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Clanking Sound Came Back
Hi all:
Last year I posted about the mysterious "Clanking" sound coming from the engine after driving in hot weather. Took it to the trans people that rebuilt it, after a few "we don't hear no sounds?" I proved to them that it was happening (drove around for half an hour in hot weather). They said they fixed it but I noticed today that it came back. It was that the distance between the flywheel or whatever is too close to the engine, I think. Here was a post from Edward that was in the right area: had EXACT same noise during hot conditions/intermittent etc. on my old '95 Grand Cherokee. There should be an inspection plate/cover where your trans. and torque convertor meet the engine. Pull cover and eyeball the bolt-heads, they are "ticking" against the flat plate cover after enough heat expansion takes up the minimal clearance. I don't want to take it to Cottman, if I took it to Meineke , how much guys they they will shaft me? sometimes I feel like going out and getting a little Honda Civic but something about the Jeep that kept pulling me back, like a gf you can't leave. Thanks all! John NJ |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
Hi John,
Usually is a motor mount failure, letting the engine fall down on the front driveshaft and skid plate: http://members.cox.net/douglas.wilson/motormount/ or maybe the sway bar grommets: http://members.cox.net/wilsond/front...way/index.html God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ "John" <lilgrasshopper@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1188179017.739662.283510@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com... > Hi all: > > Last year I posted about the mysterious "Clanking" sound coming from > the engine after driving in hot weather. Took it to the trans people > that rebuilt it, after a few "we don't hear no sounds?" I proved to > them that it was happening (drove around for half an hour in hot > weather). They said they fixed it but I noticed today that it came > back. It was that the distance between the flywheel or whatever is too > close to the engine, I think. > > Here was a post from Edward that was in the right area: > > had EXACT same noise during hot conditions/intermittent etc. on my old > '95 Grand Cherokee. There should be an inspection plate/cover where > your > trans. and torque convertor meet the engine. Pull cover and eyeball > the > bolt-heads, they are "ticking" against the flat plate cover after > enough > heat expansion takes up the minimal clearance. > > I don't want to take it to Cottman, if I took it to Meineke , how much > guys they they will shaft me? sometimes I feel like going out and > getting a little Honda Civic but something about the Jeep that kept > pulling me back, like a gf you can't leave. > > Thanks all! > > John > NJ > -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
Hi John,
Usually is a motor mount failure, letting the engine fall down on the front driveshaft and skid plate: http://members.cox.net/douglas.wilson/motormount/ or maybe the sway bar grommets: http://members.cox.net/wilsond/front...way/index.html God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ "John" <lilgrasshopper@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1188179017.739662.283510@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com... > Hi all: > > Last year I posted about the mysterious "Clanking" sound coming from > the engine after driving in hot weather. Took it to the trans people > that rebuilt it, after a few "we don't hear no sounds?" I proved to > them that it was happening (drove around for half an hour in hot > weather). They said they fixed it but I noticed today that it came > back. It was that the distance between the flywheel or whatever is too > close to the engine, I think. > > Here was a post from Edward that was in the right area: > > had EXACT same noise during hot conditions/intermittent etc. on my old > '95 Grand Cherokee. There should be an inspection plate/cover where > your > trans. and torque convertor meet the engine. Pull cover and eyeball > the > bolt-heads, they are "ticking" against the flat plate cover after > enough > heat expansion takes up the minimal clearance. > > I don't want to take it to Cottman, if I took it to Meineke , how much > guys they they will shaft me? sometimes I feel like going out and > getting a little Honda Civic but something about the Jeep that kept > pulling me back, like a gf you can't leave. > > Thanks all! > > John > NJ > -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
Hi John,
Usually is a motor mount failure, letting the engine fall down on the front driveshaft and skid plate: http://members.cox.net/douglas.wilson/motormount/ or maybe the sway bar grommets: http://members.cox.net/wilsond/front...way/index.html God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ "John" <lilgrasshopper@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1188179017.739662.283510@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com... > Hi all: > > Last year I posted about the mysterious "Clanking" sound coming from > the engine after driving in hot weather. Took it to the trans people > that rebuilt it, after a few "we don't hear no sounds?" I proved to > them that it was happening (drove around for half an hour in hot > weather). They said they fixed it but I noticed today that it came > back. It was that the distance between the flywheel or whatever is too > close to the engine, I think. > > Here was a post from Edward that was in the right area: > > had EXACT same noise during hot conditions/intermittent etc. on my old > '95 Grand Cherokee. There should be an inspection plate/cover where > your > trans. and torque convertor meet the engine. Pull cover and eyeball > the > bolt-heads, they are "ticking" against the flat plate cover after > enough > heat expansion takes up the minimal clearance. > > I don't want to take it to Cottman, if I took it to Meineke , how much > guys they they will shaft me? sometimes I feel like going out and > getting a little Honda Civic but something about the Jeep that kept > pulling me back, like a gf you can't leave. > > Thanks all! > > John > NJ > -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
