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Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Robert,
Is this the place you're talking about? Orange Engine Rebuilding Address: 1911 E Ball Rd, Anaheim, CA 92805 Phone: (714) 635-4030 If not, can you pass me the number and address? Thanks, Bill "Robert Bills" <rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:20040208114851.20582.00001059@mb-m21.aol.com... > Sounds like valves or head gasket, not rings. Your compression check will tell > you. > > If it is just the head, either get it redone with new valves, etc. or go with a > freshly rebuilt 4.0 head. Orange Engine is a quality rebuilder. Locations in > Orange and San Juan Capistrano. > > Robert Bills > KG6LMV > Orange County CA > > http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm > http://www.RobertBills.com |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Robert,
Is this the place you're talking about? Orange Engine Rebuilding Address: 1911 E Ball Rd, Anaheim, CA 92805 Phone: (714) 635-4030 If not, can you pass me the number and address? Thanks, Bill "Robert Bills" <rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:20040208114851.20582.00001059@mb-m21.aol.com... > Sounds like valves or head gasket, not rings. Your compression check will tell > you. > > If it is just the head, either get it redone with new valves, etc. or go with a > freshly rebuilt 4.0 head. Orange Engine is a quality rebuilder. Locations in > Orange and San Juan Capistrano. > > Robert Bills > KG6LMV > Orange County CA > > http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm > http://www.RobertBills.com |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and still
see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only after I drive it. "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca... > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is > gas related in #2 cylinder? > > Mike > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the > > compression is strange. > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the > > throttle wide open. > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test > > the compression again. > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > > cylinders. > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then. > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like > > 500 miles. > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > Mike > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110. > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right? > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve > > > seals > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I > > > did > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I > > > took > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I > > > also > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a > > > long > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in > > > the > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the > > > stem > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The > > > one > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had > > > done > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only > > > a > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the > > > same > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released > > > so > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2 > > > leak > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good, > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time. > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some > > > worse > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might > > > get > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to > > > option > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it, > > > bore > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn > > > around > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in. > > > They > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000 > > > mile > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with > > > RJE > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and still
see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only after I drive it. "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca... > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is > gas related in #2 cylinder? > > Mike > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the > > compression is strange. > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the > > throttle wide open. > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test > > the compression again. > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > > cylinders. > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then. > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like > > 500 miles. > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > Mike > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110. > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right? > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve > > > seals > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I > > > did > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I > > > took > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I > > > also > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a > > > long > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in > > > the > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the > > > stem > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The > > > one > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had > > > done > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only > > > a > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the > > > same > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released > > > so > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2 > > > leak > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good, > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time. > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some > > > worse > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might > > > get > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to > > > option > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it, > > > bore > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn > > > around > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in. > > > They > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000 > > > mile > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with > > > RJE > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and still
see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only after I drive it. "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca... > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is > gas related in #2 cylinder? > > Mike > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the > > compression is strange. > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the > > throttle wide open. > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test > > the compression again. > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > > cylinders. > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then. > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like > > 500 miles. > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > Mike > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110. > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right? > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve > > > seals > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I > > > did > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I > > > took > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I > > > also > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a > > > long > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in > > > the > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the > > > stem > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The > > > one > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had > > > done > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only > > > a > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the > > > same > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released > > > so > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2 > > > leak > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good, > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time. > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some > > > worse > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might > > > get > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to > > > option > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it, > > > bore > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn > > > around > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in. > > > They > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000 > > > mile > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with > > > RJE > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
I'm going to get a compression tester tomorrow and let you know what I find.
