Re: Clutch question
 

Doug wrote:
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3FB15B3D.E7019827@sympatico.ca...
> > Just a thought for you, but you do know you can just be stopped with the
> > engine off and put it in 3rd then hit the starter and go eh.... You can
> > then limp home in 3rd.
> >
> > If you need to stop, you can let off the gas so it isn't pulling or
> > engine braking and bang the shifter to neutral. If you are good, you
> > can even shift up to 4th this way with a rev in the neutral point. That
> > is called 'double clutching' if the clutch is in there, but a clutch
> > isn't needed, a power shift can be done with a little practice.
> >
> > If yours has the clutch interlock, it might be at the pedal so you hold
> > the broken pedal down anyway so the starter turns. Or I believe you
> > have an empty fuse hole labeled auto trans and you just stick a fuse in
> > there to bypass the clutch interlock.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
>
> Mike,
>
> Thanks, I didn't know that. Knowing that would have saved the tow bill. Now
> I just need to borrow someone's jeep to practice...
>
> Here's what I think happened: one of the two clips that hold the release
> bearing to the release lever broke. The lever was then able to move past the
> bearing, allowing the slave to extend past the point of its normal travel.
> When I went to shift to second, the slave came apart. I've ordered new
> master/slave cylinder assembly from the dealer. The dealer price was
> actually $40 cheaper than the local napa!
>

Ya, I can see that happening. Weird though, I have never heard of or
seen that clip break.

The starter turning in gear is a 'good' feature to have on a Jeep.
Check yours and maybe you just need that fuse to make it work.

It is worth while learning it before you need to use it. You can just
pull the coil wire or better the coil power plug to test the 'walking
it' in gear to get somewhere safe or out of traffic.

'Note:' That 'IS' hard on the starter and the battery, but some wear vs
a tow or getting dinged/hit for being in the wrong place and...... It's
not that hard on them and if it does damage them, they were about to
fail soon anyway because a decent working set will handle that easy. A
new set of brushes is less than $10.00 for the starter anyway and are
real easy to put in...

It 'is' a safety feature in the newer ones so, ummm, no to bright folks
don't accidentally start up and drive through their houses or something.

In a clutch pinch it will fire up in gear. Second is the easiest one to
use, first turns the engine too slow under load like that. Third will
work too, but I can use second and shift up and down as needed with no
clutch. Hey as few a shifts as possible, that's why 3rd is nice. It
has low rpm power enough not to stall down to 5 or 10 mph or so and in
'my' Jeep will wind up to 70 mph easy. 40 or 50 mph is ok still to
cruise at in 3rd.

But off road if you get the distributor cap wet half way across a creek
or something, it sure is sweet to be able to put it in 2nd or 3rd (if in
low) and walk it up out of the water so you don't have to get wet drying
it out.

Same for on the street. On one trip, I just drove 1000 miles straight
with my wife spelling me at the wheel for a few hour nap and my CJ died
2 miles from my first destination in morning rush hour on a 4 lane, 1+
mile long, I think, suspension bridge, (with the two center lanes closed
for repair) that is the shape and almost the size of the Golden Gate
Bridge and it up and backfired a couple times and died!

Oh crap! So I stop, was only moving 5 mph anyway, rush hour, dropped it
in 2nd and cranked it off into the construction area with the starter,
then got out to see what the heck was going on.

It was backfiring so I looked at spark. The last gas station guy that
checked the oil had hooked the power wire for the coil loose and it
almost fell off. Quick fix anyway, but embarrassing as hell. 'Out of
province Jeep blocks main bridge at rush hour', had visions of that in
the local news.... LOL!

I think it is a flat rate $200.00 or $250.00 to get towed off that
bridge.....

