Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

"Nathan W. Collier" <MontanaJeeper@aol.com> wrote in message
news:119fh8jitg1p5b8@corp.supernews.com...
> "Ruel Smith" <NoWay@NoWhere.com> wrote in message
> news:47544$429786a3$422aaa63$24236@FUSE.NET...
>> $20+/hr on a flat rate = a handsome income.
>
> $20 per hour = $41,600 per year GROSS = lower medium income.
>
>> Most mechanics turned
>> around 80 book hrs. a week working a 5 day week from 8 AM to 5 PM, with
>> an
>> hour lunch. Do the math: $20 x 80 = $1600 gross/wk = $83,200 per year
>> while
>> working 40 hrs. a week.
>
> if you honestly believe _any_ dealership mechanic is making $83k a year
> then you have no idea at just how ignorant you are to how it really works.
> for starters, unless youve been there 15 years you arent going to see
> anywhere near $20 an hour. assuming you do eventually see $20 an hour it
> isnt really $20 an hour. manufacturers set how many hours they allow for
> a repair and pay you accordingly. for example, they may authorize 1 hour
> for changing an alternator even though it takes you 3 hours to change it.
> no matter how long it takes, youre getting paid for that 1 hour they
> allowed. you might know dealership mechanics who work 80 hours per week
> but you can bet your scrotum that they arent getting paid for it.
>
>
>> Like I said, $20 PLUS per hour FLAT RATE. Doesn't
>> sound like lower middle income to me.
>
> thats just because real life hasnt jumped up and kicked you in the nuts
> yet.

High end imprt techs (MB, BMW, JAGUAR, Porsche, etc.) are making far more
than $20 an hour, partiularly in large metro ares. Further, it's considered
a fairly common benchmark that techs efficiency should be around 120%. That
is, they should "flag" about 20% more flat rate time than they actually
work. Before everyone loses their composure, Nathan is quite right, time for
warranty repairs are set by the factories, and one can lose their shirt on a
complex diagnosis, etc. It is assumed, however, that one can make up the
time less comlicated repairs or maintenance services. It is not uncommon to
find experienced techs running 150% or more efficiency.

Re: Where to move to
 

Tom Greening wrote:
> Actually, Japan is a pretty great place. Modern, friendly, and the girls
> are especially cute. Just so long as you don't mind being groped on a train
> now and again (by women curious about westerners and their, uhm,
> "attributes"), it's a nice place.


Geez, that sounds like part of what makes it a nice place..

Re: Where to move to
 

Tom Greening wrote:
> Actually, Japan is a pretty great place. Modern, friendly, and the girls
> are especially cute. Just so long as you don't mind being groped on a train
> now and again (by women curious about westerners and their, uhm,
> "attributes"), it's a nice place.


Geez, that sounds like part of what makes it a nice place..

Re: Where to move to
 

Tom Greening wrote:
> Actually, Japan is a pretty great place. Modern, friendly, and the girls
> are especially cute. Just so long as you don't mind being groped on a train
> now and again (by women curious about westerners and their, uhm,
> "attributes"), it's a nice place.


Geez, that sounds like part of what makes it a nice place..

Re: Where to move to
 

Tom Greening wrote:
> Actually, Japan is a pretty great place. Modern, friendly, and the girls
> are especially cute. Just so long as you don't mind being groped on a train
> now and again (by women curious about westerners and their, uhm,
> "attributes"), it's a nice place.


Geez, that sounds like part of what makes it a nice place..

Re: Where to move to
 

Try Tijuana, it get old fast.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

JohnM wrote:
>
> Geez, that sounds like part of what makes it a nice place..

Re: Where to move to
 

Try Tijuana, it get old fast.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

JohnM wrote:
>
> Geez, that sounds like part of what makes it a nice place..

Re: Where to move to
 

Try Tijuana, it get old fast.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

JohnM wrote:
>
> Geez, that sounds like part of what makes it a nice place..

Re: Where to move to
 

Try Tijuana, it get old fast.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

JohnM wrote:
>
> Geez, that sounds like part of what makes it a nice place..

