Re: Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

Tell you what you keep following MIke Trollmains tips here and he will
really have you chasing your tail ad draining your bank account. This
can be fixed with very little money if you do it right. You have too
much carb and too much fuel pressure and it is going over rich when
carb starts to get in its effective flow range. The plug issues are
only a result of this, not the cause but some like guy listed above
act like they know more than they really do. It is your nickle and
your timebut if it was mine it would be fixed in very short order
because I am 99% sure on what is wrong here as all the clues do add
up. (unlike your "helper" mentioned above here that is about 99% wrong
on this)

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:13:02 -0700, matthew.nye@gmail.com wrote:

>I have another question if anyone is familiar with AMC engines. If
>the distributor & oil pump gears were removed at the same time, does
>it matter which way they go back in? I assume you can only be 180
>degrees off, but the oil pump drive gear has turned relative to where
>it was when the distributor was removed, which in turn means that the
>distributor's actual drive gear will be in a different spot from when
>it was removed (if that makes any sense). Does this matter, or is
>irrelevant other than deciding the initial position of the distributor
>& cap? I assume that it wont matter, & can just be corrected by
>moving the distributor whichever way is required to get the timing
>back on track after the distributor is dropped back in, but it was one
>more thing that I remember doing after I had my symptoms show up,
>which may have been present merely from the bad vacuum advance. I'm
>just afraid I may have caused more problems by doing this.
>
>I ordered a new carb & will pick up some new plugs to rule that out
>hopefully tomorrow. My timing light is just a basic light with no
>dials & I don't have access to anything else unfortunately. It's very
>hard to see the mark on the balancer after I get about 25 degrees
>advance with my current light. I think I may take a stab at looking
>to the timing chain too if the new carb & plugs don't make a
>difference unless you guys definitely do not think it's the chain. If
>the answer to my previous question about the distributor & oil pump
>drive gears is yes, how would I go about putting it back in
>correctly? I assume I put the engine at TDC on the compression stroke
>for cylinder 1, then make sure the cam & crank sprocket indicators
>line up vertically, but is there any specific way the distributor will
>need to go in relative to the oil pump drive gear or the cam shaft?
>It seems as if there should be some kind of line or marking on the
>distributor telling you which way it needs to be dropped in if that's
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

SnoMan wrote:
> Tell you what you keep following MIke Trollmains tips here and he will
> really have you chasing your tail ad draining your bank account. This
> can be fixed with very little money if you do it right. You have too
> much carb and too much fuel pressure and it is going over rich when
> carb starts to get in its effective flow range. The plug issues are
> only a result of this, not the cause but some like guy listed above
> act like they know more than they really do. It is your nickle and
> your timebut if it was mine it would be fixed in very short order
> because I am 99% sure on what is wrong here as all the clues do add
> up. (unlike your "helper" mentioned above here that is about 99% wrong
> on this)
>
> TheSnoMan.com

I guess Holley doesn't know anything about carbs either, since they
recommend a 570 CFM carb for that combination, using their online carb
selector.

Also, you might want to look at http://www.holley.com/8011.asp which is
a manifold for Ford 302 engine and look at what carb Holley recommends
for that. Yeah, 570 or 600 CFM.

I have personally set up several 302 Fords and 318 Dodges with Holley
600 carbs, and they work great.

The other thing you are wrong about is that too big of a carb does NOT
go rich when it gets to its flow range, unless the power circuit
activates. A carburetor is a dumb piece of metal, and doesn't know how
fast the engine it is mounted to is spinning. It is calibrated to meter
a specific amount of fuel to a specific amount of air. The reason a big
carb does not work on a small low RPM engine is because it takes a
higher air flow to start the fuel flowing through the main jets. This is
because the bigger throttle bore and venturi do not create as much of a
pressure drop as a small throttle bore and venturi. Imagine putting a
very small hole in the side of a straw, and sucking through the straw,
then do the same thing with a piece of garden hose. The air speed
through the garden hose is much slower, and it does not create as much
of a suction through the small hole. This is not the "exact" way a
venturi works, but it is similar.

What usually happens on a carb that is too big for an engine is that
when the throttle is pressed, the accelerator pump dumps too much fuel,
and eventually that fuel passes through the engine. What happens then it
the engine goes lean because it is getting all the air it needs, but the
airflow is not creating enough of a pressure drop across the venturi to
start the main circuits flowing.