Hi John,
Usually is a motor mount failure, letting the engine fall down on the front driveshaft and skid plate: http://members.cox.net/douglas.wilson/motormount/ or maybe the sway bar grommets: http://members.cox.net/wilsond/front...way/index.html God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ "John" <lilgrasshopper@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1188179017.739662.283510@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com... > Hi all: > > Last year I posted about the mysterious "Clanking" sound coming from > the engine after driving in hot weather. Took it to the trans people > that rebuilt it, after a few "we don't hear no sounds?" I proved to > them that it was happening (drove around for half an hour in hot > weather). They said they fixed it but I noticed today that it came > back. It was that the distance between the flywheel or whatever is too > close to the engine, I think. > > Here was a post from Edward that was in the right area: > > had EXACT same noise during hot conditions/intermittent etc. on my old > '95 Grand Cherokee. There should be an inspection plate/cover where > your > trans. and torque convertor meet the engine. Pull cover and eyeball > the > bolt-heads, they are "ticking" against the flat plate cover after > enough > heat expansion takes up the minimal clearance. > > I don't want to take it to Cottman, if I took it to Meineke , how much > guys they they will shaft me? sometimes I feel like going out and > getting a little Honda Civic but something about the Jeep that kept > pulling me back, like a gf you can't leave. > > Thanks all! > > John > NJ > -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Aug 26, 11:57 pm, "L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III"
<LWBillHug...@------.net> wrote: > Hi John, > Usually is a motor mount failure, letting the engine fall down on the > front driveshaft and skid plate:http://members.cox.net/douglas.wilson/motormount/or maybe the sway bar > grommets:http://members.cox.net/wilsond/front...way/index.html > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:LW------...@aol.comhttp://www.----------.com/ > > "John" <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:1188179017.739662.283510@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com... > > > > > Hi all: > > > Last year I posted about the mysterious "Clanking" sound coming from > > the engine after driving in hot weather. Took it to the trans people > > that rebuilt it, after a few "we don't hear no sounds?" I proved to > > them that it was happening (drove around for half an hour in hot > > weather). They said they fixed it but I noticed today that it came > > back. It was that the distance between the flywheel or whatever is too > > close to the engine, I think. > > > Here was a post from Edward that was in the right area: > > > had EXACT same noise during hot conditions/intermittent etc. on my old > > '95 Grand Cherokee. There should be an inspection plate/cover where > > your > > trans. and torque convertor meet the engine. Pull cover and eyeball > > the > > bolt-heads, they are "ticking" against the flat plate cover after > > enough > > heat expansion takes up the minimal clearance. > > > I don't want to take it to Cottman, if I took it to Meineke , how much > > guys they they will shaft me? sometimes I feel like going out and > > getting a little Honda Civic but something about the Jeep that kept > > pulling me back, like a gf you can't leave. > > > Thanks all! > > > John > > NJ > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com Hi Bill Then how come this only happens when it's really hot out? Thanks, -John |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Aug 26, 11:57 pm, "L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III"
<LWBillHug...@------.net> wrote: > Hi John, > Usually is a motor mount failure, letting the engine fall down on the > front driveshaft and skid plate:http://members.cox.net/douglas.wilson/motormount/or maybe the sway bar > grommets:http://members.cox.net/wilsond/front...way/index.html > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:LW------...@aol.comhttp://www.----------.com/ > > "John" <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:1188179017.739662.283510@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com... > > > > > Hi all: > > > Last year I posted about the mysterious "Clanking" sound coming from > > the engine after driving in hot weather. Took it to the trans people > > that rebuilt it, after a few "we don't hear no sounds?" I proved to > > them that it was happening (drove around for half an hour in hot > > weather). They said they fixed it but I noticed today that it came > > back. It was that the distance between the flywheel or whatever is too > > close to the engine, I think. > > > Here was a post from Edward that was in the right area: > > > had EXACT same noise during hot conditions/intermittent etc. on my old > > '95 Grand Cherokee. There should be an inspection plate/cover where > > your > > trans. and torque convertor meet the engine. Pull cover and eyeball > > the > > bolt-heads, they are "ticking" against the flat plate cover after > > enough > > heat expansion takes up the minimal clearance. > > > I don't want to take it to Cottman, if I took it to Meineke , how much > > guys they they will shaft me? sometimes I feel like going out and > > getting a little Honda Civic but something about the Jeep that kept > > pulling me back, like a gf you can't leave. > > > Thanks all! > > > John > > NJ > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com Hi Bill Then how come this only happens when it's really hot out? Thanks, -John |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Aug 26, 11:57 pm, "L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III"
