Dana Corp files for bankruptcy
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana Corp files for bankruptcy
"Lee Ayrton" <layrton@panix.com> wrote in message
news:dufk7f$a4n$1@reader2.panix.com...
> And an opinion: Employers generally get the unions that they deserve. Beat
> your employees regularly, cheat them out of every dime you can and make
> them watch while you blow your nose into a wad of cash, screw them over
> just for fun and you'll find yourself facing a cigar-chomping,
> tire-slashing, sloganeering contract negotiator who will be happy to shut
> you down until the cows come home and your customers have all gone
> elsewhere.
>
Unions began to help workers from being taken advantage of by robber-baron
manufacturers, so the workers would get a fair wage and a fair share of
benefits for the work they do. However, the last 30 year or so has seen
labor unions redefine what is "fair" to "get everything you can and threaten
to walk out on the job if you can't negotiate a contract to give a worker
with a barely-earned high school diploma $27/hr to work on an assembly line
tightening four bolts, four weeks vacation, and Mickey Mouse's birthday
off." During the high times of the 90's, the manufacturers were happy to
oblige without thinking long-term, and unfortunately in created a sense of
entitlement to the union workers.
I live in Southeast Michigan, half the blue collar jobs are Big Three or OEM
supplier assembly line jobs. A friend of mine worked for an OEM supplier a
few years ago on the line, and when he started his union steward told him to
go in the break room and watch TV when he finished his daily quota. Some
days he actually worked on the line 3 hours during an 8-hour shift.
My bank manager is friends with a local Ford assembly plant manager, and he
told her when he started at the plant, he had to put a stop to a group of
line employees bringing in a barbecue grill every day into the plant, on the
floor, making hamburgers and hot dogs and selling them to the other workers.
Of course they complained to the union steward and the old manager looked
the other way, but the new guy wasn't scared of the union.
The combination of management failures and union greed produced the current
problems, and once GM or Ford is "shut down until the cows come home," will
the union help all those people find new jobs? And who would want to hire a
worker that is used to getting paid eight hours when he works for three?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana Corp files for bankruptcy
There is still a blacksmith shop down past my sister's place. They have
more business than they can handle.
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:i7idnbkHdvPP0pbZRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
> Well, I am still bummed out by the recent National Blacksmith Memorial
> ceremonies, where the Chariot Makers Guild were the honored guests, with
> the Fraternal Order of Mammoth Handlers providing a special treat with
> their precision drill team.
>
>
>
> Lee Ayrton proclaimed:
>
>> Where to draw the line indeed. I don't see anyone renting their robes
>> over the demise of companies that once made trolley cars (killed by
>> affordable automobiles) or diner cars (killed by chain eateries).
>>
>> Here's a little more depth on what has happened to Dana -- which, by the
>> way, is still turning a profit in its overseas operations.
>> <URL:http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/BUSINESS03/603050315>
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> And your great, great, great granddad would roll over in his grave if he
>>> knew you were driving at all, instead of riding a horse. Where do you
>>> draw the line about living in the past?
>>> __________________________________________________ ___________________
>>> 2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
>>>
>>> "There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."
>>>
>>> Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940
>>>
>>> Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
>>> A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
>>> capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
>>> __________________________________________________ ___________________
>>>
>>> Terry Jeffrey wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yup, and GM & Ford because everybody in the country these days are
>>>> driving their pretty new Toyotas and Hondas. How easily people forget.
>>>> My old granddad would roll over in his grave if I ever bought a Jap.
>>>> auto.
>>>>
>>>> Terry
more business than they can handle.
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:i7idnbkHdvPP0pbZRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
> Well, I am still bummed out by the recent National Blacksmith Memorial
> ceremonies, where the Chariot Makers Guild were the honored guests, with
> the Fraternal Order of Mammoth Handlers providing a special treat with
> their precision drill team.
>
>
>
> Lee Ayrton proclaimed:
>
>> Where to draw the line indeed. I don't see anyone renting their robes
>> over the demise of companies that once made trolley cars (killed by
>> affordable automobiles) or diner cars (killed by chain eateries).
>>
>> Here's a little more depth on what has happened to Dana -- which, by the
>> way, is still turning a profit in its overseas operations.