Mike

Re: Clutch question
 

Doug wrote:
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3FB15B3D.E7019827@sympatico.ca...
> > Just a thought for you, but you do know you can just be stopped with the
> > engine off and put it in 3rd then hit the starter and go eh.... You can
> > then limp home in 3rd.
> >
> > If you need to stop, you can let off the gas so it isn't pulling or
> > engine braking and bang the shifter to neutral. If you are good, you
> > can even shift up to 4th this way with a rev in the neutral point. That
> > is called 'double clutching' if the clutch is in there, but a clutch
> > isn't needed, a power shift can be done with a little practice.
> >
> > If yours has the clutch interlock, it might be at the pedal so you hold
> > the broken pedal down anyway so the starter turns. Or I believe you
> > have an empty fuse hole labeled auto trans and you just stick a fuse in
> > there to bypass the clutch interlock.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
>
> Mike,
>
> Thanks, I didn't know that. Knowing that would have saved the tow bill. Now
> I just need to borrow someone's jeep to practice...
>
> Here's what I think happened: one of the two clips that hold the release
> bearing to the release lever broke. The lever was then able to move past the
> bearing, allowing the slave to extend past the point of its normal travel.
> When I went to shift to second, the slave came apart. I've ordered new
> master/slave cylinder assembly from the dealer. The dealer price was
> actually $40 cheaper than the local napa!
>

Ya, I can see that happening. Weird though, I have never heard of or
seen that clip break.

The starter turning in gear is a 'good' feature to have on a Jeep.
Check yours and maybe you just need that fuse to make it work.

It is worth while learning it before you need to use it. You can just
pull the coil wire or better the coil power plug to test the 'walking
it' in gear to get somewhere safe or out of traffic.

'Note:' That 'IS' hard on the starter and the battery, but some wear vs
a tow or getting dinged/hit for being in the wrong place and...... It's
not that hard on them and if it does damage them, they were about to
fail soon anyway because a decent working set will handle that easy. A
new set of brushes is less than $10.00 for the starter anyway and are
real easy to put in...

It 'is' a safety feature in the newer ones so, ummm, no to bright folks
don't accidentally start up and drive through their houses or something.

In a clutch pinch it will fire up in gear. Second is the easiest one to
use, first turns the engine too slow under load like that. Third will
work too, but I can use second and shift up and down as needed with no
clutch. Hey as few a shifts as possible, that's why 3rd is nice. It
has low rpm power enough not to stall down to 5 or 10 mph or so and in
'my' Jeep will wind up to 70 mph easy. 40 or 50 mph is ok still to
cruise at in 3rd.

But off road if you get the distributor cap wet half way across a creek
or something, it sure is sweet to be able to put it in 2nd or 3rd (if in
low) and walk it up out of the water so you don't have to get wet drying
it out.

Same for on the street. On one trip, I just drove 1000 miles straight
with my wife spelling me at the wheel for a few hour nap and my CJ died
2 miles from my first destination in morning rush hour on a 4 lane, 1+
mile long, I think, suspension bridge, (with the two center lanes closed
for repair) that is the shape and almost the size of the Golden Gate
Bridge and it up and backfired a couple times and died!

Oh crap! So I stop, was only moving 5 mph anyway, rush hour, dropped it
in 2nd and cranked it off into the construction area with the starter,
then got out to see what the heck was going on.

It was backfiring so I looked at spark. The last gas station guy that
checked the oil had hooked the power wire for the coil loose and it
almost fell off. Quick fix anyway, but embarrassing as hell. 'Out of
province Jeep blocks main bridge at rush hour', had visions of that in
the local news.... LOL!

I think it is a flat rate $200.00 or $250.00 to get towed off that
bridge.....

Mike

Re: Clutch question
 

Peter Parker wrote:
>
> In article <3FB15B3D.E7019827@sympatico.ca>,
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >Just a thought for you, but you do know you can just be stopped with the
> >engine off and put it in 3rd then hit the starter and go eh.... You can
> >then limp home in 3rd.
> >
> >If you need to stop, you can let off the gas so it isn't pulling or
> >engine braking and bang the shifter to neutral. If you are good, you
> >can even shift up to 4th this way with a rev in the neutral point. That
> >is called 'double clutching' if the clutch is in there, but a clutch
> >isn't needed, a power shift can be done with a little practice.
>
> I think you might be confused about "double clutching". Shifting without
> pushing the clutch is not to be confused with double clutching. Double clutching
> is when you push in the clutch, shift into neutral, let go of the clutch,
> push in the clutch again to disengage syncros, shift into the next gear.
> That's how you had to do driving the old VW bugs w/o syncros in the tranny.
> I still double clutch to save wear on my syncros whenever possible.
>
> Since the OP lost his clutch usage, he would have to shift as you described
> and that is without any load at a certain RPM. Truckers do this all the
> time since they only use the clutch to start out from a dead stop.
>
> Right Bill? :) huh? huh? huh? :)
>
> Real Truckers don't use clutches....
>
> --Hmmm...