<LWBillHug...@------.net> wrote: > Hi John, > Usually is a motor mount failure, letting the engine fall down on the > front driveshaft and skid plate:http://members.cox.net/douglas.wilson/motormount/or maybe the sway bar > grommets:http://members.cox.net/wilsond/front...way/index.html > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:LW------...@aol.comhttp://www.----------.com/ > > "John" <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:1188179017.739662.283510@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com... > > > > > Hi all: > > > Last year I posted about the mysterious "Clanking" sound coming from > > the engine after driving in hot weather. Took it to the trans people > > that rebuilt it, after a few "we don't hear no sounds?" I proved to > > them that it was happening (drove around for half an hour in hot > > weather). They said they fixed it but I noticed today that it came > > back. It was that the distance between the flywheel or whatever is too > > close to the engine, I think. > > > Here was a post from Edward that was in the right area: > > > had EXACT same noise during hot conditions/intermittent etc. on my old > > '95 Grand Cherokee. There should be an inspection plate/cover where > > your > > trans. and torque convertor meet the engine. Pull cover and eyeball > > the > > bolt-heads, they are "ticking" against the flat plate cover after > > enough > > heat expansion takes up the minimal clearance. > > > I don't want to take it to Cottman, if I took it to Meineke , how much > > guys they they will shaft me? sometimes I feel like going out and > > getting a little Honda Civic but something about the Jeep that kept > > pulling me back, like a gf you can't leave. > > > Thanks all! > > > John > > NJ > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com Hi Bill Then how come this only happens when it's really hot out? Thanks, -John |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Aug 26, 11:57 pm, "L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III"
<LWBillHug...@------.net> wrote: > Hi John, > Usually is a motor mount failure, letting the engine fall down on the > front driveshaft and skid plate:http://members.cox.net/douglas.wilson/motormount/or maybe the sway bar > grommets:http://members.cox.net/wilsond/front...way/index.html > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:LW------...@aol.comhttp://www.----------.com/ > > "John" <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:1188179017.739662.283510@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com... > > > > > Hi all: > > > Last year I posted about the mysterious "Clanking" sound coming from > > the engine after driving in hot weather. Took it to the trans people > > that rebuilt it, after a few "we don't hear no sounds?" I proved to > > them that it was happening (drove around for half an hour in hot > > weather). They said they fixed it but I noticed today that it came > > back. It was that the distance between the flywheel or whatever is too > > close to the engine, I think. > > > Here was a post from Edward that was in the right area: > > > had EXACT same noise during hot conditions/intermittent etc. on my old > > '95 Grand Cherokee. There should be an inspection plate/cover where > > your > > trans. and torque convertor meet the engine. Pull cover and eyeball > > the > > bolt-heads, they are "ticking" against the flat plate cover after > > enough > > heat expansion takes up the minimal clearance. > > > I don't want to take it to Cottman, if I took it to Meineke , how much > > guys they they will shaft me? sometimes I feel like going out and > > getting a little Honda Civic but something about the Jeep that kept > > pulling me back, like a gf you can't leave. > > > Thanks all! > > > John > > NJ > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com Hi Bill Then how come this only happens when it's really hot out? Thanks, -John |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Aug 26, 11:57 pm, "L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III"
<LWBillHug...@------.net> wrote: > Hi John, > Usually is a motor mount failure, letting the engine fall down on the > front driveshaft and skid plate:http://members.cox.net/douglas.wilson/motormount/or maybe the sway bar > grommets:http://members.cox.net/wilsond/front...way/index.html > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:LW------...@aol.comhttp://www.----------.com/ > > "John" <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:1188179017.739662.283510@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com... > > Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the clanking be happening ALL the time and not only when it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. -Thanks, -John |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Aug 26, 11:57 pm, "L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III"
<LWBillHug...@------.net> wrote: > Hi John, > Usually is a motor mount failure, letting the engine fall down on the > front driveshaft and skid plate:http://members.cox.net/douglas.wilson/motormount/or maybe the sway bar > grommets:http://members.cox.net/wilsond/front...way/index.html > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:LW------...@aol.comhttp://www.----------.com/ > > "John" <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:1188179017.739662.283510@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com... > > Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the clanking be happening ALL the time and not only when it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. -Thanks, -John |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Aug 26, 11:57 pm, "L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III"
<LWBillHug...@------.net> wrote: > Hi John, > Usually is a motor mount failure, letting the engine fall down on the > front driveshaft and skid plate:http://members.cox.net/douglas.wilson/motormount/or maybe the sway bar > grommets:http://members.cox.net/wilsond/front...way/index.html > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:LW------...@aol.comhttp://www.----------.com/ > > "John" <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:1188179017.739662.283510@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com... > > Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the clanking be happening ALL the time and not only when it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. -Thanks, -John |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Aug 26, 11:57 pm, "L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III"