>> <URL:http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/BUSINESS03/603050315>
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> And your great, great, great granddad would roll over in his grave if he
>>> knew you were driving at all, instead of riding a horse. Where do you
>>> draw the line about living in the past?
>>> __________________________________________________ ___________________
>>> 2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
>>>
>>> "There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."
>>>
>>> Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940
>>>
>>> Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
>>> A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
>>> capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
>>> __________________________________________________ ___________________
>>>
>>> Terry Jeffrey wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yup, and GM & Ford because everybody in the country these days are
>>>> driving their pretty new Toyotas and Hondas. How easily people forget.
>>>> My old granddad would roll over in his grave if I ever bought a Jap.
>>>> auto.
>>>>
>>>> Terry
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana Corp files for bankruptcy
There is still a blacksmith shop down past my sister's place. They have
more business than they can handle.
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:i7idnbkHdvPP0pbZRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
> Well, I am still bummed out by the recent National Blacksmith Memorial
> ceremonies, where the Chariot Makers Guild were the honored guests, with
> the Fraternal Order of Mammoth Handlers providing a special treat with
> their precision drill team.
>
>
>
> Lee Ayrton proclaimed:
>
>> Where to draw the line indeed. I don't see anyone renting their robes
>> over the demise of companies that once made trolley cars (killed by
>> affordable automobiles) or diner cars (killed by chain eateries).
>>
>> Here's a little more depth on what has happened to Dana -- which, by the
>> way, is still turning a profit in its overseas operations.
>> <URL:http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/BUSINESS03/603050315>
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> And your great, great, great granddad would roll over in his grave if he
>>> knew you were driving at all, instead of riding a horse. Where do you
>>> draw the line about living in the past?
>>> __________________________________________________ ___________________
>>> 2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
>>>
>>> "There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."
>>>
>>> Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940
>>>
>>> Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
>>> A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
>>> capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
>>> __________________________________________________ ___________________
>>>
>>> Terry Jeffrey wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yup, and GM & Ford because everybody in the country these days are
>>>> driving their pretty new Toyotas and Hondas. How easily people forget.
>>>> My old granddad would roll over in his grave if I ever bought a Jap.
>>>> auto.
>>>>
>>>> Terry
more business than they can handle.
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:i7idnbkHdvPP0pbZRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
> Well, I am still bummed out by the recent National Blacksmith Memorial
> ceremonies, where the Chariot Makers Guild were the honored guests, with
> the Fraternal Order of Mammoth Handlers providing a special treat with
> their precision drill team.
>
>
>
> Lee Ayrton proclaimed:
>
>> Where to draw the line indeed. I don't see anyone renting their robes
>> over the demise of companies that once made trolley cars (killed by
>> affordable automobiles) or diner cars (killed by chain eateries).
>>
>> Here's a little more depth on what has happened to Dana -- which, by the
>> way, is still turning a profit in its overseas operations.
>> <URL:http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/BUSINESS03/603050315>
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> And your great, great, great granddad would roll over in his grave if he
>>> knew you were driving at all, instead of riding a horse. Where do you
>>> draw the line about living in the past?
>>> __________________________________________________ ___________________
>>> 2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
>>>
>>> "There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."
>>>
>>> Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940
>>>
>>> Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
>>> A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
>>> capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
>>> __________________________________________________ ___________________
>>>
>>> Terry Jeffrey wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yup, and GM & Ford because everybody in the country these days are
>>>> driving their pretty new Toyotas and Hondas. How easily people forget.
>>>> My old granddad would roll over in his grave if I ever bought a Jap.
>>>> auto.
>>>>
>>>> Terry
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana Corp files for bankruptcy
There is still a blacksmith shop down past my sister's place. They have
more business than they can handle.
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:i7idnbkHdvPP0pbZRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
> Well, I am still bummed out by the recent National Blacksmith Memorial
> ceremonies, where the Chariot Makers Guild were the honored guests, with
> the Fraternal Order of Mammoth Handlers providing a special treat with
> their precision drill team.
>
>
>
> Lee Ayrton proclaimed:
>
>> Where to draw the line indeed. I don't see anyone renting their robes
>> over the demise of companies that once made trolley cars (killed by
>> affordable automobiles) or diner cars (killed by chain eateries).
>>
>> Here's a little more depth on what has happened to Dana -- which, by the
>> way, is still turning a profit in its overseas operations.