Holley vacuum secondary carbs are quite forgiving as far as sizing, and
you can over carburate somewhat without any problems. I'm not saying you
can hang a 900 CFM vacuum carb on a 304 or 318 that is relatively stock
and have it work, but a 600 is definitely doable.

By the way, you should probably invest $16 in this book
http://www.holley.com/Store/product.asp?ID=36-73 so you understand how a
carburetor works. Most of what I typed here is basically in that book,
although I do have an older version that doesn't cover fuel injection.

Chris

Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

SnoMan wrote:
> Tell you what you keep following MIke Trollmains tips here and he will
> really have you chasing your tail ad draining your bank account. This
> can be fixed with very little money if you do it right. You have too
> much carb and too much fuel pressure and it is going over rich when
> carb starts to get in its effective flow range. The plug issues are
> only a result of this, not the cause but some like guy listed above
> act like they know more than they really do. It is your nickle and
> your timebut if it was mine it would be fixed in very short order
> because I am 99% sure on what is wrong here as all the clues do add
> up. (unlike your "helper" mentioned above here that is about 99% wrong
> on this)
>
> TheSnoMan.com

I guess Holley doesn't know anything about carbs either, since they
recommend a 570 CFM carb for that combination, using their online carb
selector.

Also, you might want to look at http://www.holley.com/8011.asp which is
a manifold for Ford 302 engine and look at what carb Holley recommends
for that. Yeah, 570 or 600 CFM.

I have personally set up several 302 Fords and 318 Dodges with Holley
600 carbs, and they work great.

The other thing you are wrong about is that too big of a carb does NOT
go rich when it gets to its flow range, unless the power circuit
activates. A carburetor is a dumb piece of metal, and doesn't know how
fast the engine it is mounted to is spinning. It is calibrated to meter
a specific amount of fuel to a specific amount of air. The reason a big
carb does not work on a small low RPM engine is because it takes a
higher air flow to start the fuel flowing through the main jets. This is
because the bigger throttle bore and venturi do not create as much of a
pressure drop as a small throttle bore and venturi. Imagine putting a
very small hole in the side of a straw, and sucking through the straw,
then do the same thing with a piece of garden hose. The air speed
through the garden hose is much slower, and it does not create as much
of a suction through the small hole. This is not the "exact" way a
venturi works, but it is similar.

What usually happens on a carb that is too big for an engine is that
when the throttle is pressed, the accelerator pump dumps too much fuel,
and eventually that fuel passes through the engine. What happens then it
the engine goes lean because it is getting all the air it needs, but the
airflow is not creating enough of a pressure drop across the venturi to
start the main circuits flowing.

Holley vacuum secondary carbs are quite forgiving as far as sizing, and
you can over carburate somewhat without any problems. I'm not saying you
can hang a 900 CFM vacuum carb on a 304 or 318 that is relatively stock
and have it work, but a 600 is definitely doable.

By the way, you should probably invest $16 in this book
http://www.holley.com/Store/product.asp?ID=36-73 so you understand how a
carburetor works. Most of what I typed here is basically in that book,
although I do have an older version that doesn't cover fuel injection.

Chris

Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

SnoMan wrote:
> Tell you what you keep following MIke Trollmains tips here and he will
> really have you chasing your tail ad draining your bank account. This
> can be fixed with very little money if you do it right. You have too
> much carb and too much fuel pressure and it is going over rich when
> carb starts to get in its effective flow range. The plug issues are
> only a result of this, not the cause but some like guy listed above
> act like they know more than they really do. It is your nickle and
> your timebut if it was mine it would be fixed in very short order
> because I am 99% sure on what is wrong here as all the clues do add
> up. (unlike your "helper" mentioned above here that is about 99% wrong
> on this)
>
> TheSnoMan.com

I guess Holley doesn't know anything about carbs either, since they
recommend a 570 CFM carb for that combination, using their online carb
selector.

Also, you might want to look at http://www.holley.com/8011.asp which is
a manifold for Ford 302 engine and look at what carb Holley recommends
for that. Yeah, 570 or 600 CFM.

I have personally set up several 302 Fords and 318 Dodges with Holley
600 carbs, and they work great.

