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Re: dc relay
that being said....do you guys add diodes yourselves?
"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message news:UtFjc.268$Rd4.96425@attbi_s51... > Roughly 4/27/04 16:01, SB's monkeys randomly typed: > > > Hey guys, > > > > Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they polarized? > > > > I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg pole on > > the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference! > > You wouldn't need a polarity marking unless the relay has a diode > suppressor, in which case one would expect some manufacturer > willing to spend for the diode to spend to mark the polarity. > > -- > Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate > |
Re: dc relay
that being said....do you guys add diodes yourselves?
"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message news:UtFjc.268$Rd4.96425@attbi_s51... > Roughly 4/27/04 16:01, SB's monkeys randomly typed: > > > Hey guys, > > > > Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they polarized? > > > > I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg pole on > > the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference! > > You wouldn't need a polarity marking unless the relay has a diode > suppressor, in which case one would expect some manufacturer > willing to spend for the diode to spend to mark the polarity. > > -- > Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate > |
Re: dc relay
that being said....do you guys add diodes yourselves?
"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message news:UtFjc.268$Rd4.96425@attbi_s51... > Roughly 4/27/04 16:01, SB's monkeys randomly typed: > > > Hey guys, > > > > Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they polarized? > > > > I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg pole on > > the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference! > > You wouldn't need a polarity marking unless the relay has a diode > suppressor, in which case one would expect some manufacturer > willing to spend for the diode to spend to mark the polarity. > > -- > Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate > |
Re: dc relay
It does make 'some' difference.
I prefer to put power to the coil at the relay (hook pin 87 to pin 85) and use the switch for a ground only off pin 86 to fire the coil. This means I only need one small ground wire coming through the firewall to the switch. Hit the switch, this grounds the coil and fires the relay. No fuses needed on this side of the wiring, only on the primary power. You can also make a 'latching' relay if you wire it right so it holds 'on' until the key cuts the power. No diodes are needed normally with these mechanical relays unless you are playing around with LED's. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's SB wrote: > > I'm such a doped up spaz!! lol > I just read the link I put in there and it don't make a difference which > gets what.... > > I swear guys...I haven't been eating paint chips!! > > "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:cCDjc.301907$2oI1.75276@twister01.bloor.is.ne t.cable.rogers.com... > > Thanks Scotty/Bill.... > > > > I understand how a relay works....I'm an electronics tech and don't like > to > > 'test' polarities if I can help it! :D > > > > These aren't "cheap" relays relative to manufacturing (ok, it probably was > a > > philipian sweat-shop -- they do great work!) but were "cheap" in relation > to > > being surplus and were on sale! > > > > I know they put on 'fold-back' (or feedback) diodes to help prevent the > > coils from discharging back in to the line (ok, I said I'm an EL-tech and > > now can't remember if it only applied to AC designs!). > > > > I'm working off the flu and have been OD'ing on cold medicine. I'm > useless > > lol too much! > > > > Anyhow, here's a link I found that has the perscribed numbering on the > > bottom of the relay. > > (look at 2nd image down) > > http://www.stu-offroad.com/misc/lights-1.htm > > This tells me at least that there are certain pins used for defined > > polarities....not that it isn't swappable....but....I dunno. > > > > Where's my buckleys! > > > > > > > > "Scotty" <gotcherpicher@aol.common> wrote in message > > news:20040427202017.17108.00000441@mb-m13.aol.com... > > > "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> writes: > > > > > > > Hey guys, > > > > > > > > Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they > > polarized? > > > > > > > > I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg > > pole on > > > > the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference! > > > > > > > > sb > > > > > > The DC polarity of conventional electromechanical relay windings usually > > isn't > > > an issue; if they won't work one way, switch the wires to hook 'em up > the > > > other. There are very sensitive relays that have magnetized cotact > > armatures > > > and thus the polarity of the winding current is important. But because > you > > say > > > you got these relays "cheap," I doubt that you'll have trouble with > > polarity. > > > > > > Rather than winding polarity, what's important about relays are the > > voltage and > > > current ratings of both the winding and the contacts. These ratings are > > usually > > > stamped or embossed on the base. Be sure that you don't apply too much > > voltage > > > to the winding or you'll burn it out, and make sure that your power > source > > can > > > supply enough current for it to operate. With a car battery, the winding > > > current draw won't be an issue as long as the winding voltage is rated > for > > at > > > least 12-16 volts. > > > > > > As far as the contacts are concerned, don't exceed their voltage rating > or > > > they'll arc. And (probably most important) make sure that the load > doesn't > > draw > > > more current than the contacts can handle. If your load current draw > > exceeds > > > the contact current capacity, you'll weld the contacts shut, melt them, > > start a > > > fire, or all of the above. Automotive applications are by nature > > > low-voltage/high-current devices, so automotive relays are designed > > > accordingly; really fat, beefy contacts with a short-throw armature. > > > > > > Scotty > > > '99 TJ 4.0L > > > '99 XJ 4.0L > > > '03 BMW Z4 > > > > > > *** No animals were harmed during the production of this reply *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
Re: dc relay
It does make 'some' difference.