Re: Where to move to
 

America, love it, or leave it! You got a problem with that?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

JohnM wrote:
>
> Geez, bill, why so nasty?

Re: Where to move to
 

America, love it, or leave it! You got a problem with that?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

JohnM wrote:
>
> Geez, bill, why so nasty?

Re: Where to move to
 

America, love it, or leave it! You got a problem with that?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

JohnM wrote:
>
> Geez, bill, why so nasty?

Re: Where to move to
 

America, love it, or leave it! You got a problem with that?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

JohnM wrote:
>
> Geez, bill, why so nasty?

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

Ruel Smith wrote:
> Scotty wrote:
>
>
>>I
>>asked a real truck owner why he recently bought a Toyota Tundra and he
>>told me that he had driven two Toyota cars to 200,000 miles without any
>>problems and with nothing more than regular maintenance while his last
>>Ford truck needed an engine at 95,000 miles and the interior and body
>>started to deteriorate at 65,000 miles.
>
>
> And I have a 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sport with 146,000 on the odometer, and it
> has only needed a clutch @ 143,000 and a new header since a weld has now
> cracked in the original. It's still going strong and driven everyday. This
> inline 6 was designed by AMC, which was not known for reliability,

That motor certainly was known for reliability. Still is, for that matter.

You're doing a good job on the pedal to get that milage from a clutch.

John

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

Ruel Smith wrote:
> Scotty wrote:
>
>
>>I
>>asked a real truck owner why he recently bought a Toyota Tundra and he
>>told me that he had driven two Toyota cars to 200,000 miles without any
>>problems and with nothing more than regular maintenance while his last
>>Ford truck needed an engine at 95,000 miles and the interior and body
>>started to deteriorate at 65,000 miles.
>
>
> And I have a 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sport with 146,000 on the odometer, and it
> has only needed a clutch @ 143,000 and a new header since a weld has now
> cracked in the original. It's still going strong and driven everyday. This
> inline 6 was designed by AMC, which was not known for reliability,

That motor certainly was known for reliability. Still is, for that matter.

You're doing a good job on the pedal to get that milage from a clutch.

John

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

Ruel Smith wrote:
> Scotty wrote:
>
>
>>I
>>asked a real truck owner why he recently bought a Toyota Tundra and he
>>told me that he had driven two Toyota cars to 200,000 miles without any
>>problems and with nothing more than regular maintenance while his last
>>Ford truck needed an engine at 95,000 miles and the interior and body
>>started to deteriorate at 65,000 miles.
>
>
> And I have a 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sport with 146,000 on the odometer, and it
> has only needed a clutch @ 143,000 and a new header since a weld has now
> cracked in the original. It's still going strong and driven everyday. This
> inline 6 was designed by AMC, which was not known for reliability,

That motor certainly was known for reliability. Still is, for that matter.

You're doing a good job on the pedal to get that milage from a clutch.

John

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

Ruel Smith wrote:
> Scotty wrote:
>
>
>>I
>>asked a real truck owner why he recently bought a Toyota Tundra and he
>>told me that he had driven two Toyota cars to 200,000 miles without any
>>problems and with nothing more than regular maintenance while his last
>>Ford truck needed an engine at 95,000 miles and the interior and body
>>started to deteriorate at 65,000 miles.
>
>
> And I have a 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sport with 146,000 on the odometer, and it
> has only needed a clutch @ 143,000 and a new header since a weld has now
> cracked in the original. It's still going strong and driven everyday. This
> inline 6 was designed by AMC, which was not known for reliability,

That motor certainly was known for reliability. Still is, for that matter.

You're doing a good job on the pedal to get that milage from a clutch.

John

Re: Where to move to
 

L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> I'd appreciate it if you would move to Japan.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Geez, bill, why so nasty?

>
> Tom Greening wrote:
>
>>Actually, Japan is a pretty great place. Modern, friendly, and the girls
>>are especially cute. Just so long as you don't mind being groped on a train
>>now and again (by women curious about westerners and their, uhm,
>>"attributes"), it's a nice place.