The other thing you are wrong about is that too big of a carb does NOT
go rich when it gets to its flow range, unless the power circuit
activates. A carburetor is a dumb piece of metal, and doesn't know how
fast the engine it is mounted to is spinning. It is calibrated to meter
a specific amount of fuel to a specific amount of air. The reason a big
carb does not work on a small low RPM engine is because it takes a
higher air flow to start the fuel flowing through the main jets. This is
because the bigger throttle bore and venturi do not create as much of a
pressure drop as a small throttle bore and venturi. Imagine putting a
very small hole in the side of a straw, and sucking through the straw,
then do the same thing with a piece of garden hose. The air speed
through the garden hose is much slower, and it does not create as much
of a suction through the small hole. This is not the "exact" way a
venturi works, but it is similar.

What usually happens on a carb that is too big for an engine is that
when the throttle is pressed, the accelerator pump dumps too much fuel,
and eventually that fuel passes through the engine. What happens then it
the engine goes lean because it is getting all the air it needs, but the
airflow is not creating enough of a pressure drop across the venturi to
start the main circuits flowing.

Holley vacuum secondary carbs are quite forgiving as far as sizing, and
you can over carburate somewhat without any problems. I'm not saying you
can hang a 900 CFM vacuum carb on a 304 or 318 that is relatively stock
and have it work, but a 600 is definitely doable.

By the way, you should probably invest $16 in this book
http://www.holley.com/Store/product.asp?ID=36-73 so you understand how a
carburetor works. Most of what I typed here is basically in that book,
although I do have an older version that doesn't cover fuel injection.

Chris

Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

SnoMan wrote:
> Tell you what you keep following MIke Trollmains tips here and he will
> really have you chasing your tail ad draining your bank account. This
> can be fixed with very little money if you do it right. You have too
> much carb and too much fuel pressure and it is going over rich when
> carb starts to get in its effective flow range. The plug issues are
> only a result of this, not the cause but some like guy listed above
> act like they know more than they really do. It is your nickle and
> your timebut if it was mine it would be fixed in very short order
> because I am 99% sure on what is wrong here as all the clues do add
> up. (unlike your "helper" mentioned above here that is about 99% wrong
> on this)
>
> TheSnoMan.com

I guess Holley doesn't know anything about carbs either, since they
recommend a 570 CFM carb for that combination, using their online carb
selector.

Also, you might want to look at http://www.holley.com/8011.asp which is
a manifold for Ford 302 engine and look at what carb Holley recommends
for that. Yeah, 570 or 600 CFM.

I have personally set up several 302 Fords and 318 Dodges with Holley
600 carbs, and they work great.

The other thing you are wrong about is that too big of a carb does NOT
go rich when it gets to its flow range, unless the power circuit
activates. A carburetor is a dumb piece of metal, and doesn't know how
fast the engine it is mounted to is spinning. It is calibrated to meter
a specific amount of fuel to a specific amount of air. The reason a big
carb does not work on a small low RPM engine is because it takes a
higher air flow to start the fuel flowing through the main jets. This is
because the bigger throttle bore and venturi do not create as much of a
pressure drop as a small throttle bore and venturi. Imagine putting a
very small hole in the side of a straw, and sucking through the straw,
then do the same thing with a piece of garden hose. The air speed
through the garden hose is much slower, and it does not create as much
of a suction through the small hole. This is not the "exact" way a
venturi works, but it is similar.

What usually happens on a carb that is too big for an engine is that
when the throttle is pressed, the accelerator pump dumps too much fuel,
and eventually that fuel passes through the engine. What happens then it
the engine goes lean because it is getting all the air it needs, but the
airflow is not creating enough of a pressure drop across the venturi to
start the main circuits flowing.

Holley vacuum secondary carbs are quite forgiving as far as sizing, and
you can over carburate somewhat without any problems. I'm not saying you
can hang a 900 CFM vacuum carb on a 304 or 318 that is relatively stock
and have it work, but a 600 is definitely doable.

By the way, you should probably invest $16 in this book
http://www.holley.com/Store/product.asp?ID=36-73 so you understand how a
carburetor works. Most of what I typed here is basically in that book,
although I do have an older version that doesn't cover fuel injection.