>> <URL:http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/BUSINESS03/603050315>
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> And your great, great, great granddad would roll over in his grave if he
>>> knew you were driving at all, instead of riding a horse. Where do you
>>> draw the line about living in the past?
>>> __________________________________________________ ___________________
>>> 2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
>>>
>>> "There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."
>>>
>>> Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940
>>>
>>> Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
>>> A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
>>> capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
>>> __________________________________________________ ___________________
>>>
>>> Terry Jeffrey wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yup, and GM & Ford because everybody in the country these days are
>>>> driving their pretty new Toyotas and Hondas. How easily people forget.
>>>> My old granddad would roll over in his grave if I ever bought a Jap.
>>>> auto.
>>>>
>>>> Terry
more business than they can handle.
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:i7idnbkHdvPP0pbZRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
> Well, I am still bummed out by the recent National Blacksmith Memorial
> ceremonies, where the Chariot Makers Guild were the honored guests, with
> the Fraternal Order of Mammoth Handlers providing a special treat with
> their precision drill team.
>
>
>
> Lee Ayrton proclaimed:
>
>> Where to draw the line indeed. I don't see anyone renting their robes
>> over the demise of companies that once made trolley cars (killed by
>> affordable automobiles) or diner cars (killed by chain eateries).
>>
>> Here's a little more depth on what has happened to Dana -- which, by the
>> way, is still turning a profit in its overseas operations.
>> <URL:http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/BUSINESS03/603050315>
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> And your great, great, great granddad would roll over in his grave if he
>>> knew you were driving at all, instead of riding a horse. Where do you
>>> draw the line about living in the past?
>>> __________________________________________________ ___________________
>>> 2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
>>>
>>> "There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."
>>>
>>> Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940
>>>
>>> Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
>>> A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
>>> capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
>>> __________________________________________________ ___________________
>>>
>>> Terry Jeffrey wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yup, and GM & Ford because everybody in the country these days are
>>>> driving their pretty new Toyotas and Hondas. How easily people forget.
>>>> My old granddad would roll over in his grave if I ever bought a Jap.
>>>> auto.
>>>>
>>>> Terry
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana Corp files for bankruptcy
There is still a blacksmith shop down past my sister's place. They have
more business than they can handle.
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:i7idnbkHdvPP0pbZRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
> Well, I am still bummed out by the recent National Blacksmith Memorial
> ceremonies, where the Chariot Makers Guild were the honored guests, with
> the Fraternal Order of Mammoth Handlers providing a special treat with
> their precision drill team.
>
>
>
> Lee Ayrton proclaimed:
>
>> Where to draw the line indeed. I don't see anyone renting their robes
>> over the demise of companies that once made trolley cars (killed by
>> affordable automobiles) or diner cars (killed by chain eateries).
>>
>> Here's a little more depth on what has happened to Dana -- which, by the
>> way, is still turning a profit in its overseas operations.
>> <URL:http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/BUSINESS03/603050315>
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> And your great, great, great granddad would roll over in his grave if he
>>> knew you were driving at all, instead of riding a horse. Where do you
>>> draw the line about living in the past?
>>> __________________________________________________ ___________________
>>> 2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
>>>
>>> "There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."
>>>
>>> Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940
>>>
>>> Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
>>> A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
>>> capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
>>> __________________________________________________ ___________________
>>>
>>> Terry Jeffrey wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yup, and GM & Ford because everybody in the country these days are
>>>> driving their pretty new Toyotas and Hondas. How easily people forget.
>>>> My old granddad would roll over in his grave if I ever bought a Jap.
>>>> auto.
>>>>
>>>> Terry
more business than they can handle.
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:i7idnbkHdvPP0pbZRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
> Well, I am still bummed out by the recent National Blacksmith Memorial
> ceremonies, where the Chariot Makers Guild were the honored guests, with
> the Fraternal Order of Mammoth Handlers providing a special treat with
> their precision drill team.
>
>
>
> Lee Ayrton proclaimed:
>
>> Where to draw the line indeed. I don't see anyone renting their robes
>> over the demise of companies that once made trolley cars (killed by
>> affordable automobiles) or diner cars (killed by chain eateries).
>>
>> Here's a little more depth on what has happened to Dana -- which, by the
>> way, is still turning a profit in its overseas operations.