Re: Where to move to
 

L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> I'd appreciate it if you would move to Japan.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Geez, bill, why so nasty?

>
> Tom Greening wrote:
>
>>Actually, Japan is a pretty great place. Modern, friendly, and the girls
>>are especially cute. Just so long as you don't mind being groped on a train
>>now and again (by women curious about westerners and their, uhm,
>>"attributes"), it's a nice place.

Re: Where to move to
 

L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> I'd appreciate it if you would move to Japan.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Geez, bill, why so nasty?

>
> Tom Greening wrote:
>
>>Actually, Japan is a pretty great place. Modern, friendly, and the girls
>>are especially cute. Just so long as you don't mind being groped on a train
>>now and again (by women curious about westerners and their, uhm,
>>"attributes"), it's a nice place.

Re: Where to move to
 

L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> I'd appreciate it if you would move to Japan.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Geez, bill, why so nasty?

>
> Tom Greening wrote:
>
>>Actually, Japan is a pretty great place. Modern, friendly, and the girls
>>are especially cute. Just so long as you don't mind being groped on a train
>>now and again (by women curious about westerners and their, uhm,
>>"attributes"), it's a nice place.

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

JohnM wrote:
> Ruel Smith wrote:
>
>> Scotty wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I
>>> asked a real truck owner why he recently bought a Toyota Tundra and he
>>> told me that he had driven two Toyota cars to 200,000 miles without any
>>> problems and with nothing more than regular maintenance while his last
>>> Ford truck needed an engine at 95,000 miles and the interior and body
>>> started to deteriorate at 65,000 miles.
>>
>>
>>
>> And I have a 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sport with 146,000 on the odometer,
>> and it
>> has only needed a clutch @ 143,000 and a new header since a weld has now
>> cracked in the original. It's still going strong and driven everyday.
>> This
>> inline 6 was designed by AMC, which was not known for reliability,
>
>
> That motor certainly was known for reliability. Still is, for that matter.
>
> You're doing a good job on the pedal to get that milage from a clutch.

That kind of mileage from the OE clutch isn't that unusual. My TJ's OE
clutch has 153,000 miles on it
and it's still going strong. That's with many smoked clutch (literally)
episodes and tough rock crawling trail use
where slipping the clutch is necessary at times.

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

JohnM wrote:
> Ruel Smith wrote:
>
>> Scotty wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I
>>> asked a real truck owner why he recently bought a Toyota Tundra and he
>>> told me that he had driven two Toyota cars to 200,000 miles without any
>>> problems and with nothing more than regular maintenance while his last
>>> Ford truck needed an engine at 95,000 miles and the interior and body
>>> started to deteriorate at 65,000 miles.
>>
>>
>>
>> And I have a 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sport with 146,000 on the odometer,
>> and it
>> has only needed a clutch @ 143,000 and a new header since a weld has now
>> cracked in the original. It's still going strong and driven everyday.
>> This
>> inline 6 was designed by AMC, which was not known for reliability,
>
>
> That motor certainly was known for reliability. Still is, for that matter.
>
> You're doing a good job on the pedal to get that milage from a clutch.

That kind of mileage from the OE clutch isn't that unusual. My TJ's OE
clutch has 153,000 miles on it
and it's still going strong. That's with many smoked clutch (literally)
episodes and tough rock crawling trail use
where slipping the clutch is necessary at times.

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

JohnM wrote:
> Ruel Smith wrote:
>
>> Scotty wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I
>>> asked a real truck owner why he recently bought a Toyota Tundra and he
>>> told me that he had driven two Toyota cars to 200,000 miles without any
>>> problems and with nothing more than regular maintenance while his last
>>> Ford truck needed an engine at 95,000 miles and the interior and body
>>> started to deteriorate at 65,000 miles.
>>
>>
>>
>> And I have a 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sport with 146,000 on the odometer,
>> and it
>> has only needed a clutch @ 143,000 and a new header since a weld has now
>> cracked in the original. It's still going strong and driven everyday.
>> This
>> inline 6 was designed by AMC, which was not known for reliability,
>
>
> That motor certainly was known for reliability. Still is, for that matter.
>
> You're doing a good job on the pedal to get that milage from a clutch.