Ok, I always either called it double clutching without the clutch or
power shifting it I think.

I thought that kinda defined the differences, maybe not?

What do professional drivers call it?

In both cases, I blip the throttle when the tranny is in neutral and as
the revs come back down, you hit a matching rpm and it just lets the
shifter slide in nice. If you have a tach and know your rpm at certain
speeds, or have a good ear for it, you can shift sweet every time.

As I mentioned in another post in this thread I learned big trucks on an
old Western Star scrap yard hauler I was running a crane on that only
used the clutch to start and that took me damn near a half day to get
the old pr@#$ into second before someone showed up to show me, then I
got smart like he said and started in second, the rest only took one
shoulder into the gear shifter, not the whole body up out of the seat
and a boxing glove on the hand to get out of 1st... He used a hammer
head held in his palm....

Those low rpm engines shift sweet, Jeep engines also can just slide in
if you short shift at lower rpm into higher gears. They have the low
rpm torque to pull out and then you only have one or two shifts to do.

Mike

Re: Clutch question
 

Peter Parker wrote:
>
> In article <3FB15B3D.E7019827@sympatico.ca>,
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >Just a thought for you, but you do know you can just be stopped with the
> >engine off and put it in 3rd then hit the starter and go eh.... You can
> >then limp home in 3rd.
> >
> >If you need to stop, you can let off the gas so it isn't pulling or
> >engine braking and bang the shifter to neutral. If you are good, you
> >can even shift up to 4th this way with a rev in the neutral point. That
> >is called 'double clutching' if the clutch is in there, but a clutch
> >isn't needed, a power shift can be done with a little practice.
>
> I think you might be confused about "double clutching". Shifting without
> pushing the clutch is not to be confused with double clutching. Double clutching
> is when you push in the clutch, shift into neutral, let go of the clutch,
> push in the clutch again to disengage syncros, shift into the next gear.
> That's how you had to do driving the old VW bugs w/o syncros in the tranny.
> I still double clutch to save wear on my syncros whenever possible.
>
> Since the OP lost his clutch usage, he would have to shift as you described
> and that is without any load at a certain RPM. Truckers do this all the
> time since they only use the clutch to start out from a dead stop.
>
> Right Bill? :) huh? huh? huh? :)
>
> Real Truckers don't use clutches....
>
> --Hmmm...

Ok, I always either called it double clutching without the clutch or
power shifting it I think.

I thought that kinda defined the differences, maybe not?

What do professional drivers call it?

In both cases, I blip the throttle when the tranny is in neutral and as
the revs come back down, you hit a matching rpm and it just lets the
shifter slide in nice. If you have a tach and know your rpm at certain
speeds, or have a good ear for it, you can shift sweet every time.

As I mentioned in another post in this thread I learned big trucks on an
old Western Star scrap yard hauler I was running a crane on that only
used the clutch to start and that took me damn near a half day to get
the old pr@#$ into second before someone showed up to show me, then I
got smart like he said and started in second, the rest only took one
shoulder into the gear shifter, not the whole body up out of the seat
and a boxing glove on the hand to get out of 1st... He used a hammer
head held in his palm....

Those low rpm engines shift sweet, Jeep engines also can just slide in
if you short shift at lower rpm into higher gears. They have the low
rpm torque to pull out and then you only have one or two shifts to do.

Mike

Re: Clutch question
 

Peter Parker wrote:
>
> In article <3FB15B3D.E7019827@sympatico.ca>,
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >Just a thought for you, but you do know you can just be stopped with the
> >engine off and put it in 3rd then hit the starter and go eh.... You can
> >then limp home in 3rd.
> >
> >If you need to stop, you can let off the gas so it isn't pulling or
> >engine braking and bang the shifter to neutral. If you are good, you
> >can even shift up to 4th this way with a rev in the neutral point. That
> >is called 'double clutching' if the clutch is in there, but a clutch
> >isn't needed, a power shift can be done with a little practice.
>
> I think you might be confused about "double clutching". Shifting without
> pushing the clutch is not to be confused with double clutching. Double clutching
> is when you push in the clutch, shift into neutral, let go of the clutch,
> push in the clutch again to disengage syncros, shift into the next gear.
> That's how you had to do driving the old VW bugs w/o syncros in the tranny.
> I still double clutch to save wear on my syncros whenever possible.
>
> Since the OP lost his clutch usage, he would have to shift as you described
> and that is without any load at a certain RPM. Truckers do this all the
> time since they only use the clutch to start out from a dead stop.
>
> Right Bill? :) huh? huh? huh? :)
>
> Real Truckers don't use clutches....
>
> --Hmmm...