>> <URL:http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/BUSINESS03/603050315>
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> And your great, great, great granddad would roll over in his grave if he
>>> knew you were driving at all, instead of riding a horse. Where do you
>>> draw the line about living in the past?
>>> __________________________________________________ ___________________
>>> 2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
>>>
>>> "There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."
>>>
>>> Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940
>>>
>>> Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
>>> A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
>>> capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
>>> __________________________________________________ ___________________
>>>
>>> Terry Jeffrey wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yup, and GM & Ford because everybody in the country these days are
>>>> driving their pretty new Toyotas and Hondas. How easily people forget.
>>>> My old granddad would roll over in his grave if I ever bought a Jap.
>>>> auto.
>>>>
>>>> Terry
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana Corp files for bankruptcy
On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:24:12 -0500, Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com>
wrote:
>An observation: I'm shocked at the anger exhibited towards pensioners.
I'm not angry with the pensioners as long as I don't have to pay their
pension. I've worked every bit as long and probably a lot harder
than they have and the only pension I have is my savings.
Why do they think they should have a pension at my expense? They can
take it out of Ford's or GM's hide for all I care, but I resent very
much reducing my pension to pay for their's.
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
wrote:
>An observation: I'm shocked at the anger exhibited towards pensioners.
I'm not angry with the pensioners as long as I don't have to pay their
pension. I've worked every bit as long and probably a lot harder
than they have and the only pension I have is my savings.
Why do they think they should have a pension at my expense? They can
take it out of Ford's or GM's hide for all I care, but I resent very
much reducing my pension to pay for their's.
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana Corp files for bankruptcy
On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:24:12 -0500, Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com>
wrote:
>An observation: I'm shocked at the anger exhibited towards pensioners.
I'm not angry with the pensioners as long as I don't have to pay their
pension. I've worked every bit as long and probably a lot harder
than they have and the only pension I have is my savings.
Why do they think they should have a pension at my expense? They can
take it out of Ford's or GM's hide for all I care, but I resent very
much reducing my pension to pay for their's.
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
wrote:
>An observation: I'm shocked at the anger exhibited towards pensioners.
I'm not angry with the pensioners as long as I don't have to pay their
pension. I've worked every bit as long and probably a lot harder
than they have and the only pension I have is my savings.
Why do they think they should have a pension at my expense? They can
take it out of Ford's or GM's hide for all I care, but I resent very
much reducing my pension to pay for their's.
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana Corp files for bankruptcy
On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:24:12 -0500, Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com>
wrote:
>An observation: I'm shocked at the anger exhibited towards pensioners.
I'm not angry with the pensioners as long as I don't have to pay their
pension. I've worked every bit as long and probably a lot harder
than they have and the only pension I have is my savings.
Why do they think they should have a pension at my expense? They can
take it out of Ford's or GM's hide for all I care, but I resent very
much reducing my pension to pay for their's.
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
wrote:
>An observation: I'm shocked at the anger exhibited towards pensioners.
I'm not angry with the pensioners as long as I don't have to pay their
pension. I've worked every bit as long and probably a lot harder
than they have and the only pension I have is my savings.
Why do they think they should have a pension at my expense? They can
take it out of Ford's or GM's hide for all I care, but I resent very
much reducing my pension to pay for their's.
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana Corp files for bankruptcy
On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:24:12 -0500, Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com>
wrote:
>An observation: I'm shocked at the anger exhibited towards pensioners.
I'm not angry with the pensioners as long as I don't have to pay their
pension. I've worked every bit as long and probably a lot harder
than they have and the only pension I have is my savings.
Why do they think they should have a pension at my expense? They can
take it out of Ford's or GM's hide for all I care, but I resent very
much reducing my pension to pay for their's.
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
wrote:
>An observation: I'm shocked at the anger exhibited towards pensioners.
I'm not angry with the pensioners as long as I don't have to pay their
pension. I've worked every bit as long and probably a lot harder
than they have and the only pension I have is my savings.
Why do they think they should have a pension at my expense? They can
take it out of Ford's or GM's hide for all I care, but I resent very
much reducing my pension to pay for their's.
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana Corp files for bankruptcy
That $27/per hour doesn't include their benefit package which is probably
worth that much or more on a per hour basis.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/13864806.htm
"Total labor cost per hour for GM and Ford is now $65.90 an hour, including
$35.36 in wages and $30.54 in benefits, health-care and retirement costs."