That kind of mileage from the OE clutch isn't that unusual. My TJ's OE
clutch has 153,000 miles on it
and it's still going strong. That's with many smoked clutch (literally)
episodes and tough rock crawling trail use
where slipping the clutch is necessary at times.

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

JohnM wrote:
> Ruel Smith wrote:
>
>> Scotty wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I
>>> asked a real truck owner why he recently bought a Toyota Tundra and he
>>> told me that he had driven two Toyota cars to 200,000 miles without any
>>> problems and with nothing more than regular maintenance while his last
>>> Ford truck needed an engine at 95,000 miles and the interior and body
>>> started to deteriorate at 65,000 miles.
>>
>>
>>
>> And I have a 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sport with 146,000 on the odometer,
>> and it
>> has only needed a clutch @ 143,000 and a new header since a weld has now
>> cracked in the original. It's still going strong and driven everyday.
>> This
>> inline 6 was designed by AMC, which was not known for reliability,
>
>
> That motor certainly was known for reliability. Still is, for that matter.
>
> You're doing a good job on the pedal to get that milage from a clutch.

That kind of mileage from the OE clutch isn't that unusual. My TJ's OE
clutch has 153,000 miles on it
and it's still going strong. That's with many smoked clutch (literally)
episodes and tough rock crawling trail use
where slipping the clutch is necessary at times.

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

Nathan W. Collier wrote:

> $20 per hour = $41,600 per year GROSS = lower medium income.
>
>> Most mechanics turned
>> around 80 book hrs. a week working a 5 day week from 8 AM to 5 PM, with
>> an hour lunch. Do the math: $20 x 80 = $1600 gross/wk = $83,200 per year
>> while
>> working 40 hrs. a week.
>
> if you honestly believe _any_ dealership mechanic is making $83k a year
> then you have no idea at just how ignorant you are to how it really works.

I do know how it works, and what I did was just use simple math, which is
more at the higher end, assuming a fast, competent mechanic. The reality is
that many mechanics only turn 60 hrs. some weeks, 70 hrs. others, and some
80 hr. weeks. They don't always get 80 book hrs. per week. Some mechanics
are more seasoned and capable than others and can turn nearly 80 hrs. a
week on a regular basis. Many, however, cannot. I've seen good mechanics
make real good money, and I've seen guys make average incomes not turning
in enough hrs. because they're slow or screw up.

However, they do make some decent money. They are NOT lower middle income.

> for starters, unless youve been there 15 years you arent going to see
> anywhere
> near $20 an hour.

Yes, you are. An experienced mechanic that's ASE certified, along with other
certifications will. Will the typical guy right out of school? No. When I
sold cars back around 1997, I knew several mechanics that made $17/hr flat
rate then. Figure pay increases in the last 8 yrs. and I'd say they're
making about $22/hr or so now. Hell, I know a painter that worked for
$24/hr flat rate just a couple of years ago and earned over $100,000 that
particular year, but unfortunately lost the job because of a drinking
problem. However, he didn't work at a dealership, but rather an independent
shop.

> assuming you do eventually see $20 an hour it isnt
> really
> $20 an hour.

No, it's more because of flat rate. Do you understand the flat rate system?

> manufacturers set how many hours they allow for a repair and
> pay you accordingly.

Wrong. What the manufacturer's do is pay a lower rate to the _dealership_
for warranty work. The dealer may charge $60/hr. flat rate to a customer to
work on the car, but the manufacturer may pay only $45/hr. flat rate under
warranty work. Some dealerships shift some of that to the mechanic by
paying a lower rate. This is dealership specific, and there is no industry
standard as to what they pay the mechanic doing warranty work.

> for example, they may authorize 1 hour for changing
> an
> alternator even though it takes you 3 hours to change it. no matter how
> long it takes, youre getting paid for that 1 hour they allowed.