I prefer to put power to the coil at the relay (hook pin 87 to pin 85) and use the switch for a ground only off pin 86 to fire the coil. This means I only need one small ground wire coming through the firewall to the switch. Hit the switch, this grounds the coil and fires the relay. No fuses needed on this side of the wiring, only on the primary power. You can also make a 'latching' relay if you wire it right so it holds 'on' until the key cuts the power. No diodes are needed normally with these mechanical relays unless you are playing around with LED's. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's SB wrote: > > I'm such a doped up spaz!! lol > I just read the link I put in there and it don't make a difference which > gets what.... > > I swear guys...I haven't been eating paint chips!! > > "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:cCDjc.301907$2oI1.75276@twister01.bloor.is.ne t.cable.rogers.com... > > Thanks Scotty/Bill.... > > > > I understand how a relay works....I'm an electronics tech and don't like > to > > 'test' polarities if I can help it! :D > > > > These aren't "cheap" relays relative to manufacturing (ok, it probably was > a > > philipian sweat-shop -- they do great work!) but were "cheap" in relation > to > > being surplus and were on sale! > > > > I know they put on 'fold-back' (or feedback) diodes to help prevent the > > coils from discharging back in to the line (ok, I said I'm an EL-tech and > > now can't remember if it only applied to AC designs!). > > > > I'm working off the flu and have been OD'ing on cold medicine. I'm > useless > > lol too much! > > > > Anyhow, here's a link I found that has the perscribed numbering on the > > bottom of the relay. > > (look at 2nd image down) > > http://www.stu-offroad.com/misc/lights-1.htm > > This tells me at least that there are certain pins used for defined > > polarities....not that it isn't swappable....but....I dunno. > > > > Where's my buckleys! > > > > > > > > "Scotty" <gotcherpicher@aol.common> wrote in message > > news:20040427202017.17108.00000441@mb-m13.aol.com... > > > "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> writes: > > > > > > > Hey guys, > > > > > > > > Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they > > polarized? > > > > > > > > I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg > > pole on > > > > the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference! > > > > > > > > sb > > > > > > The DC polarity of conventional electromechanical relay windings usually > > isn't > > > an issue; if they won't work one way, switch the wires to hook 'em up > the > > > other. There are very sensitive relays that have magnetized cotact > > armatures > > > and thus the polarity of the winding current is important. But because > you > > say > > > you got these relays "cheap," I doubt that you'll have trouble with > > polarity. > > > > > > Rather than winding polarity, what's important about relays are the > > voltage and > > > current ratings of both the winding and the contacts. These ratings are > > usually > > > stamped or embossed on the base. Be sure that you don't apply too much > > voltage > > > to the winding or you'll burn it out, and make sure that your power > source > > can > > > supply enough current for it to operate. With a car battery, the winding > > > current draw won't be an issue as long as the winding voltage is rated > for > > at > > > least 12-16 volts. > > > > > > As far as the contacts are concerned, don't exceed their voltage rating > or > > > they'll arc. And (probably most important) make sure that the load > doesn't > > draw > > > more current than the contacts can handle. If your load current draw > > exceeds > > > the contact current capacity, you'll weld the contacts shut, melt them, > > start a > > > fire, or all of the above. Automotive applications are by nature > > > low-voltage/high-current devices, so automotive relays are designed > > > accordingly; really fat, beefy contacts with a short-throw armature. > > > > > > Scotty > > > '99 TJ 4.0L > > > '99 XJ 4.0L > > > '03 BMW Z4 > > > > > > *** No animals were harmed during the production of this reply *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
Re: dc relay
It does make 'some' difference.