If I get good compression all the way across then this won't tell me about the oil getting in the cylinder. Does that mean it's definitely the head? Thanks, Bill "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca... > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the > compression is strange. > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the > throttle wide open. > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put > it back together and enjoy! > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test > the compression again. > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > cylinders. > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then. > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like > 500 miles. > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I > was told it was from valve float.) > > Mike > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110. > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > > comes.... > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right? > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > Mike > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve > > seals > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I > > did > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I > > took > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I > > also > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a > > long > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in > > the > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the > > stem > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The > > one > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had > > done > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only > > a > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the > > same > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released > > so > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2 > > leak > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good, > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time. > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some > > worse > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might > > get > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to > > option > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it, > > bore > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn > > around > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in. > > They > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000 > > mile > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > > warranty. > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with > > RJE > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > > welcome. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
I'm going to get a compression tester tomorrow and let you know what I find.
If I get good compression all the way across then this won't tell me about the oil getting in the cylinder. Does that mean it's definitely the head? Thanks, Bill "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca... > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the > compression is strange. > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the > throttle wide open. > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put > it back together and enjoy! > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test > the compression again. > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > cylinders. > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then. > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like > 500 miles. > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I > was told it was from valve float.) > > Mike > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110. > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > > comes.... > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right? > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > Mike > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve > > seals > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I > > did > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I > > took > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I > > also > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a > > long > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in > > the > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the > > stem > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The > > one > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had > > done > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only > > a > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the > > same > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released > > so > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2 > > leak > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good, > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time. > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some > > worse > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might > > get > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to > > option > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it, > > bore > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn > > around > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in. > > They > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000 > > mile > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > > warranty. > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with > > RJE > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > > welcome. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
I'm going to get a compression tester tomorrow and let you know what I find.
If I get good compression all the way across then this won't tell me about the oil getting in the cylinder. Does that mean it's definitely the head? Thanks, Bill "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca... > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the > compression is strange. > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the > throttle wide open. > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put > it back together and enjoy! > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test > the compression again. > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > cylinders. > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then. > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like > 500 miles. > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I > was told it was from valve float.) > > Mike > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110. > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > > comes.... > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right? > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > Mike > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve > > seals > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I > > did > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I > > took > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I > > also > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a > > long > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in > > the > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the > > stem > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The > > one > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had > > done > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only > > a > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the > > same > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released > > so > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2 > > leak > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good, > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time. > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some > > worse > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might > > get > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to > > option > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it, > > bore > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn > > around > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in. > > They > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000 > > mile > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > > warranty. > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with > > RJE > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > > welcome. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
I guess one thing I could do if it comes down to it is to rebuild the head
and if that doesn't work then have only the short block rebuilt as a follow up. Bill "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca... > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the > compression is strange. > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the > throttle wide open. > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put > it back together and enjoy! > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test > the compression again. > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > cylinders. > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then. > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like > 500 miles. > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I > was told it was from valve float.) > > Mike > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110. > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > > comes.... > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right? > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > Mike > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve > > seals > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I > > did > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I > > took > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I > > also > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a > > long > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in > > the > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the > > stem > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The > > one > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had > > done > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only > > a > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the > > same > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released > > so > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2 > > leak > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good, > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time. > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some > > worse > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might > > get > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to > > option > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it, > > bore > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn > > around > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in. > > They > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000 > > mile > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > > warranty. > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with > > RJE > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > > welcome. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
I guess one thing I could do if it comes down to it is to rebuild the head
and if that doesn't work then have only the short block rebuilt as a follow up. Bill "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca... > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the > compression is strange. > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the > throttle wide open. > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put > it back together and enjoy! > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test > the compression again. > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > cylinders. > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then. > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like > 500 miles. > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I > was told it was from valve float.) > > Mike > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110. > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > > comes.... > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right? > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > Mike > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve > > seals > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I > > did > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I > > took > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I > > also > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a > > long > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in > > the > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the > > stem > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The > > one > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had > > done > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only > > a > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the > > same > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released > > so > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2 > > leak > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good, > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time. > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some > > worse > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might > > get > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to > > option > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it, > > bore > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn > > around > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in. > > They > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000 > > mile > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > > warranty. > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with > > RJE > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > > welcome. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Bill |
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