed
> cable and touching it to the posative terminal on the battery Voila it
> cranks. When i turn the key after reconnecting the leed, nothing
> happens at all.
OK, that's good. We know that your starter works and the battery is
charged. What we don't know is how the cable from the starter relay to
the battery is. From here follow Mike's instructions about the starter
relay -- a small black cylinder on a metal bracket bolted to the right
fender. Don't scoff at the advice about checking the ground
connections, especially under the relay -- bad grounds are a known
problem with Jeeps and cause a variety of problems. Like Mike said, if
the relay can't find ground through the fender it won't close and the
starter won't energize.
Let us know how you make out.
#85
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dj5-F electrical problems
Okay, now we're getting someplace. But first, Jacob, I have to tell you
that we'll be delighted to help you /but/ you have to answer all the
questions we ask. I'm not saying this to be persnickety. We ask them
because they tell us what we need to know so we can help you fix your
Jeep without making you tinger with a hundered different things, and
sometimes the way folks report something and what we think that they
said aren't the same thing. If someone asks you three questions about
the battery cables and you answer only one there's still two things that
could be broken.
I see that you are posting from Google Groups. That's fine. Here's a
tip that should make things easier: Instead of hitting the <reply>
button at the bottom of the message, go up to the top of the message and
click on <show Options>. From there hit the <reply> button and Google
should quote the entire message in for you. That way you can be sure
you answer all the questions. Even though we usually top-post here feel
free to answer in-line so you can make thing clearer for us.
(In-line replies follow)
> Yes its a 3.8l I6
A tip: Jeep folks won't know from Litres on AMC engines. They were
always known by their cubic inch displacement (When you get into
Chrysler engines it reverses, no one knows the c.i. of a 4.0L engine).
What you've got is the 232ci, the older brother of the 258. Same block,
same everything except the crank and the connecting rods, really, so
when you go looking for parts feel free to pick from a 258 engine.
You'll need this stuff eventually:
Engine size ID from the casting numbers here:
<URL:http://www.butlers-a1.com/amcm.htm>
Engine size and year ID from the Engine Day Build Code stamped on a
machined pad between the 2nd and 3rd spark plugs:
<URL:http://www.amcrc.com/tech/engine.html>
> And by jump it i mean taking the starter moter leed
> cable and touching it to the posative terminal on the battery Voila it
> cranks. When i turn the key after reconnecting the leed, nothing
> happens at all.
OK, that's good. We know that your starter works and the battery is
charged. What we don't know is how the cable from the starter relay to
the battery is. From here follow Mike's instructions about the starter
relay -- a small black cylinder on a metal bracket bolted to the right
fender. Don't scoff at the advice about checking the ground
connections, especially under the relay -- bad grounds are a known
problem with Jeeps and cause a variety of problems. Like Mike said, if
the relay can't find ground through the fender it won't close and the
starter won't energize.
Let us know how you make out.
that we'll be delighted to help you /but/ you have to answer all the
questions we ask. I'm not saying this to be persnickety. We ask them
because they tell us what we need to know so we can help you fix your
Jeep without making you tinger with a hundered different things, and
sometimes the way folks report something and what we think that they
said aren't the same thing. If someone asks you three questions about
the battery cables and you answer only one there's still two things that
could be broken.
I see that you are posting from Google Groups. That's fine. Here's a
tip that should make things easier: Instead of hitting the <reply>
button at the bottom of the message, go up to the top of the message and
click on <show Options>. From there hit the <reply> button and Google
should quote the entire message in for you. That way you can be sure
you answer all the questions. Even though we usually top-post here feel
free to answer in-line so you can make thing clearer for us.
(In-line replies follow)
> Yes its a 3.8l I6
A tip: Jeep folks won't know from Litres on AMC engines. They were
always known by their cubic inch displacement (When you get into
Chrysler engines it reverses, no one knows the c.i. of a 4.0L engine).
What you've got is the 232ci, the older brother of the 258. Same block,
same everything except the crank and the connecting rods, really, so
when you go looking for parts feel free to pick from a 258 engine.