UAW members are being asked to pay a pittance of the medical costs with
their annual contribution about the same as a monthly charge for
individually purchased coverage.
I am not sure where you got the $15K figure but if you compare that the auto
companies want workers to pay about $700 per year on their insurance you see
that their contribution is about 5% of its cost.
I have no anger toward retirees. I was stating the reality that companies
are intent to break the unions and dump the retirement programs on the
taxpayer. This is occurring in bankrupsy courts today within the auto and
airline companies.
I agree with most of your comment about workers and employers both getting
the treatment they deserve.
We had a GM assembly plant in a town nearby and I am well aware of the
shenanigans on both sides. This tit-for-tat is probably one of the reasons
the plant closed in addition to the plant mis-management.
"Lee Ayrton" <layrton@panix.com> wrote in message
news:dufk7f$a4n$1@reader2.panix.com...
>I won't bore you with pointing out where I agree and disagree with your
>opinions below, but I'd like make a few points.
>
> * The base wage at Delphi is $27.00 an hour, which doesn't meet my sniff
> test for obscene. Yes, some of its workers had been making 6-figures for
> years, but they were relying on overtime.
> * The average annual cost of insuring a US family this year will be about
> $15,000, and it won't ever be going back down.
>
> An observation: I'm shocked at the anger exhibited towards pensioners.
>
> And an opinion: Employers generally get the unions that they deserve. Beat
> your employees regularly, cheat them out of every dime you can and make
> them watch while you blow your nose into a wad of cash, screw them over
> just for fun and you'll find yourself facing a cigar-chomping,
> tire-slashing, sloganeering contract negotiator who will be happy to shut
> you down until the cows come home and your customers have all gone
> elsewhere.
>
>
> billy ray wrote:
>> The companies are in "dire straits" because of mismanagement and the
>> greed of the auto worker unions.
>>
>> The auto executives have only looked at short term goals for, at least,
>> three decades now and have given little thought to the long term health
>> of their companies.
>>
>> Their shortsightedness led to 10-15 years worth of cars that were only
>> occasionally capable of being made to run properly
>>
>> I could also include their arrogance with their belief that consumers
>> will be happy with whatever they built but that is an other story.
>>
>> Had the auto companies been financed and advised by 'professional'
>> financiers and not by bean counters, lawyers, and bankers concerned about
>> making that extra penny today then perhaps things might be different.
>>
>> Had the auto workers not been in controlled by organized crime and in bed
>> with the communists things might have been different.
>>
>> This came as no surprise to anyone as both sides understood each other
>> perfectly well. Both sides had officials whose sole duty was to devise
>> ways of screwing the other side but no one to promote cooperation.
>>
>> The union workers have been making obscene wage and benefit packages for
>> decades and for a long time the auto consumer was willing and able to
>> support this excess. The unions are still concerned only with what they
>> can get in 'this' contract.... screw the companies long term health.
>>
>> The executives are making obscene salaries and vote themselves huge
>> bonuses every year....... It makes perfect sense to me after all....this
>> year they lost 100 million dollars less than they did last year....
>>
>> But management may not have been as incompetent as we believed. perhaps
>> they sought to intentionally run the company into bankrupsy. The court
>> will allow them to then break their contracts with the unions and the
>> federal government will take over the pensions and offer reduced benefits
>> paid not by the company but by the taxpayer. Of course..... the
>> executive board will then vote them even more extravagant bonuses and
>> perks for returning their company to financial health......
>>
>> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
>> news:FOudnURAuZycgZbZRVn-og@comcast.com...
>>
>>>Half my Ford is made of components made in Mexico.
>>>
>>>GM and Ford are in financial dire straits because their labor costs are
>>>out of control, health insurance, pensions, etc.
>>>
>>>"Terry Jeffrey" <twjeffrey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1141577288_2369@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
>>>
>>>>Yup, and GM & Ford because everybody in the country these days are
>>>>driving their pretty new Toyotas and Hondas. How easily people forget.
>>>>My old granddad would roll over in his grave if I ever bought a Jap.
>>>>auto.
>>>>
>>>>Terry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Nathan W. Collier" <Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:u%6Of.25$Ys1.1150@news.uswest.net...