<LWBillHug...@------.net> wrote: > Hi John, > Usually is a motor mount failure, letting the engine fall down on the > front driveshaft and skid plate:http://members.cox.net/douglas.wilson/motormount/or maybe the sway bar > grommets:http://members.cox.net/wilsond/front...way/index.html > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:LW------...@aol.comhttp://www.----------.com/ > > "John" <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:1188179017.739662.283510@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com... > > Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the clanking be happening ALL the time and not only when it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. -Thanks, -John |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
John wrote:
> On Aug 26, 11:57 pm, "L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III" > <LWBillHug...@------.net> wrote: >> Hi John, >> Usually is a motor mount failure, letting the engine fall down on the >> front driveshaft and skid plate:http://members.cox.net/douglas.wilson/motormount/or maybe the sway bar >> grommets:http://members.cox.net/wilsond/front...way/index.html >> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >> mailto:LW------...@aol.comhttp://www.----------.com/ >> >> "John" <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> wrote in message >> >> news:1188179017.739662.283510@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com... >> >> > > Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the > clanking be happening ALL the time and not only when > it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. > > -Thanks, > > -John > The mounts get soft when hot, but.... Because the flywheel bolts were hitting before, that 'really' implies they are loose and backing out to me.... I have seen this happen before, more than once. I have also seen more than one transmission come loose and fall out. I would go back to the same place... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
John wrote:
> On Aug 26, 11:57 pm, "L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III" > <LWBillHug...@------.net> wrote: >> Hi John, >> Usually is a motor mount failure, letting the engine fall down on the >> front driveshaft and skid plate:http://members.cox.net/douglas.wilson/motormount/or maybe the sway bar >> grommets:http://members.cox.net/wilsond/front...way/index.html >> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >> mailto:LW------...@aol.comhttp://www.----------.com/ >> >> "John" <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> wrote in message >> >> news:1188179017.739662.283510@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com... >> >> > > Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the > clanking be happening ALL the time and not only when > it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. > > -Thanks, > > -John > The mounts get soft when hot, but.... Because the flywheel bolts were hitting before, that 'really' implies they are loose and backing out to me.... I have seen this happen before, more than once. I have also seen more than one transmission come loose and fall out. I would go back to the same place... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
John wrote:
> On Aug 26, 11:57 pm, "L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III" > <LWBillHug...@------.net> wrote: >> Hi John, >> Usually is a motor mount failure, letting the engine fall down on the >> front driveshaft and skid plate:http://members.cox.net/douglas.wilson/motormount/or maybe the sway bar >> grommets:http://members.cox.net/wilsond/front...way/index.html >> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >> mailto:LW------...@aol.comhttp://www.----------.com/ >> >> "John" <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> wrote in message >> >> news:1188179017.739662.283510@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com... >> >> > > Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the > clanking be happening ALL the time and not only when > it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. > > -Thanks, > > -John > The mounts get soft when hot, but.... Because the flywheel bolts were hitting before, that 'really' implies they are loose and backing out to me.... I have seen this happen before, more than once. I have also seen more than one transmission come loose and fall out. I would go back to the same place... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
John wrote:
> On Aug 26, 11:57 pm, "L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III" > <LWBillHug...@------.net> wrote: >> Hi John, >> Usually is a motor mount failure, letting the engine fall down on the >> front driveshaft and skid plate:http://members.cox.net/douglas.wilson/motormount/or maybe the sway bar >> grommets:http://members.cox.net/wilsond/front...way/index.html >> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >> mailto:LW------...@aol.comhttp://www.----------.com/ >> >> "John" <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> wrote in message >> >> news:1188179017.739662.283510@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com... >> >> > > Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the > clanking be happening ALL the time and not only when > it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. > > -Thanks, > > -John > The mounts get soft when hot, but.... Because the flywheel bolts were hitting before, that 'really' implies they are loose and backing out to me.... I have seen this happen before, more than once. I have also seen more than one transmission come loose and fall out. I would go back to the same place... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
Re: Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshopper@gmail.com>
wrote: >Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the >clanking be happening ALL the time and not only when >it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and intermittant noises when they fail. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshopper@gmail.com>