I prefer to put power to the coil at the relay (hook pin 87 to pin 85) and use the switch for a ground only off pin 86 to fire the coil. This means I only need one small ground wire coming through the firewall to the switch. Hit the switch, this grounds the coil and fires the relay. No fuses needed on this side of the wiring, only on the primary power. You can also make a 'latching' relay if you wire it right so it holds 'on' until the key cuts the power. No diodes are needed normally with these mechanical relays unless you are playing around with LED's. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's SB wrote: > > I'm such a doped up spaz!! lol > I just read the link I put in there and it don't make a difference which > gets what.... > > I swear guys...I haven't been eating paint chips!! > > "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:cCDjc.301907$2oI1.75276@twister01.bloor.is.ne t.cable.rogers.com... > > Thanks Scotty/Bill.... > > > > I understand how a relay works....I'm an electronics tech and don't like > to > > 'test' polarities if I can help it! :D > > > > These aren't "cheap" relays relative to manufacturing (ok, it probably was > a > > philipian sweat-shop -- they do great work!) but were "cheap" in relation > to > > being surplus and were on sale! > > > > I know they put on 'fold-back' (or feedback) diodes to help prevent the > > coils from discharging back in to the line (ok, I said I'm an EL-tech and > > now can't remember if it only applied to AC designs!). > > > > I'm working off the flu and have been OD'ing on cold medicine. I'm > useless > > lol too much! > > > > Anyhow, here's a link I found that has the perscribed numbering on the > > bottom of the relay. > > (look at 2nd image down) > > http://www.stu-offroad.com/misc/lights-1.htm > > This tells me at least that there are certain pins used for defined > > polarities....not that it isn't swappable....but....I dunno. > > > > Where's my buckleys! > > > > > > > > "Scotty" <gotcherpicher@aol.common> wrote in message > > news:20040427202017.17108.00000441@mb-m13.aol.com... > > > "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> writes: > > > > > > > Hey guys, > > > > > > > > Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they > > polarized? > > > > > > > > I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg > > pole on > > > > the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference! > > > > > > > > sb > > > > > > The DC polarity of conventional electromechanical relay windings usually > > isn't > > > an issue; if they won't work one way, switch the wires to hook 'em up > the > > > other. There are very sensitive relays that have magnetized cotact > > armatures > > > and thus the polarity of the winding current is important. But because > you > > say > > > you got these relays "cheap," I doubt that you'll have trouble with > > polarity. > > > > > > Rather than winding polarity, what's important about relays are the > > voltage and > > > current ratings of both the winding and the contacts. These ratings are > > usually > > > stamped or embossed on the base. Be sure that you don't apply too much > > voltage > > > to the winding or you'll burn it out, and make sure that your power > source > > can > > > supply enough current for it to operate. With a car battery, the winding > > > current draw won't be an issue as long as the winding voltage is rated > for > > at > > > least 12-16 volts. > > > > > > As far as the contacts are concerned, don't exceed their voltage rating > or > > > they'll arc. And (probably most important) make sure that the load > doesn't > > draw > > > more current than the contacts can handle. If your load current draw > > exceeds > > > the contact current capacity, you'll weld the contacts shut, melt them, > > start a > > > fire, or all of the above. Automotive applications are by nature > > > low-voltage/high-current devices, so automotive relays are designed > > > accordingly; really fat, beefy contacts with a short-throw armature. > > > > > > Scotty > > > '99 TJ 4.0L > > > '99 XJ 4.0L > > > '03 BMW Z4 > > > > > > *** No animals were harmed during the production of this reply *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
Re: dc relay
It does make 'some' difference.