You've just described the flat rate system, which I clearly stated was how a
mechanic turns more hrs. a week than he actually works. Though some
problems sometimes require more time than the book labor time allotted,
most actually take less time. Typically, only repairs that are difficult to
track down problems (which they usually have a specialized mechanic called
a drivability mechanic) and ones that go horribly wrong will actually take
more time. Most jobs are completed in less time than the book allowed. This
is how mechanics can work 40 hr. weeks and turn 60 to 80 hrs book time.
I've never known a dealership mechanic that actually turned in less book
hrs. in a week than he actually physically worked.

> you might
> know dealership mechanics who work 80 hours per week but you can bet your
> scrotum that they arent getting paid for it.

No, they're working 40 or so hrs. a week, sometimes a little more as
dealerships rotate 2 guys to stay late on Wednesdays and/or Saturday half
days, and they turn 60 to 80 hrs a week flat rate.

YOU obviously don't know how it works. As a former car salesman that hung
out and talked quite a bit to the mechanics, I know all too well how it
works. We had 3 mechanics that made more money than our top salesman.


--

Registered Linux user #378193

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

Nathan W. Collier wrote:

> $20 per hour = $41,600 per year GROSS = lower medium income.
>
>> Most mechanics turned
>> around 80 book hrs. a week working a 5 day week from 8 AM to 5 PM, with
>> an hour lunch. Do the math: $20 x 80 = $1600 gross/wk = $83,200 per year
>> while
>> working 40 hrs. a week.
>
> if you honestly believe _any_ dealership mechanic is making $83k a year
> then you have no idea at just how ignorant you are to how it really works.

I do know how it works, and what I did was just use simple math, which is
more at the higher end, assuming a fast, competent mechanic. The reality is
that many mechanics only turn 60 hrs. some weeks, 70 hrs. others, and some
80 hr. weeks. They don't always get 80 book hrs. per week. Some mechanics
are more seasoned and capable than others and can turn nearly 80 hrs. a
week on a regular basis. Many, however, cannot. I've seen good mechanics
make real good money, and I've seen guys make average incomes not turning
in enough hrs. because they're slow or screw up.

However, they do make some decent money. They are NOT lower middle income.

> for starters, unless youve been there 15 years you arent going to see
> anywhere
> near $20 an hour.

Yes, you are. An experienced mechanic that's ASE certified, along with other
certifications will. Will the typical guy right out of school? No. When I
sold cars back around 1997, I knew several mechanics that made $17/hr flat
rate then. Figure pay increases in the last 8 yrs. and I'd say they're
making about $22/hr or so now. Hell, I know a painter that worked for
$24/hr flat rate just a couple of years ago and earned over $100,000 that
particular year, but unfortunately lost the job because of a drinking
problem. However, he didn't work at a dealership, but rather an independent
shop.

> assuming you do eventually see $20 an hour it isnt
> really
> $20 an hour.

No, it's more because of flat rate. Do you understand the flat rate system?

> manufacturers set how many hours they allow for a repair and
> pay you accordingly.

Wrong. What the manufacturer's do is pay a lower rate to the _dealership_
for warranty work. The dealer may charge $60/hr. flat rate to a customer to
work on the car, but the manufacturer may pay only $45/hr. flat rate under
warranty work. Some dealerships shift some of that to the mechanic by
paying a lower rate. This is dealership specific, and there is no industry
standard as to what they pay the mechanic doing warranty work.

> for example, they may authorize 1 hour for changing
> an
> alternator even though it takes you 3 hours to change it. no matter how
> long it takes, youre getting paid for that 1 hour they allowed.

You've just described the flat rate system, which I clearly stated was how a
mechanic turns more hrs. a week than he actually works. Though some
problems sometimes require more time than the book labor time allotted,
most actually take less time. Typically, only repairs that are difficult to
track down problems (which they usually have a specialized mechanic called
a drivability mechanic) and ones that go horribly wrong will actually take
more time. Most jobs are completed in less time than the book allowed. This
is how mechanics can work 40 hr. weeks and turn 60 to 80 hrs book time.
I've never known a dealership mechanic that actually turned in less book
hrs. in a week than he actually physically worked.