You'll need this stuff eventually:
Engine size ID from the casting numbers here:
<URL:http://www.butlers-a1.com/amcm.htm>
Engine size and year ID from the Engine Day Build Code stamped on a
machined pad between the 2nd and 3rd spark plugs:
<URL:http://www.amcrc.com/tech/engine.html>
> And by jump it i mean taking the starter moter leed
> cable and touching it to the posative terminal on the battery Voila it
> cranks. When i turn the key after reconnecting the leed, nothing
> happens at all.
OK, that's good. We know that your starter works and the battery is
charged. What we don't know is how the cable from the starter relay to
the battery is. From here follow Mike's instructions about the starter
relay -- a small black cylinder on a metal bracket bolted to the right
fender. Don't scoff at the advice about checking the ground
connections, especially under the relay -- bad grounds are a known
problem with Jeeps and cause a variety of problems. Like Mike said, if
the relay can't find ground through the fender it won't close and the
starter won't energize.
Let us know how you make out.
#86
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dj5-F electrical problems
He should have one, he reports it is a 232ci I6, so it'll be the Ford
cranking and ignition systems.
Earle Horton wrote:
> Yeah, so far this appears to be a dead Ford-type starter solenoid, but I
> don't even know whether this vehicle has that type installed. No that I am
> retired, sometimes I adopt an "interrogation style" approach to problem
> diagnosis. If it doesn't get to the root of the problem, it at least makes
> the person with the complaint go away. ;^)
>
> Jacob, do you have a black relay, about the size of a 35mm film can, with
> two big wires and one or two smaller wires bolted to it? Is that the place
> where you disconnected the starter lead? If so, you need that part, which
> will cost you $10-20.
>
> Earle
>
> "Lee Ayrton" <layrton@REMOVE_ME.panix.com> wrote in message
> news:dvi1nu$nd5$1@reader2.panix.com...
>
>>Don't it though. Part of the art of diagnosis is persistent, deliberate
>>questioning.
>>
>>
>>Earle Horton wrote:
>>
>>>This reminds me of being an EMT, trying to get people to say what is
>>>actually wrong with them, why they called, what exactly are we doing at
>
> your
>
>>>house at 2:00 AM, etc. Sometimes, you have to ask, which person is the
>
> sick
>
>>>one. It is not always obvious.
>>>
>>>Earle
>>>
>>>"billy ray" <billy_ray@fuseSPAM.net> wrote in message
>>>news:685b5$441c5309$4831b233$5616@FUSE.NET...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Okay, now we are getting somewhere but you still haven't answered if the
>>>>engine will actually start and keep running.
>>>>"Yes" (pick one) 'No'
>>>>
>>>>I suspect *not* from your descriptions.
>>>>
>>>>Please provide more detailed descriptions of what EXACTLY was done and
>>>
>>>what
>>>
>>>
>>>>the result, if any, was...
>>>>
>>>>Is there 12v power to the starter relay from the ignition switch? It
>
> will
>
>>>>not be a big battery cable but a small wire around 14 gauge.
>>>>
>>>>Do you hear a 'click' when you turn the key?
>>>>
>>>>Do you have any spark when cranking?
>>>>
>>>>By 'filed clean" do you mean the copper lugs that bolt to the starter?
>>>
>>>What
>>>
>>>
>>>>about the lead terminals at the battery end. They are best cleaned with
>
> a
>
>>>>wire brush.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Jacob" <zorak_teh_slayer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:1142703450.559614.103030@p10g2000cwp.goog legroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Yes its a 3.8l I6 And by jump it i mean taking the starter moter leed
>>>>>cable and touching it to the posative terminal on the battery Voila it
>>>>>cranks. When i turn the key after reconnecting the leed, nothing
>>>>>happens at all.
>>>>>Jacob
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I recently aquired a 78 Dj5 F from a freind. It was running great
>>>
>>>a
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>year ago but he started going to school and didn't have time for it
>>>
>>>so
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>i got it. When i turn the key nothing happens not a squeek. the
>>>
>>>battery
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>is connected right (neg to engine block) and when i jump it the
>>>
>>>engine
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>cranks, so i know that the starter and battery work. Could someone
>>>
>>>help
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>me or give a little advise.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
>
> *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
> *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***
--
This website supports what I thought would be true, So It Must Be
(tm).” David Winsemius willingly creates an anti-motto at room
temperature in AFU Labs.
#87
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dj5-F electrical problems
He should have one, he reports it is a 232ci I6, so it'll be the Ford
cranking and ignition systems.