>>>>
>>>>>"mabar" <xyzz4569@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>>>>>news:4408ef0a_1@newsfeed.slurp.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>>I wonder how this will affect Jeep?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...fer=news_index
>>>>>
>>>>>winchester, dana, so many others......this is what happens when you
>>>>>sell your soul to china, one walmart basket full of chinese crap at a
>>>>>time.
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>Nathan W. Collier
>>>>>http://UtilityOffRoad.com
>>>>>http://7SlotGrille.com
>>
>> Path:
>> reader2.panix.com!reader1.panix.com!panix!newsfeed .media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.news.ucla.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!a rclight.uoregon.edu!feednews.vanderbilt.edu!feed.n ews.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail
>> From: "Nathan W. Collier" <Nathan@NoSpam.com>
>> Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.jeep+******
>> References: <4408ef0a_1@newsfeed.slurp.net>
>> <u%6Of.25$Ys1.1150@news.uswest.net>
>> <1141577288_2369@sp6iad.superfeed.net>
>> Subject: Re: Dana Corp files for bankruptcy
>> Lines: 20
>> X-Priority: 3
>> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
>> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
>> X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
>> Message-ID: <7%FOf.17$AE2.1538@news.uswest.net>
>> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:22:11 -0700
>> NNTP-Posting-Host: 70.57.239.248
>> X-Trace: news.uswest.net 1141582915 70.57.239.248 (Sun, 05 Mar 2006
>> 12:21:55 CST)
>> NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 12:21:55 CST
>> Xref: panix rec.autos.makers.jeep+******:591768
>>
>> "Terry Jeffrey" <twjeffrey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1141577288_2369@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
>>
>>>Yup, and GM & Ford because everybody in the country these days are
>>>driving their pretty new Toyotas and Hondas. How easily people forget.
>>>My old granddad would roll over in his grave if I ever bought a Jap.
>>>auto.
>>
>>
>> hi terry,
>> im gonna be in helena all day monday. any suggestions on locating rural
>>>>>http://InlineDiesel.com
>>>>>http://BighornRefrigeration.com
>>>>>http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>http://www.usenet.com
>>>
>>>
>>
worth that much or more on a per hour basis.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/13864806.htm
"Total labor cost per hour for GM and Ford is now $65.90 an hour, including
$35.36 in wages and $30.54 in benefits, health-care and retirement costs."
UAW members are being asked to pay a pittance of the medical costs with
their annual contribution about the same as a monthly charge for
individually purchased coverage.
I am not sure where you got the $15K figure but if you compare that the auto
companies want workers to pay about $700 per year on their insurance you see
that their contribution is about 5% of its cost.
I have no anger toward retirees. I was stating the reality that companies
are intent to break the unions and dump the retirement programs on the
taxpayer. This is occurring in bankrupsy courts today within the auto and
airline companies.
I agree with most of your comment about workers and employers both getting
the treatment they deserve.
We had a GM assembly plant in a town nearby and I am well aware of the
shenanigans on both sides. This tit-for-tat is probably one of the reasons
the plant closed in addition to the plant mis-management.
"Lee Ayrton" <layrton@panix.com> wrote in message
news:dufk7f$a4n$1@reader2.panix.com...
>I won't bore you with pointing out where I agree and disagree with your
>opinions below, but I'd like make a few points.
>
> * The base wage at Delphi is $27.00 an hour, which doesn't meet my sniff
> test for obscene. Yes, some of its workers had been making 6-figures for
> years, but they were relying on overtime.
> * The average annual cost of insuring a US family this year will be about
> $15,000, and it won't ever be going back down.
>
> An observation: I'm shocked at the anger exhibited towards pensioners.
>
> And an opinion: Employers generally get the unions that they deserve. Beat
> your employees regularly, cheat them out of every dime you can and make
> them watch while you blow your nose into a wad of cash, screw them over
> just for fun and you'll find yourself facing a cigar-chomping,
> tire-slashing, sloganeering contract negotiator who will be happy to shut
> you down until the cows come home and your customers have all gone
> elsewhere.
>
>
> billy ray wrote:
>> The companies are in "dire straits" because of mismanagement and the
>> greed of the auto worker unions.
>>
>> The auto executives have only looked at short term goals for, at least,
>> three decades now and have given little thought to the long term health
>> of their companies.