> you might
> know dealership mechanics who work 80 hours per week but you can bet your
> scrotum that they arent getting paid for it.

No, they're working 40 or so hrs. a week, sometimes a little more as
dealerships rotate 2 guys to stay late on Wednesdays and/or Saturday half
days, and they turn 60 to 80 hrs a week flat rate.

YOU obviously don't know how it works. As a former car salesman that hung
out and talked quite a bit to the mechanics, I know all too well how it
works. We had 3 mechanics that made more money than our top salesman.


--

Registered Linux user #378193

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

Nathan W. Collier wrote:

> $20 per hour = $41,600 per year GROSS = lower medium income.
>
>> Most mechanics turned
>> around 80 book hrs. a week working a 5 day week from 8 AM to 5 PM, with
>> an hour lunch. Do the math: $20 x 80 = $1600 gross/wk = $83,200 per year
>> while
>> working 40 hrs. a week.
>
> if you honestly believe _any_ dealership mechanic is making $83k a year
> then you have no idea at just how ignorant you are to how it really works.

I do know how it works, and what I did was just use simple math, which is
more at the higher end, assuming a fast, competent mechanic. The reality is
that many mechanics only turn 60 hrs. some weeks, 70 hrs. others, and some
80 hr. weeks. They don't always get 80 book hrs. per week. Some mechanics
are more seasoned and capable than others and can turn nearly 80 hrs. a
week on a regular basis. Many, however, cannot. I've seen good mechanics
make real good money, and I've seen guys make average incomes not turning
in enough hrs. because they're slow or screw up.

However, they do make some decent money. They are NOT lower middle income.

> for starters, unless youve been there 15 years you arent going to see
> anywhere
> near $20 an hour.

Yes, you are. An experienced mechanic that's ASE certified, along with other
certifications will. Will the typical guy right out of school? No. When I
sold cars back around 1997, I knew several mechanics that made $17/hr flat
rate then. Figure pay increases in the last 8 yrs. and I'd say they're
making about $22/hr or so now. Hell, I know a painter that worked for
$24/hr flat rate just a couple of years ago and earned over $100,000 that
particular year, but unfortunately lost the job because of a drinking
problem. However, he didn't work at a dealership, but rather an independent
shop.

> assuming you do eventually see $20 an hour it isnt
> really
> $20 an hour.

No, it's more because of flat rate. Do you understand the flat rate system?

> manufacturers set how many hours they allow for a repair and
> pay you accordingly.

Wrong. What the manufacturer's do is pay a lower rate to the _dealership_
for warranty work. The dealer may charge $60/hr. flat rate to a customer to
work on the car, but the manufacturer may pay only $45/hr. flat rate under
warranty work. Some dealerships shift some of that to the mechanic by
paying a lower rate. This is dealership specific, and there is no industry
standard as to what they pay the mechanic doing warranty work.

> for example, they may authorize 1 hour for changing
> an
> alternator even though it takes you 3 hours to change it. no matter how
> long it takes, youre getting paid for that 1 hour they allowed.

You've just described the flat rate system, which I clearly stated was how a
mechanic turns more hrs. a week than he actually works. Though some
problems sometimes require more time than the book labor time allotted,
most actually take less time. Typically, only repairs that are difficult to
track down problems (which they usually have a specialized mechanic called
a drivability mechanic) and ones that go horribly wrong will actually take
more time. Most jobs are completed in less time than the book allowed. This
is how mechanics can work 40 hr. weeks and turn 60 to 80 hrs book time.
I've never known a dealership mechanic that actually turned in less book
hrs. in a week than he actually physically worked.

> you might
> know dealership mechanics who work 80 hours per week but you can bet your
> scrotum that they arent getting paid for it.

No, they're working 40 or so hrs. a week, sometimes a little more as
dealerships rotate 2 guys to stay late on Wednesdays and/or Saturday half
days, and they turn 60 to 80 hrs a week flat rate.

YOU obviously don't know how it works. As a former car salesman that hung
out and talked quite a bit to the mechanics, I know all too well how it
works. We had 3 mechanics that made more money than our top salesman.