Earle Horton wrote:
> Yeah, so far this appears to be a dead Ford-type starter solenoid, but I
> don't even know whether this vehicle has that type installed. No that I am
> retired, sometimes I adopt an "interrogation style" approach to problem
> diagnosis. If it doesn't get to the root of the problem, it at least makes
> the person with the complaint go away. ;^)
>
> Jacob, do you have a black relay, about the size of a 35mm film can, with
> two big wires and one or two smaller wires bolted to it? Is that the place
> where you disconnected the starter lead? If so, you need that part, which
> will cost you $10-20.
>
> Earle
>
> "Lee Ayrton" <layrton@REMOVE_ME.panix.com> wrote in message
> news:dvi1nu$nd5$1@reader2.panix.com...
>
>>Don't it though. Part of the art of diagnosis is persistent, deliberate
>>questioning.
>>
>>
>>Earle Horton wrote:
>>
>>>This reminds me of being an EMT, trying to get people to say what is
>>>actually wrong with them, why they called, what exactly are we doing at
>
> your
>
>>>house at 2:00 AM, etc. Sometimes, you have to ask, which person is the
>
> sick
>
>>>one. It is not always obvious.
>>>
>>>Earle
>>>
>>>"billy ray" <billy_ray@fuseSPAM.net> wrote in message
>>>news:685b5$441c5309$4831b233$5616@FUSE.NET...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Okay, now we are getting somewhere but you still haven't answered if the
>>>>engine will actually start and keep running.
>>>>"Yes" (pick one) 'No'
>>>>
>>>>I suspect *not* from your descriptions.
>>>>
>>>>Please provide more detailed descriptions of what EXACTLY was done and
>>>
>>>what
>>>
>>>
>>>>the result, if any, was...
>>>>
>>>>Is there 12v power to the starter relay from the ignition switch? It
>
> will
>
>>>>not be a big battery cable but a small wire around 14 gauge.
>>>>
>>>>Do you hear a 'click' when you turn the key?
>>>>
>>>>Do you have any spark when cranking?
>>>>
>>>>By 'filed clean" do you mean the copper lugs that bolt to the starter?
>>>
>>>What
>>>
>>>
>>>>about the lead terminals at the battery end. They are best cleaned with
>
> a
>
>>>>wire brush.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Jacob" <zorak_teh_slayer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:1142703450.559614.103030@p10g2000cwp.goog legroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Yes its a 3.8l I6 And by jump it i mean taking the starter moter leed
>>>>>cable and touching it to the posative terminal on the battery Voila it
>>>>>cranks. When i turn the key after reconnecting the leed, nothing
>>>>>happens at all.
>>>>>Jacob
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I recently aquired a 78 Dj5 F from a freind. It was running great
>>>
>>>a
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>year ago but he started going to school and didn't have time for it
>>>
>>>so
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>i got it. When i turn the key nothing happens not a squeek. the
>>>
>>>battery
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>is connected right (neg to engine block) and when i jump it the
>>>
>>>engine
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>cranks, so i know that the starter and battery work. Could someone
>>>
>>>help
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>me or give a little advise.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
>
> *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
> *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***
--
This website supports what I thought would be true, So It Must Be
(tm).” David Winsemius willingly creates an anti-motto at room
temperature in AFU Labs.
#88
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dj5-F electrical problems
He should have one, he reports it is a 232ci I6, so it'll be the Ford
cranking and ignition systems.
Earle Horton wrote:
> Yeah, so far this appears to be a dead Ford-type starter solenoid, but I
> don't even know whether this vehicle has that type installed. No that I am
> retired, sometimes I adopt an "interrogation style" approach to problem
> diagnosis. If it doesn't get to the root of the problem, it at least makes
> the person with the complaint go away. ;^)
>
> Jacob, do you have a black relay, about the size of a 35mm film can, with
> two big wires and one or two smaller wires bolted to it? Is that the place
> where you disconnected the starter lead? If so, you need that part, which
> will cost you $10-20.
>
> Earle
>
> "Lee Ayrton" <layrton@REMOVE_ME.panix.com> wrote in message
> news:dvi1nu$nd5$1@reader2.panix.com...
>
>>Don't it though. Part of the art of diagnosis is persistent, deliberate
>>questioning.
