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Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
I guess one thing I could do if it comes down to it is to rebuild the head
and if that doesn't work then have only the short block rebuilt as a follow up. Bill "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca... > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the > compression is strange. > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the > throttle wide open. > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put > it back together and enjoy! > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test > the compression again. > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > cylinders. > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then. > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like > 500 miles. > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I > was told it was from valve float.) > > Mike > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110. > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > > comes.... > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right? > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > Mike > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve > > seals > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I > > did > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I > > took > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I > > also > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a > > long > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in > > the > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the > > stem > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The > > one > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had > > done > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only > > a > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the > > same > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released > > so > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2 > > leak > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good, > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time. > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some > > worse > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might > > get > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to > > option > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it, > > bore > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn > > around > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in. > > They > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000 > > mile > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > > warranty. > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with > > RJE > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > > welcome. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud
following you.... Mike William Oliveri wrote: > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and still > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only > after I drive it. > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca... > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is > > gas related in #2 cylinder? > > > > Mike > > > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the > > > compression is strange. > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the > > > throttle wide open. > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put > > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test > > > the compression again. > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > > > cylinders. > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then. > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like > > > 500 miles. > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I > > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, > in > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it > requred > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out > the > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't > return > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I > didn't > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original > places and > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because > I took > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the > noise > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing > a > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it > wasn't this > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this > was a > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal > from > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all > went > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find > compression > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). > This > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was > 110. > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the > mechanic > > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go > and get > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing > the > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure > it's > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around > right? > > > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a > valve > > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with > the > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod > and > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my > valve > > > > seals > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. > When I > > > > did > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up > while I > > > > took > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve > I > > > > also > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and > attached a > > > > long > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air > in > > > > the > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move > the > > > > stem > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some > noticeable > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and > which is > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. > The > > > > one > > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work > I had > > > > done > > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak > down > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard > only > > > > a > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with > the > > > > same > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been > released > > > > so > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak > down > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if > #2 > > > > leak > > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are > good, > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A > lot of > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on > time. > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find > some > > > > worse > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or > might > > > > get > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go > to > > > > option > > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean > it, > > > > bore > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. > Turn > > > > around > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it > in. > > > > They > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year > 70,000 > > > > mile > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of > rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower > scope of > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt > with > > > > RJE > > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud
following you.... Mike William Oliveri wrote: > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and still > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only > after I drive it. > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca... > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is > > gas related in #2 cylinder? > > > > Mike > > > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the > > > compression is strange. > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the > > > throttle wide open. > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put > > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test > > > the compression again. > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > > > cylinders. > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then. > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like > > > 500 miles. > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I > > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, > in > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it > requred > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out > the > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't > return > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I > didn't > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original > places and > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because > I took > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the > noise > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing > a > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it > wasn't this > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this > was a > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal > from > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all > went > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find > compression > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). > This > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was > 110. > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the > mechanic > > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go > and get > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing > the > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure > it's > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around > right? > > > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a > valve > > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with > the > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod > and > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my > valve > > > > seals > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. > When I > > > > did > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up > while I > > > > took > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve > I > > > > also > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and > attached a > > > > long > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air > in > > > > the > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move > the > > > > stem > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some > noticeable > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and > which is > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. > The > > > > one > > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work > I had > > > > done > > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak > down > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard > only > > > > a > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with > the > > > > same > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been > released > > > > so > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak > down > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if > #2 > > > > leak > > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are > good, > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A > lot of > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on > time. > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find > some > > > > worse > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or > might > > > > get > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go > to > > > > option > > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean > it, > > > > bore > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. > Turn > > > > around > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it > in. > > > > They > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year > 70,000 > > > > mile > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of > rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower > scope of > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt > with > > > > RJE > > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud
following you.... Mike William Oliveri wrote: > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and still > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only > after I drive it. > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca... > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is > > gas related in #2 cylinder? > > > > Mike > > > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the > > > compression is strange. > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the > > > throttle wide open. > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put > > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test > > > the compression again. > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > > > cylinders. > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then. > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like > > > 500 miles. > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I > > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, > in > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it > requred > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out > the > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't > return > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I > didn't > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original > places and > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because > I took > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the > noise > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing > a > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it > wasn't this > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this > was a > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal > from > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all > went > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find > compression > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). > This > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was > 110. > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the > mechanic > > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go > and get > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing > the > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure > it's > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around > right? > > > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a > valve > > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with > the > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod > and > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my > valve > > > > seals > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. > When I > > > > did > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up > while I > > > > took > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve > I > > > > also > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and > attached a > > > > long > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air > in > > > > the > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move > the > > > > stem > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some > noticeable > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and > which is > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. > The > > > > one > > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work > I had > > > > done > > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak > down > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard > only > > > > a > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with > the > > > > same > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been > released > > > > so > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak > down > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if > #2 > > > > leak > > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are > good, > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A > lot of > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on > time. > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find > some > > > > worse > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or > might > > > > get > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go > to > > > > option > > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean > it, > > > > bore > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. > Turn > > > > around > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it > in. > > > > They > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year > 70,000 > > > > mile > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of > rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower > scope of > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt > with > > > > RJE > > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element. However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from one cylinder? I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around, wouldn't it show up just at idle? "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca... > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud > following you.... > > Mike > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and still > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only > > after I drive it. > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca... > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is > > > gas related in #2 cylinder? > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the > > > > compression is strange. > > > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the > > > > throttle wide open. > > > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put > > > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test > > > > the compression again. > > > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > > > > cylinders. > > > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then. > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like > > > > 500 miles. > > > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I > > > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > > > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, > > in > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it > > requred > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out > > the > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't > > return > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I > > didn't > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original > > places and > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because > > I took > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the > > noise > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing > > a > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it > > wasn't this > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this > > was a > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal > > from > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all > > went > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find > > compression > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). > > This > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was > > 110. > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the > > mechanic > > > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go > > and get > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing > > the > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure > > it's > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a > > valve > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with > > the > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod > > and > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my > > valve > > > > > seals > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. > > When I > > > > > did > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up > > while I > > > > > took > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve > > I > > > > > also > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and > > attached a > > > > > long > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move > > the > > > > > stem > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some > > noticeable > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and > > which is > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. > > The > > > > > one > > > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work > > I had > > > > > done > > > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak > > down > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard > > only > > > > > a > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with > > the > > > > > same > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been > > released > > > > > so > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak > > down > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if > > #2 > > > > > leak > > > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are > > good, > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A > > lot of > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on > > time. > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find > > some > > > > > worse > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or > > might > > > > > get > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go > > to > > > > > option > > > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean > > it, > > > > > bore > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. > > Turn > > > > > around > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it > > in. > > > > > They > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year > > 70,000 > > > > > mile > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > > > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of > > rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower > > scope of > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt > > with > > > > > RJE > > > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > > > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element. However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from one cylinder? I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around, wouldn't it show up just at idle? "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca... > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud > following you.... > > Mike > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and still > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only > > after I drive it. > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca... > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is > > > gas related in #2 cylinder? > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the > > > > compression is strange. > > > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the > > > > throttle wide open. > > > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put > > > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test > > > > the compression again. > > > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > > > > cylinders. > > > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then. > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like > > > > 500 miles. > > > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I > > > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > > > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, > > in > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it > > requred > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out > > the > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't > > return > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I > > didn't > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original > > places and > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because > > I took > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the > > noise > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing > > a > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it > > wasn't this > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this > > was a > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal > > from > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all > > went > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find > > compression > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). > > This > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was > > 110. > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the > > mechanic > > > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go > > and get > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing > > the > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure > > it's > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a > > valve > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with > > the > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod > > and > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my > > valve > > > > > seals > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. > > When I > > > > > did > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up > > while I > > > > > took > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve > > I > > > > > also > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and > > attached a > > > > > long > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move > > the > > > > > stem > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some > > noticeable > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and > > which is > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. > > The > > > > > one > > > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work > > I had > > > > > done > > > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak > > down > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard > > only > > > > > a > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with > > the > > > > > same > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been > > released > > > > > so > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak > > down > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if > > #2 > > > > > leak > > > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are > > good, > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A > > lot of > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on > > time. > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find > > some > > > > > worse > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or > > might > > > > > get > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go > > to > > > > > option > > > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean > > it, > > > > > bore > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. > > Turn > > > > > around > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it > > in. > > > > > They > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year > > 70,000 > > > > > mile > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > > > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of > > rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower > > scope of > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt > > with > > > > > RJE > > > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > > > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element. However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from one cylinder? I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around, wouldn't it show up just at idle? "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca... > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud > following you.... > > Mike > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and still > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only > > after I drive it. > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca... > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is > > > gas related in #2 cylinder? > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the > > > > compression is strange. > > > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the > > > > throttle wide open. > > > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put > > > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test > > > > the compression again. > > > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > > > > cylinders. > > > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then. > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like > > > > 500 miles. > > > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I > > > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > > > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, > > in > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it > > requred > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out > > the > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't > > return > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I > > didn't > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original > > places and > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because > > I took > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the > > noise > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing > > a > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it > > wasn't this > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this > > was a > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal > > from > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all > > went > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find > > compression > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). > > This > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was > > 110. > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the > > mechanic > > > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go > > and get > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing > > the > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure > > it's > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a > > valve > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with > > the > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod > > and > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my > > valve > > > > > seals > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. > > When I > > > > > did > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up > > while I > > > > > took > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve > > I > > > > > also > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and > > attached a > > > > > long > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move > > the > > > > > stem > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some > > noticeable > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and > > which is > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. > > The > > > > > one > > > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work > > I had > > > > > done > > > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak > > down > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard > > only > > > > > a > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with > > the > > > > > same > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been > > released > > > > > so > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak > > down > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if > > #2 > > > > > leak > > > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are > > good, > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A > > lot of > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on > > time. > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find > > some > > > > > worse > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or > > might > > > > > get > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go > > to > > > > > option > > > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean > > it, > > > > > bore > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. > > Turn > > > > > around > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it > > in. > > > > > They > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year > > 70,000 > > > > > mile > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > > > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of > > rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower > > scope of > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt > > with > > > > > RJE > > > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > > > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up past the rings. How does the oil on the dipstick smell? Mike William Oliveri wrote: > > I'm going to get a compression tester tomorrow and let you know what I find. > If I get good compression all the way across then this won't tell me about > the oil getting in the cylinder. Does that mean it's definitely the head? > > Thanks, > > Bill > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca... > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the > > compression is strange. > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the > > throttle wide open. > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test > > the compression again. > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > > cylinders. > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then. > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like > > 500 miles. > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > Mike > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, > in > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't > return > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places > and > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I > took > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the > noise > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't > this > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this > was a > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal > from > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all > went > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). > This > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was > 110. > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the > mechanic > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and > get > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure > it's > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around > right? > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod > and > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve > > > seals > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. > When I > > > did > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while > I > > > took > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I > > > also > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached > a > > > long > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air > in > > > the > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move > the > > > stem > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some > noticeable > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which > is > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. > The > > > one > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I > had > > > done > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak > down > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard > only > > > a > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with > the > > > same > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been > released > > > so > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak > down > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if > #2 > > > leak > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are > good, > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A > lot of > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on > time. > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find > some > > > worse > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or > might > > > get > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to > > > option > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean > it, > > > bore > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn > > > around > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in. > > > They > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year > 70,000 > > > mile > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope > of > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt > with > > > RJE > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up past the rings. How does the oil on the dipstick smell? Mike William Oliveri wrote: > > I'm going to get a compression tester tomorrow and let you know what I find. > If I get good compression all the way across then this won't tell me about > the oil getting in the cylinder. Does that mean it's definitely the head? > > Thanks, > > Bill > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca... > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the > > compression is strange. > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the > > throttle wide open. > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test > > the compression again. > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > > cylinders. > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then. > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like > > 500 miles. > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > Mike > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, > in > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't > return > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places > and > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I > took > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the > noise > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't > this > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this > was a > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal > from > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all > went > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). > This > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was > 110. > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the > mechanic > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and > get > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure > it's > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around > right? > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod > and > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve > > > seals > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. > When I > > > did > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while > I > > > took > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I > > > also > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached > a > > > long > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air > in > > > the > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move > the > > > stem > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some > noticeable > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which > is > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. > The > > > one > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I > had > > > done > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak > down > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard > only > > > a > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with > the > > > same > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been > released > > > so > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak > down > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if > #2 > > > leak > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are > good, > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A > lot of > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on > time. > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find > some > > > worse > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or > might > > > get > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to > > > option > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean > it, > > > bore > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn > > > around > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in. > > > They > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year > 70,000 > > > mile > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope > of > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt > with > > > RJE > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up past the rings. How does the oil on the dipstick smell? Mike William Oliveri wrote: > > I'm going to get a compression tester tomorrow and let you know what I find. > If I get good compression all the way across then this won't tell me about > the oil getting in the cylinder. Does that mean it's definitely the head? > > Thanks, > > Bill > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca... > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the > > compression is strange. > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the > > throttle wide open. > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test > > the compression again. > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > > cylinders. > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then. > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like > > 500 miles. > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > Mike > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, > in > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't > return > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places > and > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I > took > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the > noise > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't > this > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this > was a > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal > from > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all > went > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). > This > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was > 110. > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the > mechanic > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and > get > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure > it's > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around > right? > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod > and > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve > > > seals > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. > When I > > > did > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while > I > > > took > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I > > > also > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached > a > > > long > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air > in > > > the > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move > the > > > stem > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some > noticeable > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which > is > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. > The > > > one > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I > had > > > done > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak > down > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard > only > > > a > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with > the > > > same > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been > released > > > so > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak > down > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if > #2 > > > leak > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are > good, > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A > lot of > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on > time. > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find > some > > > worse > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or > might > > > get > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to > > > option > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean > it, > > > bore > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn > > > around > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in. > > > They > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year > 70,000 > > > mile > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope > of > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt > with > > > RJE > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
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