wrote: >Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the >clanking be happening ALL the time and not only when >it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and intermittant noises when they fail. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshopper@gmail.com>
wrote: >Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the >clanking be happening ALL the time and not only when >it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and intermittant noises when they fail. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshopper@gmail.com>
wrote: >Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the >clanking be happening ALL the time and not only when >it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and intermittant noises when they fail. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Aug 27, 8:12 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > >Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the > >clankingbe happening ALL the time and not only when > >it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. > > You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad > on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is > very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and > intermittant noises when they fail. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Hi all: I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem and localized it to the transmission. Now the fun begins. I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at least one engine mount that not right. Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it might be my tire or ball bearings. -John Roosevelt, NJ |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Aug 27, 8:12 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > >Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the > >clankingbe happening ALL the time and not only when > >it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. > > You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad > on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is > very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and > intermittant noises when they fail. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Hi all: I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem and localized it to the transmission. Now the fun begins. I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at least one engine mount that not right. Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it might be my tire or ball bearings. -John Roosevelt, NJ |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Aug 27, 8:12 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > >Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the > >clankingbe happening ALL the time and not only when > >it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. > > You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad > on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is > very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and > intermittant noises when they fail. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Hi all: I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem and localized it to the transmission. Now the fun begins. I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at least one engine mount that not right. Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it might be my tire or ball bearings. -John Roosevelt, NJ |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Aug 27, 8:12 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > >Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the > >clankingbe happening ALL the time and not only when > >it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. > > You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad > on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is > very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and > intermittant noises when they fail. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Hi all: I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem and localized it to the transmission. Now the fun begins. I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at least one engine mount that not right. Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it might be my tire or ball bearings. -John Roosevelt, NJ |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
John wrote:
> On Aug 27, 8:12 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote: > >>On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> >>wrote: >> >> >>>Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the >>>clankingbe happening ALL the time and not only when >>>it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. >> >>You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad >>on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is >>very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and >>intermittant noises when they fail. >>----------------- >>TheSnoMan.com > > > Hi all: > > I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem > and localized it to > the transmission. Now the fun begins. > > I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at > least one engine mount > that not right. > > Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it > might be my tire > or ball bearings. > > -John > Roosevelt, NJ > You mean wheel bearings? Interesting that you had a noise, took it to a transmission shop and it turned out to be the transmission. Good thing you didn't take it to an engine shop, those are more expensive! :) Good luck with the repairs and let us know what happens. tw |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
John wrote:
> On Aug 27, 8:12 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote: > >>On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> >>wrote: >> >> >>>Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the >>>clankingbe happening ALL the time and not only when >>>it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. >> >>You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad >>on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is >>very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and >>intermittant noises when they fail. >>----------------- >>TheSnoMan.com > > > Hi all: > > I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem > and localized it to > the transmission. Now the fun begins. > > I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at > least one engine mount > that not right. > > Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it > might be my tire > or ball bearings. > > -John > Roosevelt, NJ > You mean wheel bearings? Interesting that you had a noise, took it to a transmission shop and it turned out to be the transmission. Good thing you didn't take it to an engine shop, those are more expensive! :) Good luck with the repairs and let us know what happens. tw |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