>>
>>
>>Earle Horton wrote:
>>
>>>This reminds me of being an EMT, trying to get people to say what is
>>>actually wrong with them, why they called, what exactly are we doing at
>
> your
>
>>>house at 2:00 AM, etc. Sometimes, you have to ask, which person is the
>
> sick
>
>>>one. It is not always obvious.
>>>
>>>Earle
>>>
>>>"billy ray" <billy_ray@fuseSPAM.net> wrote in message
>>>news:685b5$441c5309$4831b233$5616@FUSE.NET...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Okay, now we are getting somewhere but you still haven't answered if the
>>>>engine will actually start and keep running.
>>>>"Yes" (pick one) 'No'
>>>>
>>>>I suspect *not* from your descriptions.
>>>>
>>>>Please provide more detailed descriptions of what EXACTLY was done and
>>>
>>>what
>>>
>>>
>>>>the result, if any, was...
>>>>
>>>>Is there 12v power to the starter relay from the ignition switch? It
>
> will
>
>>>>not be a big battery cable but a small wire around 14 gauge.
>>>>
>>>>Do you hear a 'click' when you turn the key?
>>>>
>>>>Do you have any spark when cranking?
>>>>
>>>>By 'filed clean" do you mean the copper lugs that bolt to the starter?
>>>
>>>What
>>>
>>>
>>>>about the lead terminals at the battery end. They are best cleaned with
>
> a
>
>>>>wire brush.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Jacob" <zorak_teh_slayer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:1142703450.559614.103030@p10g2000cwp.goog legroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Yes its a 3.8l I6 And by jump it i mean taking the starter moter leed
>>>>>cable and touching it to the posative terminal on the battery Voila it
>>>>>cranks. When i turn the key after reconnecting the leed, nothing
>>>>>happens at all.
>>>>>Jacob
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I recently aquired a 78 Dj5 F from a freind. It was running great
>>>
>>>a
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>year ago but he started going to school and didn't have time for it
>>>
>>>so
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>i got it. When i turn the key nothing happens not a squeek. the
>>>
>>>battery
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>is connected right (neg to engine block) and when i jump it the
>>>
>>>engine
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>cranks, so i know that the starter and battery work. Could someone
>>>
>>>help
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>me or give a little advise.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
>
> *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
> *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***
--
This website supports what I thought would be true, So It Must Be
(tm).” David Winsemius willingly creates an anti-motto at room
temperature in AFU Labs.
#89
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dj5-F electrical problems
He should have one, he reports it is a 232ci I6, so it'll be the Ford
cranking and ignition systems.
Earle Horton wrote:
> Yeah, so far this appears to be a dead Ford-type starter solenoid, but I
> don't even know whether this vehicle has that type installed. No that I am
> retired, sometimes I adopt an "interrogation style" approach to problem
> diagnosis. If it doesn't get to the root of the problem, it at least makes
> the person with the complaint go away. ;^)
>
> Jacob, do you have a black relay, about the size of a 35mm film can, with
> two big wires and one or two smaller wires bolted to it? Is that the place
> where you disconnected the starter lead? If so, you need that part, which
> will cost you $10-20.
>
> Earle
>
> "Lee Ayrton" <layrton@REMOVE_ME.panix.com> wrote in message
> news:dvi1nu$nd5$1@reader2.panix.com...
>
>>Don't it though. Part of the art of diagnosis is persistent, deliberate
>>questioning.
>>
>>
>>Earle Horton wrote:
>>
>>>This reminds me of being an EMT, trying to get people to say what is
>>>actually wrong with them, why they called, what exactly are we doing at
>
> your
>
>>>house at 2:00 AM, etc. Sometimes, you have to ask, which person is the
>
> sick
>
>>>one. It is not always obvious.
>>>
>>>Earle
>>>
>>>"billy ray" <billy_ray@fuseSPAM.net> wrote in message
>>>news:685b5$441c5309$4831b233$5616@FUSE.NET...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Okay, now we are getting somewhere but you still haven't answered if the
>>>>engine will actually start and keep running.
>>>>"Yes" (pick one) 'No'
>>>>
>>>>I suspect *not* from your descriptions.
>>>>
>>>>Please provide more detailed descriptions of what EXACTLY was done and
>>>
>>>what
>>>
>>>
>>>>the result, if any, was...