Ok, I always either called it double clutching without the clutch or
power shifting it I think.

I thought that kinda defined the differences, maybe not?

What do professional drivers call it?

In both cases, I blip the throttle when the tranny is in neutral and as
the revs come back down, you hit a matching rpm and it just lets the
shifter slide in nice. If you have a tach and know your rpm at certain
speeds, or have a good ear for it, you can shift sweet every time.

As I mentioned in another post in this thread I learned big trucks on an
old Western Star scrap yard hauler I was running a crane on that only
used the clutch to start and that took me damn near a half day to get
the old pr@#$ into second before someone showed up to show me, then I
got smart like he said and started in second, the rest only took one
shoulder into the gear shifter, not the whole body up out of the seat
and a boxing glove on the hand to get out of 1st... He used a hammer
head held in his palm....

Those low rpm engines shift sweet, Jeep engines also can just slide in
if you short shift at lower rpm into higher gears. They have the low
rpm torque to pull out and then you only have one or two shifts to do.

Mike

Re: Clutch question
 

In article <3FB1A701.413E517B@sympatico.ca>,
Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
<snip>
>>
>> Right Bill? :) huh? huh? huh? :)
>>
>> Real Truckers don't use clutches....
>>
>> --Hmmm...
>
>Ok, I always either called it double clutching without the clutch or
>power shifting it I think.

I think power shifting might be it. Not sure.

>I thought that kinda defined the differences, maybe not?

The diff is the lack of clutch usage. Controlling the RPM and
double clutching in down shifting is almost the same technique as
you mentioned. You have to rev up the Rrrs just a little above
where they were in a downshift.

>What do professional drivers call it?

Don't know.

It's all technique and if you get it down like you mentioned
below, it works great. It's sort of like shifting without a
clutch on a dirt bike but a dirt bike is more simple and more
forgiving IMO.

>In both cases, I blip the throttle when the tranny is in neutral and as
>the revs come back down, you hit a matching rpm and it just lets the
>shifter slide in nice. If you have a tach and know your rpm at certain
>speeds, or have a good ear for it, you can shift sweet every time.
>
>As I mentioned in another post in this thread I learned big trucks on an
>old Western Star scrap yard hauler I was running a crane on that only
>used the clutch to start and that took me damn near a half day to get
>the old pr@#$ into second before someone showed up to show me, then I
>got smart like he said and started in second, the rest only took one
>shoulder into the gear shifter, not the whole body up out of the seat
>and a boxing glove on the hand to get out of 1st... He used a hammer
>head held in his palm....
>
>Those low rpm engines shift sweet, Jeep engines also can just slide in
>if you short shift at lower rpm into higher gears. They have the low
>rpm torque to pull out and then you only have one or two shifts to do.
>
>Mike


--
<html><form><input type crash></form></html>
nospam@zero.com Replace nospam with jetta to reply via e-mail

Re: Clutch question
 

In article <3FB1A701.413E517B@sympatico.ca>,
Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
<snip>
>>
>> Right Bill? :) huh? huh? huh? :)
>>
>> Real Truckers don't use clutches....
>>
>> --Hmmm...
>
>Ok, I always either called it double clutching without the clutch or
>power shifting it I think.

I think power shifting might be it. Not sure.

>I thought that kinda defined the differences, maybe not?

The diff is the lack of clutch usage. Controlling the RPM and
double clutching in down shifting is almost the same technique as
you mentioned. You have to rev up the Rrrs just a little above
where they were in a downshift.

>What do professional drivers call it?

Don't know.

It's all technique and if you get it down like you mentioned
below, it works great. It's sort of like shifting without a
clutch on a dirt bike but a dirt bike is more simple and more
forgiving IMO.