>>
>> Their shortsightedness led to 10-15 years worth of cars that were only
>> occasionally capable of being made to run properly
>>
>> I could also include their arrogance with their belief that consumers
>> will be happy with whatever they built but that is an other story.
>>
>> Had the auto companies been financed and advised by 'professional'
>> financiers and not by bean counters, lawyers, and bankers concerned about
>> making that extra penny today then perhaps things might be different.
>>
>> Had the auto workers not been in controlled by organized crime and in bed
>> with the communists things might have been different.
>>
>> This came as no surprise to anyone as both sides understood each other
>> perfectly well. Both sides had officials whose sole duty was to devise
>> ways of screwing the other side but no one to promote cooperation.
>>
>> The union workers have been making obscene wage and benefit packages for
>> decades and for a long time the auto consumer was willing and able to
>> support this excess. The unions are still concerned only with what they
>> can get in 'this' contract.... screw the companies long term health.
>>
>> The executives are making obscene salaries and vote themselves huge
>> bonuses every year....... It makes perfect sense to me after all....this
>> year they lost 100 million dollars less than they did last year....
>>
>> But management may not have been as incompetent as we believed. perhaps
>> they sought to intentionally run the company into bankrupsy. The court
>> will allow them to then break their contracts with the unions and the
>> federal government will take over the pensions and offer reduced benefits
>> paid not by the company but by the taxpayer. Of course..... the
>> executive board will then vote them even more extravagant bonuses and
>> perks for returning their company to financial health......
>>
>> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
>> news:FOudnURAuZycgZbZRVn-og@comcast.com...
>>
>>>Half my Ford is made of components made in Mexico.
>>>
>>>GM and Ford are in financial dire straits because their labor costs are
>>>out of control, health insurance, pensions, etc.
>>>
>>>"Terry Jeffrey" <twjeffrey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1141577288_2369@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
>>>
>>>>Yup, and GM & Ford because everybody in the country these days are
>>>>driving their pretty new Toyotas and Hondas. How easily people forget.
>>>>My old granddad would roll over in his grave if I ever bought a Jap.
>>>>auto.
>>>>
>>>>Terry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Nathan W. Collier" <Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:u%6Of.25$Ys1.1150@news.uswest.net...
>>>>
>>>>>"mabar" <xyzz4569@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>>>>>news:4408ef0a_1@newsfeed.slurp.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>>I wonder how this will affect Jeep?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...fer=news_index
>>>>>
>>>>>winchester, dana, so many others......this is what happens when you
>>>>>sell your soul to china, one walmart basket full of chinese crap at a
>>>>>time.
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>Nathan W. Collier
>>>>>http://UtilityOffRoad.com
>>>>>http://7SlotGrille.com
>>
>> Path:
>> reader2.panix.com!reader1.panix.com!panix!newsfeed .media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.news.ucla.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!a rclight.uoregon.edu!feednews.vanderbilt.edu!feed.n ews.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail
>> From: "Nathan W. Collier" <Nathan@NoSpam.com>
>> Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.jeep+******
>> References: <4408ef0a_1@newsfeed.slurp.net>
>> <u%6Of.25$Ys1.1150@news.uswest.net>
>> <1141577288_2369@sp6iad.superfeed.net>
>> Subject: Re: Dana Corp files for bankruptcy
>> Lines: 20
>> X-Priority: 3
>> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
>> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
>> X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
>> Message-ID: <7%FOf.17$AE2.1538@news.uswest.net>
>> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:22:11 -0700
>> NNTP-Posting-Host: 70.57.239.248
>> X-Trace: news.uswest.net 1141582915 70.57.239.248 (Sun, 05 Mar 2006
>> 12:21:55 CST)
>> NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 12:21:55 CST
>> Xref: panix rec.autos.makers.jeep+******:591768
>>
>> "Terry Jeffrey" <twjeffrey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1141577288_2369@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
>>
>>>Yup, and GM & Ford because everybody in the country these days are
>>>driving their pretty new Toyotas and Hondas. How easily people forget.
>>>My old granddad would roll over in his grave if I ever bought a Jap.
>>>auto.
>>
>>
>> hi terry,
>> im gonna be in helena all day monday. any suggestions on locating rural
>>>>>http://InlineDiesel.com
>>>>>http://BighornRefrigeration.com
>>>>>http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>http://www.usenet.com
>>>
>>>
>>