I prefer to put power to the coil at the relay (hook pin 87 to pin 85) and use the switch for a ground only off pin 86 to fire the coil. This means I only need one small ground wire coming through the firewall to the switch. Hit the switch, this grounds the coil and fires the relay. No fuses needed on this side of the wiring, only on the primary power. You can also make a 'latching' relay if you wire it right so it holds 'on' until the key cuts the power. No diodes are needed normally with these mechanical relays unless you are playing around with LED's. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's SB wrote: > > I'm such a doped up spaz!! lol > I just read the link I put in there and it don't make a difference which > gets what.... > > I swear guys...I haven't been eating paint chips!! > > "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:cCDjc.301907$2oI1.75276@twister01.bloor.is.ne t.cable.rogers.com... > > Thanks Scotty/Bill.... > > > > I understand how a relay works....I'm an electronics tech and don't like > to > > 'test' polarities if I can help it! :D > > > > These aren't "cheap" relays relative to manufacturing (ok, it probably was > a > > philipian sweat-shop -- they do great work!) but were "cheap" in relation > to > > being surplus and were on sale! > > > > I know they put on 'fold-back' (or feedback) diodes to help prevent the > > coils from discharging back in to the line (ok, I said I'm an EL-tech and > > now can't remember if it only applied to AC designs!). > > > > I'm working off the flu and have been OD'ing on cold medicine. I'm > useless > > lol too much! > > > > Anyhow, here's a link I found that has the perscribed numbering on the > > bottom of the relay. > > (look at 2nd image down) > > http://www.stu-offroad.com/misc/lights-1.htm > > This tells me at least that there are certain pins used for defined > > polarities....not that it isn't swappable....but....I dunno. > > > > Where's my buckleys! > > > > > > > > "Scotty" <gotcherpicher@aol.common> wrote in message > > news:20040427202017.17108.00000441@mb-m13.aol.com... > > > "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> writes: > > > > > > > Hey guys, > > > > > > > > Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they > > polarized? > > > > > > > > I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg > > pole on > > > > the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference! > > > > > > > > sb > > > > > > The DC polarity of conventional electromechanical relay windings usually > > isn't > > > an issue; if they won't work one way, switch the wires to hook 'em up > the > > > other. There are very sensitive relays that have magnetized cotact > > armatures > > > and thus the polarity of the winding current is important. But because > you > > say > > > you got these relays "cheap," I doubt that you'll have trouble with > > polarity. > > > > > > Rather than winding polarity, what's important about relays are the > > voltage and > > > current ratings of both the winding and the contacts. These ratings are > > usually > > > stamped or embossed on the base. Be sure that you don't apply too much > > voltage > > > to the winding or you'll burn it out, and make sure that your power > source > > can > > > supply enough current for it to operate. With a car battery, the winding > > > current draw won't be an issue as long as the winding voltage is rated > for > > at > > > least 12-16 volts. > > > > > > As far as the contacts are concerned, don't exceed their voltage rating > or > > > they'll arc. And (probably most important) make sure that the load > doesn't > > draw > > > more current than the contacts can handle. If your load current draw > > exceeds > > > the contact current capacity, you'll weld the contacts shut, melt them, > > start a > > > fire, or all of the above. Automotive applications are by nature > > > low-voltage/high-current devices, so automotive relays are designed > > > accordingly; really fat, beefy contacts with a short-throw armature. > > > > > > Scotty > > > '99 TJ 4.0L > > > '99 XJ 4.0L > > > '03 BMW Z4 > > > > > > *** No animals were harmed during the production of this reply *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
Re: dc relay
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:01:48 GMT, the following appeared in
rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys, posted by "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com>: >Hey guys, > >Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they polarized? > >I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg pole on >the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference! The only way DC relays are "polarized" is if they have diodes across the coils (there to prevent inductive kick when the coil drive opens). If they do, the coil must be connected so that the diode is reverse-biased (cathode to positive, anode to negative). With an ohmmeter, you can usually tell if this is the case, assuming the coil resistance is greater than 20 ohms or so, since the diode will conduct when forward-biased. -- Bob C. Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net (without the spaces, of course) "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov |
Re: dc relay
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:01:48 GMT, the following appeared in
rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys, posted by "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com>: >Hey guys, > >Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they polarized? > >I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg pole on >the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference! The only way DC relays are "polarized" is if they have diodes across the coils (there to prevent inductive kick when the coil drive opens). If they do, the coil must be connected so that the diode is reverse-biased (cathode to positive, anode to negative). With an ohmmeter, you can usually tell if this is the case, assuming the coil resistance is greater than 20 ohms or so, since the diode will conduct when forward-biased. -- Bob C. Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net (without the spaces, of course) "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov |
Re: dc relay
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:01:48 GMT, the following appeared in
rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys, posted by "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com>: >Hey guys, > >Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they polarized? > >I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg pole on >the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference! The only way DC relays are "polarized" is if they have diodes across the coils (there to prevent inductive kick when the coil drive opens). If they do, the coil must be connected so that the diode is reverse-biased (cathode to positive, anode to negative). With an ohmmeter, you can usually tell if this is the case, assuming the coil resistance is greater than 20 ohms or so, since the diode will conduct when forward-biased. -- Bob C. Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net (without the spaces, of course) "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov |
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