--

Registered Linux user #378193

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

Nathan W. Collier wrote:

> $20 per hour = $41,600 per year GROSS = lower medium income.
>
>> Most mechanics turned
>> around 80 book hrs. a week working a 5 day week from 8 AM to 5 PM, with
>> an hour lunch. Do the math: $20 x 80 = $1600 gross/wk = $83,200 per year
>> while
>> working 40 hrs. a week.
>
> if you honestly believe _any_ dealership mechanic is making $83k a year
> then you have no idea at just how ignorant you are to how it really works.

I do know how it works, and what I did was just use simple math, which is
more at the higher end, assuming a fast, competent mechanic. The reality is
that many mechanics only turn 60 hrs. some weeks, 70 hrs. others, and some
80 hr. weeks. They don't always get 80 book hrs. per week. Some mechanics
are more seasoned and capable than others and can turn nearly 80 hrs. a
week on a regular basis. Many, however, cannot. I've seen good mechanics
make real good money, and I've seen guys make average incomes not turning
in enough hrs. because they're slow or screw up.

However, they do make some decent money. They are NOT lower middle income.

> for starters, unless youve been there 15 years you arent going to see
> anywhere
> near $20 an hour.

Yes, you are. An experienced mechanic that's ASE certified, along with other
certifications will. Will the typical guy right out of school? No. When I
sold cars back around 1997, I knew several mechanics that made $17/hr flat
rate then. Figure pay increases in the last 8 yrs. and I'd say they're
making about $22/hr or so now. Hell, I know a painter that worked for
$24/hr flat rate just a couple of years ago and earned over $100,000 that
particular year, but unfortunately lost the job because of a drinking
problem. However, he didn't work at a dealership, but rather an independent
shop.

> assuming you do eventually see $20 an hour it isnt
> really
> $20 an hour.

No, it's more because of flat rate. Do you understand the flat rate system?

> manufacturers set how many hours they allow for a repair and
> pay you accordingly.

Wrong. What the manufacturer's do is pay a lower rate to the _dealership_
for warranty work. The dealer may charge $60/hr. flat rate to a customer to
work on the car, but the manufacturer may pay only $45/hr. flat rate under
warranty work. Some dealerships shift some of that to the mechanic by
paying a lower rate. This is dealership specific, and there is no industry
standard as to what they pay the mechanic doing warranty work.

> for example, they may authorize 1 hour for changing
> an
> alternator even though it takes you 3 hours to change it. no matter how
> long it takes, youre getting paid for that 1 hour they allowed.

You've just described the flat rate system, which I clearly stated was how a
mechanic turns more hrs. a week than he actually works. Though some
problems sometimes require more time than the book labor time allotted,
most actually take less time. Typically, only repairs that are difficult to
track down problems (which they usually have a specialized mechanic called
a drivability mechanic) and ones that go horribly wrong will actually take
more time. Most jobs are completed in less time than the book allowed. This
is how mechanics can work 40 hr. weeks and turn 60 to 80 hrs book time.
I've never known a dealership mechanic that actually turned in less book
hrs. in a week than he actually physically worked.

> you might
> know dealership mechanics who work 80 hours per week but you can bet your
> scrotum that they arent getting paid for it.

No, they're working 40 or so hrs. a week, sometimes a little more as
dealerships rotate 2 guys to stay late on Wednesdays and/or Saturday half
days, and they turn 60 to 80 hrs a week flat rate.

YOU obviously don't know how it works. As a former car salesman that hung
out and talked quite a bit to the mechanics, I know all too well how it
works. We had 3 mechanics that made more money than our top salesman.


--

Registered Linux user #378193

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

JohnM wrote:

>> And I have a 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sport with 146,000 on the odometer, and
>> it has only needed a clutch @ 143,000 and a new header since a weld has
>> now cracked in the original. It's still going strong and driven everyday.
>> This inline 6 was designed by AMC, which was not known for reliability,
>
> That motor certainly was known for reliability. Still is, for that matter.
>
> You're doing a good job on the pedal to get that milage from a clutch.