>>>>
>>>>Is there 12v power to the starter relay from the ignition switch? It
>
> will
>
>>>>not be a big battery cable but a small wire around 14 gauge.
>>>>
>>>>Do you hear a 'click' when you turn the key?
>>>>
>>>>Do you have any spark when cranking?
>>>>
>>>>By 'filed clean" do you mean the copper lugs that bolt to the starter?
>>>
>>>What
>>>
>>>
>>>>about the lead terminals at the battery end. They are best cleaned with
>
> a
>
>>>>wire brush.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Jacob" <zorak_teh_slayer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:1142703450.559614.103030@p10g2000cwp.goog legroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Yes its a 3.8l I6 And by jump it i mean taking the starter moter leed
>>>>>cable and touching it to the posative terminal on the battery Voila it
>>>>>cranks. When i turn the key after reconnecting the leed, nothing
>>>>>happens at all.
>>>>>Jacob
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I recently aquired a 78 Dj5 F from a freind. It was running great
>>>
>>>a
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>year ago but he started going to school and didn't have time for it
>>>
>>>so
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>i got it. When i turn the key nothing happens not a squeek. the
>>>
>>>battery
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>is connected right (neg to engine block) and when i jump it the
>>>
>>>engine
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>cranks, so i know that the starter and battery work. Could someone
>>>
>>>help
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>me or give a little advise.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
>
> *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
> *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***
--
This website supports what I thought would be true, So It Must Be
(tm).” David Winsemius willingly creates an anti-motto at room
temperature in AFU Labs.
#90
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dj5-F electrical problems
You can easily test the solenoid.
Do you have access to a pair of jumper cables and a 12 volt test light?
Ford made a couple different starter relays. Both had the large input and
output terminals but some had one small terminal and some had two. Please
see:
http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/solenoid.htm
http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/solenoid.htm
The test procedure is the same for both.
First remove the 2 bolts/screws holding it to the fenderwell and clean them
and the plate with a wire brush. The solenoid (relay) uses these bolts for
their ground. No ground = no work
Re-attach the solenoid and with the ignition OFF carefully place a
screwdriver across the battery (input) terminal of the relay and the
S(tarter) terminal with the wire removed. The S(tarter) terminal is the
first small one next to the battery input terminal on the left side.
If the solenoid (relay) and cables are good it will "click" and the starter
will try to crank over the engine.
If it does not 'click'/crank the engine then the battery cables are
dirty/bad , the solenoid is bad, or the engine block and head grounds are
bad..
With a jumper cable you can bypass these parts one at a time to test them
"Lee Ayrton" <layrton@REMOVE_ME.panix.com> wrote in message
news:dvi4b5$isv$1@reader2.panix.com...
> Okay, now we're getting someplace. But first, Jacob, I have to tell you
> that we'll be delighted to help you /but/ you have to answer all the
> questions we ask. I'm not saying this to be persnickety. We ask them
> because they tell us what we need to know so we can help you fix your Jeep
> without making you tinger with a hundered different things, and sometimes
> the way folks report something and what we think that they said aren't the
> same thing. If someone asks you three questions about the battery cables
> and you answer only one there's still two things that could be broken.
>
> I see that you are posting from Google Groups. That's fine. Here's a tip
> that should make things easier: Instead of hitting the <reply> button at
> the bottom of the message, go up to the top of the message and click on
> <show Options>. From there hit the <reply> button and Google should quote
> the entire message in for you. That way you can be sure you answer all
> the questions. Even though we usually top-post here feel free to answer
> in-line so you can make thing clearer for us.
>
> (In-line replies follow)
>> Yes its a 3.8l I6
>
> A tip: Jeep folks won't know from Litres on AMC engines. They were
> always known by their cubic inch displacement (When you get into Chrysler
> engines it reverses, no one knows the c.i. of a 4.0L engine). What you've
> got is the 232ci, the older brother of the 258. Same block, same
> everything except the crank and the connecting rods, really, so when you
> go looking for parts feel free to pick from a 258 engine.