John wrote:
> On Aug 27, 8:12 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote: > >>On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> >>wrote: >> >> >>>Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the >>>clankingbe happening ALL the time and not only when >>>it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. >> >>You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad >>on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is >>very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and >>intermittant noises when they fail. >>----------------- >>TheSnoMan.com > > > Hi all: > > I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem > and localized it to > the transmission. Now the fun begins. > > I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at > least one engine mount > that not right. > > Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it > might be my tire > or ball bearings. > > -John > Roosevelt, NJ > You mean wheel bearings? Interesting that you had a noise, took it to a transmission shop and it turned out to be the transmission. Good thing you didn't take it to an engine shop, those are more expensive! :) Good luck with the repairs and let us know what happens. tw |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
John wrote:
> On Aug 27, 8:12 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote: > >>On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> >>wrote: >> >> >>>Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the >>>clankingbe happening ALL the time and not only when >>>it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. >> >>You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad >>on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is >>very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and >>intermittant noises when they fail. >>----------------- >>TheSnoMan.com > > > Hi all: > > I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem > and localized it to > the transmission. Now the fun begins. > > I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at > least one engine mount > that not right. > > Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it > might be my tire > or ball bearings. > > -John > Roosevelt, NJ > You mean wheel bearings? Interesting that you had a noise, took it to a transmission shop and it turned out to be the transmission. Good thing you didn't take it to an engine shop, those are more expensive! :) Good luck with the repairs and let us know what happens. tw |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Aug 29, 5:25 pm, twaldron <d...@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
> John wrote: > > On Aug 27, 8:12 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote: > > >>On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> > >>wrote: > > >>>Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the > >>>clankingbe happening ALL the time and not only when > >>>it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. > > >>You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad > >>on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is > >>very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and > >>intermittant noises when they fail. > >>----------------- > >>TheSnoMan.com > > > Hi all: > > > I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem > > and localized it to > > the transmission. Now the fun begins. > > > I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at > > least one engine mount > > that not right. > > > Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it > > might be my tire > > or ball bearings. > > > -John > > Roosevelt, NJ > > You mean wheel bearings? Interesting that you had a noise, took it to a > transmission shop and it turned out to be the transmission. Good thing > you didn't take it to an engine shop, those are more expensive! :) > > Good luck with the repairs and let us know what happens. > > tw Well, it wasn't an accident. The noise appeared after I had my transmission rebuilt at Cottmans. It's only logical. :) And yes, wheel bearings. =John |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Aug 29, 5:25 pm, twaldron <d...@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
> John wrote: > > On Aug 27, 8:12 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote: > > >>On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> > >>wrote: > > >>>Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the > >>>clankingbe happening ALL the time and not only when > >>>it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. > > >>You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad > >>on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is > >>very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and > >>intermittant noises when they fail. > >>----------------- > >>TheSnoMan.com > > > Hi all: > > > I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem > > and localized it to > > the transmission. Now the fun begins. > > > I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at > > least one engine mount > > that not right. > > > Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it > > might be my tire > > or ball bearings. > > > -John > > Roosevelt, NJ > > You mean wheel bearings? Interesting that you had a noise, took it to a > transmission shop and it turned out to be the transmission. Good thing > you didn't take it to an engine shop, those are more expensive! :) > > Good luck with the repairs and let us know what happens. > > tw Well, it wasn't an accident. The noise appeared after I had my transmission rebuilt at Cottmans. It's only logical. :) And yes, wheel bearings. =John |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Aug 29, 5:25 pm, twaldron <d...@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