I was referring to AMC not being known for reliability, though I'm aware of
how great those 242/258 inline sixes are.

It was a bad day when that clutch let go...


--

Registered Linux user #378193

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

JohnM wrote:

>> And I have a 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sport with 146,000 on the odometer, and
>> it has only needed a clutch @ 143,000 and a new header since a weld has
>> now cracked in the original. It's still going strong and driven everyday.
>> This inline 6 was designed by AMC, which was not known for reliability,
>
> That motor certainly was known for reliability. Still is, for that matter.
>
> You're doing a good job on the pedal to get that milage from a clutch.

I was referring to AMC not being known for reliability, though I'm aware of
how great those 242/258 inline sixes are.

It was a bad day when that clutch let go...


--

Registered Linux user #378193

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

JohnM wrote:

>> And I have a 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sport with 146,000 on the odometer, and
>> it has only needed a clutch @ 143,000 and a new header since a weld has
>> now cracked in the original. It's still going strong and driven everyday.
>> This inline 6 was designed by AMC, which was not known for reliability,
>
> That motor certainly was known for reliability. Still is, for that matter.
>
> You're doing a good job on the pedal to get that milage from a clutch.

I was referring to AMC not being known for reliability, though I'm aware of
how great those 242/258 inline sixes are.

It was a bad day when that clutch let go...


--

Registered Linux user #378193

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

JohnM wrote:

>> And I have a 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sport with 146,000 on the odometer, and
>> it has only needed a clutch @ 143,000 and a new header since a weld has
>> now cracked in the original. It's still going strong and driven everyday.
>> This inline 6 was designed by AMC, which was not known for reliability,
>
> That motor certainly was known for reliability. Still is, for that matter.
>
> You're doing a good job on the pedal to get that milage from a clutch.

I was referring to AMC not being known for reliability, though I'm aware of
how great those 242/258 inline sixes are.

It was a bad day when that clutch let go...


--

Registered Linux user #378193

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

"Ruel Smith" <NoWay@NoWhere.com> wrote in message
news:5458e$429871d8$4275e08c$10448@FUSE.NET...
> YOU obviously don't know how it works.

heh....this coming from a guy who stated that dealership mechanics earn
$83,000 a year.

good luck. :-)

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

"Ruel Smith" <NoWay@NoWhere.com> wrote in message
news:5458e$429871d8$4275e08c$10448@FUSE.NET...
> YOU obviously don't know how it works.

heh....this coming from a guy who stated that dealership mechanics earn
$83,000 a year.

good luck. :-)

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

"Ruel Smith" <NoWay@NoWhere.com> wrote in message
news:5458e$429871d8$4275e08c$10448@FUSE.NET...
> YOU obviously don't know how it works.

heh....this coming from a guy who stated that dealership mechanics earn
$83,000 a year.

good luck. :-)

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

"Ruel Smith" <NoWay@NoWhere.com> wrote in message
news:5458e$429871d8$4275e08c$10448@FUSE.NET...
> YOU obviously don't know how it works.

heh....this coming from a guy who stated that dealership mechanics earn
$83,000 a year.

good luck. :-)

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

What reliability problems were there? People bashing American
products say that, but are never capable of giving us an example.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Ruel Smith wrote:
>
> I was referring to AMC not being known for reliability, though I'm aware of
> how great those 242/258 inline sixes are.
>
> It was a bad day when that clutch let go...
>
> --
>
> Registered Linux user #378193

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

What reliability problems were there? People bashing American
products say that, but are never capable of giving us an example.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Ruel Smith wrote:
>
> I was referring to AMC not being known for reliability, though I'm aware of
> how great those 242/258 inline sixes are.
>
> It was a bad day when that clutch let go...
>
> --
>
> Registered Linux user #378193

Re: Detroit Vs Japan
 

What reliability problems were there? People bashing American
products say that, but are never capable of giving us an example.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Ruel Smith wrote:
>
> I was referring to AMC not being known for reliability, though I'm aware of
> how great those 242/258 inline sixes are.
>
> It was a bad day when that clutch let go...
>
> --
>
> Registered Linux user #378193