>
> You'll need this stuff eventually:
>
> Engine size ID from the casting numbers here:
> <URL:http://www.butlers-a1.com/amcm.htm>
>
> Engine size and year ID from the Engine Day Build Code stamped on a
> machined pad between the 2nd and 3rd spark plugs:
> <URL:http://www.amcrc.com/tech/engine.html>
>
>
>> And by jump it i mean taking the starter moter leed
>> cable and touching it to the posative terminal on the battery Voila it
>> cranks. When i turn the key after reconnecting the leed, nothing
>> happens at all.
>
> OK, that's good. We know that your starter works and the battery is
> charged. What we don't know is how the cable from the starter relay to
> the battery is. From here follow Mike's instructions about the starter
> relay -- a small black cylinder on a metal bracket bolted to the right
> fender. Don't scoff at the advice about checking the ground connections,
> especially under the relay -- bad grounds are a known problem with Jeeps
> and cause a variety of problems. Like Mike said, if the relay can't find
> ground through the fender it won't close and the starter won't energize.
>
> Let us know how you make out.
>
Do you have access to a pair of jumper cables and a 12 volt test light?
Ford made a couple different starter relays. Both had the large input and
output terminals but some had one small terminal and some had two. Please
see:
http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/solenoid.htm
http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/solenoid.htm
The test procedure is the same for both.
First remove the 2 bolts/screws holding it to the fenderwell and clean them
and the plate with a wire brush. The solenoid (relay) uses these bolts for
their ground. No ground = no work
Re-attach the solenoid and with the ignition OFF carefully place a
screwdriver across the battery (input) terminal of the relay and the
S(tarter) terminal with the wire removed. The S(tarter) terminal is the
first small one next to the battery input terminal on the left side.
If the solenoid (relay) and cables are good it will "click" and the starter
will try to crank over the engine.
If it does not 'click'/crank the engine then the battery cables are
dirty/bad , the solenoid is bad, or the engine block and head grounds are
bad..
With a jumper cable you can bypass these parts one at a time to test them
"Lee Ayrton" <layrton@REMOVE_ME.panix.com> wrote in message
news:dvi4b5$isv$1@reader2.panix.com...
> Okay, now we're getting someplace. But first, Jacob, I have to tell you
> that we'll be delighted to help you /but/ you have to answer all the
> questions we ask. I'm not saying this to be persnickety. We ask them
> because they tell us what we need to know so we can help you fix your Jeep
> without making you tinger with a hundered different things, and sometimes
> the way folks report something and what we think that they said aren't the
> same thing. If someone asks you three questions about the battery cables
> and you answer only one there's still two things that could be broken.
>
> I see that you are posting from Google Groups. That's fine. Here's a tip
> that should make things easier: Instead of hitting the <reply> button at
> the bottom of the message, go up to the top of the message and click on
> <show Options>. From there hit the <reply> button and Google should quote
> the entire message in for you. That way you can be sure you answer all
> the questions. Even though we usually top-post here feel free to answer
> in-line so you can make thing clearer for us.
>
> (In-line replies follow)
>> Yes its a 3.8l I6
>
> A tip: Jeep folks won't know from Litres on AMC engines. They were
> always known by their cubic inch displacement (When you get into Chrysler
> engines it reverses, no one knows the c.i. of a 4.0L engine). What you've
> got is the 232ci, the older brother of the 258. Same block, same
> everything except the crank and the connecting rods, really, so when you
> go looking for parts feel free to pick from a 258 engine.
>
> You'll need this stuff eventually:
>
> Engine size ID from the casting numbers here:
> <URL:http://www.butlers-a1.com/amcm.htm>
>
> Engine size and year ID from the Engine Day Build Code stamped on a
> machined pad between the 2nd and 3rd spark plugs:
> <URL:http://www.amcrc.com/tech/engine.html>
>
>
>> And by jump it i mean taking the starter moter leed
>> cable and touching it to the posative terminal on the battery Voila it
>> cranks. When i turn the key after reconnecting the leed, nothing
>> happens at all.
>
> OK, that's good. We know that your starter works and the battery is
> charged. What we don't know is how the cable from the starter relay to
> the battery is. From here follow Mike's instructions about the starter
> relay -- a small black cylinder on a metal bracket bolted to the right
> fender. Don't scoff at the advice about checking the ground connections,
> especially under the relay -- bad grounds are a known problem with Jeeps
> and cause a variety of problems. Like Mike said, if the relay can't find
> ground through the fender it won't close and the starter won't energize.
>
> Let us know how you make out.
>