> John wrote: > > On Aug 27, 8:12 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote: > > >>On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> > >>wrote: > > >>>Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the > >>>clankingbe happening ALL the time and not only when > >>>it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. > > >>You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad > >>on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is > >>very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and > >>intermittant noises when they fail. > >>----------------- > >>TheSnoMan.com > > > Hi all: > > > I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem > > and localized it to > > the transmission. Now the fun begins. > > > I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at > > least one engine mount > > that not right. > > > Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it > > might be my tire > > or ball bearings. > > > -John > > Roosevelt, NJ > > You mean wheel bearings? Interesting that you had a noise, took it to a > transmission shop and it turned out to be the transmission. Good thing > you didn't take it to an engine shop, those are more expensive! :) > > Good luck with the repairs and let us know what happens. > > tw Well, it wasn't an accident. The noise appeared after I had my transmission rebuilt at Cottmans. It's only logical. :) And yes, wheel bearings. =John |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
On Aug 29, 5:25 pm, twaldron <d...@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
> John wrote: > > On Aug 27, 8:12 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote: > > >>On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> > >>wrote: > > >>>Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the > >>>clankingbe happening ALL the time and not only when > >>>it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. > > >>You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad > >>on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is > >>very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and > >>intermittant noises when they fail. > >>----------------- > >>TheSnoMan.com > > > Hi all: > > > I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem > > and localized it to > > the transmission. Now the fun begins. > > > I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at > > least one engine mount > > that not right. > > > Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it > > might be my tire > > or ball bearings. > > > -John > > Roosevelt, NJ > > You mean wheel bearings? Interesting that you had a noise, took it to a > transmission shop and it turned out to be the transmission. Good thing > you didn't take it to an engine shop, those are more expensive! :) > > Good luck with the repairs and let us know what happens. > > tw Well, it wasn't an accident. The noise appeared after I had my transmission rebuilt at Cottmans. It's only logical. :) And yes, wheel bearings. =John |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
John wrote:
> On Aug 29, 5:25 pm, twaldron <d...@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote: >> John wrote: >>> On Aug 27, 8:12 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote: >>>> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the >>>>> clankingbe happening ALL the time and not only when >>>>> it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. >>>> You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad >>>> on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is >>>> very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and >>>> intermittant noises when they fail. >>>> ----------------- >>>> TheSnoMan.com >>> Hi all: >>> I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem >>> and localized it to >>> the transmission. Now the fun begins. >>> I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at >>> least one engine mount >>> that not right. >>> Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it >>> might be my tire >>> or ball bearings. >>> -John >>> Roosevelt, NJ >> You mean wheel bearings? Interesting that you had a noise, took it to a >> transmission shop and it turned out to be the transmission. Good thing >> you didn't take it to an engine shop, those are more expensive! :) >> >> Good luck with the repairs and let us know what happens. >> >> tw > > Well, it wasn't an accident. The noise appeared after I had my > transmission rebuilt at Cottmans. It's only logical. :) > > And yes, wheel bearings. > > =John > Make sure your local AAMCO dealer has a good rep. Lots of those places are really bad as far as service goes. Chris |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
John wrote:
> On Aug 29, 5:25 pm, twaldron <d...@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote: >> John wrote: >>> On Aug 27, 8:12 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote: >>>> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the >>>>> clankingbe happening ALL the time and not only when >>>>> it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. >>>> You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad >>>> on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is >>>> very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and >>>> intermittant noises when they fail. >>>> ----------------- >>>> TheSnoMan.com >>> Hi all: >>> I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem >>> and localized it to >>> the transmission. Now the fun begins. >>> I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at >>> least one engine mount >>> that not right. >>> Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it >>> might be my tire >>> or ball bearings. >>> -John >>> Roosevelt, NJ >> You mean wheel bearings? Interesting that you had a noise, took it to a >> transmission shop and it turned out to be the transmission. Good thing >> you didn't take it to an engine shop, those are more expensive! :) >> >> Good luck with the repairs and let us know what happens. >> >> tw > > Well, it wasn't an accident. The noise appeared after I had my > transmission rebuilt at Cottmans. It's only logical. :) > > And yes, wheel bearings. > > =John > Make sure your local AAMCO dealer has a good rep. Lots of those places are really bad as far as service goes. Chris |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