Chris

Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

Ditto. The only thing I've seen them work OK in are the old VW Bugs.
Where America plugs seemed to pull the heli-coils, unless you held your
mouth just right.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/


"Old Crow" <walliscrow@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dr3p93tc2a9jm9o1ccka6eq8o4pcqd1t0c@4ax.com...
>
> Gotta agree with you here, Mike. I've fixed many a misfire by
> ditching the Bosch plugs. Not just in Jeeps, either, my '61 F-100
> didn't like them, and neither did my bud's Harley.
> --
> Old Crow "Yol Bolsun!"
> '82 FLTC-P "Miss Pearl"
> '95 YJ Rio Grande
> BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, MAMBM



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

Ditto. The only thing I've seen them work OK in are the old VW Bugs.
Where America plugs seemed to pull the heli-coils, unless you held your
mouth just right.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/


"Old Crow" <walliscrow@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dr3p93tc2a9jm9o1ccka6eq8o4pcqd1t0c@4ax.com...
>
> Gotta agree with you here, Mike. I've fixed many a misfire by
> ditching the Bosch plugs. Not just in Jeeps, either, my '61 F-100
> didn't like them, and neither did my bud's Harley.
> --
> Old Crow "Yol Bolsun!"
> '82 FLTC-P "Miss Pearl"
> '95 YJ Rio Grande
> BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, MAMBM



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

Ditto. The only thing I've seen them work OK in are the old VW Bugs.
Where America plugs seemed to pull the heli-coils, unless you held your
mouth just right.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/


"Old Crow" <walliscrow@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dr3p93tc2a9jm9o1ccka6eq8o4pcqd1t0c@4ax.com...
>
> Gotta agree with you here, Mike. I've fixed many a misfire by
> ditching the Bosch plugs. Not just in Jeeps, either, my '61 F-100
> didn't like them, and neither did my bud's Harley.
> --
> Old Crow "Yol Bolsun!"
> '82 FLTC-P "Miss Pearl"
> '95 YJ Rio Grande
> BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, MAMBM



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

Ditto. The only thing I've seen them work OK in are the old VW Bugs.
Where America plugs seemed to pull the heli-coils, unless you held your
mouth just right.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/


"Old Crow" <walliscrow@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dr3p93tc2a9jm9o1ccka6eq8o4pcqd1t0c@4ax.com...
>
> Gotta agree with you here, Mike. I've fixed many a misfire by
> ditching the Bosch plugs. Not just in Jeeps, either, my '61 F-100
> didn't like them, and neither did my bud's Harley.
> --
> Old Crow "Yol Bolsun!"
> '82 FLTC-P "Miss Pearl"
> '95 YJ Rio Grande
> BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, MAMBM



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

I think you should buy a mechanic's repair manual.
I start by plugging number one spark plug hole with my finger. Then
clicking a remote starter button or a friend hitting the starter via the
ignition until I feel the compression leak by my finger then very quick
starts, until the timing marks line up on the front balancer pulley. Usually
the distributor cap has a number one marked on it, or use the manual's
picture as to where the rotor will point when it's dropped in. Start the
distributor in one notch counter clock wise, then slide it in and if it
looks will right, spin the engine so it will drop into the oil pump's drive
notch.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/


<matthew.nye@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184631182.087688.204070@n2g2000hse.googlegro ups.com...
> I have another question if anyone is familiar with AMC engines. If
> the distributor & oil pump gears were removed at the same time, does
> it matter which way they go back in? I assume you can only be 180
> degrees off, but the oil pump drive gear has turned relative to where
> it was when the distributor was removed, which in turn means that the
> distributor's actual drive gear will be in a different spot from when
> it was removed (if that makes any sense). Does this matter, or is
> irrelevant other than deciding the initial position of the distributor
> & cap? I assume that it wont matter, & can just be corrected by
> moving the distributor whichever way is required to get the timing
> back on track after the distributor is dropped back in, but it was one
> more thing that I remember doing after I had my symptoms show up,
> which may have been present merely from the bad vacuum advance. I'm
> just afraid I may have caused more problems by doing this.
>
> I ordered a new carb & will pick up some new plugs to rule that out
> hopefully tomorrow. My timing light is just a basic light with no
> dials & I don't have access to anything else unfortunately. It's very
> hard to see the mark on the balancer after I get about 25 degrees
> advance with my current light. I think I may take a stab at looking
> to the timing chain too if the new carb & plugs don't make a
> difference unless you guys definitely do not think it's the chain. If
> the answer to my previous question about the distributor & oil pump
> drive gears is yes, how would I go about putting it back in
> correctly? I assume I put the engine at TDC on the compression stroke
> for cylinder 1, then make sure the cam & crank sprocket indicators
> line up vertically, but is there any specific way the distributor will
> need to go in relative to the oil pump drive gear or the cam shaft?
> It seems as if there should be some kind of line or marking on the
> distributor telling you which way it needs to be dropped in if that's
> the case.
>
> Thanks again for everyones help, it's greatly appreciated.
>
> -Matt
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com