>In both cases, I blip the throttle when the tranny is in neutral and as
>the revs come back down, you hit a matching rpm and it just lets the
>shifter slide in nice. If you have a tach and know your rpm at certain
>speeds, or have a good ear for it, you can shift sweet every time.
>
>As I mentioned in another post in this thread I learned big trucks on an
>old Western Star scrap yard hauler I was running a crane on that only
>used the clutch to start and that took me damn near a half day to get
>the old pr@#$ into second before someone showed up to show me, then I
>got smart like he said and started in second, the rest only took one
>shoulder into the gear shifter, not the whole body up out of the seat
>and a boxing glove on the hand to get out of 1st... He used a hammer
>head held in his palm....
>
>Those low rpm engines shift sweet, Jeep engines also can just slide in
>if you short shift at lower rpm into higher gears. They have the low
>rpm torque to pull out and then you only have one or two shifts to do.
>
>Mike


--
<html><form><input type crash></form></html>
nospam@zero.com Replace nospam with jetta to reply via e-mail

Re: Clutch question
 

In article <3FB1A701.413E517B@sympatico.ca>,
Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
<snip>
>>
>> Right Bill? :) huh? huh? huh? :)
>>
>> Real Truckers don't use clutches....
>>
>> --Hmmm...
>
>Ok, I always either called it double clutching without the clutch or
>power shifting it I think.

I think power shifting might be it. Not sure.

>I thought that kinda defined the differences, maybe not?

The diff is the lack of clutch usage. Controlling the RPM and
double clutching in down shifting is almost the same technique as
you mentioned. You have to rev up the Rrrs just a little above
where they were in a downshift.

>What do professional drivers call it?

Don't know.

It's all technique and if you get it down like you mentioned
below, it works great. It's sort of like shifting without a
clutch on a dirt bike but a dirt bike is more simple and more
forgiving IMO.

>In both cases, I blip the throttle when the tranny is in neutral and as
>the revs come back down, you hit a matching rpm and it just lets the
>shifter slide in nice. If you have a tach and know your rpm at certain
>speeds, or have a good ear for it, you can shift sweet every time.
>
>As I mentioned in another post in this thread I learned big trucks on an
>old Western Star scrap yard hauler I was running a crane on that only
>used the clutch to start and that took me damn near a half day to get
>the old pr@#$ into second before someone showed up to show me, then I
>got smart like he said and started in second, the rest only took one
>shoulder into the gear shifter, not the whole body up out of the seat
>and a boxing glove on the hand to get out of 1st... He used a hammer
>head held in his palm....
>
>Those low rpm engines shift sweet, Jeep engines also can just slide in
>if you short shift at lower rpm into higher gears. They have the low
>rpm torque to pull out and then you only have one or two shifts to do.
>
>Mike


--
<html><form><input type crash></form></html>
nospam@zero.com Replace nospam with jetta to reply via e-mail

Re: Clutch question
 

Peter Parker wrote:
>
> In article <3FB1A701.413E517B@sympatico.ca>,
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> <snip>
> >>
> >> Right Bill? :) huh? huh? huh? :)
> >>
> >> Real Truckers don't use clutches....
> >>
> >> --Hmmm...
> >
> >Ok, I always either called it double clutching without the clutch or
> >power shifting it I think.
>
> I think power shifting might be it. Not sure.
>
> >I thought that kinda defined the differences, maybe not?
>
> The diff is the lack of clutch usage.

Exactly, I thought the way I said it mentioned the difference in the
post. Here is a quote:

"That is called 'double clutching' if the clutch is in there, but a
clutch
isn't needed, a power shift can be done with a little practice."

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Re: Clutch question
 

Peter Parker wrote:
>
> In article <3FB1A701.413E517B@sympatico.ca>,
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> <snip>
> >>
> >> Right Bill? :) huh? huh? huh? :)
> >>
> >> Real Truckers don't use clutches....
> >>
> >> --Hmmm...
> >
> >Ok, I always either called it double clutching without the clutch or
> >power shifting it I think.
>
> I think power shifting might be it. Not sure.
>
> >I thought that kinda defined the differences, maybe not?
>
> The diff is the lack of clutch usage.

Exactly, I thought the way I said it mentioned the difference in the
post. Here is a quote:

"That is called 'double clutching' if the clutch is in there, but a
clutch
isn't needed, a power shift can be done with a little practice."

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's