John wrote:
> On Aug 29, 5:25 pm, twaldron <d...@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote: >> John wrote: >>> On Aug 27, 8:12 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote: >>>> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the >>>>> clankingbe happening ALL the time and not only when >>>>> it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. >>>> You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad >>>> on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is >>>> very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and >>>> intermittant noises when they fail. >>>> ----------------- >>>> TheSnoMan.com >>> Hi all: >>> I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem >>> and localized it to >>> the transmission. Now the fun begins. >>> I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at >>> least one engine mount >>> that not right. >>> Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it >>> might be my tire >>> or ball bearings. >>> -John >>> Roosevelt, NJ >> You mean wheel bearings? Interesting that you had a noise, took it to a >> transmission shop and it turned out to be the transmission. Good thing >> you didn't take it to an engine shop, those are more expensive! :) >> >> Good luck with the repairs and let us know what happens. >> >> tw > > Well, it wasn't an accident. The noise appeared after I had my > transmission rebuilt at Cottmans. It's only logical. :) > > And yes, wheel bearings. > > =John > Make sure your local AAMCO dealer has a good rep. Lots of those places are really bad as far as service goes. Chris |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
John wrote:
> On Aug 29, 5:25 pm, twaldron <d...@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote: >> John wrote: >>> On Aug 27, 8:12 pm, SnoMan <ad...@snoman.com> wrote: >>>> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:32:22 -0700, John <lilgrasshop...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Another point, if it were the engine mounts not working, wouldn't the >>>>> clankingbe happening ALL the time and not only when >>>>> it's hot out? just asking before I take it to the shop. >>>> You could have a one way roller clutch in torque converter going bad >>>> on one of its stators which is only noisy when it get hot anf fluid is >>>> very thin. Torque converters can make some very strange and >>>> intermittant noises when they fail. >>>> ----------------- >>>> TheSnoMan.com >>> Hi all: >>> I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem >>> and localized it to >>> the transmission. Now the fun begins. >>> I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at >>> least one engine mount >>> that not right. >>> Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it >>> might be my tire >>> or ball bearings. >>> -John >>> Roosevelt, NJ >> You mean wheel bearings? Interesting that you had a noise, took it to a >> transmission shop and it turned out to be the transmission. Good thing >> you didn't take it to an engine shop, those are more expensive! :) >> >> Good luck with the repairs and let us know what happens. >> >> tw > > Well, it wasn't an accident. The noise appeared after I had my > transmission rebuilt at Cottmans. It's only logical. :) > > And yes, wheel bearings. > > =John > Make sure your local AAMCO dealer has a good rep. Lots of those places are really bad as far as service goes. Chris |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
John wrote:
> > Hi all: > > I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem > and localized it to > the transmission. Now the fun begins. > > I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at > least one engine mount > that not right. > > Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it > might be my tire > or ball bearings. > > -John > Roosevelt, NJ > I would have gone back to the shop that put it in. They fixed the noise before right? If it was an easy fix, then it is just a bolt backing out tagging the inspection cover. That means they either didn't torque it right or forgot some loctite where needed. You are looking to get suckered into another rebuild in my mind... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
John wrote:
> > Hi all: > > I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem > and localized it to > the transmission. Now the fun begins. > > I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at > least one engine mount > that not right. > > Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it > might be my tire > or ball bearings. > > -John > Roosevelt, NJ > I would have gone back to the shop that put it in. They fixed the noise before right? If it was an easy fix, then it is just a bolt backing out tagging the inspection cover. That means they either didn't torque it right or forgot some loctite where needed. You are looking to get suckered into another rebuild in my mind... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
Re: Clanking Sound Came Back
John wrote:
> > Hi all: > > I took the Jeep to AAMCO and they were able to replicate the problem > and localized it to > the transmission. Now the fun begins. > > I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, he did say that there was at > least one engine mount > that not right. > > Also, the car was making loud noise at speed 50 mph plus, he said it > might be my tire > or ball bearings. > > -John > Roosevelt, NJ > I would have gone back to the shop that put it in. They fixed the noise before right? If it was an easy fix, then it is just a bolt backing out tagging the inspection cover. That means they either didn't torque it right or forgot some loctite where needed. You are looking to get suckered into another rebuild in my mind... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
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